Originally posted by Temujin2011

And here's another award in more detail - from Massively. Again, they're giving SWTOR the award and saying nice things but they're veing quite lukewarm about it, like almost all the award givers from other companies too. I don't get t.

Best MMO of the Show: SWTOR
Dan O'Halloran: It should be no surprise that Star Wars: The Old Republic gets my vote in this category. I played a demo at E3 last year and was left unimpressed. This year, getting to play a level 26 character through a polished quest got me excited about this title again. Is BioWare revolutionizing combat and character progression in MMOs? No. Is it adding phenomenal level of story and immersion on top of polished MMO gameplay? You better believe it.

Rubi Bayer: I'm going to have to give this one to Star Wars: The Old Republic, even though it didn't personally excite me. The game areas people played were very polished, the quest acquisition system and cinematics were extremely interesting and well-done, and there was a decent range of gameplay available to suit different tastes.
 

You have a very strange definition of the term "lukewarm."

Originally posted by BlackWatch

I love how these games get awards before they are even released. 

It's complete BS to do this.

This is like extending credit to someone that hasn't held a job yet.  Sure, you have seen their high school and college diploma's... but what will they do in the real world?  What happens when they aren't graded on a curve?  The harsh, cruel world filled with millions of critics. 

The earliest a game should be able to receive an award would be 90+ days after launch.  Let players play it and let sub numbers begin to solidify.... then hand out some awards.

All of this hype moves boxes, but it also places the credibility of these folks that hand out the awards.

These awards are not praising the merits of the game, they're only representative of the games performance at that particular show.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by BlackWatch

I love how these games get awards before they are even released. 

It's complete BS to do this.

This is like extending credit to someone that hasn't held a job yet.  Sure, you have seen their high school and college diploma's... but what will they do in the real world?  What happens when they aren't graded on a curve?  The harsh, cruel world filled with millions of critics. 

The earliest a game should be able to receive an award would be 90+ days after launch.  Let players play it and let sub numbers begin to solidify.... then hand out some awards.

All of this hype moves boxes, but it also places the credibility of these folks that hand out the awards.

These awards are not praising the merits of the game, they're only representative of the games performance at that particular show.

Thats not how the awards are presented by game publishers and thats not how average person buying the game takes them.

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Really?

 'I played a demo at E3 last year and was left unimpressed. This year, getting to play a level 26 character through a polished quest got me excited about this title again.'

 Comments like these, amongst the praise, made me wonder.

Learn 2 quote.

Besides, you'll always have people that like something and people that didn't like something. These forums are indication enough, with sandbox fanatics and MMO vets completely burnt out on WoW-style MMO gameplay hating/despising SWTOR from the bottom of their heart as if it's the antichrist, even before they even had the chance of playing the game.

So, you'll always have people positive and negative about things, including MMO's.

However, it's saying something if the vast majority of people that actually managed to play the game was positive or enthusiastic about it, some even to their own surprise. Does that mean that SWTOR will be an awesome, spectacular success and a 'WoW killer' bla bla bla? No, it just proves that a very large group of people who got hands on time with the game liked what they played, nothing more than that.

Originally posted by Malevil

 

Thats not how the awards are presented by game publishers and thats not how average person buying the game takes them.

Well that's beside the point, as an average person with "common sense" would know an award stating best of show, doesn't mean the best video-game ever, it just means it performed well at that particular show.

As for how a company handles such an award, what do you expect? It's positive marketing, and that's all it is. I'm sure Old Joe holds the award he received at his local watering hole for "best legs" at high regard to, even considering the contestants were all overweight alchoholics.

Originally posted by Malickie

Originally posted by Malevil

 

Thats not how the awards are presented by game publishers and thats not how average person buying the game takes them.

Well that's beside the point, as an average person with "common sense" would know an award stating best of show, doesn't mean the best video-game ever, it just means it performed well at that particular show.

As for how a company handles such an award, what do you expect? It's positive marketing, and that's all it is. I'm sure Old Joe holds the award he received at his local watering hole for "best legs" at high regard to, even considering the contestants were all overweight alchoholics.

