Originally posted by Lovely_Laly

 

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Originally posted by page
To make a long story short they should have left the old world vanilla, and should have created another Continent instead of screwing things up

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agree at 100%, even new planted will work, but not try to puch old players into redo whole game, it just silly.

if you don't redo all you have like 2 months to play before you got bored of new content or find it too hard & long.

To me, it's another speaking out of both sides of their mouth.  They took all that time to redo the 1-60, but have expressed time and time again that end game is where they want everyone to be.  You often level out of a zone well before you complete it.  It's not made to take time anymore.  They want to get you to end game as fast as possible.  Which, is made even faster for alts because of heirlooms.  Throw in that you can also BG for experience, and you level so fast that you regret taking time to get any one item or spend money on hard to find old world best enchants when you will outgrow them in a couple of hours.(non heirloom items)  So, why did they spend so much development time on content you aren't really ever supposed to hover over or spend any meaningful time on?  I'm not saying they didn't do some good by fixing problems with certain specs being horrible at low levels(remember leveling a feral with having no feral attacks or stealth for a long time?), but a lot of it is wasted when you don't spend any time there and don't really have time to finish the lore of an area.  Blizzard has NEVER been good at scaling.  The low zones are no exception.  Lastly, some people miss the things they took out when they redid low levels.  So making them want to go back and do it again will only create moments of dispair/depression at that loss.

The only thing killing WOW is time.  There is only so many times you can do the same exact grind before folks finally tire of it.  Over simplified and such is a symptom of the problem but the root cause is time. Nothing lasts forever that is based on the same treadmill with no other choices within the game world.

I kind of agree with the OP.

I played WOW for the PvP, but once they added Arena gear  and no way to progress through the BGs it was basically pointless for me to play. I don't enjoy being one shot at max level by someone who has a weapon 3X more powerful than I will ever obtain.

Add the fact that the BGs(and most content) never get updated its a slap in the face to the subscribers who've made WoW successful.

It feels like WoW is/was being infiltrated by the SOE devs who drove their plethora of games into the ground.

Originally posted by Golelorn
It feels like WoW is/was being infiltrated by the SOE devs who drove their plethora of games into the ground.

Kind of, yes.

There is one simple reason for WoW's downfall - the slow erosion of it's community on each server.

Cross-server battlegroups were the first step, LFD came next, and now you don't even have group quests (outside of the Crucible thing in Twilight). I've said this in a few threads before on here and the official site; I would make a serious guess that the rate I used to add new folks to my friends list in game has gone from around 1-2 a week, to MAYBE 1-2 every couple of months. I mean, where am I supposed to meet people in-game on my own server? The people AFK in ORG/SW waiting for a queue pop? There is hardly anybody out in the world anymore. There isn't that random guy/gal asking for a group to do a 3-5 man quest. There aren't 3-5 or more groups forming in trade chat for a few heroics or a Kara, Gruul, ZA run (sometimes even Mag) where you may make a few friends that you group with for the next 2 years.

It's just gone. WoW has become very hollow to me, and everything is a quick fix. It's quite sad that I don't even recognize a majority of folks on my own server anymore, because we never really get the chance to do anything together in game. I remember switching servers way back when for my own reasons, and it didn't take more than a few months before you would quite famiiliar with the majority of the players/guilds on your server (both factions).

I was reading this thread about 5 minutes ago on the official site: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593042452?page=1 The OP has a lot of fair points of what I really miss about the game. It's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft - it does not feel like  a WORLD (virtual) to me anymore. It's a lobby/console game with those stupid anal jokes popping up every couple of hours.

The community is all but gone! Sad but true - no matter how immature it was, at least it existed.

Originally posted by Kuju

There is one simple reason for WoW's downfall - the slow erosion of it's community on each server.

Cross-server battlegroups were the first step, LFD came next, and now you don't even have group quests (outside of the Crucible thing in Twilight). I've said this in a few threads before on here and the official site; I would make a serious guess that the rate I used to add new folks to my friends list in game has gone from around 1-2 a week, to MAYBE 1-2 every couple of months. I mean, where am I supposed to meet people in-game on my own server? The people AFK in ORG/SW waiting for a queue pop? There is hardly anybody out in the world anymore. There isn't that random guy/gal asking for a group to do a 3-5 man quest. There aren't 3-5 or more groups forming in trade chat for a few heroics or a Kara, Gruul, ZA run (sometimes even Mag) where you may make a few friends that you group with for the next 2 years.

It's just gone. WoW has become very hollow to me, and everything is a quick fix. It's quite sad that I don't even recognize a majority of folks on my own server anymore, because we never really get the chance to do anything together in game. I remember switching servers way back when for my own reasons, and it didn't take more than a few months before you would quite famiiliar with the majority of the players/guilds on your server (both factions).

I was reading this thread about 5 minutes ago on the official site: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593042452?page=1 The OP has a lot of fair points of what I really miss about the game. It's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft - it does not feel like  a WORLD (virtual) to me anymore. It's a lobby/console game with those stupid anal jokes popping up every couple of hours.

