Originally posted by Kaijin2k3

They're not inaccuracies in my eyes as mechanically, they function exactly the same as how leves function mechanically once you go out and do them.

I suppose the rest is "agree to disagree?" Which is fine. We'll all know just how much everything is changed come this weekend anyways.

EDIT: Nevermind, I misread "doesn't" as "don't," hah hah.

The problem is that mechanically they don't play like levequests. They play like quests. IE: The quests that we've seen in every MMORPG since the inception of the genre to today.

Levequests don't play, mechanically, like the usual quests (mind you, i don't even enjoy them as much), they play somewhat similar to daily quests (even if there are differences).

I would say that when we're talking about mechanics, it's not a matter of opinion.

if X is different from Y, Z can't be equal to X AND Y.

Well, I would say the review is ill-timed, yes.  This review should have been done like a month after launch, and it should have been privy to a re-review after the upcoming patch.

Yes, I understand the game was launched too early.  For that, SE takes a major integrity hit.  But, they are on the right track.

I'm in the vast minority here, but I love the game.  It's probably because of my attitude going in.  I knew that with any SE (specially FF ip) game, you have to do research and study things.  That's not everyone's cup of tea.

Some BS rumors:

There is no content outside of leves - There absolutely is.  It's basically the same as FFXI, you can form grind parties in the exact same way.  You have to understand how the SP (fancy term for exp) system works, which apparently no one does.  Some mobs are better than others.  Find the good ones, and they net faster SP than leves.  Not sure why this was "awesome" in FFXI but sucks here... oh well.  Not to mention an actual storyline, and class (guild quests).  Rank 50 is where the content dries up, and yes, they have no endgame. 

The patch is only adding auto-attack - False, they are adding many, many features from new dungeons, to a new mission system, reform of guildleves, SP adjustments, and so on.

There is no AH - The Market Wards are now searchable by catagory, and are roughly identical to the FFXI system.  The only difference is you have to run to an NPC to get your stuff.  Not sure why people have a huge problem with that, I remember in SWG having to travel across an entire planet to get gear.

I also don't get the UI problems.  It's pretty simple and straightforward if you ask me - I'm simply not experiencing all of the problems people describe.  I'm just not.  Maybe it's because I have a good PC and a fast connection?  Dunno, but it's actually easier to use than FFXI to me - and you don't have to tie everything to a macro the way you did in XI.

As for travel, you can freakin teleport.  Sorry there's no airships, but I'd rather take an instant teleport anyway.  You only have to run to an area once.   Yes, you have to manage Anima, but I've been playing since launch basically and have never run out.  I guess I just actually think about things before I click "Yes."  You can also get a ride from other party members for 0 anima, set favored locations, and use return for 1 anima - guess people just don't like planning.

7/10 on graphics, right before saying the game is "stunning" makes no sense.  He says he lowers it for the UI??  Isn't that gameplay?

Anyway, the game gets a bad rap.  Seems all the people talking trash either never played it, blayed it during beta, or played it shortly after launch.  Don't get me wrong, releasing an unfinished product is not forgivable, but it's in the past and they are doing what they can to fix it.

Gotta disagree with the innovation score as well.  I guess he feels that they failed at their innovations... but there is a lot going on in this game that is new and different.

Anyway, play it or dont.  Besaid (server) has a high population, there's always something to do, and people are having fun.  Not sure about the others.  As I said, there is no endgame - but I'm sure there will be.  I'd give it a 7/10 honestly, considering the 8s and 9s this site throws around like candy.  It's not perfect, but it's not crap, and on this site apparently a 6/10 is crap and 8/10 is amazing.

So when should they have reviewed it:

When it launched? "Oh wait, it needs work...give it more time."

Now? "Oh wait, the miracle patch is coming...give it more time."

Next week? "Bugs from the miracle patch.....give it more time."

-----

You get the idea. People have been asking for a FFXIV review for months now and now that its here and its not what the fanboia wanted, its simply "the wrong time". Sorry it does not work like that. The game did not live up to expectations and has some serious issues. More time will not change this and by now, unless someone is a major FF fan, it does not matter anyway as they have moved on.

