Originally posted by xpiher

 

I already mentioned that. Its the IP, which was barrowed heavily from Warhammer and Tolkien. Its not new. If the harry potter mmo that was being developed by the guys that made UO were able to launch it before being bought out by EA, it would have been the same thing. 

I completely disagree with the "draw you in" factor. A themepark mmo cannot draw you into the story when you know everyone around you is killing the same bosses and saving the same day over and over again. The IP is good, it was popular before WoW which helps that aspect, but not enough. 

 

But its not the IP.   Middle earth was a bigger IP than Warcraft, and while it has had moderate success its nowhere near WoW.  Star Wars is the biggest IP in the world (NOT debatable) and that didnt work so well.  EQ started from scratch and they did just fine.  How did the Warhammer and Hyboria IPs turn out?

And im talking about things unrelated to quests.  the actual world that you quest in.  The cities.  The scenery, the landscapes.  The life thats happening around you that has nothing to do with you or your story.  Lore is a part of this too.  Its a big equation and I stand by saying that so far only two games have nailed it (with FFXI becoming the closest after those two)

Orig

Yes, Azeroth has soul.  the endgame direction since about halfway through BC has been pretty crappy, but that doesnt change the foundation the game was based on.   Name a game, besides Everquest 1, that has a more interesting game world?

 FFXI LOTOR (prior IP) SWG pre NGE (piror IP) Shadow Bane, DAOC

And the people who say the game has zero community probably aren't very good at making friends.  The city trade chat channels may be abysmal, but its not very difficult to make friends and find people to do stuff with outside of guild.

The point you missed is that there isn't any reason to. You aren't forced to make friends to do raids or PvP anymore because they autmoated the entire game instead of fostering the creation of a community.

see orange

you people are going to be in for a rude shock when you finally get playing this game.. and realize there is a monthly fee and micro transactions. The micro's just ruin character progression no matter how you look at it, if you can't play the game normally and loot stuff you would otherwise buy from the store its a failed game in a ton of peoples eyes. Even if you're only buying appearance gear and potions it ruins the point of why some of us play games which is to progress our characters and upgrade as we play the game, not by buying stuff from a store.. That makes the point of any game pointless which is why MT's fail in north america.

I think way too many of you are blinded by star wars the lore and or just rabid bioware fans to ever see how shallow and crappy this game will eventually end up being. And if you don't wanna keep playing wow clones well into the future, we all need this game to fail faster than vanguard.. which is why im not even worried about it succeeding since all it is, is a major wow ripp off and re skinned for star wars. And its all done by a company with no mmo experience and who thinks story telling belongs in mmo's LOL

3 months after this game launched it will be DOA... just like rift and any other game who thinks using wow's 8 year old mechanics is a good idea.. how many more 50+ million dollar failures do we need before they realize they aren't getting wow sub base!

Originally posted by xpiher

Those games are fun, they just aren't designed with the menality that you can play for an hour and log off while getting A LOT done in that hour by yourself. SWG pre NGE, UO (the key command system was standard when it was launched) , EvE, Haven and Hearth, etc have fairly simple controls and are pretty stright forward game play wise. The problem is, it takes thought. You aren't hand-held in these game, which is what makes them actually good (IMO). However, to most of the mmo market (which is still 25years old and younger), this level of depth and thinking over complicate that game for them. They are left with What am I suppose to do?" and log off in frustartion saying that the game doesn't have any content. Thats why pure sandbox games are typically niche, EvE and UO being the expections due to their blend of thempark 9faction fighting, quest system, etc) style gameplay and sandbox game play (open world PvP, in depth crafting system, massive amount of meta game elements, etc)

I agree. Many people fault this for arrogance, but the truth is that, as far as the entertainment industry is concerned, there are a lot of trash eaters out there. It's probably the most obvious when you look at movies and radio music, but it's becoming more and more evident in games as time progresses.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Fratman

 lol. Are you being serious? WoW has "soul" and Azeroth draws you in?? Last I checked, WoW has all level 85 players running around in the same epic gear, and no one leaves the main cities because all they do is queue for raids or arena.  Every 4-5 months there is a gear reset and the grind starts all over.

WoW is a soul-sucking timesink of a game. There is zero community because there's no reason to interact with anyone outside of your guild or arena partner. If that's your idea of an engaging mmo, then you really need to play more mmos.

 

Yes, Azeroth has soul.  the endgame direction since about halfway through BC has been pretty crappy, but that doesnt change the foundation the game was based on.   Name a game, besides Everquest 1, that has a more interesting game world?