The community is all but gone! Sad but true - no matter how immature it was, at least it existed.

I agree. In vanilla-WoW and in some other MMO:s there is a virtual world that is fun to explore.  Its about adventure and you find new friends and discover new things in the world every day. You dont need to be a hardcore elite raider to have fun that way. Or a hardcore PvP player. And its also about the journey and you dont have to rush to max level as fast as possible.

When everything worth doing is instanced and you can join everything standing in a city that part of the game and play style is gone...

It was a serious mistake to change WoW like that. Im sure they get new players that like WoW the way it is 2011. And subscription numbers and statistics are probably still OK. And they are amazing compared to all other MMO:s... But they are certainly loosing players that dont want to play a lobby game. Players that focus on adventure, exploring and finding new friends in an open living virtual world.

Originally posted by Kuju

There is one simple reason for WoW's downfall - the slow erosion of it's community on each server.

Cross-server battlegroups were the first step, LFD came next, and now you don't even have group quests (outside of the Crucible thing in Twilight). I've said this in a few threads before on here and the official site; I would make a serious guess that the rate I used to add new folks to my friends list in game has gone from around 1-2 a week, to MAYBE 1-2 every couple of months. I mean, where am I supposed to meet people in-game on my own server? The people AFK in ORG/SW waiting for a queue pop? There is hardly anybody out in the world anymore. There isn't that random guy/gal asking for a group to do a 3-5 man quest. There aren't 3-5 or more groups forming in trade chat for a few heroics or a Kara, Gruul, ZA run (sometimes even Mag) where you may make a few friends that you group with for the next 2 years.

It's just gone. WoW has become very hollow to me, and everything is a quick fix. It's quite sad that I don't even recognize a majority of folks on my own server anymore, because we never really get the chance to do anything together in game. I remember switching servers way back when for my own reasons, and it didn't take more than a few months before you would quite famiiliar with the majority of the players/guilds on your server (both factions).

I was reading this thread about 5 minutes ago on the official site: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593042452?page=1 The OP has a lot of fair points of what I really miss about the game. It's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft - it does not feel like  a WORLD (virtual) to me anymore. It's a lobby/console game with those stupid anal jokes popping up every couple of hours.

The community is all but gone! Sad but true - no matter how immature it was, at least it existed.

My last real main was named Kuju on three different servers, and the one before that was as well.

:3

Originally posted by Razeron

Originally posted by Kuju

There is one simple reason for WoW's downfall - the slow erosion of it's community on each server.

Cross-server battlegroups were the first step, LFD came next, and now you don't even have group quests (outside of the Crucible thing in Twilight). I've said this in a few threads before on here and the official site; I would make a serious guess that the rate I used to add new folks to my friends list in game has gone from around 1-2 a week, to MAYBE 1-2 every couple of months. I mean, where am I supposed to meet people in-game on my own server? The people AFK in ORG/SW waiting for a queue pop? There is hardly anybody out in the world anymore. There isn't that random guy/gal asking for a group to do a 3-5 man quest. There aren't 3-5 or more groups forming in trade chat for a few heroics or a Kara, Gruul, ZA run (sometimes even Mag) where you may make a few friends that you group with for the next 2 years.

It's just gone. WoW has become very hollow to me, and everything is a quick fix. It's quite sad that I don't even recognize a majority of folks on my own server anymore, because we never really get the chance to do anything together in game. I remember switching servers way back when for my own reasons, and it didn't take more than a few months before you would quite famiiliar with the majority of the players/guilds on your server (both factions).

I was reading this thread about 5 minutes ago on the official site: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2593042452?page=1 The OP has a lot of fair points of what I really miss about the game. It's supposed to be WORLD of Warcraft - it does not feel like  a WORLD (virtual) to me anymore. It's a lobby/console game with those stupid anal jokes popping up every couple of hours.

The community is all but gone! Sad but true - no matter how immature it was, at least it existed.

My last real main was named Kuju on three different servers, and the one before that was as well.

:3

:D. I've been using this name since I started playing a certain MUD back around the year 2000. At the time, I had actually been under the impression I made it up lol. I try to use it when I can, but it seems to get harder and harder to "tag" it. I've got another one in my bag though that usually is always free.

Making the game LESS casual frendly? lolwhat.  The game is now so casual friendly that unless your doing heroic raids, everything is ridiculusly easy.  Class balance is whack and pvp is very limited. Pvp outside of instanced battlegrounds is pretty much non-existent any more (even on pvp realms) since everyone either flys everywhere or teleports.

In vanilla wow actually felt like an MMORPG, with no flying mounts the world felt huge and you actually had battles between horde and alliance in the outside world.

If your out leveling a new alt (because actual new players are few and far between now), you don't even need to move out of the capitol because you can just spam 5 man instances right up to the level cap.  If you actually go out and quest everything is soloable.  Wow is now more like a 3d chat lobby where everyone is either in a raid instance, a 5 man instance, a battleground instance, or idling in a city.

