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Religion & Politics  » New York signs Gay Marriage Law

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227 posts found
  Josher

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 2835

6/27/11 3:51:44 PM#101

I also don't see the point of a Homosexual marriage except for legal reasons involving children and /or visitation rights in the case of an illness.  If you don't want children and there's no religion involved, why the hell do you want to complicate the relationship when you get the best of everything=)   

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/27/11 4:31:45 PM#102
Originally posted by C-B-M

I never said that anyone could (or should) legislate a "value" for marriage.  I'm merely noting correctly that you and homosexuals don't actually care about marriage, other than for the purposes of making homosexuality seem normal.  It's merely a vehicle for that intent.

Legally speaking, as I've pointed out, there's no need for gay marriage as any legal benefit is easily addressed outside of marriage and/or not important (i.e., if cohabitating heterosexuals have no impact then there can be no impact to cohabitating homosexuals, by definition).

 

Alimony. It is not addressed outside of marriage.

That's the only thing you get with LEGAL marriage that religious marriage doesn't give you.

Legal rights are legal rights, and we are all equal under the law.

if heterosexual married couples are entitled to alimony, then homosexual married couples should also be entitled to alimony.

That's the only way it's equal.

If there are no legal rights with marriage, then it's not an issue.

You could simply say my religion doesn't marry gays, and that's that, no one would care.

 

But the only way to get alimony is to LEGALLY marry.

What you get with your religious marriage doesn't have anything to do with me or anyone else. Your religion is your business, not mine.

My only  concern about marriage is that the law applies equally to everyone.

If it's not a LEGAL issue, then it does not concern me, because you cannot enforce it on me.

 

 

  Ihmotepp

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/28/08
Posts: 14557

6/27/11 4:40:03 PM#103
Originally posted by Josher

I also don't see the point of a Homosexual marriage except for legal reasons involving children and /or visitation rights in the case of an illness.  If you don't want children and there's no religion involved, why the hell do you want to complicate the relationship when you get the best of everything=)   

 

Marriage has nothing to do with children.

Courts decide custody rights and child support every day for people that have children with each other, but are not married.

  baff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 9470

6/27/11 5:29:59 PM#104

Of all the married couples I know.

Only one does not have children. But I fully expect them to soon.

  Zindaihas

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 5108

'If you put govt in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 yrs there'd be a shortage of sand'~M. Friedman

6/27/11 5:43:07 PM#105
Originally posted by Ihmotepp
Originally posted by outfctrl

All I can say is " Welcome to the fall of Rome".  Another government sponsored of immorality that destroys nations.

 

I don't see how anyone can argue with this.

Canada is about to fall into anarchy any day now because they have gay marriage.

 I'd say your timing here is pretty poor seeing as how Canadians practically burned Vancouver to the ground after the NHL Championship.  Obviously, you can't pin that on gay marriage, but outfctrl is referring to the fall morality in general in the Western world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tK6YIAX1jg

  C-B-M

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/11
Posts: 2661

6/27/11 6:47:40 PM#106

Ihmotepp, the more you write the more it's evident that you don't know anything about marriage.

  Kawi1

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 33

6/27/11 8:24:42 PM#107

 

I, for one, am very happy that NY passed the law.  It affords rights to people...not just a certain section of people.  In my view, that is what civilization is about.  Notice, I didn't say 'modern'.  However, for those that are opposed to the law I hold no grudges against them and will not stoop to any level by name-calling them (bigot happens to be the term most widely used) which I find abhorrent and ultimately self-defeating. I'm comfortable to agree to disagree.

 

As far as the idea or practice or being of homosexuality and the marriage of said people being normalized...well, it always has been. Now, normal as in supported by civilization? Perhaps not although I can think of times when it was more accepted in some cultures than others. But about homosexuality being normal as in...it always happens...then yes, it's been normalized since us humans started interacting on a social level with each other. To say otherwise would be very short-sighted. In the end, the definition of marriage is not for the majority to decide. It's a very personal journey between two people who have decided to share their life and love together (and all the other sappy stuff that goes along with it). Who can say that's so wrong?

  Zindaihas

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 5108

'If you put govt in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 yrs there'd be a shortage of sand'~M. Friedman

6/27/11 8:43:42 PM#108

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tK6YIAX1jg

  Hekket

Novice Member

Joined: 10/26/10
Posts: 921

6/27/11 9:28:40 PM#109
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

lol

I'm sure pro-gay activist would scold you for comparing homosexuality to everything you mentioned.