And a miracle patch ranks up there with the Loch ness monster, Big Foot and the Chupacabra....its been talked about a lot, people think it exists but sadly it doesn't.

Originally posted by Abriael

Originally posted by Kaijin2k3

They're not inaccuracies in my eyes as mechanically, they function exactly the same as how leves function mechanically once you go out and do them.

I suppose the rest is "agree to disagree?" Which is fine. We'll all know just how much everything is changed come this weekend anyways.

EDIT: Nevermind, I misread "doesn't" as "don't," hah hah.

The problem is that mechanically they don't play like levequests. They play like quests. IE: The quests that we've seen in every MMORPG since the inception of the genre to today.

Levequests don't play, mechanically, like the usual quests (mind you, i don't even enjoy them as much), they play somewhat similar to daily quests (even if there are differences).

I would say that when we're talking about mechanics, it's not a matter of opinion.

if X is different from Y, Z can't be equal to X AND Y.

To do a levequest, you go to the levequest counter NPC and select one. You then go to the designated camp, activate it, and then go to the yellow zones on your map. You kill the mobs or gather the drops, and you're done.

For many of the combat side quest, you go to an NPC that's not at the levequest counter. You then go to the yellow marked areas, your mobs spawn, and you kill them. You then return and "quest complete."

The only parts that are skipped are "go to the camp and activate the levequest." The actual combat and mobs we face is functionally no different than what we've doing in leves all this time.

This is what I've experienced, and why to me, they are really no different than levequests. The only positive is that the NPC say a little more something of the world. 

I HOPE the overhaul to them in 1.18 is great, but I'm not hyping myself up to it. I hope I'm more clear now?

Exactly Abriael, as I said earlier SIDE quests are there for story mostly right as of this moment, later on there will be reward. But their primary function is to provide something for the player to experience and enjoy aside from the main missions. I think that function should still be the prime objective for these, though as a casual player I seriously welcome greater rewards for them as well. 

Leves are a great way to level, but they don't really offer much in the way of story but that's okay because that's not their function. I can't say what I feel about their refocus on solo play, they really should have given info on what would replace group leveling too... 

edit: @ Kaijin. That's like the foundation of games in general,  get objective >>> kill stuff >>> get conclusion/reward. 

You might as well say there's no difference between ANY type of game as well while you're at it. 

Originally posted by Cynthe

edit: @ Kaijin. That's like the foundation of games in general,  get objective >>> kill stuff >>> get conclusion/reward. 

You might as well say there's no difference between ANY type of game as well while you're at it. 

Except the way they've been implemented, you don't really get any meaninful reward. As I've repeated, I hope the 1.18 changes make these more awesome, but I'm not hyping myself to that.

Originally posted by Elidien

So when should they have reviewed it:

When it launched? "Oh wait, it needs work...give it more time."

Now? "Oh wait, the miracle patch is coming...give it more time."

Next week? "Bugs from the miracle patch.....give it more time."

-----

You get the idea. People have been asking for a FFXIV review for months now and now that its here and its not what the fanboia wanted, its simply "the wrong time". Sorry it does not work like that. The game did not live up to expectations and has some serious issues. More time will not change this and by now, unless someone is a major FF fan, it does not matter anyway as they have moved on.

And a miracle patch ranks up there with the Loch ness monster, Big Foot and the Chupacabra....its been talked about a lot, people think it exists but sadly it doesn't.

Miracle patches don't exist. What does exist is constant work in the right direction, which SE already shown so far, and more of which will come with the next patch and the couple after that.

Several MMORPGs have seen the fruit of that kind of improvements, and there's absolutely no reason to believe that FFXIV won't. Sentences like "more time will not change this" are simply silly, and untrue. Time changes MMORPGs, even quite radically, and that has been proven again and again in the history of the genre.

When they should have reviewed it? Either immediately (pending enough time to experience the game at a half decent level), or AFTER some of the patches that introduce radical changes that warrant a review. Or both.

