Originally posted by cybertrucker

I agree with so many in this post. I have spent over 9 years of my life playing SOE games. EQ1 6 years, EQ2 on and off for a year, Vanguard 2+ years. So I am not going to sit here and bash a company who has made so many of the games I have loved. I do however they have stumbled along the way and made bad decisions.

For all the people here who believe that SOE is in it only for the money. Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word. I am a business owner myself and if I am doing something that is not profitable I change what it is i am doing to make it profitable, regardless if I want to or not. I dont blame SOE for making changes to games that are failing. However like any business venture, changes can also be risky of changing the wrong direction. I will not sit here however and say that SOE and its team of devs have lost their love for gaming and are only in it for the money though, because that is a load of bull. They do have to balance that love of gaming and game creation with being able to maintain profitibility. Anyone that gets mad at them for that has to be a retarded liberal that believes all big business is bad.

Agreed. Someone else who 'gets it'.

I think you have to actually be in business to understand it.

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word.

No, but profteering is.

I personally believe SOE fall into the latter in their approach to their games.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by korvass

To be fair, you probably have no real idea about their corporate structure, right? And 'insidious'? They're not terrorists or the CIA, dude. :)

 

Like I said in another thread, SOE are experts at one thing... slow boiling their frogs.

'Insidious' is a good word for them.

Depends on the way you look at the word, 'insidious', I guess.

Redemption does not come in the form of a good game, Bill.  I usually agree with a good deal of what your write.  This one though, I'm going to disagree with you on.

Redemption has to come from the CEO and his cronies.  He has to acknowledge his horrible business decisions (and no, I don't consider his double talk about the NGE an acknowledgement) with DCUO, SWG, and Vanguard.  He and his little money grubbers should step forward, be attached to lie detectors, and openly apologize to the entire customer base of SOE for what they did.  And then each and every one of them be fired right there.

Will this happen?  Of course not.  And I know it won't.  Of course what I just wrote was a bit far fetched.  At least the lie detector part.  I know John Smedley will not step forward and apologize for a damned thing.  Why?  He doesn't care.  He's a scheming, kiniving, self-centered corporate fat cat that thinks we as customers are far too stupid to know what we like.  Now why won't they fire him?  I can give you a VERY GOOD estimated guess why they won't fire him.  His severence package will be triple or quadruple what he makes now.  And I'm talking like 20-75 million dollars (it could be even more or less) and probably a few million each year, or a few hundred thousand.  Basically he will live off the interest.  That kind of severance package will badly hurt Sony.  And they don't want to pay that much to him.

 It's really a catch-22.  He's costing SoE money by staying, and he'll cost them alot of money if he's fired.  It's a no win situation.  It hurts both customers and the parent company.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word.

 

No, but profteering is.

I personally believe SOE fall into the latter in their approach to their games.

You're naturally entitled to that belief, of course, but consider this:

Isn't every individual or company guilty of profiteering, considering the definition of profiteering is making money using methods that could be deemed to be unethical? There will always be someone who disagrees with your ethics.

I don't believe SoE are unethical in their business practises. I just don't think they're doing a particularly good job at what they made they were set up for, and what they made their name from.

Originally posted by misles

Redemption does not come in the form of a good game, Bill.  I usually agree with a good deal of what your write.  This one though, I'm going to disagree with you on.

Redemption has to come from the CEO and his cronies.  He has to acknowledge his horrible business decisions (and no, I don't consider his double talk about the NGE an acknowledgement) with DCUO, SWG, and Vanguard.  He and his little money grubbers should step forward, be attached to lie detectors, and openly apologize to the entire customer base of SOE for what they did.  And then each and every one of them be fired right there.

Will this happen?  Of course not.  And I know it won't.  Of course what I just wrote was a bit far fetched.  At least the lie detector part.  I know John Smedley will not step forward and apologize for a damned thing.  Why?  He doesn't care.  He's a scheming, kiniving, self-centered corporate fat cat that thinks we as customers are far too stupid to know what we like.  Now why won't they fire him?  I can give you a VERY GOOD estimated guess why they won't fire him.  His severence package will be triple or quadruple what he makes now.  And I'm talking like 20-75 million dollars (it could be even more or less) and probably a few million each year, or a few hundred thousand.  Basically he will live off the interest.  That kind of severance package will badly hurt Sony.  And they don't want to pay that much to him.

 It's really a catch-22.  He's costing SoE money by staying, and he'll cost them alot of money if he's fired.  It's a no win situation.  It hurts both customers and the parent company.

Yeah, but this is the nature of all modern corporations. Upper management never gets fired, it just gets moved sideways.

