Trending Games | ArcheAge | World of Warcraft | Elder Scrolls Online | Star Wars: The Old Republic

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,923,391 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,316,191
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

General Discussion

General Discussion 

News & Features Discussion  » General: Excerpts from the F2P Hater Handbook

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search
113 posts found
  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5212

7/12/11 7:10:47 PM#61

Pretty easy to get the upper hand in an argument when you get to present both sides. Don't forget to villify your opponents and play victim. Cash shop games have one incontrovertable flaw. To make money they have to not only separate people from their money but make them pay enough for all of the deadbeats to play too. Talk about your transfer of wealth. The alternative, making an enjoyable game so people will pay a nominal fee to play it gladly is unthinkable. It's not hate, it's contempt.


"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  maplestone

Novice Member

Joined: 12/10/08
Posts: 3109

7/12/11 7:31:01 PM#62

The more I see of the F2P/itemshop industry and its effect on gaming, the more my attitude hardens into a blunt "kill it with fire"


  User Deleted
7/12/11 7:36:03 PM#63
Originally posted by Ceridith
 

I could ask you similarly: why does it matter to you why others dislike cash shops or F2P games?

Most people who dislike cashshops and/or F2P just avoid such MMOs. In fact most of those people who don't like F2P don't spend time ranting about how they dislike cash shops and/or F2P until something or someone provokes them.

People have different preferences in what they want an MMO to be. Some people like F2P, some don't. Articles like Mr. Aihoshi's do nothing but bait people into arguments over personal preference. It's not productive, and personally I'd report some of Aihosi's articles as trolling/flame-baiting if I could.

Too true.

Ultimatly when the government starts wanting to tax these "digital" vanity items because of their monetary value, i will be there pushing for this bill to pass.

One sub, one world.

 

PS: Demo's or limited versions of MMOs is a great way to get people leary of purchase to try your product.  Does not make it a F2P or Freemium game. Anymore then Warcraft is now a f2p or freemium game now with their unlimited trial.

  travamars

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 452

7/12/11 11:51:07 PM#64

I like f2p, lets just understand that.....

but I cant believe this guy gets paid to write this crap. It's always the same thing about once a month, he takes cheap shots at people that dont like f2p.

And if you try to give your opinion your labeled a hater, or banned from this site.

Can they not find a guy better educated that knows something interesting to say about f2p.

I found a handbook called "Suckup shills for f2p" ....want me to read that?

  Grunty

Hard Core Member

Joined: 4/06/04
Posts: 6933

7/12/11 11:55:58 PM#65

75 posts and 2700 views within 26 hours of the original article says Richard is doing what he's supposed to do.

  biplex

Novice Member

Joined: 11/04/04
Posts: 276

7/13/11 12:00:38 AM#66

Richard, you had some good texts here, but this one is not one of them. This is the most unprofessional and biased post and totaly farfetched i ever seen by mmorpg editors.I do not like f2p games, really. Sad part it is something we won't escape that. F2P and freemium models are so attractive to game companies there won't be P2P games made soon :( So stop crying - it will be your way in a couple of years anyway, and we will be left with nothing to play... 


http://www.teraonline.info.pl Polski Poradnik Gry Tera Online

  User Deleted
7/13/11 12:07:29 AM#67

Why are people getting angry over satire when everything he says is just an exaggeration of what anti-F2P people say and do? He didn't say all do these things, but the most vocal of them sure as heck do.


  User Deleted
7/13/11 12:18:18 AM#68
Originally posted by DarkPony

Also you missed the most important chapter: "F2P breaks my immershunz";

1. an item shop often ends up looking and feeling like intrusive advertising in game

 

2. being able to get stuff for your character out of non-ingame sources is a gross violation of the "rp" bit in "mmorpg"

 

Actually, DarkPony, the item I highlighted is a very valid reason to not like it. I play games to play games, coincidentally enough, not to have advertising thrown up in my face at seemingly any opportunity they can find to "Visit the cash shop!"

That shouldn't be a sarcastic point at all (assuming you meant it that way).

For #2, again... goes back to the point of playing a game. Being able to get individual items in-game using outside resources (ie. real world money) undermines the point of playing a game in the first place and, yes, distracts from what one is - presumably - logged into the game to do which is, again, to play the game.

There's nothing to be sarcastic about in those two items - even if you might disagree. They are two valid issues.

To put it plainly...  I play games to experience, enjoy and, yes, immerse myself in the gameplay experience. I log in to be distracted by in-game advertisements or having to worry about "oh shit, I need to purchase more Cash Shop credits..."