That's what journalists that want their reviews to be relevant (and have a little bit of integrity) normally do.

Otherwise you have something like this review, that's already quite inaccurate, and will be completely inaccurante and irrelevant in four days. {mod edit}

Originally posted by Elidien

So when should they have reviewed it:

When it launched? "Oh wait, it needs work...give it more time."

Now? "Oh wait, the miracle patch is coming...give it more time."

Next week? "Bugs from the miracle patch.....give it more time."

-----

You get the idea. People have been asking for a FFXIV review for months now and now that its here and its not what the fanboia wanted, its simply "the wrong time". Sorry it does not work like that. The game did not live up to expectations and has some serious issues. More time will not change this and by now, unless someone is a major FF fan, it does not matter anyway as they have moved on.

And a miracle patch ranks up there with the Loch ness monster, Big Foot and the Chupacabra....its been talked about a lot, people think it exists but sadly it doesn't.

Doing a review 1 week before a major game changing patch is bad timing, sorry it just is.  That applies to any game.  The site should be more aware of what is going on in the games they review.

It should have been reviewed right after launch like any other game, regardless of the "give it more time" arguement.  This site should have the integrity to do a review when the game comes out.  It should have had patch reviews just like any other game.  It should have been subject to re-review after the big patch.  Not saying it would have scored any higher, but seriously this is just ill-informed nonsense.  It's mind boggling how disconnected this site is sometimes - people look to them for up-to-date info about their games.  This type of thing makes it seem like they aren't even paying attention.

If anything, this should have been an article about the upcoming changes to the game, and what we can anticipate.  This site hasn't even adressed that.  WoW gets a total review of what's coming up in 4.2, this game gets a review 10 months after release that is full of innacuracy?  Give me a break.  Instead they add a disclaimer about "games always getting patched."  Seriously... I mean... seriously?  For the love of god pay attention to what you are doing.

Tanaka designed leve quests as the main part of the "content" for the game.  Sorta like "rifts" are the primary means by which Rift delivers content.

Unlike Tanaka, who played FFXI as his only MMO, Yoshi-P has plaed DAOC (5 years), Everquest, World of Warcraft, and plans on playing Rift.

Yoshi-P has said on the record that it was "wrong" to make leves the main-stay of FFXIV.  Leves will now be primarily for people who want to solo and rank up.  The game is shifting to a new type of content (dungeon's, grind parties, group quests, raid-boss's [Ifrit Battle], etc.).  Chocobos and Airships are coming in 1.19.  And a continuation of the combat overhaul by end of September.

FFXIV that Tanaka developed and the one that Yoshi-P is developing will be similar in name only.

It is such a horrible slap in the face to the new dev team to REVIEW Tanaka's FFXIV, 10 months after release, without waiting 4 days, to see Yoshi-P's game.   The substantive changes that Yoshi-P's team has been working on for 6 months are completely missing from this review.  

The "worth" of this review expires in 4 days.  Even if 1.18 is horrendeous, this current review is still innacurate because it does not incorporate the changes. 

Here are two reasons why the review came out now:

1.  They want to have a review out for Tanaka's FFXIV so that they can do a Re-Review for Yoshi-P's changes.

2.  The reviewer is sooo out of the loop with FFXIV that he/she released the review not even knowing the biggest patch in FFXIV'S history is scheduled to be released in 4 days.

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

Originally posted by Delsus1

Originally posted by lthompson94

Doing a review 1 week before a major game changing patch is bad timing, sorry it just is.  That applies to any game.  The site should be more aware of what is going on in the games they review.

It should have been reviewed right after launch like any other game, regardless of the "give it more time" arguement.  This site should have the integrity to do a review when the game comes out.  It should have had patch reviews just like any other game.  It should have been subject to re-review after the big patch.  Not saying it would have scored any higher, but seriously this is just ill-informed nonsense.  It's mind boggling how disconnected this site is sometimes - people look to them for up-to-date info about their games.  This type of thing makes it seem like they aren't even paying attention.

 

{mod edit}

I disagree with people questioning the integrity of the site or the person writing the review.  I only disagree with the timing, I think it's unfair to question someone's personal credibility just because you disagree with the review.  That's a little step too far for my taste.

