Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

The pay 2 win definition in its most simple form is just paying real life cash for in game goods that are part of the game and give you the player an instantaneous advantage without having to play the game for any period of time.

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Except acquiring something at different time requirement isn't an advantage thus you failed.

Every player makes different ISK per hour. One sells PLEX, the other sells something else. It is just different commodity they make their ISK off. Do players that make more ISK per hour have advantage over those who make less? No, they don't.

 

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

Ofc players that make more money have an advantage over others, do rich ppl in real life have an advantage over poor ppl?

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by rav3n2

Its funny seeing ppl trying to justify how the plex system is not a pay 2 win, whether it goes back to the economy or not, and whether or not someone else ALSO benefits from it ( i.e. the plex seller ) it doesnt matter, a pay 2 win is as simple as, if I start now with nothing and I have £100k of disposable income I could get instantly a very good character, a very good ship, a lot of isk to blow up ships over and over again. I PAID to get this with RL cash its that simple.

The only difference between this system and the new system they propose is that it removes the middle man, I dont have to sell anything it is still pay 2 win, and yes it does damage the economy but from a player who is doing it perspective it is exactly the same he paid RL money for in game stuff.

Edit:

To respond to the post talking about them going F2P all they would probably be doing is converting the PLEX directly into whatever cash shop currency they would use, just because it would cost them nothing and it would essentially keep its value, with the advantage they suddently just made a bunch of cash turn into in game items they essentially generate for free off the server instead of their time ( server time and bandwith ).

I asked a short question earlier, not to you but anywway.

 

One players buys GTC, converts that to PLEX and then buy the bestest pixelship ever. The player that sells that 'bestest pixelship', he will then receive all this ISK.

This ISK then gives the seller of the 'bestest pixelship' the exact same possibilities as the PLEX seller, and assumingly this shipseller will sell more ship and earn even more ISK.

What difference do those two have when it comes to ingame advantage?

You are either missing the point  completely or you simply cant grasp the concept,

If you had anything useful to say I stoped reading there. I am pretty shure that whatever you stated efter will mean that the exact same thing can be said to you.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by rav3n2

Its funny seeing ppl trying to justify how the plex system is not a pay 2 win, whether it goes back to the economy or not, and whether or not someone else ALSO benefits from it ( i.e. the plex seller ) it doesnt matter, a pay 2 win is as simple as, if I start now with nothing and I have £100k of disposable income I could get instantly a very good character, a very good ship, a lot of isk to blow up ships over and over again. I PAID to get this with RL cash its that simple.

The only difference between this system and the new system they propose is that it removes the middle man, I dont have to sell anything it is still pay 2 win, and yes it does damage the economy but from a player who is doing it perspective it is exactly the same he paid RL money for in game stuff.

Edit:

To respond to the post talking about them going F2P all they would probably be doing is converting the PLEX directly into whatever cash shop currency they would use, just because it would cost them nothing and it would essentially keep its value, with the advantage they suddently just made a bunch of cash turn into in game items they essentially generate for free off the server instead of their time ( server time and bandwith ).

I asked a short question earlier, not to you but anywway.

 

One players buys GTC, converts that to PLEX and then buy the bestest pixelship ever. The player that sells that 'bestest pixelship', he will then receive all this ISK.

This ISK then gives the seller of the 'bestest pixelship' the exact same possibilities as the PLEX seller, and assumingly this shipseller will sell more ship and earn even more ISK.

What difference do those two have when it comes to ingame advantage?

You are either missing the point  completely or you simply cant grasp the concept,

 

If you had anything useful to say I stoped reading there. I am pretty shure that whatever you stated efter will mean that the exact same thing can be said to you.

You choose to be ignorant? That's your god-given right.

Just stop trying to discuss this matter any further, atleast untill you look up the definition of the word "discuss".

Here lets just clear this up.   Rich kids> sells plex>ingame player buys plex> rich kid has more isk now. How this seems like p2w but it really isnt and here is why. 1. GTC's were being sold in eve for years 30 day and 60 day and what eve did was remove the 30 day gtc and converet to a Plex  to give players a way to gain more isk, however this isk came from a player ingame , that the game generated.

2. That is that said rich kid made is fun in all but he advantage is actually limited to supply of ships the players create, You introduce items from thin air that give the said rich kid an endless supply of ships and mods, eliminating the need for a market all together and allowing said rich kidto find others like him and attempt to run the game. THis will turn a player driven enconomy into a Wallet driven economy. Which inturn slowly kills off the need for builders ingame and  drives them away.

