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Star Wars Galaxies

Star Wars Galaxies 

General Discussion  » Shutting down instead of F2P?

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59 posts found
  Obee

Novice Member

Joined: 8/07/06
Posts: 1560

6/24/11 11:24:51 PM#21
Originally posted by Fendel84M

I'm willing to bet SOE coulda renewed the license if they really wanted to. But they prly realized it was not worth the cost and Lucas Arts was just like "Ya, thats fine." SOE has a lot of other games and new ones on the way, they are keeping the whole team from SWG to use on another project, i'm sure it made sense for various reasons.

 

This.  The game's population is low enough that neither LEC or SOE felt it was worth continuing to support it.  To change it into a free to play game would take a significant investment, which would never turn enough of a profit to make it worth doing.  Better to shut it down and move on.

On the other hand, SOE could always auction off the rights to unplug the servers.  Given the amount of hostility towards the game from former players on every game site I've visited that is discussing the shutdown, they could probably make a nice chunk of cash.

 

  Ardwulf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 284

6/25/11 2:19:05 AM#22
Originally posted by kaiser3282
 Only a few games have gone from P2P to F2P, the majority of them in the past year, and are still going. DDO was the first big one to do it, and its even moree succesful now than it was when it was P2P.  
So....youre basing your statements on what exactly?

On a knee-jerk opposition to f2p, one supposes.  Indeed, DDO is far more successful than it ever was under a sub plan.  I would argue that this increased success has in fact made it  a better game than it was, too, since it's getting a lot more development effort now, and more players improve such a group-orinented game immensely.

What is true, though, is that f2p is seen as a miracle cure for failing games.  There's some truth to this, but there's exceptions too.  Turbine took a solid but weakly-performing game and made it into a major player, and took a major player and made it a noticably bigger.  The f2p-haters can rant about it all they like, but facts are facts, and ultimately the consumer is free to choose a subscription over playing something for free and paying here and there.

In the long run, of course, we will find out that f2p is not actually a miracle cure; right now it seems like one because to many people it's an appealing alternative to a subscription and the market for them is not yet crowded, but there's a lot of competition coming up with AoC, Fallen Earth and City of Heroes all moving to f2p this year, with a couple of others likely to see at least an announcement before January.  At some point - no more than a year or two from now, and maybe as soon as the end of this year - the f2p market will be as saturated as the subscription market was, and it will no longer be possible to rejuvenate a game like DDO with it.  We also have the factor of imperfect f2p implementations to contend with (see EQ2X for one example.)

For me, f2p got me playing two games that I otherwise would not have invested in; one of them, LotRO, I have probably spent just as much on as I would have with a subscription, but I've been able to pay at my own pace, which suits me.  As a lifetimer for another transitioned game (Champions Online) I am happy that the game is doing better now and happy with Cryptic's handling of subs and lifers.  And I plan to give Fallen Earth a much-deserved shot when it goes free as well.  It's good to have options; f2p is just another option, and in every example thus far one also has the option of just paying the subscription and not folling with all the microtransactions.

As for SWG, there was no chance that it would go free to play.  I predicted that LucasArts would pull the plug around the SWTOR release, and that's exactly what happened.  I predict right now that SWTOR will launch within 90 days of the SWG shutdown.

  Ardwulf

Novice Member

Joined: 10/27/10
Posts: 284

6/25/11 2:29:02 AM#23
Originally posted by Fendel84M
 Suggesting that F2P is half way to death is whats wrong. No MMO that went from P2P to F2P has died, in fact they are all successful now. The decision to go F2P is because they are having trouble on their own as a p2p yes. But f2p creates a new market for them in which players are willing to come try it out and often enjoy the game and spend some money on it. DDO has more actual subscriptions now than it did when it was full p2p only.
We all know a lot of games launch with issues, once these issues are addressed most are not willing to shell out money to play it up front. But f2p creates news and gets people logging on. It also taps into a whole market of players who only play f2p games and never consider trying p2p.

It's a stretch to say that every f2p transition has resulted in a more successful game.  One example would be Pirates of the Burning Sea.  While I see more talk about people trying in than I did, I've seen no evidence that it's a much more successful game than it was.

The real appeal of f2p is that it lowers the barrier of entry to zero.  Thus people will try the game who would not have been comfortable dropping money on a box or sub before being sure they'd like it. Some percentage of those people will like it, and stick around, and many of those will eventually spend some money on it, which is more than the publisher would have gotten otherwise.  Since, despite the cries of some, f2p has yet to ruin any game that's moved to it, the vast majority of the players who liked it before the switch also stick around.

