Originally posted by MMOExposed

Wait, based on that video, the attacks arent aim like a 3PS, but the go towards the target, wherever that target may be.

The game was never stated to be a 3PS MMO. There have been some comparisons, but having to 'aim' wasn't one of them. There are ground targetting abilities, but that's not quite the same. Hopefully you weren't mislead into believing so.

a good read. thanks for the info!

This is the most active gameplay video I've seen so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0J4J2F-f9A

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Wait, based on that video, the attacks arent aim like a 3PS, but the go towards the target, wherever that target may be.

GW2 is not a 3rd person shooter and you do not have to manually aim your attacks; however, if a attack is launched, it goes to where the target was at the time of launch, and if the target should move prior to the attack landing, the attack will miss.

That's how both tab-targetting and dodge-rolling can work.

I am a bit afrait it might overwhelm me. If such things are possible, they may very well be needed even in PVE. Oh well.

Really?  Up a notch?  Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch.  Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out.  So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever.  Big deal.

As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical.  I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical.  But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers.  Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.

Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use.  No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique.  Bottom line:  as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...

Originally posted by daeandor

Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.

 

Except that every melee class has a ranged weapon type, a closing move, and that auto-targeting does NOT mean that ranged attacks automatically hone in on an enemy; they launch where the target WAS, not where the target WILL BE if the target moves.

So, yeah, not quite like EQ and its descendents.

Originally posted by daeandor

Really?  Up a notch?  Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch.  Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out.  So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever.  Big deal.

 

As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical.  I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical.  But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers.  Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.

 

Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use.  No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique.  Bottom line:  as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...

 

I don't think anyone is really combat that much. Read the above posts, just about everyone is saying they like GW2 combat for being different. A small few really believe it will change and dominate the MMO genre, most of its fanbase simply want something new.

When you speak of just simply moving, yea it may not be that cool. But when you bundle it with all the other combat features such as environment weapons, cross-class combos, and active vs passive combat, its not really the same as other MMO. Also, the combat is not entirely auto-targetting. Infact, there are various videos showcasing a whole line of skills just being aimed at absolutely nothing. And being able to cast/fire while on the move doesn't mean you are dominating. It's actually the "softer" weapons that are mobile. The stronger ranged weapons are actually more stationary to balance them out.

But in reality, if you've ever played competetive MMO's you'd understand that stopping for 2 seconds everytime you cast makes the game very systematic.

Now to me, GW2 combat is NOT worse than the regular stationary combat. But when you feel it compared to other MMO's, it is certainly not the same. So in theory, if it's not worse (unproven...) and not the same, it only has one direction to be. And that's a notch up, even if ever so slightly.

Just grab your younger sister and show them various combat clips of MMOs and ask them which one looks the most different. I can tell you right now, between LOTRO, WoW, and Rift, my younger wouldn't be able to tell the difference. She also thought FFXIV looked different. But that's more towards it's art...

I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-

There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...

Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.

Originally posted by daeandor

Really?  Up a notch?  Maybe I have been watching different videos, but it doesn't seem to be all that much of a notch.  Think about it, people have been using movement as a means to improve their survival in mmorpgs since mmorpgs came out.  So you don't have to stop for 0.5 - 2.0 seconds it takes to cast a spell, fire an arrow, or whatever.  Big deal.

 

As if for some reason having unrestricted movement makes the game more tactical.  I contend that when you had to actually time spells and actions based on their movement restrictions, the game was more tactical.  But yay, now I can move and cast spells in GW2 but still have to contend with global cooldown timers.  Oh, and the overwhelming domination of ranged classes in pvp that this type of ability promotes in a game that has auto-targetting.

 

Lastly, someone mentioned earlier that FPS style games have their own issues with combat that become monotonous after continued use.  No different than EQ's original point, click, auto-attack, yawn technique.  Bottom line:  as much as I like GW2 concept, it is overhyped and will get hurt by that overhype...

You're talking about moving as one aspect of the GW2 combat that doesn't impress you, then bashing the whole system, as if it's the only aspect.

First off, mobs in GW2 will attack differently than in a holy trinity MMO.  They are going to try to kill the ones you'd expect mobs to try to kill, the high damage, low armored, more actually threatening people.  Taunting doesn't exist in GW2 and the people in the tanking, (or "controlling" role in GW2 terms) won't just have a lock on aggro due to additional threat.  More likely, they'll be trying to knock a mob down from behind while it goes for the caster. 

In that kind of system, casting while moving is a necessity, not just a convenience.

It goes hand in hand with being able to dodge attacks and projectiles.  Warriors can go into a toggled shield stance that blocks projectiles from hitting players behind them.  A tank in PVP goes from either being useless or relying on silly mechanics to being a viable shield wall with a mace to stun the guy trying to go around him.