Originally posted by ZizouX

Originally posted by Delsus1

Originally posted by lthompson94

Doing a review 1 week before a major game changing patch is bad timing, sorry it just is.  That applies to any game.  The site should be more aware of what is going on in the games they review.

It should have been reviewed right after launch like any other game, regardless of the "give it more time" arguement.  This site should have the integrity to do a review when the game comes out.  It should have had patch reviews just like any other game.  It should have been subject to re-review after the big patch.  Not saying it would have scored any higher, but seriously this is just ill-informed nonsense.  It's mind boggling how disconnected this site is sometimes - people look to them for up-to-date info about their games.  This type of thing makes it seem like they aren't even paying attention.

 

I agree with this, it is extreamly shortsighted to review a game 4 days before the first big patch, the only reason I can imagine they did this is because SE havent given them any money so they wanna damage SE as much as they can. This website is no longer reputable and as the reviewer said people shouldnt get FFXIV, no one should buy a game based on the out of date information on this website. Biased revieweres should be fired on the spot

I disagree with people questioning the integrity of the site or the person writing the review.  I only disagree with the timing, I think it's unfair to question someone's personal credibility just because you disagree with the review.  That's a little step too far for my taste.

The timing is a direct line to their credibility/integrity.  The reviewer did absolutely no research, and fails to mention the state of the game being drastically changed.  They provided half of the information.  It has nothing to do with me "disagreeing with the review." It has everything to do with them simply blowing it - writing a review that will be invalid in 4 days.  In other words, people in 5 days will read this review thinking that this is what the game is.  It will not be.  That's lack of integrity.  It would be another thing entirely if they just stepped up to the plate and reviewed this major release (and it is a major release) after it was launched in a timely manner.  Now, someone next week will say, "gee, what's this game all about?  Wellthis was writeen last week, must be accurate," and it won't be.

Think what you want, that's your opinion... but the timing, which you said you disagree with, is what causes everyone to say these things.  Its a blatant tell on not putting in any effort to deliver accurate data.   If anything, this should have been an article on the upcoming changes, something an informed site/reviewer would have done.

Originally posted by ZizouX

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

They gave their reasons back in December.  See Stradden's post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3939510#3939510

Originally posted by ZizouX

Originally posted by Delsus1

Originally posted by lthompson94

Doing a review 1 week before a major game changing patch is bad timing, sorry it just is.  That applies to any game.  The site should be more aware of what is going on in the games they review.

It should have been reviewed right after launch like any other game, regardless of the "give it more time" arguement.  This site should have the integrity to do a review when the game comes out.  It should have had patch reviews just like any other game.  It should have been subject to re-review after the big patch.  Not saying it would have scored any higher, but seriously this is just ill-informed nonsense.  It's mind boggling how disconnected this site is sometimes - people look to them for up-to-date info about their games.  This type of thing makes it seem like they aren't even paying attention.

 

{mod edit}

I disagree with people questioning the integrity of the site or the person writing the review.  I only disagree with the timing, I think it's unfair to question someone's personal credibility just because you disagree with the review.  That's a little step too far for my taste.

 

The reviewer or the site should have known there will be a patch in 4 days and thought they should hold off to see what is in the patch, if the reviewer submitted this review the people who run the site should have refused put it up, anyone who thinks 4 days before the first big patch is shortsighted and shows they dont read official sources, they even said auto attack was a rumour when theres  a damn  developer video, and if the reviewer and people that run the site doesnt even read the direct information from the producer then thier integrity is a problem, we have this information for a reason.

I stand by my point that it was because SE havent given this website money they reviewed it now. Give me one good reason that it was reviewed 4 damn days before the first big patch and not "its 10 months" wait 4 damn days.

Originally posted by Shoju

Originally posted by ZizouX

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

They gave their reasons back in December.  See Stradden's post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3939510#3939510

It's not up to this site to decide when a game is ready.  When it's released, it's their duty to write a review and inform player what is happening in a major title.  That's what they do.   When a game changes in a major way that will effect the entire gameplay strata, again, it is their duty to write a review, or provide an update.  It's called journalistic integrity, but who am I kidding.

