I think it will be fine.  Can't wait myself...oh and I have good taste in videogames....just saying.

Originally posted by artemisentr4

Originally posted by mCalvert

Sounds like itll be fun, but the wow clone features will get annoying after a while. For example, you decide to spare the sith, so he helps you out later. This is supposed to be immersive, but its an MMO, which means your friend will fight the exact same sith, on the exact same quest, but decide to kill him. So youll talk to your friend in game and hell be in a paralell universe basically, which is not immersive. No, I dont see an alternative to this, but its still not immersive.

 Big story choices will be behind an instance. So you will run through most of the quest in the open. But when you get close to the end, you will go through an entrance with a green film. You won't be able to tell, because it is seamless, but you will be in your own instance. Whatever you decide will be your decision, and no other player will see how it plays out for you unless they are in your group.

 

You will only be able to talk to your about what happened in your instance. But you will never be in two open worlds. You will never be standing in the same place and not see your friend. Only way this could happen is if you are both the same class. Then you could join his class quest and he could join yours. Then inside each of your instances, you could make two different choices and see two outcomes. But again, that part will not be in the open world.

 

 My point was you get sent on a mission to find some archeologisst. You find him and kill him. Then your friend says, hey I was told to do the same mission. I thought you said you burned the banner and killed the archeologist, but when I went in, there he was, and I killed him. How is it we both killed the same guy?

Well I will buy the game but I think they should get another animator as their combat animation look quite dull and awkward. They should contract Blur Studios to do the animation :P.   Companion would be a bit of headache for BW cos after 7 years WOW still have a hunters' pet bug in the instance.  If  you watch the video on SWTOR ( Tatooine Developer Walkthrough ) the companion is all over the place even run thru the Sith :(. 

Some of the changes they have made are pretty amazing.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

I find the game to be wholely depressing. I have ever since the first screenshot showed the childish art direction.

I've only grown more disappointed in the project as more has been released about it.  It just looks bad.

The only thing I like in the game is the co-op dialogue system.  Thats the only redeeming thing I can find about this title.

You're so negative all the time that no one takes you seriously any longer.

Everything I've seen makes me want to play this game more and more. I think it'll be great.

 

So you speak for everyone?

I don't really care what people think of my opinion.  Thats the point of a "forum" to post your opinion.   I post a lot on the topics related to Star Wars, because its a big part of my life. I'll continue to post my opinion without any fear of what 'you' or anyone else think of it.

One thing is for certain about my posts here. I never pretend to speak for more than just myself, like some people.

Originally posted by Isane

Originally posted by Cinge

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

I find the game to be wholely depressing. I have ever since the first screenshot showed the childish art direction.

I've only grown more disappointed in the project as more has been released about it.  It just looks bad.

The only thing I like in the game is the co-op dialogue system.  Thats the only redeeming thing I can find about this title.

 

Can I ask a serious questiong? You have been trolling the SWTOR comments sections with a relgious zeal, yet every single comment is "why the game sucks, why it fails, why I wont play it etc" , why do you continue to click on SWTOR Articles? Are you so desperate for attention that you just can't help yourself? Do you have zero self control or dignity left?

{mod edit}

 

Firstly. Because its a forum and I can share my opinion as I please.  Just because I don't post with blind positivity doesn't mean I'm not allowed to write my thoughts.  I'm sooooo sorry that they differ from yours. Welcome to humanity.

{mod edit}

Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

Just because I post with blind negativity doesn't mean I'm not allowed to write my thoughts.

Fixed, and I agree, But we ("we" being the majority of this community) are just letting you know we hardly find you credible or worth listening to anymore. At least, when it comes to TOR.

I must say Fdzzaigl has the best post in the thread (#20), followed by whilan's excellent explanation of how group dialogue will work (#34).