Anyone can rez anybody else at any time in GW2's system.  No longer will it just be that someone screwed up, time to call a wipe.  It will allow players to battle back and recover from mistakes.  Also, it lets mobs do things that would be pretty unfair in a traditional MMO, like hit really hard.  We've already seen video of a dynamic event boss 1-shotting a thief who got careless.  That isn't even in the dungeons which will be the hard content.

Different classes use weapons differently.  A bow in the hands of a ranger is a single target weapon.  In the hands of a warrior, it's an AOE weapon.  The feel of combat can totally change based on class and weapon, like using a mace for stuns or a greatsword for melee AOE.  It's not like other games where any weapon is as good as any other because they're just doing damage.

Weapons and skills change when going underwater.  You can't swing a sword so you use a harpoon gun or a trident and get different skills.  Fire magic boils the water instead of just acting the same.

Players have multiple weapon sets, kits or attunements so they can switch up their role in combat.  You're not locked into being the tank, dps or healer.  You can adopt a different role on the fly to adjust to what you need to be doing. 

Different classes can work together with cross profession combos.  Arrows shot through a fire wall doing extra damage is the most commonly cited example, but there's supposed to be like 100 of them. 

I'm not sure if I missed anything.  I'm sure someone will help me out if I did.  (EDIT, forgot your skillbar changing when you pick up an environmental weapon, dammit.  EDIT#2, I also forgot that there's no ally targeting, so you can look at the screen and not at health bars.  Ally healing is done through secondary and AOE effects.)

Anyway, is there any point in the middle of that that GW2 meets the stated goal of kicking combat up a notch?

Originally posted by EzequielBE

I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-

There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...

 

Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.

I have played AoC, and I would say one of the bigger flaws of that game is not that combat is active, but rather the DDR style of combo execution and the blatant advantage casters had over melee in that respect. The shields/whiff potential, lack of auto attack, and the fact that you struck everything in your path with your sword were great innovations and are unfortunately overlooked due to people's prejudice over the other aspects of AoC that did not fare as well.

Unfortunately since I didn't like much else about AoC once I left Tortage, and since as a caster I felt that particular combat innovation did not extend to my class, I am much more excited about what Guild Wars 2 has to offer that not even AoC did. You could say that people are excited because GW2 offers something similar to AoC, but improved, and a chance at the rest of the game not being broken at launch :).

Originally posted by sidhaethe

Originally posted by EzequielBE

I don't understand. Have the people who claim this type of combat to be 'refreshing' been hiding under a rock for the past 3-4 years? Age of Conan has the most innovative combat system to date -casters being the exception, but still, they have this thing called spellweaving-

There's 'active blocking' through the positioning of your shields, there's positioning involved as hitting an unprotected side has less dmg mitigation, there's the combo system ofcourse, there's manually dodging by performing double-tap sidesteps, there's an active stunning through double-tapping 'move up', ...

 

Really, if you have played that game -and I'm talking about the combat only, feel free to talk about the other content or failed implementation of it anywhere else but here- you'll soon realize that the combat of GW2 is dated before it has even been launched or released.

I have played AoC, and I would say one of the bigger flaws of that game is not that combat is active, but rather the DDR style of combo execution and the blatant advantage casters had over melee in that respect. The shields/whiff potential, lack of auto attack, and the fact that you struck everything in your path with your sword were great innovations and are unfortunately overlooked due to people's prejudice over the other aspects of AoC that did not fare as well.

Unfortunately since I didn't like much else about AoC once I left Tortage, and since as a caster I felt that particular combat innovation did not extend to my class, I am much more excited about what Guild Wars 2 has to offer that not even AoC did. You could say that people are excited because GW2 offers something similar to AoC, but improved, and a chance at the rest of the game not being broken at launch :).

 

The main gripe I had with AoC was that combat was almost a "locked in" sort of mechanic. It's hard to describe really, but even with the evades and stuns, entering combat was like locking into a mechanic for a while. I have always said that AoC could have been better if their combat was a bit more fluid in that everything was more seemless. I like the directional attack and think it should be kept in MMO's, but the way AoC did it, it was made it into something akin to turn-based-puzzle-solving. This of course is not bad, but my opinion is that it could have been much more if only they integrated it a bit more.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura. :)

 

First time?  DCUO has already been mentioned.  It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc.  I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.

My question is why just go half measured?  An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right.  This hybrid system just seems odd. 

Originally posted by adam_nox

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura. :)

 

First time?  DCUO has already been mentioned.  It's a real MMO, it's more of an MMO than GW1 was, with less instancing, more raids, more PvE, etc.  I doubt anything will beat the action and tactical feel of it's combat for a long time. I'm glad GW2 is trying to add a little to the standard MMO-fare, but it's not the first in anything, and definitely won't be the paradigm.

My question is why just go half measured?  An mmo where your characters weapon or projectile has to make 3D contact with it's target based on physics and trajectory would have been pretty revolutionary if done right.  This hybrid system just seems odd. 

