I recently logged back in myself on the PC servers and as I mentioned in a post on another thread I was expecting tumbleweeds to bounce down the once-busy streets of Gotham.

I asked what was the main reason for the drop in players and the majority of answers I received was that once players hit level 30 there wasn't anything left for them to do so they moved on to another game. However, mention was made that servers would be merged and "megaservers" would be created 'soon'. But yeah, they definitely need to redo the chat system for PC. It's  still by far the worst setup of any mmo I've played.

Looks like someone vastly underestimated the time it would take to hit the level cap. A real shame that DCUO is not doing well - the game-world is one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. But again, as I mentioned in a post in another thread beautiful graphics alone can't carry a MMO.

So. Any bets on DCUO becoming F2P by year's end?

recently bought this when it was reduced on steam and in my first month i never saw more than two people at any onetime on the EU sever, i would have kept going if they was some population but it seemed stupid to pay a monthly fee to play alone

The Live servers are in even worse shape the past (almost) week, as the Test Server is up with the Megaservers, Update 4, all the game's changes, and so forth. So, a lot of the (remaining) population is playing on there.

I don't have a subscription there right now, but have been keeping an eye on the forums. We have a 16 month old, and the wife misses playing MMOs with me. Her preference is DCUO, since it is quick and easy, something especially good for having the little guy around the house (especially since he still doesn't sleep more than 3-4 hours at a pop). She still has her 45 days free (one must claim it by August 31st, or lose it), and we're probably just waiting for what's on Test to go Live before going back.

Honestly, though? DCUO is just something I'll play with her. For me, I'll remain in Champions with my SG and friends when she can't play. DCUO had their chance to gain me as a loyal player, Cao blew it. Mark Anderson has a long way to go to fix what Cao did to the game.

Originally posted by korvass

I kinda liked it too, but I believe it would have done better had they fully integrated PC and console gamers on the same servers right from the start. Different types of gamers, perhaps, but still all gamers when it comes down to it.

I mean, you can get keyboards for PS3, and perhaps they could have added some sort of integrated, in-game text recognition system like we've had on cell phones for a billion years...

But for me, once I realised I wasn't going to be able to game with a group of my PS3 friends (who are all comic book fans), my interest sort of just... died.

But that's always been my problem with SOE, going back to SWG. They've always had really good ideas, but they end up with piss-poor execution or finishing, and the only words that kept coming to mind, game after game, patch after patch, were, 'lost potential'.

I think DCUO will be shutdown way before it's due time. It'll probably go the way of MXO (another game that had awesome ideas, systems, and atmosphere).

Well, cross platform isn't going to happen.  Free realms developers don't even sync their two platform version up.  The whole submission process for the PS3 is a mess.  This game would have been better if they chose only one platform.  Two platforms is just causing issues and delaying updates/features.

Originally posted by Beauman

The Live servers are in even worse shape the past (almost) week, as the Test Server is up with the Megaservers, Update 4, all the game's changes, and so forth. So, a lot of the (remaining) population is playing on there.

I don't have a subscription there right now, but have been keeping an eye on the forums. We have a 16 month old, and the wife misses playing MMOs with me. Her preference is DCUO, since it is quick and easy, something especially good for having the little guy around the house (especially since he still doesn't sleep more than 3-4 hours at a pop). She still has her 45 days free (one must claim it by August 31st, or lose it), and we're probably just waiting for what's on Test to go Live before going back.

Honestly, though? DCUO is just something I'll play with her. For me, I'll remain in Champions with my SG and friends when she can't play. DCUO had their chance to gain me as a loyal player, Cao blew it. Mark Anderson has a long way to go to fix what Cao did to the game.

I kept saying the game would improve post Cao.  EQ2 and SWG all improved after he left.  And since he left, the game has gotten better.  The devs communivate more.  The updates are more frequent.  And marketing is finally taking the cuffs off the producers/directors.

I think DCUO can make a turn around.  It has a lot of problems, population being a huge one.  Even the devs have admitted that.  But at its core, it has more potential than CO and COH.  It needs to find the right business model for it and get the tighter systems under their belt.

Originally posted by gt4980b

Originally posted by Beauman

The Live servers are in even worse shape the past (almost) week, as the Test Server is up with the Megaservers, Update 4, all the game's changes, and so forth. So, a lot of the (remaining) population is playing on there.