I'm not saying that anti-f2p sentiment has no basis, mind - there are a number of factors that are worrying.  But the common fears have simply not materialized thus far for a variety of reasons.  One example would be the constantly-mentioned idea that f2p will bring in large quantities of idiots who will then destroy the game's community.  I am concerned that this might happen with Age of Conan, for example, because of the current dynamics within that game's community.  But I have also been through several of these transitions now, as a player, and it hasn't happened yet.  It's going to be something that we'll have to judge on a case-by-case basis.

  Nasja

Novice Member

Joined: 5/02/11
Posts: 47

6/25/11 7:16:15 AM#24

Well, I guess I am one of many that are the problem. I wasn't going to leave swg for swtor but, I am not going to change my opinion now either. Definately not when the choice is taken away. I may play tor for perhaps a month, see the story. Then delete my toon, cancel sub and say..

Thank you for this game. Can you now please give me the tools to earn my x-wing, create some rebel characters and enable me to crush some stormtroopers / imperial players and hopefully also star destroyers, death stars and have speederbike chase and atmosperic flight.. please?

Thank you, see you in 5 years.

  Sensai

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 92

6/25/11 7:36:53 AM#25
Originally posted by Cacaphony
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Cacaphony
Originally posted by Robokapp

 

am i wrong?

 Yeah... I think you are.  You did a mighty fine job of assuming things, and not such a good job proving anything.

 well...I wouldnt need posting if I KNEW I'm right. But I'll need to see a flaw in my logic pointed out otherwise between my original thoughts and nothing, I'll have to stick to what I think so far.

 

so why am I wrong?

 You assume that F2P is a natural step to a games death.  If that is so, are games that release as free to play half dead already?  Was Guild Wars half dead on launch?  Is it dead now?  Guild wars has been out for years now, so when is it going to "die"?

 Yes.  Yes.  Life support.  When people wake up and realize they are playing a single player online rpg with dueling that was never anything special to begin with.

Only on this site would people think that f2p is anything but a step down from p2p.  You can twist it anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is that p2p is the desired model and the reason most mmorpgs at least try to run the p2p model.  How many true mmorpg developers set out to make a f2p game?  I think its also important to note that GW really should not be tossed into the f2p discussion as unlike the bulk of f2p games, you had to buy the box.

F2P by its very definition means that the game was not good enough to run under a p2p model.  If you have a large subscription base, p2p will always generate more revenue than a f2p.  F2Ps only shine in a lower population model wherein the cash shop + limited subscriptions can actually overtake the full subscription income from a p2p title.

I honestly do not know why people even argue this point.  The f2p titles are simply not up to the same standards as the p2p titles.  The only one you can kind of argue is LOTRO, and it is pretty stagnant in its own right.  Its only saving grace is that they do make fairly regular updates.  DDO sat in the exact same state for what, 3 years until this last update?  Just because a game has more people playing as f2p than it did as a p2p does not mean that f2p is a better model.  This is the true failure in logic.  Hell, to me, this is really simple.  If you have to give it away for free because not enough people will pay for it speaks for itself.  And like Cacaphony suggest, when we see a healthy, high populated game move to a f2p model, then we can start to have a valid discussion about the equality of the models.  Until then, a move to f2p means you could not cut it.

  ormstunga

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/22/04
Posts: 752

stupid is as stupid does

6/25/11 7:54:55 AM#26
Originally posted by Sensai
Originally posted by Cacaphony
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Cacaphony
Originally posted by Robokapp

 

am i wrong?

 Yeah... I think you are.  You did a mighty fine job of assuming things, and not such a good job proving anything.

 well...I wouldnt need posting if I KNEW I'm right. But I'll need to see a flaw in my logic pointed out otherwise between my original thoughts and nothing, I'll have to stick to what I think so far.

 

so why am I wrong?

 You assume that F2P is a natural step to a games death.  If that is so, are games that release as free to play half dead already?  Was Guild Wars half dead on launch?  Is it dead now?  Guild wars has been out for years now, so when is it going to "die"?

 Yes.  Yes.  Life support.  When people wake up and realize they are playing a single player online rpg with dueling that was never anything special to begin with.

Only on this site would people think that f2p is anything but a step down from p2p.  You can twist it anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is that p2p is the desired model and the reason most mmorpgs at least try to run the p2p model.  How many true mmorpg developers set out to make a f2p game?  I think its also important to note that GW really should not be tossed into the f2p discussion as unlike the bulk of f2p games, you had to buy the box.

F2P by its very definition means that the game was not good enough to run under a p2p model.  If you have a large subscription base, p2p will always generate more revenue than a f2p.  F2Ps only shine in a lower population model wherein the cash shop + limited subscriptions can actually overtake the full subscription income from a p2p title.