Take, for example, the big stink regarding the News of the World newspaper, and it's sudden shutdown after near a couple hundred years. According to known information, there was one person who was out of that entire team that was around when the hacking incidents allegedly occurred. Guess what? She's still the boss. Everyone else got fired.

So that makes SoE exactly the same as any other corporation, or corporate division.

SoE really isn't the Devil, kids, they just kinda suck. ;)

They’re the company that helped make this whole industry into something more than MUDs and it’s time people remembered that over the NGE of Star Wars Galaxies.

You are absolutely correct on this, Bill. It is time to people remember SOE for promising DCUO subscribers to fix bugs, hacks and exploits as well as MONTHLY content to justify their monthly subscription rates. Oh and then selling them content as addons most likely paid for by those subs.  Much WIN to be found there.

Seriously, I was an EQ beta tester. They have that game and moment in history as a jewel in their crown. But that crown doesn't belong to this modern day SOE. This one is known for shoddy updates, terrible customer service, buggy games and well damn near contempt for the customer. And yes, they are laughed at by their rivals. All of which would be jealous as hell for the titles and opportunities that SOE has had a chance with. SOE squandered those chances and seemingly continues to inflict punishment on their fanbase.

As for this game, I'd wager it is the last chance SOE has to right its ship before there is a changeup. Screw this one up, SOE and there will be much rebuilding. Assimilated with SCEA perhaps... who knows. Hopefully, SOE knows this and puts its honest and true effort into it from start to publish and beyond. This isn't their track record but hey, the stakes have changed.

Im looking forward to this game as i have grown bored of the regular mmo games.

SoE have made some of the best mmo games i have playd over the years, sure they stumble some but thats how this work.

All game creators mess up, how much they mess up is personal prefferance. I think COD missed the target on modern warfare2 it was inferior to warfare1 but millions obvious disagree with me on this part.

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word.

 

No, but profteering is.

I personally believe SOE fall into the latter in their approach to their games.

You're naturally entitled to that belief, of course, but consider this:

Isn't every individual or company guilty of profiteering, considering the definition of profiteering is making money using methods that could be deemed to be unethical? There will always be someone who disagrees with your ethics.

I don't believe SoE are unethical in their business practises. I just don't think they're doing a particularly good job at what they made they were set up for, and what they made their name from.

I believe that SOE have made promise and broken them repeatedly, especially concerning their cash shop. This is unethical behaviour to me.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word.

 

No, but profteering is.

I personally believe SOE fall into the latter in their approach to their games.

You're naturally entitled to that belief, of course, but consider this:

Isn't every individual or company guilty of profiteering, considering the definition of profiteering is making money using methods that could be deemed to be unethical? There will always be someone who disagrees with your ethics.

I don't believe SoE are unethical in their business practises. I just don't think they're doing a particularly good job at what they made they were set up for, and what they made their name from.

 

I believe that SOE have made promise and broken them repeatedly, especially concerning their cash shop. This is unethical behaviour to me.

Fair enough, mate. But as customers, we don't really know the reason for changes to those 'promises'. Most of those have probably been plans, not specific promises.

Either way, I'm sure we agree that they're not on top of their game, as we see it. So let's not quibble about terms and definitions.

Here, have a Thursday beer!

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by korvass

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by cybertrucker

Well for starters Profit isnt a dirty word.

 

No, but profteering is.

I personally believe SOE fall into the latter in their approach to their games.

You're naturally entitled to that belief, of course, but consider this:

Isn't every individual or company guilty of profiteering, considering the definition of profiteering is making money using methods that could be deemed to be unethical? There will always be someone who disagrees with your ethics.

I don't believe SoE are unethical in their business practises. I just don't think they're doing a particularly good job at what they made they were set up for, and what they made their name from.

 

I believe that SOE have made promise and broken them repeatedly, especially concerning their cash shop. This is unethical behaviour to me.

Fair enough, mate. But as customers, we don't really know the reason for changes to those 'promises'. Most of those have probably been plans, not specific promises.

Either way, I'm sure we agree that they're not on top of their game, as we see it. So let's not quibble about terms and definitions.

Here, have a Thursday beer!

Cheers :)

I think planetside 2 has excellent potential to be a game I could play and many others would enjoy

I just hope they stick to the original set up of planetside and stay away from metagamer features like orbital strikes or what have you.

I'd rather be able to fight my enemy than worry about some orbiting "space ship" / "rail gun" i am unable to attack.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Daffid011

Respect is something that is earned, not owed.

 

 

I am sorry but I don't subscribe to the perspective at all.

I go into every situation with respect for the other party as a given, they can then lose it based on what they say or do. Initially though, everyone gets respect. It's a alien way of thinking to me to consider strangers who have 'not earned it' not worthy of respect.

