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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by mmoguy43

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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by twodayslate

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Originally posted by Joarnaj

This author tells me all that I really need to know about him.
He says, "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits," right after saying, "In all those five years you never hinted that I'd have to start paying for your affection." What kind of benefit does he imagine he provided CCP I wonder?
"You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match."
"Now, as our world begins to fill up with cretins and Farmville fans..."
My wife is a Farmville fan who, I can say difinitively, would not play EVE. And if I'm not mistaken this guy just called my wife a cretin. And I'm now supposed to respect his opinion?
The arrogance of players who assume somehow that that it was they who built the world, they who own the world, they who the world should cater to, they who should decide which people are worthy to join their world and which people are not, is astounding to me. This guy obviously believes that it was he, not CCP, who made this game great. As if he invested his money into it. As if he wrote a single line of code. As if he was the one who implemented designs and design changes that would keep this game viable.
With every new thing that CCP adds who's livelihood and future is at risk? Who stays up at night sweating over a new feature or new expansion hoping it comes off without a hitch? Who has worked day and night to try to meet deadlines and live up to expectations of 300k+ players? This guy? I think not. In fact, based on his statements I'm under the impression that he hasn't even dropped a dime on a monthly sub in a very long time. But somehow he believes, "We built it together, nourished it and sheltered it while it grew. In time, we marveled at what we had created together." Really? Unbelievable.
Has the EVE community made EVE great? Absolutely. But if this guy honestly believes that he has anything close to an equal stake in EVE he's crazy. EVE will die like all games die. When it does a lot of people at CCP will be out of a job while this guy will just move on, his life not interrupted at all, his entertainment coming from some other source. CCP will do all they can to make a profit for as long as they can. But this guy doesn't care about them or their families or their livelihood. He only cares about his game staying the way he likes it for as long as CCP can keep the servers running.

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Which is pretty much the same thing with any number of these doomsday drama whiners complaining about how CCP has suddenly changed or lost their trust, or whatever nonsense they choose as their soap opera phrase of the day.  The funny part is that they think they speak for everyone, which is absurd considering how little the population has changed since the patch got deployed.  Which is to say, it isn't from what I've seen.  The way these people talk about it, you'd think that come next tuesday, there won't be anyone older than a year anywhere on the server.
Laughable at best.

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That's totally what I used to say since 2004. Supported CCP through thick and thin. Not on this one though. I intensely dislike the direction they are going now. But I guess people have different standards of what is acceptable to them and what not.
Hoping they make a 180 with some of their decisions.

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How has their direction changed in the last year? how is what they are doing directly affecting the old players?

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Their revealed dedication to make EVE a complete cash-shop fest (and for not just vanity items) with apparently ridiculous pricing (in a sub-based, sandbox game). Read up on the internal newsletter leak thread if you haven't.
Personally I was never opposed to either Incarna or Dust. So yeah, for me this was kind of a shocker.

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Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.

Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I don't get it, why the nerd rage?

I only see the news pop by from time to time, not playing EVE myself, but they added crew quarters and are planning to add other Incarna related features. It hardly seems like a mini-NGE to me, the rest of the gameplay seems to be left unharmed, so why this sudden uproar?

 

Because of some rumor that was about how some minor items that you can pay for with real cash would be added ingame? That's all? Or what's the big deal that has people in so much uproar?

It's because of an internal document that was leaked,  which CCP admitted was real.

Basically the document gave strong tones of CCP viewing customers as little more than money to be harvested, and their plans to add more invasive micro transactions to the measure of actual ships, equipment and potentially even faction standing... which would kind of undermind the whole 'player sandbox' point to the game.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/rumour-leaked-document-shows-ccps-microtransaction-plans/

This was a very interesting read. This concept of a mutual relation, growing together, company and client, it's nice. Too bad CCP ruined it, at least for some people.

In a selfish way, i don't feel guilty anymore for not playing the all-sandboxy-glory of MMOs, Eve.

Originally posted by Thomas2006

Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.

Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.

For a lot of people, the fact that CCP is even entertaining the idea is enough reason to worry. The game's roots are based in being a sandbox where players set the factions and game economy, and some of the 'planned' MT runs in direct conflict with this. If CCP is even considering adding invasive MT, enough to formally document it, then it brings CCP's future goals into question.

It's great until the eighth paragraph, where he starts sounding like an elitist twat. Shame.