I don't have a subscription there right now, but have been keeping an eye on the forums. We have a 16 month old, and the wife misses playing MMOs with me. Her preference is DCUO, since it is quick and easy, something especially good for having the little guy around the house (especially since he still doesn't sleep more than 3-4 hours at a pop). She still has her 45 days free (one must claim it by August 31st, or lose it), and we're probably just waiting for what's on Test to go Live before going back.

Honestly, though? DCUO is just something I'll play with her. For me, I'll remain in Champions with my SG and friends when she can't play. DCUO had their chance to gain me as a loyal player, Cao blew it. Mark Anderson has a long way to go to fix what Cao did to the game.

I kept saying the game would improve post Cao.  EQ2 and SWG all improved after he left.  And since he left, the game has gotten better.  The devs communivate more.  The updates are more frequent.  And marketing is finally taking the cuffs off the producers/directors.

I think DCUO can make a turn around.  It has a lot of problems, population being a huge one.  Even the devs have admitted that.  But at its core, it has more potential than CO and COH.  It needs to find the right business model for it and get the tighter systems under their belt.

While I never thought I would be saying this, I can't disagree with what you said. Mark Anderson seems to be on the right path. I have some friends that still play and are on Test Server, and a lot of the changes and additions seem to be in the right direction.

Now, granted, I am not a fan of Fight for the Light being a DLC at this point in the game's lifespan. It's too early, with the game still being a mess. They should have held off until maybe January for a DLC, and given the new team time to further fix the game more, add more content updates, and show that they are actually trying to fix the issues Cao stuck them with.

I won't lie, I've been in MMOs for 12 years, so I've grown used to certain things being in a game. It's one reason I'll still play Champions. At the same time, I would not want DCUO to become a "Champions or CoX". I'd rather see it build upon what it is: a Super-Hero Action MMO. Champions offers a lot of the features I am used to in an MMO, but DCUO is, in all honestly, more fun.

It will never replace what I look for in a full MMO, but it is starting to win me over for the type of game that it is trying to be. And much more the case lately, DCUO is a better fit for the less time we have to play in a week. There is no way we could schedule a game like WoW or Rift into our daily lives anymore.

The wife prefers DCUO over CO (we were both 6 years CoX vets, too). She pointed out to me last night what I said above: the game play is fun, and the super-casual nature is a perfect fit for our current lives. We're both interested in SWTOR, but question if we have the "real time" for it.

I'm curious how DCU has gotten better since Cao has left.  What exactly has changed to suggest that things are getting better?

Since Cao left DCU has had a cash shop added to the game, cash content update instead of free content updates as promised.  Otherwise everything really seems like it is business as usual for the game.   

The excecutive producer "Deadmeat" has a total of 61 posts, but only 3 posts since Cao was fired.

The lead producer Mark Anderson "Manderson" 12 total posts and not a single new thread to his credit.

Jens Anderson the creative director has 12 total posts and all 12 were done over a span of 4 days after SOE fan faire last week.

Mark Anderson is a much more likable face than Chris Cao was, but he is walking into the mess that Chris Cao created.  I don't think the team was unaware of the problems with DCU and Cao was somehow keeping the game from reaching those goals.  At this point the problems are built deep into the design of the game more than they are held back by the person making decisions. 

Likewise I just don't think that promoting the art director to lead producer is somehow going to create a drastic turnaround. 

It was dead a month ago, and no surprise that it's dead now, considering that the latest new content had to be bought in a game that's lack of content cannot be overstated. 

Absolutely disgusting.

I can't express strongly enough how sad I am that this game has failed. I love DC comics. I love MMOs. I loved this game.

There is so much wrong with this game, but at its core there was potential. Good combat, a good story, and Mark Hamill as the joker. All they needed was better dev support, way more content (and if you don't start off with that content, for god's sake put it in quickly, and most importantly to cater more to PC gamers.

Seriously, is it so hard to create two UI models? I have seen literally thousands of community made UIs for WoW, but they can't make a PC and a PS3 one for this game? With completely different servers it's not like they could complain it made it somehow imbalanced or something. On top of that, don't hold back content because the PS3 restricts your updates SOE, do what Aion does with the Korean servers and western servers. Release the updates on the PC as soon as they're ready, then release them later on the PS3 when you can. Of course this was way too much effort for SOE.

Rant over. I am so gutted this game is dead.

Originally posted by Daffid011

I'm curious how DCU has gotten better since Cao has left.  What exactly has changed to suggest that things are getting better?

Since Cao left DCU has had a cash shop added to the game, cash content update instead of free content updates as promised.  Otherwise everything really seems like it is business as usual for the game.   

The excecutive producer "Deadmeat" has a total of 61 posts, but only 3 posts since Cao was fired.