Now if that doesnt better explain it then get your head examined. If ccp adds ships/mods/SP to their item mall it will literally kill the game and all game play mechanics. Also this gives RMTer's free reign over eve considering they have trillions of isk and lots of RL $$$ and cpp will hand them the tools they need to run eve in any way they see fit. WHich in the end drives players away till your pop goes from 350k down to 5k n the 5k being the spenders.  This is alot more to this and CCP  cant be allowed to do this. Hence why the playerbase is raging atm.  Plex doesnt give an advatange as their supply is limited atm. but a Item mall lets them have an endless supply.  Get the Picture now or ya want it painted for ya? this is a game the revolves around crafting, everything does, so any ingame item say ammo or drones or mods or ships thats added has a massive effect on the games market.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by rav3n2

Its funny seeing ppl trying to justify how the plex system is not a pay 2 win, whether it goes back to the economy or not, and whether or not someone else ALSO benefits from it ( i.e. the plex seller ) it doesnt matter, a pay 2 win is as simple as, if I start now with nothing and I have £100k of disposable income I could get instantly a very good character, a very good ship, a lot of isk to blow up ships over and over again. I PAID to get this with RL cash its that simple.

The only difference between this system and the new system they propose is that it removes the middle man, I dont have to sell anything it is still pay 2 win, and yes it does damage the economy but from a player who is doing it perspective it is exactly the same he paid RL money for in game stuff.

Edit:

To respond to the post talking about them going F2P all they would probably be doing is converting the PLEX directly into whatever cash shop currency they would use, just because it would cost them nothing and it would essentially keep its value, with the advantage they suddently just made a bunch of cash turn into in game items they essentially generate for free off the server instead of their time ( server time and bandwith ).

I asked a short question earlier, not to you but anywway.

 

One players buys GTC, converts that to PLEX and then buy the bestest pixelship ever. The player that sells that 'bestest pixelship', he will then receive all this ISK.

This ISK then gives the seller of the 'bestest pixelship' the exact same possibilities as the PLEX seller, and assumingly this shipseller will sell more ship and earn even more ISK.

What difference do those two have when it comes to ingame advantage?

You are either missing the point  completely or you simply cant grasp the concept,

 

If you had anything useful to say I stoped reading there. I am pretty shure that whatever you stated efter will mean that the exact same thing can be said to you.

You choose to be ignorant? That's your god-given right.

Just stop trying to discuss this matter any further, atleast untill you look up the definition of the word "discuss".

Shure... He basically said that, with the ssumption that everyone discuss a point/argument they believe in, - No I am right and you are wrong and if you don't think I'm right then you simply don't understand.

And whatever being said I am pretty shure that he believes in his argument, hence the discussion already ended there. Because well I assume he don't agree with me and then it is simply him missing the point or not grasping the concept, is it not?

Originally posted by Orphes

 Shure... He basically said that, with the ssumption that everyone discuss a point/argument they believe in, - No I am right and you are wrong and if you don't think I'm right then you simply don't understand.

 

And whatever being said I am pretty shure that he believes in his argument, hence the discussion already ended there.

Saying that you do not understand, hardly equals "I'm right and you're wrong". You chose not to read his extremely viable post, meaning you simply won't have anyone disagreeing with you, meaning there is nothing to discuss with you.

You can try and spin around that all you want.

Originally posted by fatboy21007

Here lets just clear this up.   Rich kids> sells plex>ingame player buys plex> rich kid has more isk now. How this seems like p2w but it really isnt and here is why. 1. GTC's were being sold in eve for years 30 day and 60 day and what eve did was remove the 30 day gtc and converet to a Plex  to give players a way to gain more isk, however this isk came from a player ingame , that the game generated.

2. That is that said rich kid made is fun in all but he advantage is actually limited to supply of ships the players create, You introduce items from thin air that give the said rich kid an endless supply of ships and mods, eliminating the need for a market all together and allowing said rich kidto find others like him and attempt to run the game. THis will turn a player driven enconomy into a Wallet driven economy. Which inturn slowly kills off the need for builders ingame and  drives them away.

 

Now if that doesnt better explain it then get your head examined. If ccp adds ships/mods/SP to their item mall it will literally kill the game and all game play mechanics. Also this gives RMTer's free reign over eve considering they have trillions of isk and lots of RL $$$ and cpp will hand them the tools they need to run eve in any way they see fit. WHich in the end drives players away till your pop goes from 350k down to 5k n the 5k being the spenders.  This is alot more to this and CCP  cant be allowed to do this. Hence why the playerbase is raging atm.  Plex doesnt give an advatange as their supply is limited atm. but a Item mall lets them have an endless supply.  Get the Picture now or ya want it painted for ya? this is a game the revolves around crafting, everything does, so any ingame item say ammo or drones or mods or ships thats added has a massive effect on the games market.