Originally posted by Thomas2006

 

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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by mmoguy43

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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by twodayslate

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Originally posted by Joarnaj

This author tells me all that I really need to know about him.
He says, "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits," right after saying, "In all those five years you never hinted that I'd have to start paying for your affection." What kind of benefit does he imagine he provided CCP I wonder?
"You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match."
"Now, as our world begins to fill up with cretins and Farmville fans..."
My wife is a Farmville fan who, I can say difinitively, would not play EVE. And if I'm not mistaken this guy just called my wife a cretin. And I'm now supposed to respect his opinion?
The arrogance of players who assume somehow that that it was they who built the world, they who own the world, they who the world should cater to, they who should decide which people are worthy to join their world and which people are not, is astounding to me. This guy obviously believes that it was he, not CCP, who made this game great. As if he invested his money into it. As if he wrote a single line of code. As if he was the one who implemented designs and design changes that would keep this game viable.
With every new thing that CCP adds who's livelihood and future is at risk? Who stays up at night sweating over a new feature or new expansion hoping it comes off without a hitch? Who has worked day and night to try to meet deadlines and live up to expectations of 300k+ players? This guy? I think not. In fact, based on his statements I'm under the impression that he hasn't even dropped a dime on a monthly sub in a very long time. But somehow he believes, "We built it together, nourished it and sheltered it while it grew. In time, we marveled at what we had created together." Really? Unbelievable.
Has the EVE community made EVE great? Absolutely. But if this guy honestly believes that he has anything close to an equal stake in EVE he's crazy. EVE will die like all games die. When it does a lot of people at CCP will be out of a job while this guy will just move on, his life not interrupted at all, his entertainment coming from some other source. CCP will do all they can to make a profit for as long as they can. But this guy doesn't care about them or their families or their livelihood. He only cares about his game staying the way he likes it for as long as CCP can keep the servers running.

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Which is pretty much the same thing with any number of these doomsday drama whiners complaining about how CCP has suddenly changed or lost their trust, or whatever nonsense they choose as their soap opera phrase of the day.  The funny part is that they think they speak for everyone, which is absurd considering how little the population has changed since the patch got deployed.  Which is to say, it isn't from what I've seen.  The way these people talk about it, you'd think that come next tuesday, there won't be anyone older than a year anywhere on the server.
Laughable at best.

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That's totally what I used to say since 2004. Supported CCP through thick and thin. Not on this one though. I intensely dislike the direction they are going now. But I guess people have different standards of what is acceptable to them and what not.
Hoping they make a 180 with some of their decisions.

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How has their direction changed in the last year? how is what they are doing directly affecting the old players?

---

Their revealed dedication to make EVE a complete cash-shop fest (and for not just vanity items) with apparently ridiculous pricing (in a sub-based, sandbox game). Read up on the internal newsletter leak thread if you haven't.
Personally I was never opposed to either Incarna or Dust. So yeah, for me this was kind of a shocker.

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Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.

Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.

You missed the orange part and went all dramatic. I have nothing against companies making a profit.

But yeah, I hope the following quotes are not set in stone, (but they sure don't read like bits of a brainstorm session, they are more like statements; the decision makers informing the rest of the CCP employees):

WoD: "...there are three main areas that virtual goods sales will focus on in the game: cosmetics, items of convenience and items of power."

"One other service we're looking at is selling faction standings. We want to offer convenience"

"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization, some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."

"Thus we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna evironment, nor build that evironment around such sales, rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."

Originally posted by Ceridith

It's because of an internal document that was leaked,  which CCP admitted was real.

Basically the document gave strong tones of CCP viewing customers as little more than money to be harvested, and their plans to add more invasive micro transactions to the measure of actual ships, equipment and potentially even faction standing... which would kind of undermind the whole 'player sandbox' point to the game.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/rumour-leaked-document-shows-ccps-microtransaction-plans/

Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?

After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?

To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.

I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.

You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."

Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.

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Originally posted by Thomas2006
Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.

Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.

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Two things.

Firstly, yes, that is their planning. As they confirmed, that is exactly their planning. They even already set it in motion and executed it.
That's as close as you can get to set in stone in an mmo.

Secondly, the economics are questionable at best. The validity of destabilizing the only income source of a 600 employee corporation has been so thoroughly questioned in fact, that people are leaving the ship.

You know, quite a few people who play Eve do have a good idea of economics. Some of them have their own company in real life. They are horrified by what CCP is doing.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Thomas2006

 

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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by mmoguy43

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Originally posted by DarkPony

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Originally posted by twodayslate

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Originally posted by Joarnaj

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deleted for irrelevance to my post

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deleted for irrelevance to my post

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 deleted for irrelevance to my post

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Their revealed dedication to make EVE a complete cash-shop fest (and for not just vanity items) with apparently ridiculous pricing (in a sub-based, sandbox game). Read up on the internal newsletter leak thread if you haven't.
Personally I was never opposed to either Incarna or Dust. So yeah, for me this was kind of a shocker.

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Because the internal newsletter that was used for brainstorming is entirely set in stone and is the word of god and can NEVER change.

Heavens forbid a company where hundreds of people WORK want to make money to pay there employees and finance future projects.

You missed the orange part and went all dramatic. I have nothing against companies making a profit.

But yeah, I hope the following quotes are not set in stone, (but they sure don't read like bits of a brainstorm session, they are more like statements; the decision makers informing the rest of the CCP employees):

WoD: "...there are three main areas that virtual goods sales will focus on in the game: cosmetics, items of convenience and items of power."

"One other service we're looking at is selling faction standings. We want to offer convenience"

"Not all virtual purchases will focus on customization, some will simply be new items, ammunition, ships, etc. that can be purchased outright."