They gave the game almost 1 year to mature into something better and that is more then fair, i might be wrong but highly doubt the next patch will turn this game from bad to good.

I have not playd it as i waited some befor buying this game, but after all that have been said about this game i would never thouch it even if it was free.

Originally posted by Shoju

Originally posted by ZizouX

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

They gave their reasons back in December.  See Stradden's post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3939510#3939510

 

That is just stupid, why couldnt they have done the review in the last 3 months we have been waiting for this patch rather than wait till 4 days before the patch, it makes no damn sense

Originally posted by ZizouX

I disagree with people questioning the integrity of the site or the person writing the review.  I only disagree with the timing, I think it's unfair to question someone's personal credibility just because you disagree with the review.  That's a little step too far for my taste.

gaming journalism isn't a responsibility-free job (if you're interested about my full opinion on this matter, i actually wrote an article about it a while ago: here )

When you go public, especially if you go public about the someone else's work, you have quite a big responsibility weighing on your shoulders. This responsibility includes being as clear cut as possible to avoid suspicion about possible ulterior motives.

To be honest it's very, very easy to see an ulterior motive behind this review. The timing is simply too screwed up, and it adds up to the hyperbolically negative tones of the article itself (it sounds more like a random blogger's rant than an factually relevant review). Hyperbole + bad timing are a very bad indicator on a MMORPG review, and seem to hint on an interest on the writer/publisher's side tho place a hit against the hype formed by the upcoming patches.

So yeah. The writer/publisher of this poor excuse for a review decided to go public with this timing and this hyperbolic tones. I'd say there's little to complain is suspicion arises.

Originally posted by Shoju

Originally posted by ZizouX

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

They gave their reasons back in December.  See Stradden's post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3939510#3939510

"It's not ready for a review," was their answer.

So when the new developer, who took over in January, says that it takes a 6 month development cycle to see substantive changes in the game, and when the same developer says the big changes will occur 1.18-1.20 (July 21 - End of September), MMORPG decides to do a review 4 days before those changes are realized?

If you read the lodestone (FFXIV official website), it would be obvious that the biggest changes to FFXIV are occuring in the next 3 months.  To review it at this point reall shows that the reviewer had no idea what was going on.

For example, saying auto-attack is a rumor is blatantly false.  WE new about auto-attack as being definete more than a month ago.

Originally posted by Shoju

Originally posted by ZizouX

Regardless, there's no excuse for this review.  It's poor sportsmenship at best.  Either review a game a month after its release, or let people know you're holding out for X reason.  There's no justification offered for why the review would be released at this point.

They gave their reasons back in December.  See Stradden's post:

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3939510#3939510

Sooooo wait, they decide that NOW is a good time though? How in the hell does that even compute? Mere days before 1.18, a month or two before 1.19? BEFORE a monthly fee has been added and the game declared ready for 'relaunch'?? 

That makes no damned sense unless they had another reason OR they really are that incompetent OR uncaring about this game. 

First people complain that they want a review for this game.

THEN people complain when they get a review for their game that isn't good.

THEN the same people say "Why did you review this, it's about to have the miracle patch".

After the miracle patch they will say "Wait for the next patch, that review doesn't take into account all the changes they are saying will take place".

In the end, MMORPG can't win.  This game has been out for a year now.  The miracle patches have yet to hit in that time.  In FACT, there are a score of MAJOR MMO's coming out on the market soon enough.  The fact that SE STILL isn't charging for this tells you how they REALLY feel.

You may enjoy the game, good for you.  But questioning the integrity of a reviewer on a site who was NICE enough to hold review for this long and GENERALLY conforms to every other review out there.  I'm sorry, but that screams of fanboism.

Have a good day.

EDIT:  ZOMG, look one post above mine.  The miracle 1.8 is coming out, then a miracle 1.9 2 months after that!  I can predict te future.. it's like I have ESP-N or something :-P