  Zindaihas

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/06
Posts: 5108

'If you put govt in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 yrs there'd be a shortage of sand'~M. Friedman

6/27/11 9:41:47 PM#110
Originally posted by Hekket
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

lol

I'm sure pro-gay activist would scold you for comparing homosexuality to everything you mentioned.

 Well then they're bigots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tK6YIAX1jg

  Kawi1

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 33

6/28/11 12:42:59 AM#111
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

That argument? Really? From where do you get your moral information (because that's really what this is all about) from...the Bible? If that's the case then let's just have full disclosure about one man in particular: Abraham. Now here is a fine example of 2 of your arguments...clearly supported by the Bible. In fact...encouraged. Abraham...was the Dos Equis Man of the Ancient Times. Not only did he found nations...he had more than one wife (Hagar who bore him Ishmael) and married his sister, Sarah who bore him Isaac. So ya, gay marriage is the same as Abraham? Sure, if that's the way you want to argue it.

 

As for bestiality...it's not even a logical argument. Sex with animals does not even come close to sex between humans much less marriage. Then again...I hear of straight people having sex with animals every so often. Ever hear of a gay person doing the same? Ya, didn't think so. Still, you are entitled to your opinion and that I respect. Now it's your turn to prove that gay marriage/sex is the exact same things that you mentioned.

  generals3

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/04
Posts: 3306

6/28/11 5:19:38 AM#112
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

A:
 Bestalists? really? the mere fact you don't know what would go horribly wrong there is kinda sad. But let me tell it to you. Hey dog , do you take mister X to be your husband. "Woef?" . Ye i can see the consent right there!

And secondly, we aren't even talking about human beings here. Oh i know, i can see the use to giving alimony to a cat right there! 

Seriously, next time just type "hur dur dur dur". That would be even smarter than that.

 

B: Polygamy could be acceptable in that sense. However it does kinda break the whole "commitment" part linked to a marriage. Now ok some people may be able to do it, but i don't think one man can truly commit to multiple partners at the same time or even claim he "loves" them all. But hey if you think that a gender issue is the same as a quantity issue , sure , go ahead, go protest for it.

C: Incest can actually lead to nefast effects if it involves reprocreation. Indeed, the odds of having a handicapped child is MUCH higher if it comes from an incestuous couple. Now if we can force them to not have children, sure , go ahead. Don't give a shit.

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  baff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 9470

6/28/11 7:19:03 AM#113
Originally posted by Kawi1
 

 

As for bestiality...it's not even a logical argument. Sex with animals does not even come close to sex between humans much less marriage.

 Don't knock it until you've tried it.

  baff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 9470

6/28/11 7:21:14 AM#114
Originally posted by generals3
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

A:
 Bestalists? really? the mere fact you don't know what would go horribly wrong there is kinda sad. But let me tell it to you. Hey dog , do you take mister X to be your husband. "Woef?" . Ye i can see the consent right there!

And secondly, we aren't even talking about human beings here. Oh i know, i can see the use to giving alimony to a cat right there! 

Seriously, next time just type "hur dur dur dur". That would be even smarter than that.

 

B: Polygamy could be acceptable in that sense. However it does kinda break the whole "commitment" part linked to a marriage. Now ok some people may be able to do it, but i don't think one man can truly commit to multiple partners at the same time or even claim he "loves" them all. But hey if you think that a gender issue is the same as a quantity issue , sure , go ahead, go protest for it.

C: Incest can actually lead to nefast effects if it involves reprocreation. Indeed, the odds of having a handicapped child is MUCH higher if it comes from an incestuous couple. Now if we can force them to not have children, sure , go ahead. Don't give a shit.

 And anal sex spreads killer diseases.

If you are on some mad health tip, gay isn't really the way forward.

  Finwe

Novice Member

Joined: 7/15/03
Posts: 3112

All that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

6/28/11 8:08:42 AM#115
Originally posted by King_Kumquat
Originally posted by Finwe
Originally posted by King_Kumquat
Originally posted by Finwe
Originally posted by King_Kumquat
Originally posted by Finwe
Originally posted by King_Kumquat
Originally posted by Finwe
Originally posted by King_Kumquat

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/25/us-gaymarriage-newyork-idUSTRE75N5ZA20110625

About time if you ask me. 

The King would never make the claim: "For liberty and justice for all*." and leave such a huge footnote. What America did to the aboriginal people, slaves, women, and workers pales to the persecution of the LGBT community; based mostly on the time line of it all.

Welcome to the 21st century America.

The King welcomes you, and will bide his reign of total subjugation.