"Thus we will not and cannot focus on virtual sales only within the Incarna evironment, nor build that evironment around such sales, rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."

those 4 paragraphs should never be metioned in any kind of MMO (themepark or and specially sandbox) wether its brainstorming or actual decisions. 

and what scares me the most is this

"rather we will effect a universal strategy of micro-sales throughout the EVe experience."

basically saying, on top of your monthly sub, it will be universal that you will spend more on micro sales to access the real eve experience. 

15$ will only let you log in

to play we need more money from you.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

I don't get it, why the nerd rage?

I only see the news pop by from time to time, not playing EVE myself, but they added crew quarters and are planning to add other Incarna related features. It hardly seems like a mini-NGE to me, the rest of the gameplay seems to be left unharmed, so why this sudden uproar?

 

Because of some rumor that was about how some minor items that you can pay for with real cash would be added ingame? That's all? Or what's the big deal that has people in so much uproar?

Currently it is just some cosmetic items that nobody really cares about in the long run.  Players might like to bitch about it, but they don't really give a crap about anything that doesn't affect their performance in space.  Give it a few weeks and they'll find something more realistic to cry about.

That something being the RMTing of battleships, which itself probably won't be as big a deal after (if) it is worked in.  Eve players seem to forget that many people who take shortcuts to obtain items that they don't have to work for (even if they have the SP to properly pilot it in this case) tend to be less attached to said items, and therefore less cautious with them.  All I see is a temporary upsurge in trust fund frat kid types that will likely only end up burning through an excessive amount of RM to the point that they start to affect their ability to maintain a subscription.  They wouldn't have an impact on the game world in the long run, and CCP benefits from their economic failure.  Problem solves itself.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that all of this heavy MT use is the result of PLEX in Eve being a big money success. You know, because players take advantage of its convinience.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?

After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?

To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.

Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop. We now know that CCP had every intention to not follow through with what they had said, and that they actually had plans to sell a hell of a lot more in the cash shop, including ships, equipment, ammunition etc.

It's by no means too early to come to negative conclusions. Sitting at idle on the edge with an ignorant air of optimism is not going to help the situation. That will only reinforce to CCP that they can actually get away with this BS.

As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.

The guy proved his point about the morons invading the game with the first few responses to his goodbye post in regards to his use of RP and the credit card being cancelled, the twits couldn't grasp his meaning and thought literally, and thus gave him a hard time for it, shows the total lack of class and intelligience we see these days in social games.

However a classic way to leave a game behind that has disappointed a customer with it's changing market values.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Ceridith

It's because of an internal document that was leaked,  which CCP admitted was real.

Basically the document gave strong tones of CCP viewing customers as little more than money to be harvested, and their plans to add more invasive micro transactions to the measure of actual ships, equipment and potentially even faction standing... which would kind of undermind the whole 'player sandbox' point to the game.

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/06/22/rumour-leaked-document-shows-ccps-microtransaction-plans/

Yes, but is it game update that's set in stone or are they just exploring possible ventures? I mean, isn't it a bit early to conclude the worst even before things are even presented as real updates?

After all, it seems that CCP has been doing some great updates over all those years, enough to provide a compelling game, if they really were so bad as some now seem to make them to be, they wouldn't have been able to make such fun improvements to the already engaging gameplay over the years, right?

 

To use an analogy, it sounds to me like as if irl your partner was talking about someone at her/his work enthusiastically, and people act like their partner has already committed adultery and having an affair.

To further your anology, it's more close to one's partner was talking enthusiasticly about a co-worker, and then openly saying they've been considering leaving their partner for the co-worker because they have more money.

The fact that CCP is even considering what they are, enough to officially document it, is what's raising alarm bells. Usually if someone is even considering doing something that would be considered drastic, even if they don't go through with it, is typically a reflection of something being seriously amiss.

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Originally posted by Cecropia
Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop.

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Actually, just a year ago CCP was vocal about there never being any MT ever in their subscription based cash cow.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

 

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Originally posted by Cecropia
Maverick, CCP started this whole shebang with the assurance that only vanity items would be sold in the cash shop.

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Actually, just a year ago CCP was vocal about there never being any MT ever in their subscription based cash cow.

That's a good point. I had forgotten about that.

Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.

If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.

Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.

Wondering if some new people didn't take over at CCP or something in the past year.  Just hard to believe the devs of old would pull such a huge swerve suddenly.

Originally posted by Cecropia

I thought that was very well done. I particularly enjoyed: "Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.

You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me."

Brilliant stuff that sums up my feelings on this ridiculous fiasco.

Originally posted by Cecropia

As to your analogy, not even close. She's already got her hand around his fun pole and she aint lookin' back. CCP can no longer be trusted.

Sorry, but it's actually this kind of attitude of intolerance and quickdraw generalising conclusions that makes me dislike and have no respect at all for sandbox fans, at least for those who show such attitude of which there are enough around.

To use that letter writer's own example: if it had been true love and dedication, they wouldn't be on the verge of leaving at the first sign of real trouble in the relationship as that letter writer intends to do.

Originally posted by gundamwing

Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.

If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.

This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.