Ok let me just add this I agree with you, generating ships and items that can be sold or even if they cant out of cash will destroy a player driven economy, ppl will be able to just bypass everyone else period. This is not a good solution and will just damage the game.

Now what I dont agree is PLEX not being pay 2 win, the PLEX value is given by its current demand, there is a demand for PLEX at 380mil a pop, that is how much it is worth, whether I am given a gold bar IRL that is worth 1million pounds or a million pounds in cash it is exactly the same thing I was given 1million pounds for nothing, if I am given a gold bar then I will have to convert it to cash, someone will have to give me money they have earned, but now there is 1million pounds more in the economy, the gold bar is still worth that much, when I put a PLEX into the economy and I sell it a player gives me 380mil isk but he gets 380mil ISK the economy now has an extra 380mil that was generated and put onto it out of thin air, the PLEX doesnt suddently loose its value.

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

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Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

---

 

Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

 

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

Hey I do agree with you having more isk or money doesnt make a person better, it doesnt matter how you get your isk at ALL, if I bought 100billion worth of PLEX  would that make a better player than the guy skillfully flying a rifter NO, no advantage playing wise at all.

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

This system will not stop an already good pilot of becoming better, if I am extremely good and all I am missing is the funds to achieve something I could essentially pay 2 win.

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

---

 

Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

 

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

 

Hey I do agree with you having more isk or money doesnt make a person better, it doesnt matter how you get your isk at ALL, if I bought 100billion worth of PLEX  would that make a better player than the guy skillfully flying a rifter NO, no advantage playing wise at all.

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

not sure how you equate amassing isk with pay 2 win... as their totally unrelated..  amassing isk in Eve actually doesnt achieve anything..  it doesnt allow you to do more, not does it earn you respect in game.. Eve doesnt have that kind of yardstick by which pilots are measured.. but if you truly were an Eve player.. you would at least recognise that single fact.  and those assets you have amassed.. can be stolen from you..  .. something to bear in mind when you contemplate how uber you are over your iskies..  perhaps you can tell us your ingame name

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Originally posted by rav3n2

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

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Or bypassing to grind at all or scam at all or w/e flies your boat about how you make your ISK.

Having more options is only positive. More options, the better.

That isn't traditionally labeled as Pay-2-Win.

Pay-2-Win means that there is an exclusive option affecting the game play and/or competitiveness available only to those who spend their real cash on the game. That is what advantage and Pay-2-Win is.

As I said previously, powerful items in cash shops are not a problem of micro-transactions, they are problem of game balance same way as any item or class being overpowered and/or available to limited group of people only.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

---

 

Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

 

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

 

Hey I do agree with you having more isk or money doesnt make a person better, it doesnt matter how you get your isk at ALL, if I bought 100billion worth of PLEX  would that make a better player than the guy skillfully flying a rifter NO, no advantage playing wise at all.

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

not sure how you equate amassing isk with pay 2 win... as their totally unrelated..  amassing isk in Eve actually doesnt achieve anything..  it doesnt allow you to do more, not does it earn you respect in game.. Eve doesnt have that kind of yardstick by which pilots are measured.. but if you truly were an Eve player.. you would at least recognise that single fact.  and those assets you have amassed.. can be stolen from you..  .. something to bear in mind when you contemplate how uber you are over your iskies..  perhaps you can tell us your ingame name

So I cant just go out of my way with all the ISK I have pilled up and just buy a better character, lets say I am a new player, I do the tutorials, join EVE university and I like the game, I then decide that I want to join a decent corporation and be part of something bigger, the first problem I encounter is them saying "So we appreciate your enthusiasm but you only have 1mil SP and we are really looking for pilots with around 15mil", if I didnt have any cash, I would just have to wait it out, but if I had a lot fo spare RL cash I could just buy a few PLEX sell them and buy a 15mil SP character, next day I join the corporation.

Now buying PLEX did allow me to do more, it only has to be meaningfull to you personally, I understand where you are coming from, you are right you will probably not affect the game in any meaningful way just by having isk or just rule the world so to speak, but you can still do more.

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

---

 

Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

 

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

 

Hey I do agree with you having more isk or money doesnt make a person better, it doesnt matter how you get your isk at ALL, if I bought 100billion worth of PLEX  would that make a better player than the guy skillfully flying a rifter NO, no advantage playing wise at all.