There is actually a very small amount of people in the world that can be called that. Common sense is unfortunately not that common.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Really?

 'I played a demo at E3 last year and was left unimpressed. This year, getting to play a level 26 character through a polished quest got me excited about this title again.'

 Comments like these, amongst the praise, made me wonder.

Learn 2 quote.

 

Besides, you'll always have people that like something and people that didn't like something. These forums are indication enough, with sandbox fanatics and MMO vets completely burnt out on WoW-style MMO gameplay hating/despising SWTOR from the bottom of their heart as if it's the antichrist, even before they even had the chance of playing the game.

So, you'll always have people positive and negative about things, including MMO's.

 

However, it's saying something if the vast majority of people that actually managed to play the game was positive or enthusiastic about it, some even to their own surprise. Does that mean that SWTOR will be an awesome, spectacular success and a 'WoW killer' bla bla bla? No, it just proves that a very large group of people who got hands on time with the game liked what they played, nothing more than that.

I really don't know where you get this "vast majority" belief.  From my point of view, all I saw was a lot of negative feedback and disappointed feelings after E3.

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

I really don't know where you get this "vast majority" belief.  From my point of view, all I saw was a lot of negative feedback and disappointed feelings after E3.

By actually reading the multitude of reviews and impressions that are out there and not only focusing on the negative comments as (some) SWTOR haters and critics seem to do, or are only capable of.

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

 

I really don't know where you get this "vast majority" belief.  From my point of view, all I saw was a lot of negative feedback and disappointed feelings after E3.

Maybe that's what you want to see? As for his quote, I'm not sure you're talking about the same thing. He seems to be talking about hand's on experiences, you seem to be talking about forum banter.

Originally posted by Malickie

Maybe that's what you want to see? As for his quote, I'm not sure you're talking about the same thing. He seems to be talking about hand's on experiences, you seem to be talking about forum banter.

That's indeed what I was talking about, I assumed that he was referring to those as well

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Malickie

Well that's beside the point, as an average person with "common sense" would know an award stating best of show, doesn't mean the best video-game ever, it just means it performed well at that particular show.

There is actually a very small amount of people in the world that can be called that. Common sense is unfortunately not that common.

Interestingly enough, this would lead to the conclusion that 'average person with common sense' is a contradictio in terminis, since it's far more common that the average person doesn't show much common sense 

I played the game at the event and it was fine, better than anything out at the moment....I will be playing and so won't most the people complaining too.

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Calm down.

Even you, who are very enthusiastic about this game and seem to get personally hurt if its criticised ion any way, will have to admit that almost all these awards are not given very enthusiastically by people who are paid to be enthusiastic about games.

For a giant MMO, one of the most expensive game ever produced, this is not a good sign. For someone like you, an uncritical proponent of SWTOR and Bioware, this should be a cold, frightening warning.

Easy on the quick-drawing of conclusions, it might show your comments be a projection of your own emotional investment for (or  against) the game, I actually think it says more about you than me seeing how way off you are .

Actually, most of those people were either enthusiastic themselves or they could rise above their own taste and felt that SWTOR had something substantial to offer, enough to warrant it an E3 award. I know that for some critics, as this thread clearly proves, any positive comment by others must be an affront, heaven forbid that a game they dislike or even despise should be successful or enjoyable to others. But don't you worry, if you're not really interested in SWTOR than there's always other MMO's for you to enjoy while other MMO gamers enjoy SWTOR, so enough fun to be had for everyone.

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Even you, who are very enthusiastic about this game and seem to get personally hurt if its criticised ion any way, will have to admit that almost all these awards are not given very enthusiastically by people who are paid to be enthusiastic about games.

For a giant MMO, one of the most expensive game ever produced, this is not a good sign. For someone like you, an uncritical proponent of SWTOR and Bioware, this should be a cold, frightening warning.

Why?

The ""lukewarm"" feeling you're seeing could be due to a great many things. One possibly being the MMO that particular journalist was anticipating wasn't at said show.

