In a sandbox you can stake your claim,. customize it ,kill for it,. die for it,.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

 

 

Eve is sandbox, and it does not allow taking of all your stuff, at least if you are insured(you wont lose much). And as far as i know does not allow player made content.

Player made content are not buildings or structures provided by the devs, it means that I create content like quests out side the game, add it to the game and people then play it. this can happen in a Sandbox or a themepark game.

 

Yes he knows that. You are thinking about that statement in a way that is too literal. Player made content implies player interaction, not players uploading their "content". Within a sandbox game that is.

So when someone says player content they are talking about anything the players come up with, their conflicts, agreements, dealings, etc.

It doesn't but these indie companies that try to make sandbox games don't realize that.  Plus the sandbox pvp fans are very fanatical and VERY vocal.

Debating pvp in a sandbox game with a sandbox ffa pvp fan is like debating religion with a bible thumper.  The bible thumper will call you a godless heathen and the ffa pvp fanatic will call you a chicken, carebear or what ever idiot comment that comes to them.

Ryzom and Linkrealm are the only sandboxy games that I know of that are not ffa pvp.

Originally posted by Venger

It doesn't but these indie companies that try to make sandbox games don't realize that.  Plus the sandbox pvp fans are very fanatical and VERY vocal.

Debating pvp in a sandbox game with a sandbox ffa pvp fan is like debating religion with a bible thumper.  The bible thumper will call you a godless heathen and the ffa pvp fanatic will call you a chicken, carebear or what ever idiot comment that comes to them.

Ryzom and Linkrealm are the only sandboxy games that I know of that are not ffa pvp.

 +1

I don't know, but I ask this question every time a new Sandbox game is announced. I guess they think that if they don't have PvP combat of this sort in the game then it'll be boring after a while, but games like Runescape have flourished for the longest time without any PvP of the sort (Not counting the Wilderness).

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Developers of sandbox MMO's must decide they only want their games to be niche, otherwise they are just not smart enough to realize that FFA full loot will always= niche.

I enjoy sandbox games a lot, provided there is a good amount of QUALITY sand, not the FFA full loot kind. There is enough potential for me to be beaten/killed/robbed every time I walk out the door of my house and enter society, I don't want to have to deal with that in a game environment as well, there is no fun or enjoyment for me there. If devs are going to go so far as to have FFA PvP and full loot in a game world then they should add in perma death as well, makes sense.

In a chaotic egameworld such as the FFA full loot environment there never seems to be any good system of punishment or justice to offset the rampant ganking and player looting. These FFA full loot games feature all the harsh and "hardcore" elements of real society i.e. wantonly kiling any player and taking all their possesions but none of the law and order functional elements like law enforcement.

Show me a sandbox, FFA PvP, full loot game that has good law and legal systems in there to punish those who abuse the FFA full loot system. A well developed system of npc law enforcement groups that actively seek out player criminals and defeat or detain them. A legal system that haws prisons and court systems for those deemed criminals. Incaceration periods for player crinimals where their character sits in a jail cell and can't do anything else. Perma death via execution for those repeat offenders who don't get it.

Oh well maybe someday we will start to see more good sandbox games that don't haev to rely on FFA full loot.

It's certainly not a requirement, but there are a good many people who like the idea. There are enough developers that like the idea that they try to develop games that appeal to it. I think it's because a lot of people play FPS games and they have fun. It seems like if one is fun, the other would be too, for the same kind of player. I think largely it's the implementation of the FFA PvP sandboxes that's the problem, not the sandboxiness.

Something else to think about, there are Sandbox games without FFA World PvP, but they are even less popular than the FFA World PvP games. I'm not sure why that is, whether it's the implementation or just the idea.

Originally posted by Somart

simple question. and is there one that isnt? 

Saga of Ryzom is not a free for all pvp mmo.

Originally posted by Ryukan

...

In a chaotic egameworld such as the FFA full loot environment there never seems to be any good system of punishment or justice to offset the rampant ganking and player looting. These FFA full loot games feature all the harsh and "hardcore" elements of real society i.e. wantonly kiling any player and taking all their possesions but none of the law and order functional elements like law enforcement.

...

 A thousand time YES.

I like sandboxes for their freedom.  As such, I don't really like systems that use "hard" game mechanics to stop PvP (liek preventing players from harming each other outright).

However, I don't want to live in Thunderdome.  I want to live in a world that allows freedom with consequences, just like the real one.  In my opinion, sandboxes SHOULD have open-PvP, BUT nonconsenual killing should be treated harshly just like murder is in the real world.  My recommendation would be for permanent measures like harsh stat loss, skill loss, exp loss or permadeath for the murderer.

Originally posted by Tymoris

Sandboxes use the FFA PVP with full loot as a system of item decay, so that the in game economy will grow.

It doesn't have to be but it's an easy method to take items out of the game and force players to make new ones thus creating an economy.

yeesh. Still such a smartypants know-it-all.

How the heck are ya?

Check your PMs.

And, back on topic: what Tymoris said. That's about right.

It's a form of extremism.

These indie devs are so determined to build the "ultimate sandbox" with as much player freedom as possible, no artificial bounderies or mechanics, just a brutal world, and players to make it into something.

Sounds great on paper. But so does communism.

The reality is that people leave in swarms after they realise that they can never EVER go afk for fear of being ganked, and must play constantly to stand a chance against macro-grinders and botters.

These games become a haven for griefer guilds who still havn't learned the age-old wisdom of "don't crap where you eat", and drive off everyone but themselves...at which point they move on to the next "FFA PVP Sandbox" to do the same thing.

We need some great sandbox games, but FFA, full loot PVP is only holding the sandbox style MMORPG back.

Originally posted by Miles-Prower

I don't know, but I ask this question every time a new Sandbox game is announced. I guess they think that if they don't have PvP combat of this sort in the game then it'll be boring after a while, but games like Runescape have flourished for the longest time without any PvP of the sort (Not counting the Wilderness).

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Runescape has always had PvP. In it's early days it even had FFA PvP with  Full Loot until they changed it.

As for why developers think that PvP is necessary in a Sandbox, I'd say it's because of Ultima Online. It's definitively the "reference" of choice as far as sandbox goes. Not to say it's the only sandbox, but one of the oldest game ANd one of the most popular in the sandbox genre.

Originally posted by Jowen

Originally posted by Somart

simple question. and is there one that isnt? 

 A Tale in The Desert. As sandboxy as it gets.

Indeed.  Sandbox doesn't need to include PvP at all.  It's just that the most prominent existing example right now (EVE) features it heavily.  It's the same sort of thinking that's led to the parade of WoW clones.

FFA PVP is just a small fraction of what sandbox is. So a game only having FFA PVP is hardly a sandbox game.