How are you going to re-review the game before it gets any of its big patches that fix the game? You are trying to make this game fail and you rating for this game at the time being is unjust and unfair.

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Thanosxp

A shame the review came before the miracle patch, coming in a few days. Like the others miracle patches they release since...release. Soon it'll be a even better game, almost ready for release!

It's an important patch that will (ostensibly) fix and improve things that need fixing and improving. It's an important step in the right direction.

It's not a miracle patch.

How many of these "important patches" will we need before we get a fun, playable game with a decent amount of content to compete with other MMOs on the market?  By the time enough of these patches hit, FFXIV will be completely irrerevant, and newer MMOs will be blowing it out of the water.

As many as it takes. They know the issues, they're addressing the issues, they're communicating with the community about what they're doing, what their timeline is, etc. 

If it's too much for you to wait for, well, there's always those other games coming out. No one's forcing you to sit around waiting.

Is the reviewer suppose to hold off reviewing the game for another 2 years, because every month an important patch "gaurenteed" to fix various problems with the game is coming?  How many of these important patches are we suppose to wait for?

Sweet sweeping strawmen, Batman. Where did that question even come from?

I merely stated it's an important step in the right direction, but it's not a miracle patch. 

If it's absolutely too much for you to wait, then fine... don't wait. Move on to another game whose progress is more to your satisfaction. There are plenty to choose from. No one's forcing you to sit around and wait for SE. 

Limitations are a problem in MMOs.  Putting in artifical limitations like leve limits and surplus is just silly where MMOs are suppose to inheritly have more freedom.  The game designers just don't seem to value our time at all.  Even travel, after running out of anima, which recharges way too slowly in a game like this, is a tedious process.  Doing simple actions is a tedious process.  Nearly everything in the game just wastes the player's time needlessly AND you have limitations on top of that which prevent me from doing what little content the game has to offer.

... again... what does this have to do with the post you replied to?

If leves being the only path people take for the fast possible progression is a problem, limiting them is not the solution.  Instead, they could have come up with more appropiate solutions, like decreasing EXP and rewards gained from leves to be more in line with other content (or better yet, increasing rewards gained from grinding and removing surplus altogether, allowing players to level at whatever pace they want with whatever content they want).  Instead, now you have a situation where most of the players that they have left do the limited number of leves per day (roughly ~1 hour of work every 36 hours) and log off the rest of day.  Worse yet, if you grow tired of leves you really don't have much else to do.  Grinding is extremely slow progression.

... and again... nothing to do with my post.

Lack of content is a major problem in FFXIV. This isn't news to anyone, including SE. It hasn't been news to anyone, including SE, for months now. They've pretty much come out and said, "We fucked up and we're going to do everything we can to make it right". This happened months ago. 

Time has moved forward. SE is moving forward, working to address that problem. They've been working at addressing it, giving updates in interviews and Yoshi P's monthly 'Letters From the Producer'. 

If it's taking too long for you to handle, then again.... there are plenty of other MMOs out there for you to choose from. No one's forcing you to wait around.

I really don't understand what it is you expect me to tell you. That SE is "Teh Satan"?

Someone makes a remark about a miracle patch. I state it's not going to be a miracle patch, and you respond with this completely irrelevant rant. 

Originally posted by WSIMike

It's an important patch that will (ostensibly) fix and improve things that need fixing and improving. It's an important step in the right direction.

It's not a miracle patch.

I'm just going ahead and requoting that because this really should be read a few more times...XD

Lol, at least you got out of it with 14.99, I played beta..decided it was alright because I didn't get to far..bought the collectors edition because I liked it so much, and the visuals and ideas, then played for like 4 days and was like, wtf? 80 dollars gone. 

I just ran out and got my CE for 14 bucks.  :-)  Was very excited to see one in the area.  For 14 bucks, just having a digipass makes it worth that much for me.

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by WSIMike

It's an important patch that will (ostensibly) fix and improve things that need fixing and improving. It's an important step in the right direction.

It's not a miracle patch.

I'm just going ahead and requoting that because this really should be read a few more times...XD

I would be the first to agree with that but I have to argue that - why are we cutting SE a break on this when evry other game out would be ripped to pieces if its fans "just wait until the patch improves things"?

Shouldn't the game have launched with this patch? Shouldn't the game have been in this supposed better state when it launched?

When has it become okay for a game company to launch a sub-standard product only to say "we will fix it later" and all the sudden its ok?