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15983

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/13/11 12:18:52 AM#69
Originally posted by travamars

I like f2p, lets just understand that.....

but I cant believe this guy gets paid to write this crap. It's always the same thing about once a month, he takes cheap shots at people that dont like f2p.

And if you try to give your opinion your labeled a hater, or banned from this site.

Can they not find a guy better educated that knows something interesting to say about f2p.

I found a handbook called "Suckup shills for f2p" ....want me to read that?

This is what keeps him going, the people who act as though he's kicking kittens with his articles. This generates more hits for his articles. He really doesn't say much to warrant such anger, he just mocks certain popular opinions. He's not attacking travamars but travamars is attacking him.

Ask yourself this, is he making you change your mind? Obviously not, yet he confronts your opinion.

The fact of the matter is many people on this site like to play victim, it justifies their anger laced posts. You see the same thing when ever this site covers something many view as not being an MMO, or something that's not an MMO at all. People act victimized for no reason what so ever. Is it any surprise when they're directly questioned (or their opinions are) they go into a violent rage as we see in these threads? It's not, not to me at least.

There's a difference between taking "cheap shots" at you and confronting an opinion you may hold.

BTW: You're not banned from this site because you disagree, you're banned because you break rules.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Nesrie

Novice Member

Joined: 5/24/08
Posts: 652

7/13/11 12:22:37 AM#70

So what's the name of the handbook the OP is using. F2P Fanbois Handbook? Seriously, this is all that you could to come up with this time around is some handbook so few have heard of to try and make you sound less anything to do with F2P is automateically great than you are?

parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.

  Ceridith

Novice Member

Joined: 11/24/09
Posts: 3001

The more you hype an upcoming game in your mind, the more it will fail to meet your expectations.

7/13/11 12:27:59 AM#71

Originally posted by Archeminos



Why are people getting angry over satire when everything he says is just an exaggeration of what anti-F2P people say and do? He didn't say all do these things, but the most vocal of them sure as heck do.



 

Because in the past Mr. Aihoshi has made similar comments about anyone who voices any disapproval of F2P MMOs... only they weren't made in satire.

It's hard to take his article as just 'poking fun' at those who he's made clear he thinks are narrow minded, ignorant, or otherwise misinformed, simply because they have a differing opinion as to the quality of the F2P model.

I simply don't see how this article was in any way constructive or contributing to the MMORPG community. All it's served to do is act like flame bait to stir up more 'us vs. them' hatred over an issue that's purely a matter of personal preference.


  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15983

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/13/11 12:35:24 AM#72
Originally posted by Nesrie

So what's the name of the handbook the OP is using. F2P Fanbois Handbook? Seriously, this is all that you could to come up with this time around is some handbook so few have heard of to try and make you sound less anything to do with F2P is automateically great than you are?

The more replies I read the more I see where RA is coming from. Very few actually read what he has to say and reply to it, they get locked in a fit of rage, over the subject matter. Which OFC is F2P and the not so truthful stigma that's carried with it.

I personally am not a fan of the model, I've always felt there was a lack of quality in most offerings, so I stay away from all even those that might not be of such low tech variety. This is something else he talks about and he's right about it, do you see me taking offense? Na, he's entitled to his opinion to.

Again I can't ignore the fact people get angry over the silliest things on this site. And apply that to these threads, as it just reinforces my opinion of that.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  User Deleted
7/13/11 12:47:17 AM#73
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Gruug

Spending real money in what is called by that games developers as a F2P game is totally contrary. Drop the "free" part as part of the marketing scheme and maybe some of the saner among us will come onboard. Until then, F2P is nothing but a scam. Unfortunately, many still don't WANT to believe that.

Beliefs... now that's a good place to go. Let's run with that.

