Originally posted by itgrowls
...

I say that the people who hate the freemium model for games don't really realize it's potential or have never played the model to begin with. I've been playing Lotro for almost 4 years and i have to say if other games that are presently sub only would pick up this model it would allow for multiple games to be played instead of being stuck in a single sub the entire life of an mmo not to mention having money to purchase in-game enhancements for each game i play at different times allowing for progression without a sub, i've never enjoyed Lotro as much as i do now.

That's nice for you, but you've basically just said that anyone who disagrees with the model you like is ignorant.

And yet you wonder why there are so many "haters"?

I'm sorry, but this is exactly why there is so much vitriol over this issue. Just because you prefer a particular payment model, does not mean that other people have to like it, let alone that it's the best model for everyone.

There are several people who have tried F2P games and freemium games, and still don't like them. That's just their opinion based on their personal preference, and they're well within their right to feel that way. It has nothing to do with ignorance, merely preference. I don't understand why that's so difficult for some people to understand.

Amen to that!

Originally posted by wiseguy21

Watching people rage about video games from my computer is quite amusing. Mr. Aihosi, do continue writing articles. The replies are rather hilarious.

On another note-

I'm not quite sure I follow why this arguement sprang up. While advocation of one's opinions can (and in Mr. Aihosi's case, does) sound narrow-minded and somewhat intolerant, it's nothing for a mob to go after. I do realize that many of these people are well informed about what they write about, but seriously, why would you follow a coloumn on free to play MMOs if you dislike the idea? Is it for a free arguement?

Because 'experts' who "report" on a particular subject aren't supposed to be take overly biased positions. At least not if you want such articles to be considered journalism on some level, let alone professional.

A lot of people play MMOs for the RP portion, and the cloths available to the paper doll we dress are just as important as any other aspect of the world we play in.

So, those vanity items in your cash shop are "P2W" to me. Since i will have less options available to me to customize my avatar to fit my toons attitude or style unless I pay for those options, i will feel inclined to do so.

Its not a joke when some very wealthy educated people use a digital platform to peddle entertainment in a almost predatory fashion.

Originally posted by wiseguy21

 

I'm not quite sure I follow why this arguement sprang up. While advocation of one's opinions can (and in Mr. Aihosi's case, does) sound narrow-minded and somewhat intolerant, it's nothing for a mob to go after. I do realize that many of these people are well informed about what they write about, but seriously, why would you follow a coloumn on free to play MMOs if you dislike the idea? Is it for a free arguement?

 

Maybe its because some of the community may be against F2P but are still more objective than the supposed journalist and are actually interested in hearing the other side of the debate.

But when all they get is baiting or personal attacks for having an opinion, those even-tempered community members will likely lose interest in his column and become dismissive of the journalist. 

Originally posted by itgrowls

if Lotro is any indication of what the rest of the industry is moving towards i say go for it! I love the games present model. I subed at the beginning of the game i don't now because it's unnecessary and i am doing just fine. 

Keep Chanting the "F2P is Pay to Win" Mantra = completely false notion. one cannot buy gear in Lotro and as far as im concerned it has been the most successful model.

Never Forget to Say "Freemium Isn't F2P" = false, you can still level complete deeds etc nothing is stopping you from playing in the Lotro model. sure you can't do some skirmishes or quests in certain zones but it's really not that difficult to achieve levels.

Don't Be Trapped Into Discussing Facts or Opinions = God knows that the facts are terrible things. Apparently that's the new view in everything these days that facts are entrapments designed to keep people from achieving fame for their particular conspiracy theory. The facts about the freemium model are that it's fun, it's honest, and it's the most profitable model thus far, but then again those are facts.

 

I say that the people who hate the freemium model for games don't really realize it's potential or have never played the model to begin with. I've been playing Lotro for almost 4 years and i have to say if other games that are presently sub only would pick up this model it would allow for multiple games to be played instead of being stuck in a single sub the entire life of an mmo not to mention having money to purchase in-game enhancements for each game i play at different times allowing for progression without a sub, i've never enjoyed Lotro as much as i do now.

 

I'd also like to note for the record that the LOTRO cash shop (I'm a VIP member, and have played the game since closed Beta) does, in fact, offer items that offer real in game advantages.... some of which are exclusive to the shop or are incredibly rare to find in game.

These include...

 - Tomes that permanently increase your stats (drops in game but at a VERY RARE rate).

 - Special Relics that can ONLY be bought in the shop and are more powerfull then any of the ones obtained in game (Relics are bit's that are applied to legendary weapons and items to permanently enhance the stats of those items).

 - Power and Health Potions that are more powerfull then those that can be obtained in game.

Now, none of these are REQUIRED to play the game....and thier overall power enhancement to your characters aren't that huge. The fact is, they DO exist.

I'll agree that LOTRO is one of the least egregious of the freemium models...but even it is not entirely devoid of some "pay to win" elements.

Just the facts.

People get offended too easily.

What's funny (sad) is that most of the F2P haters (there are things to hate about certain models, but overall the model is extremely successful and often has no actual effect on gameplay) use most of these tactics.

I'm not going to pick sides or claim that someones opinion is flat out wrong because I disagree with it, but when someone sayd "F2P = Pay to win in every game" I can say that they are flat out wrong.