I honestly do not know why people even argue this point.  The f2p titles are simply not up to the same standards as the p2p titles.  The only one you can kind of argue is LOTRO, and it is pretty stagnant in its own right.  Its only saving grace is that they do make fairly regular updates.  DDO sat in the exact same state for what, 3 years until this last update?  Just because a game has more people playing as f2p than it did as a p2p does not mean that f2p is a better model.  This is the true failure in logic.  Hell, to me, this is really simple.  If you have to give it away for free because not enough people will pay for it speaks for itself.  And like Cacaphony suggest, when we see a healthy, high populated game move to a f2p model, then we can start to have a valid discussion about the equality of the models.  Until then, a move to f2p means you could not cut it.

 Alot of "facts" here. For future reference, its called opinion.

And most games do not try to run a p2p model. Just check the list on this very site and see how many cash shop games there are. The f2p market has millions of players, dont kid yourself.

The reason for choosing a f2p model is purely financial.

 

 If you have a large subscription base, p2p will always generate more revenue than a f2p.  F2Ps only shine in a lower population model wherein the cash shop + limited subscriptions can actually overtake the full subscription income from a p2p title.

Are you saying that in a low pop game, the players are more willing to pay for stuff? I dont see why they would be. Is this another fact? ;)

  DarthRaiden

Novice Member

Joined: 11/20/05
Posts: 4547

i make art,
till someone dies.

Forum Terrorist

6/25/11 7:55:03 AM#27

They shutting down and my biggest wish becomes true. YES we did it ! we vets fucking owned $OE !!

 

#The NGE ist too bad for anyone to play and we told them so since Novenmber the 15th 2005 ! the real date SWG died !

-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3498

6/25/11 7:56:54 AM#28
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

They shutting down and my biggest wish becomes true. YES we did it ! we vets fucking owned $OE !!!

Hate to burst your bubble, no wait i dont :p But it is LucasArts that shut down SWG. No new license for Sony, so Sony cant keep SWG running.

You vets only fucked the current playerbase with your constant whining about what happened years ago.

  Iadien

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/12/04
Posts: 647

6/25/11 8:00:42 AM#29

It's about licensing people. READ

  User Deleted
6/25/11 8:01:47 AM#30

the new star wars is coming out soon who cares O_O

  jinxxed0

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 846

6/25/11 8:11:35 AM#31
Originally posted by Robokapp

meanwhile why is it that no game goes F2P - P2P ?

 

huh. That's what I base my oppinion on. if the two were different but equal, you'd see games transitioning both ways. since you dont, and since only games failing in P2P go F2P...and since games who fail at F2P die, i counclude that P2P > F2P > Death.

 

am i wrong?

P2P is an outdated concept that doesn't work for as many people anymore. And those games didn't go free to play, they went freemium which is worse than P2P in some ways and much worse the F2P. idk why publishers and devs can't look at guild wars1/2 andjust do what they're doing, which is: Attempt to actually make a decent game that people will enjoy and want to buy exspansions and extras for.

 

The P2P model is more like "well, I put this much time and money into it, I may as well keep going or its all for nothing"

F2P is like "I put this time into it, if I just spend a little, I'll progress faster and/or have better such and such"

Freemium is like "I may as well pay to get full stuff and then pay for extra stuff that used to come with the subscription when this was a P2P game. boy am I a sucker or what" (but at least they aren't falling for BS facebook games right?....right?)

 

*sigh*

 

{mod edit}

  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

6/25/11 8:20:46 AM#32
Originally posted by DarthRaiden

They shutting down and my biggest wish becomes true. YES we did it ! we vets fucking owned $OE !!

 

#The NGE ist too bad for anyone to play and we told them so since Novenmber the 15th 2005 ! the real date SWG died !

rofl, you "vets" did nothing, learn to read, also for a game that died it sure is funny it went 6 years, over twice as long as both previous game designs put together, but you can keep living in your delusional dream world.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  User Deleted
6/25/11 8:31:33 AM#33

The least, decent thing they could do is post details about it on the entry to their website, all I see when I open it is 'buy trading cards and then, buy some more trading cards'

  Papadam

Novice Member

Joined: 12/09/07
Posts: 2127

6/25/11 8:34:08 AM#34
Originally posted by Robokapp
Originally posted by Cacaphony
Originally posted by Robokapp

 

am i wrong?

 Yeah... I think you are.  You did a mighty fine job of assuming things, and not such a good job proving anything.

 well...I wouldnt need posting if I KNEW I'm right. But I'll need to see a flaw in my logic pointed out otherwise between my original thoughts and nothing, I'll have to stick to what I think so far.

 

so why am I wrong?

So name 1 MMO that went from P2P to F2P and then died!

 

Its the complete opposit from what you are saying. F2P give new life to MMOs and make MORE money for the devs if done right. Chanign to a better buisness model is just imrpoving to what that consumers whant. WIN/WIN

If WoW = The Beatles
and WAR = Led Zeppelin
Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  knapu

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/03/09
Posts: 136

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So is a lot.
-Albert Einstein

6/25/11 8:37:54 AM#35

F2p games suck they got outdated graphics ,  very old engines close to no updates .