 

To reiterate what Zind said two posts above me. That is one of the most asinine, absurd, and completely ridiculously retarded statements I've ever heard. Native americans were exterminated in large part by genocide. Even before the foundation of the U.S. as a sovereign nation. Their lands were stolen, culture destroyed, people murdered. But...Oh yah. That's soooo what the gay's are going through. Native Americans, slaves. But women and workers? One because their pay is shit, the other because they can't vote? What weird comparisons... But really? Comparing the gay movement to the suffering that many native americans and blacks went through? Fucking really? Are you that much of a jackass to not see such a huge difference? Native americans...Genocide, rape, cultural destruction, land stolen and destroyed. Gays...Cultural intolerance. Slaves. In many cases incapable of acquiring freedom, lifelong indebtment to their master. In some situations mistreatment via physical beatings, rape, and death. Gays...Can't marry. My God...You're a moron. I really hate personally insulting somebody in a fairly civil discussion. But you really compared a group of people that rally together based on their sexual orientation and haven't been culturally accepted, to groups of people that have gone through horrible atrocities to in some situations, themselves and their family, or to expand to their entire culture. You're a fucking moron. None of my family has native american ancestry, or to indentured servants nor slaves. But to me...Even me...That's damn offensive. P.S. Welcome to the twenty first century? Ancient aboriginals, greeks, romans, gauls, all had cases of same sex sodomy in their culture? How is this anyway new?

Look here you fucking case work file proof of the need for abortion.

Did I strike a nerve? Seems so. This shall be fun. I'll have to count how many ad hominems and straw men you pull out to make this so obviously astute argument.

 

You hypocrite who probably uses God's name in vain constantly as you flail violently at your inadequate sized penis

A phallic ad hominem? Whoaaaaaaa...I haven't even seen one of those since I stopped talking to closeted homosexual frat boys. But I applaud you for a chuckle. It's amusing.

And I've never used God's name in vain, it always has a point. Though I do not figure how this has any pertinence.

to try and reason why you loathe your pathetic self and to justify your inequated hate towards those you don't understand.

Who do I hate exactly? Well except myself obviously, since you said so.

Although I personally think anyone who is so ridiculously close minded to be inable to accept someone elses beliefs and so immaturely and violently attacks them via a messageboard, whilst screaming and hammering at the keyboard so aggressively that the whole apartment complex is wondering if an isolated earthquake is happening.

Seems you're the self hating one.

Discrimination, supression of rights, and demonizing of others is probably the only fucking grasp of equality you're even half way aware of.

Goosfrabah...Goosfrabah. You're going to have an aneurism if you do not calm down.

Does butt sex always make you this angry?

Is marriage a part of the American culture? Is the right to marriage equal to people in this land? No. The answer to both is not. Gays and lesbians, who are Americans, many great Christians-

The right to marriage should be left to the religious institutions discretion. If they decide to marry homosexuals, they're abominable hypocrites who wouldn't know the verses from the paper they snort their cocaine through.

And how exactly can homosexuals be great christians when they are a complete and utter abomination in the eyes of their God throughout many scriptures saying they will never enter into the Kingdom of God, and are deserved to be executed?

& more so than you'll ever be,

More so what? A "great christian". Uhh..Well...Considering i'm not a Christian...

are denied a basic human right on their native soil. So your first ramble decimated, thanks for playing. But the King isn't done yet.

Marriage is not a basic human right. Sorry.

And my first ramble decimated? Really? Did you even read my post? At all? Half of your rant is some freakish obsession about my dick, the other half, attempting to personally attack me with a tinge of some angry tirade thrown in.

Next... Have gays been raped by straight people? Happens a lot in Texas as a way to show'em. Have they been murdered? Have they been forced to commit suicide? Yes. Have you not paid attention to the things happneing around you in the year 2011? No. You're one of those people who is purpousfully ignorant. And I hope you fucking die.

Lol...Sorry. Just how angry you are kind of amuses me, "YOU DON"T AGREE WITH ME? I HOPE YOU FUCKING DIE!". It's like argueing with a methed out 16 year old on her people.

And of course hate crimes have happened. All kinds of hate crimes. Black on white. White on black. Homosexuals being raped by straight people. Straight people being raped by homosexuals. Oh wow...Individuals attacking each other...Oh the horror. Obviously this is a weak comparison to government genocide. Individuals comitting crimes...Damn you're dense.

And no one is forced to commit suicide. If you commit suicide, chances are, you're a weak willed excuse for a human being. "Oh noes...I got bullied. I'm gonna kill myself."