It's funny though, because you could re-lable "F2P Hater" with "Extremism" and it would fit about as well lulz.

Don't forget... slippery slope...  If everyone starts going F2P then eventually all games will be 'ye with the most money wins' - where nothing is based on skill or time spent, everything is based on how much money you can afford to throw at the game to be uberleetz.

You are correct Richard, haters are going to hate. You just need to realize that 95% of mmorpg.com users don't have a sense of humor.

Originally posted by Caskio

Reading the replies to RIchard's articles is 1 of the most entertaining things on this site.  I do have to agree with Richard, though.  I do see too many people stereotyping any kind of Free 2 Play game as Pay 2 Win irregardless if said Win can be earned without paying, it just takes a lot longer to acquire.

Was about to say the same thing, people get so emotional over his opinions, or the satire he approaches others opinions with. Often many replies prove the point he was making, which is why I think he continues to do it.

Yep, sure - lets all just bend over the F2P barrell and let these developers give it to us for the rest of our MMO playing lives. I mean, the industry think it's a good idea, guys. They're not looking to maximize the amount of cash they can suck from each potential customer, no sir.

I read a quote in these forums somewhere, at some time, that went something like this: "If you look a little closer you'll see the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt."

Originally posted by MyGarona
If f2p saves any jobs it is a better alternative for failed MMOs than complete shutdown. As usual - if you don't like it, don't play it. Deleting all my 85s on WoW was incredibly liberating.

Don't worry, if you call Blizzard they will restore them for you. =)

MMO's didn't used to be about dressup dolls or paying extra to get an advantage (unless you supported the gold farmers) so WTF?

These things come and go in waves. It's similar to the AOL payment models back during the "Information SuperHighway" days. It'll pass. The market is absolutely flooded with crap right now and developers are focused on making replicable little red dresses instead of innovating. Think we'll ever see horseback combat from LoTRo now? They're so desperate that they're selling Legendary items in the Lotro store. I guess it's great if you want to pay to dress up your character, but without any sense of accomplishment the game is gutted now.

F2P and Freemium are marketing terms for 'Demo.' Additionally, someone has to pay so you can play - who's that going to be - it seems funny to me that all these F2Pers are screaming capitalism, but forgetting that they're basically asking everyone else to pay their ticket.

You know, everytime I see a topic like this, I ponder something inside myself. Something that seems very apparent about the people I see arguing against F2P.

I have to ask you. You're flailing and wailing about all F2P going to be, or is "Buy to Win". But my question is, why do you worry so much about other people being strong, and not just.. you know.. play the game and have fun?

I prefer P2P games although I do play F2P games as well. But I do have to admit that articles like this one make me a Richard Aihoshi hater.

Originally posted by Rinna

Don't forget... slippery slope...  If everyone starts going F2P then eventually all games will be 'ye with the most money wins' - where nothing is based on skill or time spent, everything is based on how much money you can afford to throw at the game to be uberleetz.

 

 

Doesn't this apply in F2P as well as P2P? The fact that gold sellers and power levelers are raking in cash at a huge clip indicates it does

Originally posted by zidane01970

You know, everytime I see a topic like this, I ponder something inside myself. Something that seems very apparent about the people I see arguing against F2P.

 

I have to ask you. You're flailing and wailing about all F2P going to be, or is "Buy to Win". But my question is, why do you worry so much about other people being strong, and not just.. you know.. play the game and have fun?

I could ask you similarly: why does it matter to you why others dislike cash shops or F2P games?

Most people who dislike cashshops and/or F2P just avoid such MMOs. In fact most of those people who don't like F2P don't spend time ranting about how they dislike cash shops and/or F2P until something or someone provokes them.

People have different preferences in what they want an MMO to be. Some people like F2P, some don't. Articles like Mr. Aihoshi's do nothing but bait people into arguments over personal preference. It's not productive, and personally I'd report some of Aihosi's articles as trolling/flame-baiting if I could.

Originally posted by Thanosxp

Originally posted by Rawiz

Richard has purchased [Troll Blade of Doom], cost $5.

Now, if you equip it with your [Cloak of Far-fetchedness], [Loincloth of Propaganda] and [Rags of Intolerance], you will have a complete set!

Absurd! We all know it's missing the "Monocle of narrowed vision" in that set.

Please do not forget the costs for enchanting it with the best things available.

Anyway, nothing to see here, the sequence of haters gonna hate pictures pretty much summed up the article. For those who aren't following this website for long, once in a while he dedicates one of his articles especially to the audience he doesn't seem to be writing to - the ones that dislike F2P (so everyone actually gets baited into an amusing thread of flames), don't mind us though, because we are illogical monsters, after all F2P games seem to generate a much higher revenue than P2P games, thanks to more mass appeal for the bandwagon and the possibility of spending way more than $15 a month for those who want to (it is optional though!).

Originally posted by wiseguy21

but seriously, why would you follow a coloumn on free to play MMOs if you dislike the idea? Is it for a free arguement?

Oh, thats an easy one..

(In my best Bromance dialect ever) "Because anything that I do not like should not exist.. EVER bro!"