I mean look at your own statement here, you're saying we should all be worried because a journalist went from being unimpressed to giving what he saw his seal of approval. What sense does that make?

As for your evaluation of Maverick, I don't see that in him what so ever, more to the point, he just seems to get sick of nonsensical statements like you're making now.

Think game will do fine on sales tho no idea if it will keep them since we saw so many mmos go down fast like Age of conan warhammer etc. Will buy this game on day one myself if not only for the full voiced dialog and the starwars setting. Also did like to see the zones where pretty big from e3 so it shouldnt feel small and on rails .

Originally posted by Temujin2011

 

Well, equally the nonsensical statements  you're seeing could be due to many things.

Like you're angry at the lukewarm previews people are drawing your attention to that are appearing alongside the good reviews, and want tro lash out at the people who are bringing them up.

Dude, don't shot the messenger.

Why would I care about lukewarm previews? Did I bring them up?

I don't think I shot you, I shot your message as it made absolutely no sense.

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Originally posted by Malickie

 

Why would I care about lukewarm previews? Did I bring them up?

I don't think I shot you, I shot your message as it made absolutely no sense.

 So you literally didn't see any lukewarm praise or ambivalence then? Nothing at all?

What I saw was people handing out awards to unfinsihed games that mean absolutely nothing. Why would commentary on such a meaningless thing have any soul in it to begin with?

Originally posted by Temujin2011

If you think that, then you are genuinely a bit too offkilter for this unlaunched game because I'm looking forward to SWTOR and want it to succeed. But this game is like a religion to you. Seriously.

Funny, the way you say it it's almost as if you've been hanging around these forums far longer than a week (maybe under different account names?). And no, it isn't a religion, another ad hominem insult, I'm not even that interested in SWTOR as much as I'm interested in GW2 and TSW. It's the haters, burnt out vets, emotionally biased critics and trolls that I find interesting. The way you say it, it sounds more like that you have a problem with people disagreeing with your viewpoint.

Be honest with us - and with yourself - does it hurt you personally, like you were being insulted, when people question this game?

Not really, the intolerant mindset of some SWTOR critics/haters I find annoying, to such a level that I actually enjoy debating with them. Granted, they're not all like that, you have sensible people among them as well, with which I enjoy debating as well but on another level.

May I remind you how this started, I corrected you on your misquoting after which you decided to start attacking me personally instead of the arguments posted, so let me return to the starting point before you went off on an ad hominem streak: did you or did you not misquote?

 However, anyone being honest has to say that many of these awards are for the presentation, some are for the cinematic, some are default awards and some, like the ones I pointed out, have a lot of lukewarm, ambiguous and ambivalent commentary amongst the praise. This is not just me noticing this. Read back over the thread for yourself. So please stop shooing the messengers and instead, have a look at the messages.

OK?

[mod edited]

It's true that those who hate/despise/dislike SWTOR indeed regard ithe rewards in the most negative way. I think that if you'd really do a tally and read what people said, you'd find out that it's only in your mind that all the rewards are lukewarm, and the way you even use misquotes to prove your point, shows to me that it's apparently important for you to see it that way.

Well, I guess this is where we agree to disagree, because after reading the additional information around those rewards (which personally I still think are trivial, pre-launch rewards) I see that they're for the most part positive, fwiw

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Really?

 'I played a demo at E3 last year and was left unimpressed. This year, getting to play a level 26 character through a polished quest got me excited about this title again.'

 Comments like these, amongst the praise, made me wonder.

Learn 2 quote.

 

Besides, you'll always have people that like something and people that didn't like something. These forums are indication enough, with sandbox fanatics and MMO vets completely burnt out on WoW-style MMO gameplay hating/despising SWTOR from the bottom of their heart as if it's the antichrist, even before they even had the chance of playing the game.

So, you'll always have people positive and negative about things, including MMO's.

 

However, it's saying something if the vast majority of people that actually managed to play the game was positive or enthusiastic about it, some even to their own surprise. Does that mean that SWTOR will be an awesome, spectacular success and a 'WoW killer' bla bla bla? No, it just proves that a very large group of people who got hands on time with the game liked what they played, nothing more than that.