The lead producer Mark Anderson "Manderson" 12 total posts and not a single new thread to his credit.

Jens Anderson the creative director has 12 total posts and all 12 were done over a span of 4 days after SOE fan faire last week.

 

 

Mark Anderson is a much more likable face than Chris Cao was, but he is walking into the mess that Chris Cao created.  I don't think the team was unaware of the problems with DCU and Cao was somehow keeping the game from reaching those goals.  At this point the problems are built deep into the design of the game more than they are held back by the person making decisions. 

Likewise I just don't think that promoting the art director to lead producer is somehow going to create a drastic turnaround. 

While CC was running DCUO, no devs spoke about anything but bugs in the game.  Not one peep came from SOE austin.  Smedley made more comments on the game than the devs on this game.  CC would pop on every month to post a description of the content...but no feedback on the game.  Deadmeat only posted about bugs during this time.

Post Cao there has been an increase of communication in quantity and quality.  Please keep in mind there were Facebook and a tweet or two.  Not much on twitter to be honest.  They have been more honest about the state of the game.  Real Q&A's on stickcam vids.  The last stickcam vid had NO marketing people in the room which is a first for this game.  They have relaxed the iron grip on the forums and have let the player vent.  There is a test server.  Not only for mega servers but update 4 is on the test server right now.  They have actually changed some of the power animations to allow player to differentiate between a power that heals you and a power that will get you killed.  CC would not even entertain change.  Its little small things that make a huge difference in connecting with your community.  The players that are still left are much happier today than 3/4 months ago. 

By the by...M Anderson was pretty much the driving force behind the change of DCUO combat from classic RPG to an action RPG. (Some people find that good and some bad) That's why he was recognized and promoted.

Originally posted by Pabswikk

I can't express strongly enough how sad I am that this game has failed. I love DC comics. I love MMOs. I loved this game.

There is so much wrong with this game, but at its core there was potential. Good combat, a good story, and Mark Hamill as the joker. All they needed was better dev support, way more content (and if you don't start off with that content, for god's sake put it in quickly, and most importantly to cater more to PC gamers.

Seriously, is it so hard to create two UI models? I have seen literally thousands of community made UIs for WoW, but they can't make a PC and a PS3 one for this game? With completely different servers it's not like they could complain it made it somehow imbalanced or something. On top of that, don't hold back content because the PS3 restricts your updates SOE, do what Aion does with the Korean servers and western servers. Release the updates on the PC as soon as they're ready, then release them later on the PS3 when you can. Of course this was way too much effort for SOE.

Rant over. I am so gutted this game is dead.

Browser just deleted my post...bah

Aion has two different design teams.  I don't think SOE is going to put that kind of money into a Superhero MMO.  Maybe an EQ but not for an IP they pay for.

To change the control scheme would mean you would have to rebuild your game.  If you added more hotbars, you have just made every player stronger and slower to react.  This would require every mob to be tuned for the control scheme...this would include new animations, new AI, damage tuning, Database impact, physics engine adjustments.  And now we are talking about two teams to build and balance two different games. 

Originally posted by Beauman

I won't lie, I've been in MMOs for 12 years, so I've grown used to certain things being in a game. It's one reason I'll still play Champions. At the same time, I would not want DCUO to become a "Champions or CoX". I'd rather see it build upon what it is: a Super-Hero Action MMO. Champions offers a lot of the features I am used to in an MMO, but DCUO is, in all honestly, more fun.

It will never replace what I look for in a full MMO, but it is starting to win me over for the type of game that it is trying to be. And much more the case lately, DCUO is a better fit for the less time we have to play in a week. There is no way we could schedule a game like WoW or Rift into our daily lives anymore.

The wife prefers DCUO over CO (we were both 6 years CoX vets, too). She pointed out to me last night what I said above: the game play is fun, and the super-casual nature is a perfect fit for our current lives. We're both interested in SWTOR, but question if we have the "real time" for it.

Absolutely agreed. It would probably help if they started marketing the game to the right target audience. This game is completely irrelevant for the classic MMO crowd. It's not a RPG, it's a action game. Start marketing it to action game players. The veteran MMORPG crowd will never accept it the way it is.

Every time I see someone complaining about how it doesn't have the standard MMO point-and-click-UI with a dozen skillbars, I feel like posting another facepalm.jpg

edit: Oh, and coming up with a more suitable payment scheme probably wouldn't hurt either. 

Originally posted by gt4980b

Originally posted by Pabswikk

I can't express strongly enough how sad I am that this game has failed. I love DC comics. I love MMOs. I loved this game.