Or is the state of the genre such that this is okay and we are lemmings running off the cliff, chasing the next big thing, willing to pay for anything in any state, with only a promise that it will get better.

I, for one, demand better and thinks a game should be in a finished and acceptable state when its launched. I do not wait for games to be fixed (games with the issues like FFXIV - somethings are acceptable and understandable). That is not being on a high-horse, that is simply demanding a quality service for the transaction involved.

I do not care when the review should have ben posted, why its posted now, what patch is coming and how its supposedly going to make the game better. FFXIV launched poorly and the critical reception (across the board) has been luke-warm at best.

MMORPG.com's review is just another review of a game that had potential and failed to live up to it....and that part remains true no matter when the review was written.

If you had followed the thread you'd know that we're not arguing wether the game deserves the score, I tink we all agree on that, we're arguing why it's coming NOW??? 

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Magnum2103

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by Thanosxp

A shame the review came before the miracle patch, coming in a few days. Like the others miracle patches they release since...release. Soon it'll be a even better game, almost ready for release!

It's an important patch that will (ostensibly) fix and improve things that need fixing and improving. It's an important step in the right direction.

It's not a miracle patch.

How many of these "important patches" will we need before we get a fun, playable game with a decent amount of content to compete with other MMOs on the market?  By the time enough of these patches hit, FFXIV will be completely irrerevant, and newer MMOs will be blowing it out of the water.

As many as it takes. They know the issues, they're addressing the issues, they're communicating with the community about what they're doing, what their timeline is, etc. 

If it's too much for you to wait for, well, there's always those other games coming out. No one's forcing you to sit around waiting.

Is the reviewer suppose to hold off reviewing the game for another 2 years, because every month an important patch "gaurenteed" to fix various problems with the game is coming?  How many of these important patches are we suppose to wait for?

Sweet sweeping strawmen, Batman. Where did that question even come from?

I merely stated it's an important step in the right direction, but it's not a miracle patch. 

If it's absolutely too much for you to wait, then fine... don't wait. Move on to another game whose progress is more to your satisfaction. There are plenty to choose from. No one's forcing you to sit around and wait for SE. 

Limitations are a problem in MMOs.  Putting in artifical limitations like leve limits and surplus is just silly where MMOs are suppose to inheritly have more freedom.  The game designers just don't seem to value our time at all.  Even travel, after running out of anima, which recharges way too slowly in a game like this, is a tedious process.  Doing simple actions is a tedious process.  Nearly everything in the game just wastes the player's time needlessly AND you have limitations on top of that which prevent me from doing what little content the game has to offer.

... again... what does this have to do with the post you replied to?

If leves being the only path people take for the fast possible progression is a problem, limiting them is not the solution.  Instead, they could have come up with more appropiate solutions, like decreasing EXP and rewards gained from leves to be more in line with other content (or better yet, increasing rewards gained from grinding and removing surplus altogether, allowing players to level at whatever pace they want with whatever content they want).  Instead, now you have a situation where most of the players that they have left do the limited number of leves per day (roughly ~1 hour of work every 36 hours) and log off the rest of day.  Worse yet, if you grow tired of leves you really don't have much else to do.  Grinding is extremely slow progression.

... and again... nothing to do with my post.

Lack of content is a major problem in FFXIV. This isn't news to anyone, including SE. It hasn't been news to anyone, including SE, for months now. They've pretty much come out and said, "We fucked up and we're going to do everything we can to make it right". This happened months ago. 

Time has moved forward. SE is moving forward, working to address that problem. They've been working at addressing it, giving updates in interviews and Yoshi P's monthly 'Letters From the Producer'. 

If it's taking too long for you to handle, then again.... there are plenty of other MMOs out there for you to choose from. No one's forcing you to wait around.

I really don't understand what it is you expect me to tell you. That SE is "Teh Satan"?

Someone makes a remark about a miracle patch. I state it's not going to be a miracle patch, and you respond with this completely irrelevant rant. 

Only my first paragraph was directed at you.  I'm sorry if I used quotes and confused you.  The rest of the post was directed at various other posts above.  I have no good method to directly quote multiple posts here.

They've come out and said it, yet there really hasn't been much in the way of improvements coming.  Changes to the EXP system which make grinding much slower and boring (going from things that were tough to fight to two shotting doblyns for SP), addition of NMs which are uninteresting encounters, changes to crafting which made some professions more difficult to level.