  • Not every F2P games sells items that you need in order to progress.
  • You can't make that statement. They may not sell products that are necessary to *you*. However, to others, they very well may, and quite likely do... there is that cited "10% who pay the most" to consider. I really hope you're not going to claim something silly like "they're all just buying vanity items"... 'cause you wouldn't know that either.
  • Few F2P MMOs make the claim that the entire game is free.
  • You mean aside from the huge 'FREE!' splattered all over all their advertising, in their PR and in the descriptions scattered about their websites? Also, the issue isn't that people are outraged over "everything not being free". Believe it or not, people are generally very well aware that Cash Shop = having to spend money to get stuff. 
  • Not every F2P is PvP, so 'paying for advantage over other players' is an odd argument when players aren't competing.
  • And that has exactly what to do with the F2P/Cash Shop MMOs that *do* have PvP, and their affect on people who enjoy PvP? Here's a hint: Absolutely nothing. That something isn't applicable in some cases is not an indication that it's not applicable in all.
  • The majority of F2P gamers pay absolutely nothing the entire time they play the game.
  • Of course, we never see metrics about how long those who never pay a dime actually stick with the game, and up to what point they play before moving on. Funny, that... but not surprising.
  •  
  • It's wonderful PR spin that proponents are all too happy to state over and over... but yet fall oddly silent and change topics when you ask them to break it down into more specific details like, "how many of those who aren't paying a dime are actually actively playing the game at all?"... keeping in mind that any F2P account created is technically always "active" because there's no need to cancel them.
  •  
  • I created an account to give Allods a try.. .geeze... forever ago. Played it a few times over a couple days and haven't touched it since. Regardless,  my account is still considered "active" and you bet your ass if PR for that game starts citing "number of active accounts", that my - long unused - account is counted among them.
  •  
  • By the same token, all those who have accounts, but aren't actually playing also aren't "spending any money". So, the argument that "the majority don't spend a dime" is also suspect... because it doesn't account for how many of those "not paying a dime" also aren't playing the game at all.
  •  
  • That whole "majority of people don't pay a dime" thing sounds really, really impressive until you look past the shiny surface and realize that F2P MMO devs don't tend to release specific numbers of how their actual player-base breaks down. Then the cracks start to show.
  •  
  • Let's see some numbers that show:
  • 1) How many are actively playing the game, logging in and playing about three times a week, for at least an hour at a time - a really casual schedule - and who have logged in at least once during the past month (being really generous here). Anyone who hasn't logged in for over a month is clearly not actively playing.
  • 2) How many of them are "dabblers"? People who log in every now and again - maybe twice a week or less - spend an hour or so, and log out, but aren't actually actively playing or progressing in the game? Maybe they log in to be social more than anything. That type would likely never need to spend a dime, because they're barely playing the game at all.
  • 3) Based on those very loose (and generous) conditions... of the remaining number of people who have logged in within the past month, and are actively playing the game, logging in regularly and actually going through the content.. how many of those people are doing so without ever paying a dime?
  •  
  • I'm not asking you to answer that question, Lokto, as you likely wouldn't have access to that info. I doubt anyone here would. But, it's information that would be very interesting to see and - I believe - would have very different results with those criteria in play. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the % of people who never pay a time decrease, and the % of those who do pay increase. That's my prediction on the matter, and it will likely remain as such because I don't see any F2P developer or publisher ever releasing such specific details. Would lessen the "oomph" of their PR.
  •  
  • F2P games add regular content for both free players and paying players - there is no charge for expansions.
  • There are P2P MMOs do the same, in terms of adding new content that doesn't require an additional purchase. Lineage 2 has never had a single retail expansion in all its years online, for one example. Eve Online is another... to name just two. There are P2P MMOs that do not charge for the client download and only require that you pay the first month's subscription to start playing.
  • F2P games are digital download, offering their players the ability to try the game for as long as thy want before they opt to spend a single cent on the game.
  • Umm.. yes, that's why they call it "free to play", because there's no cost of entry. You're praising something for being something it's supposed to be, by definition. It's like saying "sugar free soda is better than regular soda because it's sugar free!" It's a completely self-reinforcing argument. Not exactly compelling. It's also not what people have issue with, which also makes your remark something of a strawman. What people have issue with, and has been discussed over and over again, is how the games are designed and how the Cash Shops are set up.
     

This is where what people WANT to believe really comes into play. You do not WANT to believe those things, therefore you dismiss them as false, yet you accuse others of the same behaviour you display. You will not accept any of those things, despite the inability to present any data to refute them.

Who are you talking to, exactly, and how do you know what people WANT to believe? You're making an awful lot of assumptions of what others think and what others do in this post of yours.

 This is where the argument is at an impasse. It is not on the side of people who accept F2P as an opton for gaming, but on the other side, where arguments are fueled by unsupported talking points, insults and personal attacks against those who do not buy into what those who dislike the F2P business model WANT to believe.

Okay, so you're basically turning a blind eye/ear to all the crap that comes from the F2P crowd - including Aihoshi himself via his well-documented pot-shots and condescending remarks about those who disagree with him. You're choosing to ignore the *many* very well thought out and supported arguments against F2P.... so you can turn around and claim that none have been made. 

And you really believe yours is a sound argument...?

Interesting.

  Distopia

Drifter

Joined: 11/22/05
Posts: 15983

"what a boring life, HATING everything" -Gorilla Biscuits

7/13/11 12:47:23 AM#74
Originally posted by Ceridith
 

(mod edit)

He doesn't take pot shots at individuals, he addresses opinions. It's not about poking fun, it's about myth busting, with a little satire thrown in.