SOE, though, lost mine a long time ago as a company, though they accidentally get it right sometimes. If PS2 is good,and I mean GOOD, then great, SOE may well restore some of that lost respect in my eyes.

Sorry I was responding to earlier statements that SOE is somehow deserved more respect for something they did 10 years ago.  Respect is most certainly something that can be lost and that is the situation SOE is in. 

I totally agree with what you say even if it might not have come out that way.

Edit:  @vesavius below

It was my poor wording, not you misreading anything.  My apologies.

Planetside was a decent game.  Will Planetside 2 redeem SOE? No.  EQ Next will make or break SOE.  I'm surprised they have yet to say more about it, especially since they JUST had a fan faire.  Everquest is where most of the SOE customer loyalty comes from.  It's really the only title that SOE didn't COMPLETELY shit on.  I say completely because most of us know that EQ was a better game back when Verant had the rights and called all the shots.  SOE shit on SWG, Vanguard, blah blah blah, so on and so forth.  

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Daffid011

Respect is something that is earned, not owed.

 

 

I am sorry but I don't subscribe to the perspective at all.

I go into every situation with respect for the other party as a given, they can then lose it based on what they say or do. Initially though, everyone gets respect. It's a alien way of thinking to me to consider strangers who have 'not earned it' not worthy of respect.

SOE, though, lost mine a long time ago as a company, though they accidentally get it right sometimes. If PS2 is good,and I mean GOOD, then great, SOE may well restore some of that lost respect in my eyes.

Sorry I was responding to earlier statements that SOE is somehow deserved more respect for something they did 10 years ago.  Respect is most certainly something that can be lost and that is the situation SOE is in. 

I totally agree with what you say even if it might not have come out that way.

ok sorry, sorry to have misread you :)

Sorry Mr Murphy, but the revolutionary company you remember doesn't exist anymore. So that argument is a moot point. It would make as much sense for me to say that the Chicago Bears will make it to the superbowl this year based only on how well they did back in 1985. So please stop trying to wrangle guilt and sympathy for this company from those of us who watched them turn their company from a dream factory into a crap factory.

SOE remains a company with creative talent with good ideas, but said creative talent is contuinually hamstrung by the mysteriously handy capable managment team. Until SOE chops some dead wood out of the top of the tree I cannot get excited about any project they announce. Until they prove with their actions that they can make a good game without chopping its feet off the second they release it into the wild, I'm going to continue to take their "We have a new game" announcements with about the same seriousness as Blackadder did Baldric every time he announced "I have a cunning plan".

Despite my negative Stance towards SOE

I still hold  their IP, Planetside, above the rest of the crop, Dust 514, firefall, defiance, tribes universe, earthrise, world war 2 online, Mars war, Global Agenda, APB and the rest of the "So called"  MMOFPS' that boil down to nothing more than a Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product, which i dare say, SOME of the next so-called mmofps's will continue with their Cash shopped, Arena Base 16 v 16 lobby match product.

Try those games, and then try PS 1 to see a difference in formula and scale.

Not going to sit here waving a I hate SOE flag while ignoring their continued attempt to venture into things that dont involve a wizard robe/ wizard hat and a  epic rod of Forsoothe +5.

Originally posted by korvass

Nice little article, Bill. Cheers.

This was good, too:

"They’re the company that helped make this whole industry into something more than MUDs and it’s time people remembered that over the NGE of Star Wars Galaxies."

Sometimes, I wish more people would remember this, and give them a little more respect.

Perhaps because it's difficult to "remember" revisionist history.

UO and Meridian59 would both like to have a word with the author about getting his timeline straight.

I think it's naive to suggest that SoE's abyssmal reputation stems entirely from SWG/NGE.  The Ca$h $hop had a lot to do with the first major exodus of customers from SoE, for example.

But sure, SoE could repair their rep.  Just deliver what's promised, every once in a while.  You might start with DCUO, I hear that that content isn't being delivered in either quality or quantity or on schedule as promised in May.

Can P2 redeem SOE? Yes, I think so. It would have to be a freaking amazing game and they'd need to funnel ALL of their development efforts towards this as well as keeping the ball moving post-launch.

Will P2 redeem SOE? I doubt it. I don't think SOE has shown that sort of committment to most of their games.  I think P2 will be mediocre with a small harcore group of fans.

They are has beens.  Arrogant, misguided/misdirected has beens.  That's why they are where they are today.  I owe them nothing, having paid them over a $1 thousand dollars and then being told they didn't want my business.  So it's a little hard to appreciate their contributions when they do not appreciate the people that made it happen.

I would not be so quick to dismiss the NGE either.  It epitomizes just what SOE thinks of their customers, and nothing they have done has disproven this since.