There is so much wrong with this game, but at its core there was potential. Good combat, a good story, and Mark Hamill as the joker. All they needed was better dev support, way more content (and if you don't start off with that content, for god's sake put it in quickly, and most importantly to cater more to PC gamers.

Seriously, is it so hard to create two UI models? I have seen literally thousands of community made UIs for WoW, but they can't make a PC and a PS3 one for this game? With completely different servers it's not like they could complain it made it somehow imbalanced or something. On top of that, don't hold back content because the PS3 restricts your updates SOE, do what Aion does with the Korean servers and western servers. Release the updates on the PC as soon as they're ready, then release them later on the PS3 when you can. Of course this was way too much effort for SOE.

Rant over. I am so gutted this game is dead.

Browser just deleted my post...bah

Aion has two different design teams.  I don't think SOE is going to put that kind of money into a Superhero MMO.  Maybe an EQ but not for an IP they pay for.

To change the control scheme would mean you would have to rebuild your game.  If you added more hotbars, you have just made every player stronger and slower to react.  This would require every mob to be tuned for the control scheme...this would include new animations, new AI, damage tuning, Database impact, physics engine adjustments.  And now we are talking about two teams to build and balance two different games. 

Ah you misunderstood what I was saying about the control scheme. I just meant a more computer friendly interface. Such as a better chat box,  easier to navigate menu screen etc. I wasn't talking about hotbars or anything like that. I like the way the game works now, with the 6 powers or whatever.

With the aion example all I was saying is that if it's problems with getting the content onto the PS3 servers that apparently slow down development, then they should develop for the PC and let the PS3 version play catch up. If that makes sense...:S

I disagree about the comment regarding mmorpg players not enjoying "action" the game had a very healthy population from the mmorpg crowd but we as in I and friends left because of the underdeveloped critical features like the UI and other bugs such as the ones in the first raid.

Originally posted by eveque67

It would seem to reason.  They made a console game and made it interface with a PC.  Theres a reason consol gamers like consoles and PC gamers like the PC.  They are two different play styles.  Its not rocket science why its dead on the PC side.

This.

I've not played DCUO, but I was tempted to.   I'm a huge comic book fan, and had a lot of fun in Cox, and much less in the painful CO.    Yet, everything I read about the PC version screamed this.

---

Originally posted by SwampRob

---

Originally posted by eveque67
It would seem to reason.  They made a console game and made it interface with a PC.  Theres a reason consol gamers like consoles and PC gamers like the PC.  They are two different play styles.  Its not rocket science why its dead on the PC side.

---

This.
I've not played DCUO, but I was tempted to.   I'm a huge comic book fan, and had a lot of fun in Cox, and much less in the painful CO.    Yet, everything I read about the PC version screamed this.

---

Originally posted by Wicoa

I disagree about the comment regarding mmorpg players not enjoying "action" the game had a very healthy population from the mmorpg crowd but we as in I and friends left because of the underdeveloped critical features like the UI and other bugs such as the ones in the first raid.

My friends and I were in the same boat. We are all long time MMOers and enjoyed the action play of DCUO quite a bit. However, we absolutely hated the UI. No, I'm not saying I want 20 hotbars which is the usual negative response to people saying the UI is poor. 

It also felt like it really needed to have spent a lot more time in developement, even taking into account all games lately are released too early. I imagine it is better in that department by now though. Or at least I hope it would be.

I was hoping that given some time it would improve. From reading this post it kind of sounds like that's not happening too much.

Originally posted by sschrupp

No, I'm not saying I want 20 hotbars which is the usual negative response to people saying the UI is poor. 

Fair point. What was it then? How would you have improved the UI without changing the actual mechanics of combat and control? Would it still be playable with a gamepad if you made those changes?

Also, yes, bugs were a pretty huge factor in it's demise. Poor handling on SoEs side emphasized that quite a bit.

Originally posted by gt4980b

While CC was running DCUO, no devs spoke about anything but bugs in the game.  Not one peep came from SOE austin.  Smedley made more comments on the game than the devs on this game.  CC would pop on every month to post a description of the content...but no feedback on the game.  Deadmeat only posted about bugs during this time.

