Before people defend the OP, remember you this:  Even Trion advertised "You aren't in Azeroth Anymore!" as one of their most infamous slogans.  After a ton of trash talk about the instanced BGs and the treadmill grinds for gear - that slogan conveniently - disappeared.

 

 

 

Now they advertise 'join our Horde'

Wow had 6 starts zones to start....6 tracks that went to 5 leveling routes....Rift did 2 that went to....2 routes.

Originally posted by xxantiheroxx

Originally posted by Wicoa

Originally posted by liquescent

Originally posted by maniacfox

My only real gripe with Rift is the lack of content variety. The levelling path is the same for all races and classes on each faction, as someone that loves levelling alts this is disappointing.

Long live SWTOR!

 I agree 100%

You have to do the exact same quests. That makes it very boring to me.

 

And you foolishly think swtor will be different?

 

Actually, yes it will be. Each class has their own, unique story. There is also two starting planets per faction, making four starting areas in total. Add in the fact that each story has you making choices that will affect your stories in different ways.

 

Meaning you could play through a class story as a darkside character, then play through it again as a lightside character and have completely different events transpire simply because your actions were different. Making it a different experience even though you're playing the same class and story.

 

So, yeah, I'd say it's a bit different. :p

This is how people 'think' it is going to be, let's see how it will be when the game actually launches.

Imagine if for every time you have a class quest, you have to do 6 other side quests, that is precicely the same for each faction. Then I think it would be very boring to create a new character.

Imagine the starting planet is just the first 2-3 hours? Will it really make such a difference then?

Imagine if..swtor is not able to cure cancer, save the world and brew coffee?

Let us see what we get when we get it :)

YOU MISSED THE WHOLE POINT!

A WoW clone is a "non complimentry term used whenever a game uses a large amount of the "same old same old" that WoW created in order to keep players playing. Its a gimmick, and unlike EQ and UO which came out before WoW, used no such gimmick.

The gimmicks such as TOKENS! GRINDING FOR FREAKING TOKENS is a WoW innovation that almost  every MMO since has copied, thus making them WoW clones.

Then after you grind for said tokens, and get your gear, they release a new season of gear to grind for and then allow the previous seasons gear to be available in vendor stores to buy fro money or lower tokens.

Also, grinding the same dungeons over and over makes a WoW clone.

And locking out players from Raids is a WoW innovation...basically any gimmick that gets you to play anad pay more is a WoW innovation and makes for a WoW Clone.

INSTEAD of trying to keep players subscribing by creating a fun, challenging, non repetitive, non boring game that holds your interest.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Clywd

I think you are wrong on that - Blizzard did not examine the market, they hired some eq1-raiders and let them design the raids. The quest-chains have been implemented by accident during the last stages of beta. Blizz added to that a single player GAME (they really know how to create games, kudos), but they decided not to add a WORLD (see http://www.wolfsheadonline.com/?p=5610#764fa). That concept was sadly successful, mostly driven by the IP, the name "Blizzard" and a big marketing budget.

There is a lot more to wow when it released than just raids and I'm pretty sure the thousands of quests were pretty well established long before the last stages of beta. 

If it was as easy as hiring a few players to design content and slap together some last minute ideas then every game would be a major success.  I think your view is a bit over simplified and Blizzards approach of A) make it fun and B) release when ready payed off where so many other games have failed.  The result was a game that was similar in nature to games before it, but at the same time so different it blew the wide open. 

Actually it is that easy, hire 10 guys from this forum and let them create a concept, implement it and add some graphical gimmicks. What do you think what made the big hits in the industry outstanding? They have all been created by players, not by business men!

Eq, Lineage, WoW, DaoC, UO etc - they all had lead designers with no idea about time to market or return on investment, but they knew what is fun.

The games a  wow clone , what else can be said...

I think it's a wow clone, that is better than the actual game itself tho, so that is a positive for I suppose...

[Mod Edit]

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

No idea what your trying to say, but ok.  Class system is nothing like rifts and is no comparison at all. 

WoW has 9 classes with 3 tree's each limiting how much is customizable. 

Rift has 4 classes with 9 tree's each increasing customization exponentially. 

Not only is it about  how many roles each class can fill but how they can fill them. You can litterally play how you want to play. 

As far as whats expected from each class.... well you have people from WoW that expect a healer to heal, rouge to DD but experienced players know better lol. Clerics can top damage charts, Bards and mages can top healing charts,etc. 

Every class in Rift can fill a minimum of 3 roles well. Rouges can fill 4. Support, Tank, DD and Healer. Not only that but they can do it in numerous ways. Your tank spec won't be like mine. My healing spec won't be like yours. 

 

Actually the class sytems are nearly identical.  The only difference is WoW you are given a static three trees, but in Rift you are given a choice of 8 for your three trees.  Yes, you have greater flexibility in Rift to an extent, but that flexibility comes at a price:  people are expected to perform roles they dont like to, and a lot of the souls themselves arent very well developed or different from enough from the others.

 

 

Cut off here as this is all I read. The only similarities are the aesthetics in how the skills are shown to the player. Beyond that it's as similar to WoW's class system as it is any others. 

