Originally posted by bansan

Originally posted by Aki_Ross

*snip*

CCP had always said they wouldn't be adding gold ammo, ships or anything that would alter game play. In the end it came down to a lot of people jumping the gun, because of an internal memo throwing ideas around. So in other words they should have trusted them to do the right thing from the very beginning.

 

And what about, in their own words, that they had planned to sell Scorpions without requiring a trade-in, until people made a fuss?

Or their promise to never implement a cash shop like the one they are implementing right now?

What the hell are these people who keep saying Eve'rs jumped the gun seeing?

CCP's backpedaling is the direct result of people with the torches and pitchforks.  Same thing with FFXIV, yet people keep thinking these companies will do the right thing on their own.

When bad things happen, they sit on their butts and do nothing.  If the bad things stay, they say oh, it doesn't make a difference.  If the stuff gets repealed, they say see, they would have repealed it anyway.

Deadweights.

There's a huge difference between stating concerns and making them known, and running from the pieces falling from the sky. What I saw was the latter.

As for scorpions you're only telling half the story. What you're saying was only to be a temporary issue.

Where is that promise to never add a cash shop by the way? Linky?

You're also forgetting that the CSM acknowledged there seemed to be no plan what so ever of offering game altering changes.

Haha. I read this thread and saw a bunch of people still bashing the people that fought to keep all the non-vanity items out. Maybe it's because the money they get from their parents, so they don't care what happens in the game. But, what these so-called nerd ragers did was save the game from being another pay-to-win.

You can also say that they weren't going to put non-vanity items in the game, anyways. Really? How long have you been playing MMOs? It's only a matter of time before they put ships and such in the game. The people that don't care about the cash shop having ships, ammo and so on ... Need to really get a job and quit getting allowance.. Or, spend your money on something better ... Like food for your kids.

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Malickie

As long as CCP keeps caving to every qualm players have, they'll stay where they are economically, it's sad really. The more money CCP has the better experience Eve will be and the further it will evolve. Most consumers are too short sighted to think about these things though.

LMFAO.

I believe it was those who sat at idle that would fall into the short sighted bin. Those who protested, fall into the bin of foresight. Remaining static and just settling for whatever may come is not the wisest behaviour.

Milking their playerbase was not in CCP's best interest no matter how you want to spin it.

Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.

Originally posted by stayontarget

Originally posted by bansan

Originally posted by Teb1288

Short version: A whole lot of idiots freak out about something that was never going to happen.

Smart version: The community freakout actually caused CCP to back-peddle faster than a guy finding out his girlfriend was actually a man, baby.

 

Honestly, did they need to fly out four people to Iceland to find out that players wanted assurance there would be no non-vanity items?

Gratz to Eve'rs, and I really mean that.  But you guys haven't won, they are just bidding their time.  I know you guys weren't just afraid of what was going to happen out of nothing.  It was the feeling you got from their actions that caused suspicions right?

 

Unfortunately, nitwits (cough) that play don't even know what you've done for them, even after seeing the result.

Exactly my thought +1

If the whole community would have acted like sheep in this process then things might have turned out differently. 

~Bravo to the rebels~

All BS.  CCP has always said publicly they would never add p2win items to their MT.  Despite what some of you wish for, it just never happened.  Even CCP knows that if they did that it would be the end of EVE.  They know it, we players know it.  End of story.  So stop trying to make up stuff...because that is exactly what you are doing.  Either stick to what we all know as facts or don't comment on heresay.   That leaked document, real as it was, was an internal document meant for the eyes of CCP employees only and if you have ever worked in a corporation you know these types of "internal" papers are for people to toss about ideas and thoughts.  We did this at HP, Canon and every other big corp I have ever worked for.  

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Originally posted by Malickie

Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.

---

You ask too much from EVE players.

They are unable to approach an information with a grain of critical thinking, yet you think they could understand what it takes to run a business?

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Malickie

Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.

---

 

You ask too much from EVE players.

They are unable to approach an information with a grain of critical thinking, yet you think they could understand what it takes to run a business?

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Originally posted by frostsmit

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.

If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

Originally posted by frostsmith

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Malickie

Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.

---

 

You ask too much from EVE players.

They are unable to approach an information with a grain of critical thinking, yet you think they could understand what it takes to run a business?

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Excuse me...but what game company forces you to play it - ever?

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by frostsmit

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.

If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

Well  I don't know what idiot would not want such features. Which is why I believe this thread was just about the things we all know shouldn't be in the game. Why post such obvious things? Of course we all want the non-cash shop features!? Who said we didn't?