Post Cao there has been an increase of communication in quantity and quality.  Please keep in mind there were Facebook and a tweet or two.  Not much on twitter to be honest.  They have been more honest about the state of the game.  Real Q&A's on stickcam vids.  The last stickcam vid had NO marketing people in the room which is a first for this game.  They have relaxed the iron grip on the forums and have let the player vent.  There is a test server.  Not only for mega servers but update 4 is on the test server right now.  They have actually changed some of the power animations to allow player to differentiate between a power that heals you and a power that will get you killed.  CC would not even entertain change.  Its little small things that make a huge difference in connecting with your community.  The players that are still left are much happier today than 3/4 months ago. 

By the by...M Anderson was pretty much the driving force behind the change of DCUO combat from classic RPG to an action RPG. (Some people find that good and some bad) That's why he was recognized and promoted.

I don't really agree that the communication has improved.  Replacing Cao was really just a confidence move for the players.  Someone had to take the fall for DCU and Cao was that person.   Mark Anderson should be posting all over the forums to give players confidence that he is going to make things right.  So far he has 12 total posts and all of them are replies to existing topics.  I would have expected any new developer to first and formost work on a state of the game address and detail a plan of action to correct the games issues. 

Are most of the players left happier with the game than the entire populace was 3/4 months ago, I suppose.  Yet I don't think there really is an overall level of satisfaction with the game.  The server mergers are holding a lot of hope for the small amount of players still left, but I do not think it is going to resolve the games issues in a way that the remaining players think it will.  Server mergers are a temporary fix to declining popuation.

Lastly, Mark Anderson was not the driving force behind the DCU combat system.  He has stated it serveral times that the combat engine team created the system and it wasn't a product of his efforts. 

This all leads back to the original point of what can Mark Anderson do to turn the game around now that he is in charge?  He has a smaller staff and a smaller budget.  He has all the problems that previously existed on top of meeting the monthly content promise, filling a cash shop with items, creating miniexpansions for sale, merging all the servers into a new phased single server architecture all the while trying to retain the remaining players and try to attract new subscribers. 

Was Chris Cao really preventing all that from happening and replacing him with the Art Director really going to resolve those issues?

It is nice to see a face that isn't Chris Cao, but I don't really think there is much a change of leadership can do for fixing DCU. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

I don't really agree that the communication has improved.  Replacing Cao was really just a confidence move for the players.  Someone had to take the fall for DCU and Cao was that person.   Mark Anderson should be posting all over the forums to give players confidence that he is going to make things right.  So far he has 12 total posts and all of them are replies to existing topics.  I would have expected any new developer to first and formost work on a state of the game address and detail a plan of action to correct the games issues. 

Are most of the players left happier with the game than the entire populace was 3/4 months ago, I suppose.  Yet I don't think there really is an overall level of satisfaction with the game.  The server mergers are holding a lot of hope for the small amount of players still left, but I do not think it is going to resolve the games issues in a way that the remaining players think it will.  Server mergers are a temporary fix to declining popuation.

Lastly, Mark Anderson was not the driving force behind the DCU combat system.  He has stated it serveral times that the combat engine team created the system and it wasn't a product of his efforts. 

 

This all leads back to the original point of what can Mark Anderson do to turn the game around now that he is in charge?  He has a smaller staff and a smaller budget.  He has all the problems that previously existed on top of meeting the monthly content promise, filling a cash shop with items, creating miniexpansions for sale, merging all the servers into a new phased single server architecture all the while trying to retain the remaining players and try to attract new subscribers. 

Was Chris Cao really preventing all that from happening and replacing him with the Art Director really going to resolve those issues?

 

It is nice to see a face that isn't Chris Cao, but I don't really think there is much a change of leadership can do for fixing DCU. 

There won't be any significant changes to DCUO. I can't say that is a fault of Anderson, though, as much as SOE. The company let go 1/3 of their entire staff, including people from DCUO, just a few months ago. And yes, no doubt that game is on a much smaller team and budget, nowadays. Not to mention, as a friend that actually does MMO programming told me-- programing for the customized Unreal engine that DCUO uses, is more time consuming than programming for a more tradiional MMO engine.

Likewise with Anderson's post count. He isn't the top guy in charge of the game. Deadmeat is above him, and Lorrin inturn answers to others. What they say, how much, and often times "when" is controlled by SOE. That company puts a strangle hold on its people to the point of stupidity.

Monthly Updates-- I was pissed about that. But that's John Smedley for you. Read what he says, expect the opposite. I fell for it. I, especially due to my history with SOE, should have known better.

As Is said, I have Champions for my real super-hero MMO play. I have DCUO to play with the wife, since she enjoys it.

Am I totally convinced it is worth $15/mo yet? 

Nope. Not completely, yet.

Am I convinced doing something with the wife that she enjoys is worth $15/mo?

Yep.