An opinion piece isn't about being constructive or contributing to the greater good, it's about offering a perpsective view and nothing more.

No offense to you, but...

To fault a writer for creating an us vs them discusion is almost laughable.. correction... it is laughable considering what site we're on. If anything he's just generating what 90% of those on this site do, everything here results in an us vs them scenario. You don't have to say much at all for that to be the result here.

For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson

It is a sign of a defeated man, to attack at ones character in the face of logic and reason- Me

  Astraeis

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/17/10
Posts: 310

7/13/11 3:00:43 AM#75

Deep sigh.


It takes one to know one.

  sumo0

Novice Member

Joined: 9/18/10
Posts: 122

7/13/11 3:55:50 AM#76

lets not forget that theres a big difference between the games designed for f2p and those failed p2p games. games that are designed for f2p are usually boring and made for simpletons.


i can name many f2p games that all suck, but ofc i can do the same with p2p. but its a given fact that f2p is rubbish most of the time!


  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

7/13/11 5:59:25 AM#77


Originally posted by itgrowls Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.
Hehe I'm always baffled with this kind of perspective. You can buy +50 to each stat in lotro store. Best item You can get from raid will give around 150 statwise(say 50 str, 50 agi and 50 vit). So buing 3 x +50 stats is like obtaining best item in game. Yet because they aren't put on some kind special "cloak of uberness" it's fine and dandy as they don't sell gear and thus advantage...seriously? 

As for article I find it closer to trolling than satire. And character of comments seems to confirm that. I for one would not want such controversy on my site, but whatever...

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19530

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

7/13/11 6:31:54 AM#78
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Gruug

Spending real money in what is called by that games developers as a F2P game is totally contrary. Drop the "free" part as part of the marketing scheme and maybe some of the saner among us will come onboard. Until then, F2P is nothing but a scam. Unfortunately, many still don't WANT to believe that.

Beliefs... now that's a good place to go. Let's run with that.

  • Not every F2P games sells items that you need in order to progress.
  • Few F2P MMOs make the claim that the entire game is free.
  • Not every F2P is PvP, so 'paying for advantage over other players' is an odd argument when players aren't competing.
  • The majority of F2P gamers pay absolutely nothing the entire time they play the game.
  • F2P games add regular content for both free players and paying players - there is no charge for expansions.
  • F2P games are digital download, offering their players the ability to try the game for as long as thy want before they opt to spend a single cent on the game.

This is where what people WANT to believe really comes into play. You do not WANT to believe those things, therefore you dismiss them as false, yet you accuse others of the same behaviour you display. You will not accept any of those things, despite the inability to present any data to refute them.

 

This is where the argument is at an impasse. It is not on the side of people who accept F2P as an opton for gaming, but on the other side, where arguments are fueled by unsupported talking points, insults and personal attacks against those who do not buy into what those who dislike the F2P business model WANT to believe.

I'd be interested in you posting the F2P games that in fact are just like you stated above, so I could give one of them a try. (please, no fremiums, that doesn't count despite what Richard wants to believe)

I've tried a dozen or so F2P games over the years and they all pretty much fall into the sterotypical cash shop, heavy grinding, P2W model (or at least P2 have fun) and perhaps I've just been unlucky.  Some please recommend their favorite F2P that doesn't fit this mold and I'll give it a go.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  P2PGamer

Novice Member

Joined: 6/30/11
Posts: 125

7/13/11 8:49:52 AM#79

Some of them say that there are F2P mmorpgs on the market that are completely free to play and don't end up in a P2W situation someplace down the line.  Please, show me these games.  I have yet to see a F2P mmorpg that at some point doesn't  ask for your money.

Power to the Sheeple

  User Deleted
7/13/11 11:23:44 AM#80
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by itgrowls Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.
Hehe I'm always baffled with this kind of perspective. You can buy +50 to each stat in lotro store. Best item You can get from raid will give around 150 statwise(say 50 str, 50 agi and 50 vit). So buing 3 x +50 stats is like obtaining best item in game. Yet because they aren't put on some kind special "cloak of uberness" it's fine and dandy as they don't sell gear and thus advantage...seriously? 

 

As for article I find it closer to trolling than satire. And character of comments seems to confirm that. I for one would not want such controversy on my site, but whatever...

   Yay...yet another person on the 'stat cap' train!  If you actually played, you'd know just how useful they actually are.  If you're going to pick something to complain about in the Lotro shop - at least pick something that IS useful - like the power pots!

 

  As usual, great article Richard!  You really know how to play your audience :D!

6 Pages « 1 2 3 4 5 6 » Search