 

And the people who say the game has zero community probably aren't very good at making friends.  The city trade chat channels may be abysmal, but its not very difficult to make friends and find people to do stuff with outside of guild.

    the community is toxic, just try sitting and listenting to the chat on any server.  This has got nothing to do with 'making friends' 

Agree about the world in wow, but blizz strategy changed thart from encouraging immersion in that world to rushing through the leveling to get you to 80 asap. pre mid bc it was awsome and degraded from there when activision got their hands in. 

As long as they release a game that is polished anf un then I see no reason why it can't give the industry a boost. Just a boost though, nothing more.

It is now said that the author of the harry potter books now has more money (net worth)  then the Queen of England ...  I am not sure how that works out to Star wars income as the speaker did not compare other books/movies/games/everything to the worth of the Queen. 

I just toss that out for " Food for thought"  when you mention how much value a property has made.  And claim that this ONE is bigger then all the rest  NOT Debateable ?  Everything under the sun is open for Debate ...  Count on it.

Originally posted by StormwindX

Originally posted by Zooce

Poorly written article.

A de-emphasis on crafting, lack of customizable player housing, and rich storytelling are hardly revolutionary.  Also, try proofreading your opening paragraph.

 

I've noticed that, recently, most of the articles here have been very badly written, with spelling mistakes, lack of proof-reading and even glaring internet vices ("there" instead of "their" when referring to possession, excessive use or lack of necessary apostrophes, etc). 

 

MMORPG.com really needs to up the quality of its editors. And of its writers.

 This article wasn't written by any of the mmorpg.com editors or writers.

SWTOR will be what it is. The innovation we really need is a ban on nesting quotes that take up half a page, only to find some nonsensical one liner at the bottom.

Originally posted by howtoland

This site has really gone to garbage.

 Article wasn't written by this site.

Spelling aside, I think the article is correct in that TOR will be huge, and change the industry.

Whether that will be a good thing, remains to be seen.

I don't see how it will be any different than a game like Rift or LoTRO. Hope I'm wrong, because I'm tired of these games that are only meant to be played for 2 weeks before the boredom caused by repetitive gameplay kicks in.

Originally posted by Golelorn

I don't see how it will be any different than a game like Rift or LoTRO. Hope I'm wrong, because I'm tired of these games that are only meant to be played for 2 weeks before the boredom caused by repetitive gameplay kicks in.

Then stop buying them? Buy the niche games made by indy companies.

I am trying to avoid commenting on games that I really don't have much interest in playing, and this comments are pointed more at the article then the game itself.

I am disappointed in the lackluster points that are brought up in an article about how a game is going to change the world of mmo's. Seriously, you have crafting, housing and it's made by Bioware. 

Crafting is not something new or groundbreaking, and sure they talk about how great it's going to be with having underlings do some of the work, but when it comes to crafting, the point is how much of a benefit it brings. If the crafted items are great enough then crafting holds a purpose, but if they are not as good as raid/dungeon/openworld/purchased items then irregardless of how great the process may be, it's still useless.  If they are  too great then other things suffer, so balance is key. Nothing in the hype is showing what the case will be.

Housing is nice, but it's not new to the genre either. I love the idea of housing, and really hope that it will become a resolute part of all MMO's but even if that happens SWTOR doesn't get kudos for making it happen.

Bioware tells great stories. Sure. Great stories are a staple of a good RPG, but when it comes to an MMO, the more detailed a story is, the more single player orientated it is. How do you tell a great story when someone else is making their own story? Do these stories mix together or do they simply fall to the wayside when people meet and group.  I have faith that Bioware can tell a wonderful story, and that they will do a great job of it with SWTOR, but I don't think that it's going to be doing the MMORPG genre any favors. I definately don't think it's going to rewrite the way that MMORPG's are made.

That being said, I have faith that SWTOR will be a good game, and earn a fair keep but I don't think that it will change the industry as such, at least not by any information that was presented in this article.  

Equivlent to forum trolling because the topic can't be proed one way or the other while there's an NDA in place.  Maybe Blizzard is great at creating a market for its products.  Maybe they're just in the right place at the right time.  While I think they're a shade of their former selves, they have been the cornerstone of the PC industry for a long time.