No one has any intestinal fortitude anymore. But hey...suicide is just another term for natural selection.

Still if you're ass enough to read this through.

Your offended because you're stupid.

Ad hominem alert...Ring the alarm!

I stand by my statements and I'm willing to have you check them against their equals. Homosexuality isn't something that's "okay" to have a bias against. The Native Americans, the Blacks, women, and workers know what it's like to have people who mis-read the bible and twists God's word to justify their own bigotry first hand. 

Having a bias towards something equal to, Mass murder.

Yep. Definitely see the comparison. Your logic is infallible!

We should most definitely create laws where you will be executed if you are biased.

Then soon after, all the nations of the world will send off all their nuclear bombs to cause mass extinction, because we've all comitted the same crime.

Please...Go see a neurologist.

But the twentith century showed progress on their struggles.

Thus, why I'm excited to see that there are people fighting against hate in the 21st century. That footnote I was talking about wasn't a direct comparison, but then again you're a well proved idiot. It was stating oversight for leaving the LGBT community out the last century.

And the ad hominem alarm is sound again!

Not a direction comparison? Really? Oh yes...You're right. In fact you said it pales to the persecution of the LGBT community.

I'm happy to do my part, and I'd be willing to make you choke on your own fucking teeth if it meant that I could spare someone who has a different sexuial orientation other than my own any sort of petty judgement an internet fuckwit like you.

The ridiculously high amounts of hypocrisy and empty threats of violence amuse me. Shows who the truly close minded one is, doesn't it? 

You're going to go to hell a hateful little child molester with a hard drive filled with gay lolicon. Because it's always your type who do the true evils in this world.

My type? What's my type?

Or do you mean the type that is so intolerant of other peoples idea's that they make threats of violence, obsessive tirades about someones supposed lack of penal side, fantasizes about people who disagree that they die?

Now quit hating,

Only hate that is so obviously shown is every word that comes out of your mouth towards people who do not share your ideals.

leave your tiny penis alone,

Obsessing about my penis again? Really?

and please shut your fucking mouth before you try and talk with adults again.

I'm conversing with adults? Are you sure about that? I need documentation. Because that's impossible.

You're terrible at debate,

Sorry not everyone can go off on obsessive tirades about peoples penises like you. I will admit, if that is what encompasses debate, you are the master.

and probably every thing else in life too. Get a job.

Wny? Liberals make it so much more appealing to be unemployed.

It'll fix that desire you have to spout off like an uneducated halfwit in the productive hours of the day.

Sorry I have not done enough psychadelic drugs to completely blur the lines of reality and ones own distorted illusion yet.

Share?

No use of your own words?

Would that be your attempt at conceding my debate?

Or are you unable to actually be able to read the difference between bold, and unbold.

It's a pretty scathing difference...

There's no debate there. You made a textuial mess rather than try to construct any sort of argument to stand on its own merit. At worst you look like an idiot, at best it's sad trolling.

You're right. There is no debate. Because I completely annihilated every single point you made, and you knowing defeat but being too much of a dishonorable coward, you plead an inability to comprehend well punctuated english.

It's ok to lose. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've been made an ass of, nor the last.

But hey, maybe if you try really hard at keeping an endless stream of ad hominems coming and anytime you get made a fool of you pull out the always faithful, "You're a moron. I win" card, you'll get somewhere!...

Sorry, I can't lie. No...You'll still be made an ass out of by anyone and everyone that has an IQ higher than an idaho spud.

Feel free anytime to pick a debate with me again, and I will more than happy be willing to humiliate you again.

Humilate? Hardly. Form a proper paragraph with some logic and we'll talk. Until then you're just an ignorant bigot.

You apparantly don't understand how this whole thing works. That's fine.

Just keep your mouth shut, it prevents your cause looking like it's being fought  for by a bunch of fools, and also prevent's the halfway intelligent from reading your drivel.

When you can actually debate an argument, feel free. Until then, go back to middle school, it'll suit you much more thoroughly.

"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis

"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979

  Kawi1

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/09
Posts: 33

6/28/11 11:16:09 AM#116
Originally posted by baff
Originally posted by Kawi1
 

 

As for bestiality...it's not even a logical argument. Sex with animals does not even come close to sex between humans much less marriage.

 Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Hey look, if you want to sex it up with man's best friend (or any other four-legged creature) then that's your choice.  I think however, that you much prefer trolls.

  generals3

Novice Member

Joined: 11/22/04
Posts: 3306

6/28/11 11:41:50 AM#117
Originally posted by baff
Originally posted by generals3
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

A:
 Bestalists? really? the mere fact you don't know what would go horribly wrong there is kinda sad. But let me tell it to you. Hey dog , do you take mister X to be your husband. "Woef?" . Ye i can see the consent right there!