Originally posted by stayontarget

If the whole community would have acted like sheep in this process then things might have turned out differently. 

~Bravo to the rebels~

Fully agreeing with this.

You can bet your ass that there have been some long and heated meetings before the CSM even landed in order to establish a readjusted strategy in regards to the cash shop.

The fact that they didn't assure us of a 'vanity only' stance for a week during the shit storm shows a lot. It would have been real easy to communicate that and it would have taken away the worries of many people. It took time to decide that though. I have no doubt that the player protests and unsubs had a big effect on that. It also made them rethink their communication protocols which was direly needed.

Anyway, good thing it will be vanity only.

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by frostsmith

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Malickie

Hmm, I'm not talking about the pay to win concerns, I'm talking about people who lack an understanding of moving a product forward rather than backward. Keep patting yourself on the back though, about issues you have no clue would have come to fruition or not.

---

 

You ask too much from EVE players.

They are unable to approach an information with a grain of critical thinking, yet you think they could understand what it takes to run a business?

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Excuse me...but what game company forces you to play it - ever?

Excuse me. What post forced you to reply? See what I did? You can't help yourself.

Originally posted by frostsmith

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by frostsmit

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.

If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

Well  I don't know what idiot would not want such features. Which is why I believe this thread was just about the things we all know shouldn't be in the game. Why post such obvious things? Of course we all want the non-cash shop features!? Who said we didn't?

 

Read the post I originally replied to (2nd page)..

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by frostsmith

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by frostsmit

 

 

?

I can't believe these forums are filled with people wanting companies to make you pay for something you already payed for!? You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!? It's like DLC these days. They're the crap that they cut from the game, so they can sell to you later on. I would feel bad for companies, if they weren't so greedy. But hey, let's care for these these dipsticks that already make plenty of money.

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.

If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

Well  I don't know what idiot would not want such features. Which is why I believe this thread was just about the things we all know shouldn't be in the game. Why post such obvious things? Of course we all want the non-cash shop features!? Who said we didn't?

 

Read the post I originally replied to (2nd page)..

Alright, found the post about the "spinning ships" and such. I apologize to you, good sir. You have to understand, I go into a blind rage about cash shops and sometimes read posts that were really about something else.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by bansan

Originally posted by Aki_Ross

*snip*

CCP had always said they wouldn't be adding gold ammo, ships or anything that would alter game play. In the end it came down to a lot of people jumping the gun, because of an internal memo throwing ideas around. So in other words they should have trusted them to do the right thing from the very beginning.

 

And what about, in their own words, that they had planned to sell Scorpions without requiring a trade-in, until people made a fuss?

Or their promise to never implement a cash shop like the one they are implementing right now?

What the hell are these people who keep saying Eve'rs jumped the gun seeing?

CCP's backpedaling is the direct result of people with the torches and pitchforks.  Same thing with FFXIV, yet people keep thinking these companies will do the right thing on their own.

When bad things happen, they sit on their butts and do nothing.  If the bad things stay, they say oh, it doesn't make a difference.  If the stuff gets repealed, they say see, they would have repealed it anyway.

Deadweights.

There's a huge difference between stating concerns and making them known, and running from the pieces falling from the sky. What I saw was the latter.

As for scorpions you're only telling half the story. What you're saying was only to be a temporary issue.

Where is that promise to never add a cash shop by the way? Linky?

You're also forgetting that the CSM acknowledged there seemed to be no plan what so ever of offering game altering changes.

 If that's what you saw I'm glad I have my eyes and not yours.

Originally posted by frostsmith

 

Read the post I originally replied to (2nd page)..

 

Alright, found the post about the "spinning ships" and such. I apologize to you, good sir. You have to understand, I go into a blind rage about cash shops and sometimes read posts that were really about something else.

Np :)

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Originally posted by frostsmith

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.
If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

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It's cool. What I said can be applied to both cases easily :-P

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Originally posted by frostsmith
You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!?

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I don't have to, that's why it's extra.

Anything from item shop can be bought with ISK so your point(did you actually make any?) is moot.

PS: Monocles are cool.

Originally posted by JuJutsu

 

 If that's what you saw I'm glad I have my eyes and not yours.

Sure there were people who did the right thing, however for every person who did, there were 4-5 who did nothing but spread hysteria all over forums. Which accomplished nothing what so ever. Those who did the right thing did so by hitting CCP where it hurt, subscriptions.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by frostsmith

Who is talking about that? He replied to my post which was in reference to the immersive features people are attempting to hold back, such as incarna as a whole, which could bring in a wealth of new players as well as income for CCP.
If you can't be bothered to read both posts in a conversation why bother replying at all?