As for Bioware, I love their games, but I think they're moving towards that corporate mentality and away from just creating great games.  Besides voiceovers, player housing and facebook style crafting aren't very progressive. They've also got all their eggs in one basket with the story.  Now, I'll be the first to say that is one of the things I've always complained about in MMOs, but ... that was 8 years ago.  Second, many of TOR's systems look like ones I've already seen and were stale 4 years ago.  The talent trees being the most obvious example.

Look at what Rift did and look at where The Secret World is going from a character development perspective and tell me that another MMO with skills, trainers and talent trees really gets you excited.  To me, TOR character system looks like a cross between TR and AoC to me and neither were very good.

This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

Originally posted by fcazares

This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

just another mmo imo, just being sold by the star wars brand, gw2 is the only upcoming mmo looking to break the mold

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by fcazares

This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

 

Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

 So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.

Originally posted by fcazares

Originally posted by xpiher

Originally posted by fcazares

This game will be different than the other traditional MMOs because it will add BioWARE's story telling formula to the genre. When you go to do those MMO style quests you will know why and know the story because it will be narrated to you every step of the way. You wont click through the story because its all written. When you reach max level on a class you can start an alt and have a compeltely different story and experience or use the same class and choose different opetions for another angle of the story. Which makes it less of a grind when playing an MMO. My biggest problem with MMO's is the stupid boring grind that seem pointless in the context of the story just so the developer can stave off adding more real content. I'm tired of having to wait for them to release something new so I dont spend all my time in the grind. A replayability in an MMO like you have in the RPG's that BioWARE makes is huge for a gamer like me. Immersion and story are paramount and finally we'll see an MMO from a company that specializes in it. That's why its exciting to me.

 

Then you should play sandbox games and single player games. It really irritating for those of us who actually like the social aspects of the game, the community build, etc that people like you and themepark games are taking the genre over. You beat a game and quit because thats all the game is to you and thats all its designed to be.

 So you're trying to imply that SW:TOR will not have a social aspect, even though it has everything most MMO's have in that area? Seriously? Thats a hollow argument. Your attack about sandboxy is ludicris because thats a tiny niche market and not indicative of BioWARE's work. I don't quit games, games quit their subscirbers when they stave off putting in content by putting in fluff. Small communities like that sort of crap and thats why those kinds of games fail. This will be a full fledged MMO with the common elemts of the genre all in there but added on will be BioWARE's storytelling technique. Thats the point and you tried your best to avoid arguing over what is clearly a fact and why this game, despite your jaded critical attitude, will be successful.

The blod part is exactly why most MMO are completely crap at the foundation. Yes, I am saying that SWTOR will not have the social aspect that I'm talking about because 90% of MMOs on the market do not have that social aspect anymore. Its more than meeting up for raids or playing the game together, its about community building. For instance, while I am playing rift and enjoying it atm, it does not have a focus on community development/involvment. Its MMO fast food. Once I'm done doing raids and all that jazz, the game will be boring unless the devlopers can make world shaping through pvp improtant becuase thats the only way themepark games can make community building important. 

KTOR, the IP behind TOR, is a sandbox game franchise. If you played it, you'd know why I call it a sandbox, largely because of the ability to shape the world. TOR will not have the game shaping aspects, not in the meaningful sense anyways. You'll be able to shape your story, but not the world itself. On top of this, there is a finite amount of story haping that you can actual particapte in and everyone playing the game has the same options to shape their story the same way you do. SWG (pre-nge) had world shaping on a level no themepark game (VG was very close) can ever hope to acheve. TOR will be no different. The themepark modle is too ridgid and  it appeals to a difference audience. 

Just to make it clear, I don't care if SWTOR is sucessful or not. It probably will be, just like rift, wow, and AoC and EQ. That doesn't mean the game will be more or rather better than any of them. From the information and how the devs hype the game SWTOR is simply another themepark mmo. The reason people are tired of seeing the same "wow clone" is for the same reason why you quit themepark games every 6months until new content is released. If you are tired of that same old crap (as the ornage text leads me to believe) then you should stop buying the same old crap. Demand that the game have features and community building tools, things that make the game new and refershing every day even if its the same. Dynamic content, world building tools, player vs player confilct that actually impacts the world (not zone take over like WAR but desimation and permanet destruction like SB), etc. 

No matter how much you want to believe other wise, SWTOR isn't breaking the mold for the MMO. It simply injecting a single player experience into an MMO and then making you pay for it. I'd rather play Skyrim and KOTR for a single payment of $50 (or less) than shell out 15 a month for the same crap.

And just to be clear, I think that you'll quit SWTOR after you've played through the game just like you do with every other themepark game.