Give me some specifics on what you mean because beyond the fact that rouges have stealth and that kind of stuff which is common among all MMO's the only other similarity is how it is presented. 

And no, it's not expected to perform certain roles. Thats something that you only get from the new players comming from games like WoW. Those that make it to later levels wise up fast especially when they just had half there life bar taken off by one melee hit from a cleric. 

Yes the expectations are there in the begining with the new players, but that kind of attitude doesn't seem to exist beyond 30 or so when players actually start to learn the game. 

As I said I stopped reading here. Since this part was so far off base I didn't see any benefit in reading the rest. 

Now you wouldn't get much of an argument from me calling most of the other portions of the game a WoW clone as you would have a point on most of it lol. This just happens to be one area they wen't a fairly original route. Play the game and find out for yourself as it seems you are mainly going off of what you heard. No one that has played could be this way off in there info. 

Originally posted by UnleadedRev

 

The gimmicks such as TOKENS! GRINDING FOR FREAKING TOKENS is a WoW innovation that almost  every MMO since has copied, thus making them WoW clones.

 

Also, grinding the same dungeons over and over makes a WoW clone.

And locking out players from Raids is a WoW innovation...basically any gimmick that gets you to play anad pay more is a WoW innovation and makes for a WoW Clone.

 

 

The dungeon token system is most definitely NOT a WoW innovation, Everquest had it before WoW even launched (LDoN).  However, the EQ dungeons were somewhat randomized and you could choose different objectives.  thank there were something like 40 different layouts for those LDoNs, and the goal was in different places during different runthroughs.  WoW didnt adopt this until a few years after it was out and didnt fully embrace it until about a year and a half ago.

EQ had their own form of raid lockouts: spawn timers shared through the server.

And all games want you to play and pay more.  AAs for instance, not to mention slow leveling curve.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Cut off here as this is all I read. The only similarities are the aesthetics in how the skills are shown to the player. Beyond that it's as similar to WoW's class system as it is any others. 

Give me some specifics on what you mean because beyond the fact that rouges have stealth and that kind of stuff which is common among all MMO's the only other similarity is how it is presented. 

 

I mean this.  When you ding, you assign a skill point to one of three trees.  Also, every 2 levels you ahve to go upgrade your old abilities (which WoW had for 6 years until removed with Cata).  The ONLY difference is you get a greater selection of trees to choose from, but tis still just three trees.  The trees are even structured similarly to WoWs.

 

Now other games?  In EQ/EQ2 you level and assign AAs at your own pace.  LOTRO you customize your skills and stats via the trait system.  Runes of Magic has a real multi class sytem wher epicking certain combinations unlock unique skills to that combo.

 

DAoC used a three tree system but it was completely different  then what WoW and Rift use, which is again identical only except the fact that you choose 3 trees out of 8.

And no, it's not expected to perform certain roles. Thats something that you only get from the new players comming from games like WoW. Those that make it to later levels wise up fast especially when they just had half there life bar taken off by one melee hit from a cleric. 

 

Yes the expectations are there in the begining with the new players, but that kind of attitude doesn't seem to exist beyond 30 or so when players actually start to learn the game. 

 

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?155861-Do-you-have-a-responsibility-to-fill-multiple-roles

As I said I stopped reading here. Since this part was so far off base I didn't see any benefit in reading the rest. 

 

Now you wouldn't get much of an argument from me calling most of the other portions of the game a WoW clone as you would have a point on most of it lol. This just happens to be one area they wen't a fairly original route. Play the game and find out for yourself as it seems you are mainly going off of what you heard. No one that has played could be this way off in there info. 

I played for a month and a half.  It was before the dungeon finder was introduced so maybe that changed things.  I saw people got kicked for not having a bard or chloro off spec, more than once despite being taken as a dps.  I was the tank so I never had to worry about being flexible.

 

This game is done. I played it for exactly 24 days (I had more days on account and still did not play). The problem with a Wow clone is the fact that Wow is already long in the tooth; this game was doomed before I played it and I should have known better:/

Originally posted by Lasterba
The problem with Rift is that there is absolutely no challenge whatsoever. It is one of those games that you press 1,2,3 to max level...with your eyes closed.

I soloed to 50 in less than a month and NEVER DIED. The game is to easy. Aside from that the content is nothing but different colored rifts. This game is for mmo newbies.

If you want a real mmo experience play Vanguard.

I dunno, I died plenty of times due to the annoyingly dense population of mobs packed into Rift's tiny gameworld and the fact that my character could barely take on more than two enemies at a time.  I died more times in Rift than I ever did in WoW or even EQ2.

are you joking? Rift is indeed a wow clone. 

The author did not touch on the subject of the "WoW clone" (or any othe clone) at all.

The key questions here is "What defines the MMORPG genre?" and "How many points of congruency does it take before you say Game A is very similar to Game B?"