Originally posted by mCalvert

Sounds like itll be fun, but the wow clone features will get annoying after a while. For example, you decide to spare the sith, so he helps you out later. This is supposed to be immersive, but its an MMO, which means your friend will fight the exact same sith, on the exact same quest, but decide to kill him. So youll talk to your friend in game and hell be in a paralell universe basically, which is not immersive. No, I dont see an alternative to this, but its still not immersive.

Think about what you're saying here. You've been through a quest and made a decision. Then you're friend comes along at a later time and does the quest. Think about that, whatever decision he makes immersion is already broken. That's just the nature of MMORPGs. Until there's a day when everybody has individual quests that have nothing to do with one another you'll have to have a certain amount of suspension of disbelieve. The same thing goes with running the same dungeons/raids in MMORPGs over and over again. The very fact that you get to make a choice is a step forward but you're still going to have to have that suspension of disbelief that you've had in all previous MMORPGs.

There are many elements of MMORPGs that are like this, including things like the death system. How many people do you know of that have been chopped to bits and then came back to life? Until there is a game with permanent death then you'll have to have that suspension of disbelief. I mean seriously, what fun would there be if death was permanent in MMORPGs? People would have to constantly start over.

I saw someone complaining about lightsabers not killing in one hit, but even normal swords would kill someone in one hit if they have no heavy armor and only warriors types have heavy enough armor to prevent that and even that wouldn't be enough against a heavy two handed sword. People are being kind of ridiculous about their complaints concerning this game.

At one point on Tattooine they are in a duel with a Sith master. After winning the duel, your character has a choice to kill the Sith or spare his life. Choosing to spare his life is considered a Light Side choice within the Force. The Sith Master starts to reconsider his choices and goes away after the duel. Later in the game, you run into the Sith you spared who is now working for the Jedi and become somewhat of a leader. He thanks you for the change you had made in his life and remains part of your personal story.

Am I the only one who is disappointed at this? I loved KotOR, but BioWare's moral systems have always been very stark in their Goody Two-Shoes/A**hole dichotomy. You make the "good" choice, and everything is happy sunshine ever after, or you very deliberately say "I'm going to be a b**tard today."

Staying on the Light is not supposed to be easy. Slipping to the Dark is not supposed to be a blatant choice to be an a**. Great Jedi through the history of the setting have not fallen because they were 12 year olds that liked being mean to people.

A real choice would have been if you spare the Sith and he goes on to kill another character you care about to get revenge on you for beating him. Then there is an actual moral decision to be made. Do you hold to your ideals and accept the additional harm this person does to others after you spare him? Or do you sacrifice your own virtue to ensure that he never hurts anyone again? That's the seduction of the Dark Side, how easy it is to make the wrong choice for the right reasons.

I'd like to be able to play a dark character that is actually deep, instead of one that is basically a forum troll w/a lightsaber. Or a light one that has made hard choices, and sacrificed in the name of keeping to the Code. If this game is supposed to be all about story, how about we have some actual grown-up story?

Originally posted by Sabrel

At one point on Tattooine they are in a duel with a Sith master. After winning the duel, your character has a choice to kill the Sith or spare his life. Choosing to spare his life is considered a Light Side choice within the Force. The Sith Master starts to reconsider his choices and goes away after the duel. Later in the game, you run into the Sith you spared who is now working for the Jedi and become somewhat of a leader. He thanks you for the change you had made in his life and remains part of your personal story.

Am I the only one who is disappointed at this? I loved KotOR, but BioWare's moral systems have always been very stark in their Goody Two-Shoes/A**hole dichotomy. You make the "good" choice, and everything is happy sunshine ever after, or you very deliberately say "I'm going to be a b**tard today."

Staying on the Light is not supposed to be easy. Slipping to the Dark is not supposed to be a blatant choice to be an a**. Great Jedi through the history of the setting have not fallen because they were 12 year olds that liked being mean to people.