And the talk about having more subs and beeing more succesfull like lotro going from p2p to f2p is crap .

Cos its the company itself thats saying it which is just marketing  .

If a magazine would state it that i would be valid not some lies from a half death company which tries to get new subs .

P2P games are allways those with bigger budget and got better graphics /gameplay

F2p is worth 0 to me i tried both long time and any one who says difrent didnt played p2p game and has no idea what hes talking about .

Every mature person whos working will go for p2p , f2p is grind fest for kids whos got time for it and are happy just to play something , where p2p gives everything and saves ure time .

I am the punishment of God...
If you had not committed great sins,
God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you
— Genghis Khan

  stragen001

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/09/09
Posts: 1737

Mr Flibble is VERY cross

6/25/11 8:41:16 AM#36

TBH I doubt Lucasarts would have renewed the contract with SWTOR coming out soon. Why have another StarWars themed FTP game to compete with your new release?

Cluck Cluck, Gibber Gibber, My Old Mans A Mushroom

  User Deleted
6/25/11 8:45:27 AM#37

This is exactly why publishing companys do not like to publish games they don't own the rights to.  Truth is this is probably 90% lucas arts saying we dont want 2 star wars MMO's running at the same time.   So many people wrongly blame SOE for the NGE.  Sorry to burst that bubble but lucas arts approves every change made to the game they hold all the rights to.   Lets just hope they dont screw over TOR like we all know they did SWG or are at the very least equally at blame for it with SOE.

  Leethe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 876

6/25/11 9:24:12 AM#38
Originally posted by Markn1

   So many people wrongly blame SOE for the NGE.  Sorry to burst that bubble but lucas arts approves every change made to the game they hold all the rights to.   Lets just hope they dont screw over TOR like we all know they did SWG or are at the very least equally at blame for it with SOE.

This is interesting. In the same fashion, are DC comics pulling the string with DCUO? Is the game fail because of decisions by SOE that had to be approved by DC? One agent cannot operate without the other and SOE's track record with their own games does not illustrate a company that is good at MMOs. It just seems like it takes 2 to tango and singling out one member of the partnership seems a bit wrong.

There is NO miracle patch.

95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  lizardbones

Elite Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10718

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

6/25/11 9:34:31 AM#39


Originally posted by Leethe


Originally posted by Markn1
   So many people wrongly blame SOE for the NGE.  Sorry to burst that bubble but lucas arts approves every change made to the game they hold all the rights to.   Lets just hope they dont screw over TOR like we all know they did SWG or are at the very least equally at blame for it with SOE.


This is interesting. In the same fashion, are DC comics pulling the string with DCUO? Is the game fail because of decisions by SOE that had to be approved by DC? One agent cannot operate without the other and SOE's track record with their own games does not illustrate a company that is good at MMOs. It just seems like it takes 2 to tango and singling out one member of the partnership seems a bit wrong.



Just because Lucas Arts approved changes, or that DC approved changes to a game doesn't mean they knew what they were approving. DC especially isn't a gaming company. They do comics and movies.

That said, I'm surprised they're pulling the plug on SWG when they've put Vanguard out to pasture and not pulled the plug on that game. I would think a F2P option might bring in new people and possibly more money for something that's pretty much "done". Perhaps it's an image thing though...they want to have new things for people to play with, not old things.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  User Deleted
6/25/11 9:39:57 AM#40
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Leethe


Originally posted by Markn1
   So many people wrongly blame SOE for the NGE.  Sorry to burst that bubble but lucas arts approves every change made to the game they hold all the rights to.   Lets just hope they dont screw over TOR like we all know they did SWG or are at the very least equally at blame for it with SOE.



This is interesting. In the same fashion, are DC comics pulling the string with DCUO? Is the game fail because of decisions by SOE that had to be approved by DC? One agent cannot operate without the other and SOE's track record with their own games does not illustrate a company that is good at MMOs. It just seems like it takes 2 to tango and singling out one member of the partnership seems a bit wrong.



Just because Lucas Arts approved changes, or that DC approved changes to a game doesn't mean they knew what they were approving. DC especially isn't a gaming company. They do comics and movies.

That said, I'm surprised they're pulling the plug on SWG when they've put Vanguard out to pasture and not pulled the plug on that game. I would think a F2P option might bring in new people and possibly more money for something that's pretty much "done". Perhaps it's an image thing though...they want to have new things for people to play with, not old things.

 

I belive with Planetside Next and EQNext in development that perhaps resources are being moved around and that games that just aren't cutting it are finally being laid to rest, I do however believe that Vanguard is bound to follow SWG before the year is out.

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