The MMORPG genre has pretty much been defined by the Three Pillars, Exploration, Combat, and Character Development.  You can argue this point if you like, but when you see the variety that has been historically possible I think you'd bee a fool to try to narrow it down beyond that.  Look at UO (the first MMO, we're not going back to MUDs here), compare it to its successors EQ and WoW, as well as to radically different MMORPGs such as EVE Online, CoH, SWG, and I going to go out on a limb here and add GW (although, stricly speaking, it's not an MMO).

Next, let's take a look at the similarities betwen Rift and WoW (just to keep it simple).  You can do other games for yourself.

Both games have a trinity based teaming mechanic, 3 vertical tiered skill trees (requiring 5 skill points in the current tier before spending skill points in the next tier), and are gear-centric with gear dropped from raids for end game character progression.

I don't really see enough difference in the core style of game play (despite some innovative changes in Rift) to interest me if I don't want to play WoW.

i played rift for about 2 months. within 5 days gametime i was at max lvl, and i was not effective at all. level cap have been hit in 2 days as far as i know. then i had about a month worth of content which mainly consists of grinding alot of mobs and stuff from mobs.

if its a wow clone its a small clone. not that these themepark games are my kind of game anyways. but it was just a big grind, thats all. give me a sandbox game instead of this. crafting is a direct copy from wow it seems, and thats not a good thing.

this game is just another simplified game. im just wondering when its gonna go f2p, and when they are gonna introduce a cash shop for people to buy vanity and/or actual useful items.

and this thing with everyone being able to have any build within their class is a complete deal breaker for me. i think that people should have their fixed class and do the best they can with that raither than the fact that you can just switch classes at any time when raiding or farming or whatever.

Originally posted by sumo0

i played rift for about 2 months. within 5 days gametime i was at max lvl, and i was not effective at all. level cap have been hit in 2 days as far as i know. then i had about a month worth of content which mainly consists of grinding alot of mobs and stuff from mobs.

 

 

Lets put it in these terms:

In Vanilla WoW, which at the time was considered a fast leveling game, the fastest to max level was over 4 days.  This was after 18+ months of research, and addons to help quest faster and pre planning routes.

People leveled to Max in Rift in half that time as soon as the servers opened.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by sumo0

i played rift for about 2 months. within 5 days gametime i was at max lvl, and i was not effective at all. level cap have been hit in 2 days as far as i know. then i had about a month worth of content which mainly consists of grinding alot of mobs and stuff from mobs.

 

 

Lets put it in these terms:

 

In Vanilla WoW, which at the time was considered a fast leveling game, the fastest to max level was over 4 days.  This was after 18+ months of research, and addons to help quest faster and pre planning routes.

 

People leveled to Max in Rift in half that time as soon as the servers opened.

 Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!

While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.

Originally posted by JeroKane

 Not to mention that both Vanilla WoW and Everquest 2 had superior amount of content compared to RIFT. Not to mention different starter zones to level up in and so had immediately longetivity ingame due to making leveling up ALT's worthwile and fun!

While RIFT is a polished decent game, it just suffers due to the lack of content and having only one leveling path, making ALTing a borefest, as you end up doing the exact same thing.

 

Rift seems like it was so concerned with its polish it forgot to add depth to its world.  Not only is it faster and smaller, it just feels like its rushing you to max level.

WoW and EQ2 both have wonderful games on their way up.  People in both games roll alts to see what they missed, or to experience again some of the highlights.  The only real highlights in Rift are the rifts and dungeons, both of which you do at level 50 anyway.

No, the rest of your leveling is spent being sent to an area full of ridiculously dense mobs for two types of drops.  Then you wade back through the pack of dense mobs unrelated to your quest to get back to quest giver.  Then quest giver sends you back for two new types of items...from the same mobs...sooo its back through the dense mobs to get to the dense mobs.  Only to be sent there a third time.  I remember going through gloamwood and thinking you couldnt pay me to redo these quests again at that keep.  

The quest lines are (mostly) boring and tedious, the zones are boring.  Not only is there a lack of content, but whats there is (mostly) uninspiring.  And this is most likely why Rift is faltering a bit now.  Its subs are in decline despite it being a new game with regular updates in a stagnant marketplace.

 sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.

 This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.

 Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.

 Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.

 Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.

Originally posted by Roccprofit

 sadly there will always be people that just have to bring the negaativity. Why? dunno, bad parents? bad life experince? who knows.

 This is all the "wow clone" whiners do, my theory is that they enjoy being negative and I liken 99% of them to trolls that go in just to stir things up because they like the drama that ensues.

 Notice most people that want to cry wow clone are mostly wow fanboys and they rarely make a valid point. The rest of them are people who just go around insulting things because they have nothing better to do.It is more like sniping remarks meant to get people worked up and sadly it seems to work as most people get all stired up about it.

 Where I grew up we were taught to ignore the whiners because they were not worth your time, no matter how logical and valid of a point you make they will just find something else to whine about and it is a worthless pursuit to try to explain to anything to them or even to ask them to make a valid point.

 Ignore them is the best advice, like the kid in grade school that did not hurt anyone but, always tried to start crap, this is the next version. not worth anyones time.

 Calling every critic a WoW fanboi, makes you look like a Rift fanboi and rather short sighted and hypocritical!

Just saying.