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

not sure how you equate amassing isk with pay 2 win... as their totally unrelated..  amassing isk in Eve actually doesnt achieve anything..  it doesnt allow you to do more, not does it earn you respect in game.. Eve doesnt have that kind of yardstick by which pilots are measured.. but if you truly were an Eve player.. you would at least recognise that single fact.  and those assets you have amassed.. can be stolen from you..  .. something to bear in mind when you contemplate how uber you are over your iskies..  perhaps you can tell us your ingame name

 

So I cant just go out of my way with all the ISK I have pilled up and just buy a better character, lets say I am a new player, I do the tutorials, join EVE university and I like the game, I then decide that I want to join a decent corporation and be part of something bigger, the first problem I encounter is them saying "So we appreciate your enthusiasm but you only have 1mil SP and we are really looking for pilots with around 15mil", if I didnt have any cash, I would just have to wait it out, but if I had a lot fo spare RL cash I could just buy a few PLEX sell them and buy a 15mil SP character, next day I join the corporation.

Now buying PLEX did allow me to do more, it only has to be meaningfull to you personally, I understand where you are coming from, you are right you will probably not affect the game in any meaningful way just by having isk or just rule the world so to speak, but you can still do more.

Corps often do have entry requirements.. and if its a 0.0 alliance that regularly gets involved in Sov etc.. then having more cap pilots, or fleet support is a necessity...  but not sure how you think that a new player should immediately be able to enter into high level PVP without first learning how to play the game...  most Corps don't have an SP requirement for joining - its interest related, the most common type of Corp to have a SP requirement for joining, are PVP corps, and the requirement is usually over 5 million sp..  and it doesnt exactly take a long time to get that much...  but lets for instance.. say.. you sold a whole bunch of Plex's and bought yourself an experienced pilot, one with 15 million SP..  and you used that pilot to join one of those Corps..  it would be obvious almost immediately, that you didnt know what you were doing, you would be a liability in every sense of the word in any activity that the Corp undertook, because the one thing you cannot buy with Isk.. and which is the most important factor of the game, is experience, real experience, and knowledge of the game....

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by rav3n2

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by rav3n2

Again grasping at straws the wrong straws really, doesnt change the fact I made isk out of my real life cash and I paid 2 win that isk, I didnt have to be in game, you played all day to make 1billion isk, I can come home and just at a click of a button pay 2 win that much isk without having played anything. 

---

 

Only one grasping at straws here is you, sir.

You failed to provide a single argument how does it matter how I got my ISK, which is crucial and missing point in your reasoning.

Hint: It does not matter.

 

Rich people do not have an advantage over poor people, they can just afford more.

You can be "rich" because you bought lots of PLEX, you were grinding till your eyes bled or you just played the game smart. There is no exclusivity, there are just different ways to get ISK, no more no less.

 

Hey I do agree with you having more isk or money doesnt make a person better, it doesnt matter how you get your isk at ALL, if I bought 100billion worth of PLEX  would that make a better player than the guy skillfully flying a rifter NO, no advantage playing wise at all.

But at the end of the day I have acquired in game assets through real life cash bypassing the need to play smart at all, in what is traditionally labelled pay 2 win, that is all I am asserting.

not sure how you equate amassing isk with pay 2 win... as their totally unrelated..  amassing isk in Eve actually doesnt achieve anything..  it doesnt allow you to do more, not does it earn you respect in game.. Eve doesnt have that kind of yardstick by which pilots are measured.. but if you truly were an Eve player.. you would at least recognise that single fact.  and those assets you have amassed.. can be stolen from you..  .. something to bear in mind when you contemplate how uber you are over your iskies..  perhaps you can tell us your ingame name

 

So I cant just go out of my way with all the ISK I have pilled up and just buy a better character, lets say I am a new player, I do the tutorials, join EVE university and I like the game, I then decide that I want to join a decent corporation and be part of something bigger, the first problem I encounter is them saying "So we appreciate your enthusiasm but you only have 1mil SP and we are really looking for pilots with around 15mil", if I didnt have any cash, I would just have to wait it out, but if I had a lot fo spare RL cash I could just buy a few PLEX sell them and buy a 15mil SP character, next day I join the corporation.

Now buying PLEX did allow me to do more, it only has to be meaningfull to you personally, I understand where you are coming from, you are right you will probably not affect the game in any meaningful way just by having isk or just rule the world so to speak, but you can still do more.