I can understand wondering why GW2 went in the hybrid direction, but having played DCUO I can only say - speaking for myself, of course - thank GOODness they didn't go all the way console-style. I liked the idea of DCUO but I had no desire to have to whip out a controller to play my MMO on my PC, and after a handful of levels I just found the amount of click-and-hold mouse combos to not be worth my while when I just wanted to play the darned game. YMMV of course, but this is also why I dislike games that have entirely free aiming with a target reticule the way TERA is supposed to be.

GW2 is more along the lines of Champions Online, and that's just at the edges of my comfort level. I'm not standing around kicking the shins of NPCs, but I don't have to tie my fingers in knots clicking in increasingly-complex combinations just to fire a rank 3 fireball, either.

I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.

The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.

On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.

ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting

I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura. :)

Well not quite the first time in a mmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZTVB203czE&feature=youtu.be&hd=1 but its nice that Anet is at least trying something different.

Originally posted by Doomedfox

I am still not sure if ill like the more active combat or not.

The action side of me is looking forward to the more active combat as it surely will add more need to pay attention and actual skill might become important again.

On the other hand the RPG fan side of me is crying out in pain about this combat system what use it is to build u an eva class if all classes regardless on skilling and equipment can dodge by just hitting 1 button hell building anything else than a Plate wearer will put me in a disadvantage now since i can evade anyway but if i miss the right timing i at least wear the most armor to get best protection.

ANet said in a Video that they wanted to put RPG back into MMORPG and right after that they explained there combat which was really contradicting

 

I wonder if my gamemaster for Shadowrun will allow me to evade all attacks only course i say i evade worth a try i guess lol

A game being an RPG has nothing to do with what kind of combat system it has.

So GW2's revolutionary and innovative new features are...

Moving during combat... and unique graphics for each class?

While the latter is a MUST in any game and I believe the latter should have been done a decade ago, it doesn't actually do anything for combat. In the end, graphics don't really matter because the game (or movie) you watch begins to all meld together and we as humans no longer can perceive all the detail going on at any one moment. Which is why black and white movies "turn into color" as you forget they're black and white-- or how spell effects cease to be glamorous after 100,000 of them all combine together. Each class has unique spell effects and animations? WOW! That means GW2 spent more money on graphics than usual, because the budget is bigger. I'm just really glad the writer of this review explained to us so clearly how graphics and animations directly impact game mechanics and strategy!

Movement during combat is not only not new, it is extremely, extremely old. Almost every MMO in existence includes movement during combat. In fact, I don't know a single MMORPG where PvP doesn't require constant movement, strafing, and chasing.

FPS aiming, manual dodging and blocking? This is extremely old as well. Not only have MMORPG's done this before, but there are MANY of them. It also doesn't mean a better or more strategic combat system. It means nothing. Nothing innovative. Nothing new. Nothing special. DDO and Darkfall already do all 3 of these things, and those games are OLD!

What did I gather from this review? GW2 combat is identical to every other MMORPG combat, and is nothing new. Also, the reviewer probably "quit other games because of the combat" which is identical to GW2's combat-- the bias and new factor just blinds him to it. Ugh!!

Oh, and I almost forgot-- you can switch weapons? Wow, what innovation! It's not like picking your class or hybrid, or Rift's 3-class creation system didn't do this far before GW2. In fact, GW2 sounds A LOT like Rift, only slightly different and with LESS innovation.

This article does nothing more than prove the fact I already knew: GW2 is pure hype, and will certainly NOT be any different than any other game released in 2011. Dynamic events are already done as well...and a lot of GW2 fanbois didn't like them. They were called Rifts. World PvP will be no different than cross server PvP or a horribly butchered version of Relic Keeps in DAoC.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Tiny step ? As mentioned above, dodge and roll is being used for the first time in a mmo, not to mention the L4D style of reviving teammates. You also have water combat , which is not new but how it is being done is unique. Nothing tiny about Guild Wars 2 except Asura. :)

Well not quite the first time in a mmo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZTVB203czE&feature=youtu.be&hd=1 but its nice that Anet is at least trying something different.

Not only is it not the first time, but it's quite an old feature in MMORPG's. The oldest one that comes to mind is DDO, which is quite old.

Darkfall created the L4D reviving... 8 months after L4D...and it was under development far before L4D was even fathomed in the mind of Valve. (Correct me if I'm wrong on that one.) So the idea might have been original at the time Darkfall created the idea. (As original as can be in a world full of probably hundreds of games which already did this, starting back in the Atari days).

Dissatisfied9, if you can't figure out why someone might not have wanted to play Darkfall, or DDO, or DAOC, or Rift (or better, might have actually tried/played each of those games, and not enjoyed them), but is still looking forward to GW2, then you're right, there's nothing anyone else can say to you. Glad you found the game you want to play.