You use typical agruements like, "if it's too long to wait, then move on".  I'm sorry, but if everyone moves on except SE's most zealous fanboys, and especially with new MMOs from major developers in the future on the horizon, FFXIV is doomed to fail before the game becomes a complete game, not the husk of a game it is now.  I'm asking how long you fanboys are willing to wait before you accept the reality that the game will never improve to a state where it becomes the triple A quality game it was meant to be.  Maybe it will survive on it's death throes by it's overly ardent fanbase, but it's a shame SE released the game in the state it is and I personally think they should scrap this money sink before it kills their company.

I still think it's completely naive to think otherwise.  They gave monthly updates and interviews with Tanaka in charge too.  Do you really think Yoshi is going to somehow pull this game from the ashes like a Phoenix?  I've already moved on from the game months ago, my posts are directed at the fanboys claiming this review isn't fair because a patch is coming (which many believe is a miracle patch, no I'm not talking directly at you here), just like the many other patches that came before it.  If that were the case then you couldn't review any MMO until long after it was dead.

I hope she doesn't read these replies, because it won't change how bad of a game this was.

The patch won't do anything for it. Plain and simple.  Waiting for it would have accomplished nothing except people saying "But the plans for the next patch are GREAT!"

And if it's "So improved" already....lol

"You can't please everyone" - Edmund Burke (1729-1797)

"You don't know what you got, 'til it's gone" - Ben Franklin (1706-1790)

"Enjoy what you have, not what you expect them to be" - Richard Trench (1807-1886)

Any game that relies on miracles patches isnt good to start off...

So no, even if they release 400 miracle patches the game will still suck at its core, because the problem is there, and the core of a game can't be changed without changing the  game itself..

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by Unlight

 

When a game gets released, the product is on the market and it should be your job to give your readers a fair assessment of what's been put out there, clamoring for their gaming dollars.  The kind of special treatment extended to this game only makes me wonder why an honest review was verboten all this time.  Is someone in  MMORPG's executive a big FF franchise fan?

And BOOM headshot. This is exactly why this review is coming out at a bad time. People who know nothing will take it as truth and post this ^^^. 

No they are not fans, FF fans wouldn't post something so innacurate. :/ 

Is there a better rationale for not exercising their due diligence and reviewing this title on the same type of schedule as every other?  Someone stopped a review from coming out all this time.  Someone made that call.  I just want to know why.

The game has been out a year now and SE charges for it.  How long is the review to be postponed before it's okay to evaluate it?

People can take this review and compare it to post patch and see how it's been improved, but unless the upcoming patch is a miracle patch then it won't make that huge of a difference in the evaluation.  For the rest of us (those who aren't hardcore FF fans) the review is valuable.

I would point out that STO was recently reviewed in a failry harsh light, right before an upcoming patch, and people criticised the review in a similar manner.  The patch hit, the game improved I guess, but not significantly for anyone to come point out that improvement.  If anything there were a few that pointed out it was better that the game was reviewed before because the patch was buggy.  Again, how long, how many patches, and how many updates must be issued before a game can be reviewed?

The bottom line here is that the game is released and SE is collecting revenue.  Anytime is a good time for a review at that point.  There is no reason any released title shouldn't have a review published.

Originally posted by Elidien

Originally posted by Cynthe

Originally posted by WSIMike

It's an important patch that will (ostensibly) fix and improve things that need fixing and improving. It's an important step in the right direction.

It's not a miracle patch.

I'm just going ahead and requoting that because this really should be read a few more times...XD

I would be the first to agree with that but I have to argue that - why are we cutting SE a break on this when evry other game out would be ripped to pieces if its fans "just wait until the patch improves things"?

... Who's cutting them slack?

Have you been following the reviews? The page after page after page, in thread after thread after thread where people are ripping into them? Have you not seen the myriad videos on YouTube of people ripping into them?

I've been very vocal and outspoken about the state of the game and their failure to release a complete, solid or even consistent game.

I guess anything short of wanting to see blood spilled (figuratively speaking) is "too forgiving" for some.

 

Shouldn't the game have launched with this patch? Shouldn't the game have been in this supposed better state when it launched?

Yes, it should have. But it didn't. That's why we are where we are now, SE's in "rescue mode" and not charging a sub fee.. Again, months old news. Time to catch up.

When has it become okay for a game company to launch a sub-standard product only to say "we will fix it later" and all the sudden its ok?

It hasn't become "okay". Your question is a complete strawman.