Corps often do have entry requirements.. and if its a 0.0 alliance that regularly gets involved in Sov etc.. then having more cap pilots, or fleet support is a necessity...  but not sure how you think that a new player should immediately be able to enter into high level PVP without first learning how to play the game...  most Corps don't have an SP requirement for joining - its interest related, the most common type of Corp to have a SP requirement for joining, are PVP corps, and the requirement is usually over 5 million sp..  and it doesnt exactly take a long time to get that much...  but lets for instance.. say.. you sold a whole bunch of Plex's and bought yourself an experienced pilot, one with 15 million SP..  and you used that pilot to join one of those Corps..  it would be obvious almost immediately, that you didnt know what you were doing, you would be a liability in every sense of the word in any activity that the Corp undertook, because the one thing you cannot buy with Isk.. and which is the most important factor of the game, is experience, real experience, and knowledge of the game....

Ok absolutely point taken about knowledge of the game, but what about in a situation of a player that has 40mil SP and lots of experience being able to buy a 60mil SP pilot? Does he suffer the same learning difficulties or does he just get the advantage of having more SP essentially without having to spend the training time waiting?

Plex is a way for a player to buy ISK and even if people want to say that this is not a RMT they are wrong. Part of the issue as that the people saying it isn't RMT seem to have an odd view of how ISK is generated in the game as if somehow it is fixed. People work to earn some ISK and then trade it for a PLEX and if the PLEX hadn't existed they probably wouldn't have gone to the effort of generating that new ISK from mining or mission running.

What Plex to ISK does do is give the money for this transaction to CCP instead of a professional gold farmer and that is probably a good thing on a couple of fronts as it provides a supply for the deman of easy to acquire ISK in exchange for cash and helps reduce the professional bots somewhat. The problem is that it is probably too late for the game as it is swamped with gold farmers and really not much fun to play any more.

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by gainesvilleg

That is the basic definition of pay2win.

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No, it isn't.

I can buy same better ships, fittings, even veteran characters, etc. with ISK grinded and with ISK obtained via trading PLEX. There is no advantage. Nada.

 

So I follow your own definition and ask you again:

 

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Originally posted by Gdemami

I grind for 6 hours amd make 372M ISK.
I trade PLEX for 372M ISK.

Where is the advantage of PLEX trader? What is that one can do with 372M ISK and the other with 372M ISK can't do?

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While you're busy grinding ISK for 6 hours the player who purchased his PLEX is in your home system knocking the door down with his purchased capital ships. 

Granted, I don't know of anyone who's purchased a titan for cash, but the concept is there.  I do know people who never PVE in any way shape or form, just buy PLEX to purchase their ships.  Doesn't really give them a ship vs ship advantage, but while I spend 50% or more of my time doing PVE they are honing their PVP skill 100% of the time.

As someone else said, its not the type of P2W where cash shop purchase get you items with superior stats, that sort of stuff really is evil and would be the end of EVE for me.

 

 

 

Plex sales does not add any isk to the economy. It has to be earned by someone, therefore, it is just like any other item in the game as well. In fact the game has much higher valued items than plexes.

You help to pay someone's monthly subscription by purchasing a plex while stimulating economy by trickeling down isk. Most veteran players really have no accute need for few hundred million isks. The system is there mostly to help newbies while giving veterans an option to subscribe to the game without having to pay with real money. It only has a positive impact on the economy. 

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by cosy

 Well, I agree PLEX is better integrated with the economy, but it is still pay 2 win.

plz post again when you manage to get 70 billions ISK whit PLEX in one week

 Current market rate looks to be 372,000,000 ISK per PLEX.   Your point is what exactly?  That since a PLEX isn't worth 70 billion ISK it isn't pay2win?  Pay2win is defined as using real world money to buy in game advantage.  For example, spending $15 of real world money to buy 372,000,000 ISK.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Orphes

 Shure... He basically said that, with the ssumption that everyone discuss a point/argument they believe in, - No I am right and you are wrong and if you don't think I'm right then you simply don't understand.

 

And whatever being said I am pretty shure that he believes in his argument, hence the discussion already ended there.

Saying that you do not understand, hardly equals "I'm right and you're wrong". You chose not to read his extremely viable post, meaning you simply won't have anyone disagreeing with you, meaning there is nothing to discuss with you.

You can try and spin around that all you want.

You are either missing my point  completely or you simply cant grasp the concept of what i am saying.

You can purchase veteran chars with isk using the plex system? Or is it the same as selling your level 85 priest in WoW for a couple of thousand gold or selling it through ebay? 

Im kind of confused...The last time I played, it was i$irl -> plex -> isk  only and not isk-> char transfers or plex -> char transfers o.o

Edit:

titan ship? with no guild backing? d00d you are going to get ownd faster than you can say BOOBIIESSS o.o

Oh and it takes roughly umm...2? years to be a titan pilot iirc o.o