 Calm down.

Even you, who are very enthusiastic about this game and seem to get personally hurt if its criticised ion any way, will have to admit that almost all these awards are not given very enthusiastically by people who are paid to be enthusiastic about games.

For a giant MMO, one of the most expensive game ever produced, this is not a good sign. For someone like you, an uncritical proponent of SWTOR and Bioware, this should be a cold, frightening warning.

+++ this post isn't aimed at you Temujin, this was just my jumping on point in the conversation. +++

This really has nothing to do ith SWTOR the game and everything to do with Bioware's presentation skills at this event (or lack there of as the unkind might say), well and some to do with the technical constraints of the E3 civic center.

First off, I feel that E3 is a tired load of old bollocks. Its a place for journalists to fill their swag bags and be spoonfed gaming studio propaganda. In the grand scheme of what the average gamer wants to see, I don't think E3 matters much any more. If we wanted to see bad commercials we would just watch TV.

That said, I think many would agree that the SWTOR presentation for the most part was about as enteraining as watching paint dry. I'm sure the people at the event that got hands on with the game had more fun, but even they were stuck only getting to see the tiny bits of the game that Bioware wanted them to see. So most of our questions about the game were not addressed at this event. SWTOR is still almost of an unknown as before. I personally feel that if this was the biggest bone Bioware was prepared to throw us, I would have prefered they just hadn't bothered. And instead waited until some event where they could give us a much better glimpse of their game world.

Now as these awards, who     the      "bleep"    cares? These awards are only really important to the backers of E3. At best they are the "best gaming commercial" awards. It isn't some haute video gamers version of Cannes where the full intricacies of the games are put on display to be judged, we see only what these companies want us to see. And in the case of Bioware, that presentation was less than steller. The main reason in my opinion is because they weren't ready or at least willing to let the cat out of the bag and give the public very much SWTOR information at this date. So it was an uninspring presentation at an over commecrialized and uninspiring event. Its a black mark on Biowares presentation skills, and a black mark on E3 in general for handing out so many "special olympics" awards to a company that gave such a half assed performance, but pretty meaningless in terms of the quality SWTOR itself.

So to both camps spouting gloom and doom, or crowing that SWTOR knocked one out of the park beacuse of E3, you are a bit delusional. The results of E3 mean next to nothing positive or negative about this game. Until Bioware decides to let us have some more concrete information we are still as much in the dark as when we started.

Also to the posters who hate this game, have always hated this game, and will always hate this game but keep posting here. Don't you have more important subjects for debate on these forums? Such as maybe ELIXER B?

Originally posted by Temujin2011

(mod edit)

Naah, you're misreading or projecting again, you really should do that less, it's telling, you know

When people present lies as truths, I find their behaviour appalling and annoying, I'm not personally insulted. Actually, the debates that follow I consider fun, else I wouldn't do it, someone named it 'forum pvp', maybe that isn't such a bad description at all.

Since you ignored the former time that I mentioned it, shall we go back to where you started to derail the conversation?

Originally posted by Temujin2011

Really?

 'I played a demo at E3 last year and was left unimpressed. This year, getting to play a level 26 character through a polished quest got me excited about this title again.'

 Comments like these, amongst the praise, made me wonder.

The yellow part is what you left out of your quote. Since that isn't just a copy-paste job, it looks to me that you left that out on purpose. Now why would you do that, if not then for trying to give more weight to your whole subjective 'lukewarm' argument?

Or don't answer that. It's apparent that you want to believe firmly that the reception was lukewarm even if you have to distort the truth to prove your point. We apparently disagree on this point.

Originally posted by Temujin2011

What I saw was people handing out awards to unfinsihed games that mean absolutely nothing. Why would commentary on such a meaningless thing have any soul in it to begin with?

 Well, isn't that the whole point of the thread? I mean, it's in the title, isn't it?

Well sure, I wasn't commenting toward your assertion that these pre-views may have been "lukewarm", not in the slightest. I was commenting on your message there was something to worry about in "lukewarm" statements in regard to E3 awards.