My statement is nothing more than what it says... a clarification that this upcoming patch is not a miracle patch, but a step in the right direction. Unless you care to point out to me where I say "oh come on guys... we should cut them some slack"? Or, point out where Cynthe says likewise?

Further, what choice do we have at this point but to give them time, or choose to say "forget it" and move on.

They know they fucked up. They've admitted they fucked up. They've been openly and repeatedly ripped to shreds for their fuck up. They've done what they need to do to get things on the right track. What more do you want? A public hanging? Death by firing squad?

Or is the state of the genre such that this is okay and we are lemmings running off the cliff, chasing the next big thing, willing to pay for anything in any state, with only a promise that it will get better.

Huh...?

What the hell are you going on about? I never said that. Cynthe never said that. So far as I can tell, no one - save for a very small handful of eternally optimistic folks are saying that. SE has pretty much universally been ripped a new one.

FFS... Someone said "it's a miracle patch". I said "It's an important patch. It's not a miracle patch". 

That's it. That's all I said.

I, for one, demand better and thinks a game should be in a finished and acceptable state when its launched. I do not wait for games to be fixed (games with the issues like FFXIV - somethings are acceptable and understandable). That is not being on a high-horse, that is simply demanding a quality service for the transaction involved.

So does everyone else! Again... read the reviews, read the numerous forum threads, watch the videos, follow the discussions, read the blogs... SE has been well and often taken to task for this. Who exactly do you think you're arguing against here?

I do not care when the review should have ben posted, why its posted now, what patch is coming and how its supposedly going to make the game better. FFXIV launched poorly and the critical reception (across the board) has been luke-warm at best.

Great. You don't care. Others do. People with different points of view... on the internet... imagine that.

MMORPG.com's review is just another review of a game that had potential and failed to live up to it....and that part remains true no matter when the review was written.

Did you catch the part in my response to the review when I say that whatever the future holds for the game, it can only be reviewed based upon how it is right now? You did see that part right? Did you see where I said it's a harsh but fair review? 

I do find it odd that they chose this particular time, only days before the first major update of SE's new direction with the game, to post the review. I also posited a couple different possibilities... such as doing it before the updates begin so they have a base score to compare against when they come back for the re-review.

Honestly... Some of you folks seriously need to lay down the pitchforks and relax. And while you're at it, stop reading things into people's posts that aren't there.

yep i beta tested this game briefly and was shocked that yes they still managed to have a terrible UI, which considering how bad FFXI 's was that terribad. This game though is probably worse than FFXI which is almost amazing in and of itself botton line review is spot on , just walk away ......

Originally posted by DarkVagabond

Originally posted by Naqaj

While the review completely reflects my own experience with the title, it couldn't have come at a worse time. Next week will see the release of the 1.18 patch, with massive changes to several core systems of the game. I don't really expect the game to be "good" after that, but at least "significantly better than now".

It's a bit of a waste of the reviewers time to write a review that's only valid for a week.

 ^^^^^^^^^^^^

I haven't logged in in quite some time, but this was exactly what I had to say.  I beta'd, bought the CE and while I was disappointed, I still haven't given up hope on this game.  Yeah, they rushed it out and it wasn't ready, but with the work they've put into it, it's come a long way.  With 1.18, while I don't expect it to magically fix the game, it should certainly improve it A LOT.  With all of the changes inc, I was a bit surprised to check the site today and finally see a review...  Seriously?   As a writer, why would you waste your time and write a review that's meaningless in such a short amount of time especially when the game has been out for so long now?  Sure, they put a disclaimer at the beginning of the piece, but still, seriously?

"Rumor has it that auto attack, and a serious overhaul of the combat system, is coming in the upcoming patch."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGmUoY7Gqzc&feature=player_embedded

Cya credibility.

Originally posted by kingotnw
Plus, what is with you guys re-reviewing games right before a major patch? I don't get it. Core mechanics are all changing in a couple days. One would think you guys would keep track of these.things.

Stating things are rumours, that have been posted on the official site, is another great example they don't.

I have to wonder how bad a game has to be to get below a 5.0. There have been many conversations about how scores are skewed so heavily to the top of the rating system, and yet a game that isn't even worth 14.99 to the reviewer is getting 5.1 which, if the rating system had any sense of all, would mean there is just a tad bit more right than the wrong with the game. I know that is not the case sense most games barely get below a 7 and are considered terrible but geeze... 5.1 for pretty graphics and music? This is not my opinion, this is just me reading the review and wondering how the score and the review don't reflect each other.