A real choice would have been if you spare the Sith and he goes on to kill another character you care about to get revenge on you for beating him. Then there is an actual moral decision to be made. Do you hold to your ideals and accept the additional harm this person does to others after you spare him? Or do you sacrifice your own virtue to ensure that he never hurts anyone again? That's the seduction of the Dark Side, how easy it is to make the wrong choice for the right reasons.

I'd like to be able to play a dark character that is actually deep, instead of one that is basically a forum troll w/a lightsaber. Or a light one that has made hard choices, and sacrificed in the name of keeping to the Code. If this game is supposed to be all about story, how about we have some actual grown-up story?

Do you know how many choices we'll be able to make? Forming an opinion on a single instance is foolish, but I can see what you're saying and I'll respond with this: If you're going to blantantly divide your morality system into good vs. evil, then you must clearly define what is good and what is evil in the context you're working with. In this case, sparing life = good, ending it = evil. Did the Sith have to experience a personal revelation and decide to be a good guy? No, but should every Sith Master be a copy-and-paste, irredeemable maniac who is obsessed with power, revenge, etc.? I'm sure some other situations will require you to make more difficult choices, but know that the Light/Dark definitions will still be there.

Overall, don't expect "grown-up" story. Star Wars has never been intended for grown-ups; it's always been aimed at kids. Some of the material in the Extended Universe has worked to remove this stigma, but it's not enough.

uhhmm game looks good to me, there are certainly aspects I would have preferred they do differently such as the "holy trinity", but i can live with it to be playing a star wars morg

 I wish i could be happy for htis game but it just dosen't do it for me. I have had enough of hotkey gameplay and no matter how much people tell me it is different i won't take their word for it.

 I remember expecting innovation out the ass but instead we get  WoW combat(yes it is), a pet for everything but raids, characters that look like they have a permenant steel rod in their spine, and a serious lack of the innovation so far. It is not delivering, sad to see it go that route but done wasting my time watching this. I would unsubscruibe from the newsletter but i never got one even for hype reasons.

Interesting,  The gameplay is the same as any Current and past MMOs ... stand, target, click, voila

The Personal Ship is just a step back in Form of Sociability, where you wont even need to be in a Social Hub to craft or start your own things From missions to missions..., Guess tha'll be good for loners at best.

I, personally enjoy The way the Art direction took.... Too many game try to go Too Photo-realistic and it just end up feeling Less immersive than it should. I do hope they will have some kind of "darker" atmosphere tho as so far everything seems on the "Pretty and happy" side.

Guess we will see if they ever truely release this Winter, im sure a few of my friends will buy it, allowing me to Check out the game before "wasting" a good 50+ $ on it =D

musicmann wrote

"SWTOR for alot on this pro sandbox gameplay site is looked upon as the man, the establishment. Therefore, they are on the opposite side of that. so this game can and never will be done right for them. As a matter of fact no game will do unless it is a pure, open world, FFA pvp with corpse looting and being able to plant trees and flowers and change the world with dynamic events all the while sitting in there house that is in their guild city looking at themselves in a mirror that they repositioned themselves a hundred times over gleeming with excitment on how the graphics in the game is so life like and real, they can't tell the difference between real life and the game.

I think that sums up why they have a problem with TOR.

For me, i think TOR is gonna be a blast to play for along time to come."

You nailed that quite succinctly, my friend.  I would say that was one of the top ten most appropriate run-on sentences ever.  :)

I'm at a point in my life where I will take a story-driven game for awhile. My schedule doesn't allow me the luxury of playing like I used to, so this might be the kind of entertainment I can enjoy in small pockets of time.

And I am tired of swords and sorcery, even though I do plan to give GW2 a look since it appears to offer some new innovation.

I think I'll go read a book instead.

Not sure if the pros really outshine the cons in this game. I don't think E3 helped Bioware's cause. I guess it will be a game time decision for me if I buy it or not.