---

 

It's cool. What I said can be applied to both cases easily :-P

 

---

Originally posted by frostsmith
You pay a monthly subscription, yet ... You have to pay extra for something in the cash shop!?

---

 

I don't have to, that's why it's extra.

Anything from item shop can be bought with ISK so your point(did you actually make any?) is moot.

 

PS: Monocles are cool.

 

 

Monocles are not cool. And so is being a wannabe hipster. Yes, hispters wear monocles now.

Originally posted by Czanrei

This is absurd. I understand clearly about the controversy involving MT's, but throwing tantrums about not having "spinning ships?" If those brats, and the term fits the definition, want unimmersive boring space games, they should go play 'Dark Orbit' or some FB knockoff version. 

The idea that CCP is even considering re-adding the spinning ships kiddie version has me wanting to cancel personally. I enjoy games that evolve with technology and have immersion, not boring kiddie games trying to pretend to be a space mmo.

So I take it you like the privilege of having to pay a subscription so you can test pre alpha builds of another games engine? Most people angry at the loss of the hanger do not really care about ship spinning itself they resent the state the captains quarters was in when it was shoveled out of the door.

They resent its poor performance, they resent the fact that many EVE players tend to do other things with their PCs when docked, they resent the way its performance issues are even worse with multiple clients running and they also hate the fact that if you turn it off you get a terrible low res picture of a brown door. Having to load CQ every time you dock really impacts some players performance, its especially annoying when you dock to say pick up a single item.

The problems are not really limited to older or less high end machines, some people with bleeding edge machines have huge problems yet others with less powerful machines have fewer problems. The problems are caused purely by bad optimisation because the Incarna engine is a test engine for World of Darkness yet EVE players have to pay for this rubbish.

Losing the hanger also impacted functionality, with station environments turned off for example you cannot see directly which ship you are flying and have to open a ships cargo to place things inside, these are two examples of how you don't need more clicks in an already difficult UI.

Its not like the captains quarters are actually any good, there is nothing to do, nothing to customise, you cant even change whats displayed on the screen and as for clothes we where given the choice of less than 10 items which where all loltastically overpriced.

So EVE players where forced to use a rubbish captains quarters which has no functionality and took functionality away and has dreadful optimization issues.

I think EVE players where justified in being angry and it was no "tantrum".

Originally posted by Garkan

Originally posted by Czanrei

This is absurd. I understand clearly about the controversy involving MT's, but throwing tantrums about not having "spinning ships?" If those brats, and the term fits the definition, want unimmersive boring space games, they should go play 'Dark Orbit' or some FB knockoff version. 

The idea that CCP is even considering re-adding the spinning ships kiddie version has me wanting to cancel personally. I enjoy games that evolve with technology and have immersion, not boring kiddie games trying to pretend to be a space mmo.

 

So I take it you like the privilege of having to pay a subscription so you can test pre alpha builds of another games engine? Most people angry at the loss of the hanger do not really care about ship spinning itself they resent the state the captains quarters was in when it was shoveled out of the door.

They resent its poor performance, they resent the fact that many EVE players tend to do other things with their PCs when docked, they resent the way its performance issues are even worse with multiple clients running and they also hate the fact that if you turn it off you get a terrible low res picture of a brown door. Having to load CQ every time you dock really impacts some players performance, its especially annoying when you dock to say pick up a single item.

The problems are not really limited to older or less high end machines, some people with bleeding edge machines have huge problems yet others with less powerful machines have fewer problems. The problems are caused purely by bad optimisation because the Incarna engine is a test engine for World of Darkness yet EVE players have to pay for this rubbish.

Losing the hanger also impacted functionality, with station environments turned off for example you cannot see directly which ship you are flying and have to open a ships cargo to place things inside, these are two examples of how you don't need more clicks in an already difficult UI.

Its not like the captains quarters are actually any good, there is nothing to do, nothing to customise, you cant even change whats displayed on the screen and as for clothes we where given the choice of less than 10 items which where all loltastically overpriced.

So EVE players where forced to use a rubbish captains quarters which has no functionality and took functionality away and has dreadful optimization issues.

I think EVE players where justified in being angry and it was no "tantrum".

This.

Plus if the CQ actually added anything to the game other then being able to stare at yourself in the mirror while wearing your monocle I could see the arguements, but staring at a tv while sitting on a couch is not really what I call moving forward gameplay. Spinning spaceship in a spaceship game, or looking at avatar wearing your mt'd quafe shirt and monocle, and your picking the mirror as adding immersion?