And secondly, we aren't even talking about human beings here. Oh i know, i can see the use to giving alimony to a cat right there! 

Seriously, next time just type "hur dur dur dur". That would be even smarter than that.

 

B: Polygamy could be acceptable in that sense. However it does kinda break the whole "commitment" part linked to a marriage. Now ok some people may be able to do it, but i don't think one man can truly commit to multiple partners at the same time or even claim he "loves" them all. But hey if you think that a gender issue is the same as a quantity issue , sure , go ahead, go protest for it.

C: Incest can actually lead to nefast effects if it involves reprocreation. Indeed, the odds of having a handicapped child is MUCH higher if it comes from an incestuous couple. Now if we can force them to not have children, sure , go ahead. Don't give a shit.

 And anal sex spreads killer diseases.

If you are on some mad health tip, gay isn't really the way forward.

Correct, however it's their own health they fuck up. Not the one of a third party like children from incestuous relations.

Fere libenter homines id quod volunt credunt.
Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress.

  baff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 9470

6/28/11 2:17:31 PM#118
Originally posted by Kawi1
Originally posted by baff
Originally posted by Kawi1
 

 

As for bestiality...it's not even a logical argument. Sex with animals does not even come close to sex between humans much less marriage.

 Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Hey look, if you want to sex it up with man's best friend (or any other four-legged creature) then that's your choice.  I think however, that you much prefer trolls.

 Donkeys.

An orgy without a donkey doesn't really count.

  baff

Novice Member

Joined: 5/22/05
Posts: 9470

6/28/11 2:19:22 PM#119
Originally posted by generals3
Originally posted by baff
Originally posted by generals3
Originally posted by Zindaihas

Unfortunately, polygamists, incestuous couples and bestialists are still being left out in the cold.  Maybe someday true equality will come to all.

A:
 Bestalists? really? the mere fact you don't know what would go horribly wrong there is kinda sad. But let me tell it to you. Hey dog , do you take mister X to be your husband. "Woef?" . Ye i can see the consent right there!

And secondly, we aren't even talking about human beings here. Oh i know, i can see the use to giving alimony to a cat right there! 

Seriously, next time just type "hur dur dur dur". That would be even smarter than that.

 

B: Polygamy could be acceptable in that sense. However it does kinda break the whole "commitment" part linked to a marriage. Now ok some people may be able to do it, but i don't think one man can truly commit to multiple partners at the same time or even claim he "loves" them all. But hey if you think that a gender issue is the same as a quantity issue , sure , go ahead, go protest for it.

C: Incest can actually lead to nefast effects if it involves reprocreation. Indeed, the odds of having a handicapped child is MUCH higher if it comes from an incestuous couple. Now if we can force them to not have children, sure , go ahead. Don't give a shit.

 And anal sex spreads killer diseases.

If you are on some mad health tip, gay isn't really the way forward.

Correct, however it's their own health they fuck up. Not the one of a third party like children from incestuous relations.

 I take it incest is ok with you as long folk use a condom.

 

I have a basic test. If it sounds like the plot from a Jerry Springer show, it's best not to be encouraged.

  C-B-M

Novice Member

Joined: 5/03/11
Posts: 2661

6/28/11 6:11:00 PM#120

There is no basis for preventing any of the above conditions, based on the arguments of homosexuals.

Bestiality is not harming the animal.  If we have to go on the argument of "non-consensual," then we should not have any pets, either, as there was no consent, regardless of whether YOU personally think it benefits the animal.  It is established that we don't need consent from animals.  Therefore, the question only hangs on whether it is acceptable to marry an animal.  Since it "doesn't affect you," I don't see why not.

Polygamy is also acceptable because "who are you to stop people who love each other from getting married?"  The fact that YOU think that multiple people cannot sustain such a relationship is irrelevant.  You are not here to judge the quality of a relationship.  Therefore, multiple people can get married.

Incest is also acceptable, since it is irrelevant whether the children will have any higher rate of problems.  Proof?  It is permissible for people with Down's syndrome to get married and have children, KNOWING that their offspring will have a high rate of having Down's syndrome.  Women are permitted to have children at any age they want, even though we KNOW that the older a woman is, the higher risk she has of having a complicated pregnancy or a baby with medical problems.  Therefore, incestuous relationships are to be allowed to culminate in marriage.

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