Originally posted by Comnitus

Do you know how many choices we'll be able to make? Forming an opinion on a single instance is foolish, but I can see what you're saying and I'll respond with this: If you're going to blantantly divide your morality system into good vs. evil, then you must clearly define what is good and what is evil in the context you're working with. In this case, sparing life = good, ending it = evil. Did the Sith have to experience a personal revelation and decide to be a good guy? No, but should every Sith Master be a copy-and-paste, irredeemable maniac who is obsessed with power, revenge, etc.? I'm sure some other situations will require you to make more difficult choices, but know that the Light/Dark definitions will still be there.

Overall, don't expect "grown-up" story. Star Wars has never been intended for grown-ups; it's always been aimed at kids. Some of the material in the Extended Universe has worked to remove this stigma, but it's not enough.

 

Yes, it is a generallization based one example, but w/the only other examples being their previous works, it seems a pretty likely guess. I would be pleasantly surprised if they actually have some serious moral choices, but BioWare has historically seemed very fond of the "Angel Among Us"/"LOLEvil!" extremes when it comes to choices.

I have to disagree about Star Wars as a whole, however. It was never high literature, but it started out w/some adult ideas. Han Solo and Lando Calrissian in particular made very good illustrations that doing the right thing is not always an easy choice. Obi-Wan's tale about how Anakin was a good man and a good friend that was seduced by darkness is what made me want to know more about that era long before the prequel trilogy was in the works.

It wasn't until Lucas got all hyped up on crazy and started playing w/things again (Special Edition and the prequels) that things got silly enough to invite commentary from the Colonel on Monty Python.

To clarify my concerns, I understand that there will be good and bad sides, but the choices have historically been so extreme as to be silly. I have a hard time seriously playing a dark side character, because there is no slow slide. From the very first dark choice at the beginning of the game, your character has to effectively be a psychopath to behave in that fashion.

It is entirely possible to have choices that a reasonable person could make, while still making it plain to the player that it is a "Dark" choice. There is no need for things to shoved so far into the extremes as to be ludicrous, but BioWare has (quite frankly) always taken the blantantly easy route.

Originally posted by Sabrel

Staying on the Light is not supposed to be easy. Slipping to the Dark is not supposed to be a blatant choice to be an a**. Great Jedi through the history of the setting have not fallen because they were 12 year olds that liked being mean to people.

A real choice would have been if you spare the Sith and he goes on to kill another character you care about to get revenge on you for beating him. Then there is an actual moral decision to be made. Do you hold to your ideals and accept the additional harm this person does to others after you spare him? Or do you sacrifice your own virtue to ensure that he never hurts anyone again? That's the seduction of the Dark Side, how easy it is to make the wrong choice for the right reasons.

I'd like to be able to play a dark character that is actually deep, instead of one that is basically a forum troll w/a lightsaber. Or a light one that has made hard choices, and sacrificed in the name of keeping to the Code. If this game is supposed to be all about story, how about we have some actual grown-up story?

I think there have already been quite a few examples where making a 'ligh side' or a 'dark side' decision isn't as clear cut from the get go, where sometimes you get Light or Dark side points for something that you hadn't expected, or where choosing the good decision means that you did the 'right' thing but that also means that you won't get the weapon as rewards that is the best of the levels you're around.

So decisions have consequences that a) you have to live with and that b) draw you out of your comfort zone and c) often aren't as clear cut or have predictable results as you might think or like.

Besides that, you also have neutral decision options, and devs already mentioned that the lightside path, the darkside path as well as the balanced/neutral path all have their own perks and benefits.

Originally posted by Sabrel

It is entirely possible to have choices that a reasonable person could make, while still making it plain to the player that it is a "Dark" choice. There is no need for things to shoved so far into the extremes as to be ludicrous, but BioWare has (quite frankly) always taken the blantantly easy route.

You're just guessing and speculating here, player reports have already proven this to be untrue, that there's a lot more grey areas or non-extreme charicature black&white stuff than you apparently think there is.