I'm pretty unconcerned what system game developers use as the primary form of action. It could be more tactical or more twitch based or whatever else. The only issue is that until you get into time sucking raids there's almost no challenge from the MMO games thare are out there now. Some games do a reasonably good job of offering exciting PvP but PvE is going to be an important focal point of 98% of MMORPGs. Yet I feel like a zombie as I mindlessly kill, kill, kill.

Does anyone else feel like the lack of challenge is a big bummer in MMORPG land?

The guys who made Dark Souls needs to make an MMO.  

Hmm...

It's not all bad. I'm currently playing EVE and it's all so fresh and new to me, completely different from anything else I've ever played and I'm loving it. And if I hadn't played it for almost 2 years, I'd still be playing Darkfall too, I'm waiting for the relaunch before i resub again.

You've just gotta try find the right game that suits you.

The thing that pisses me off about the MMO genre is the fact that as time goes on, they're becoming less and less "persistant world do what you want", and more static "raid an instance repeat repeat repeat, all PvP instanced no massive wars, no risk in death".

Honestly if you really are up for a challenge and a persistant world, Darkfall or EVE. Take your pick.

Unless you're one of them who doesn't like open PK that is.

I agree.  I want a challenge.  My recent thoughts with MMOs is to create my character and the only goal I have in mind is to get to max level without dying.  I don't think it would be very hard.

EVE has a good chance to be just what you are looking for.

Check out Dragon Nest in whatever area you live in. Twitch style combat with what seems to be awesome pvp.

EVE = PvP = Not my flavor.

I agree with you. It seems anymore all fantasy MMORPG focus on end game with dungeons being the only challenge. It would be nice if a MMO would focus on the journey and end game outdoor PVE for a change with a challenge to boot. 

The thing about PVE is once someone has "beaten" it, the word gets out and everyone just follows steps and does the same thing. The only challenging thing about mmo's are pvp since generally most scenarios are never the same. Make pve encounters where you fight a human controlled "boss"