Vanilla was by far the best experience in WoW or any other MMO in that matter ever with epic world pvp and the GM grind was just epic also the PVE was better imo then it has been the last 3 xpacs.  Yea you can argue GM grind took no skill but does Arenas really take skill or just class combinations?

Flying mounts should never been implemented in a PVP game it destroyed world PVP which is why I got interested in WoW in the first place quiting FFXI which was a great game back in 2004.

CAT put me off MMO's for a while I am slowly returning to other games but if I go anywhere near a WoW client.. meh, I won't be paying a sub to WoW again so should be safe from it's nickel and diming. Probably.

But because WoW has produced a reaction like that in me, and apparently other subbers since they saw a loss of subs recently, then it could be a sign of things to come in terms of downfall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nDjEZjkWVc

To the OP, the write up was pretty good. I had a lot of friends who enjoyed casual pvp. They are not great at pvp, but in Vanilla & BC, you did not need to be great to get rewards. Since, Wrath and rating requirements a good number of non arena peeps have pretty poor gear.  Facing poorly geared folks makes pvping boring.  

I stopped reading at this part

The Problem with WoW:CAT is the (1)PvP is now destroyed, while at the same time,(2) Blizzard is making PvE less and less casual friendly.

The pvp part is fairly spot on. But to say PVE is less casual friendly is like pissing in the wind. The last two expansions have taken 99% of the challange out of all PVE content. They basicly hold your hand all the way to 85 and beyound. Every patch makes the heroics and endgame raids easier and easier by giving you stronger and stronger buffs when you enter them.

So to say PVE is not casual friendly is just showing that your plain stupid / ranting on the game and talking about something you know nothing about.

If anything the reasion people are leaving WoW is because its too easy. Gone are the early days of having to spend weeks learning a raid in order to beat it. Not its basicly first time enter and you know whats going to happen. Its just a matter of not being stupid is all.

The reason WoW died a death with me was Cata...

they brought out an expansion that sundered the world, ok can live with that. they sundered and changed the world a week i think it was before release (this should have happened on the night of release with the servers going down at a certain time after a big fight had taken place).

It felt like the expansion only brought a few new area's and 5 levels.... the new race combos were brought in before cata went live as again it was suppose to be something with cata expansion.

The dungeon drops from DM and other dungeons they gave heroic mode, used the old items and graphics amd just stuck higher stats on them, I felt like they made no real effot in designing new items and gear.

The only way to improve gear was to add higher and higher stats, but they didnt add an extra 10 or 20 int, stam they went overboard to +300.

The open Pvp was fun, but now BG's and res are in game it becomes more boring than anything else.

thought this tread was about feral druids XD but its about a guy who got killed by a feral druid :P

yea right, wow is dieing, only 10 million subs!

so basically you say all mmos are dead, rightie? :)

next.

Dear OP. You are wrong. Very wrong.

PvP kept vanilla going? I'm sorry, on both servers i played in vanilla, the first one and the second i switched to after PvP-RP were introduced there was 1, literally one Alliance group doing PvP despite server population being medium to high. AV happened 1-2 times a week at tops and only if we actually organized it and talked with horde players to queue up for it. 

Sure not many people got to do end game PvE as well, moslty because 40 man raids were not the most accessible part of the game. You needed 40 people to get anywhere, plenty of guilds don't even have that many people, not to mention that many regulars at top level, with decent gear. 

There was however loads of people raiding Stratholme and UBRS, later on ZG when it came out as it was smaller scale, that's where mos tof lvl 60ties hanged out. Apart fromt hat majority of WoW players never reached 60 level, they make alts all the time, hang around high 40 ties. 

Cata lost those subs because of Blizzard not providing enough meaningful content. Heroic raids don't count. They are not new content, they are contentyou just did with few new gimmicks. Majority of semi-hardcore raid guilds don't care about heroic raids because they are not fun. It's challenge for sake of challenge and nothing more. Just compare numbers of guilds that cleared Bastion of Twilight versus number of peopel that killed heroic mode bosses. The difference is huge. 

And then you have Blizzard realising new raid tier, with 7 bosses. 7 bosses. Other raid tiers had double that. Sometimes, like in TBC, they were even split between 2 different raid instances offering some variation (Kara/Gruul/Magth, TK/SSC and BT/Hyjal). ICC had themed wings and came with 3 5mans on top of that.

Single raid instance with 7 bosses is just not enough for 6 months since Cata came out. Simple as that. 

I don't think Blizzard is done with WoW yet, but they will lose more players before they start gaining again. And the reason for that is that they will not be able to produce content fast enough before TOR is available.

Here is my prediction:

Looking at US and EU only (let's say 5 mil subs), WoW is going to lose more than 50% of their subs within the first 2 months from TOR's release.

Blizzard already knows that they are (or will be) in trouble, but I am 100% sure that they are working very hard to make sure that the expansion that they will announce at Blizzcon will be absolutely EPIC and when it releases they will start winning some of those lost subs back. Not all of them will come back, but a lot will.

In the end, WoW is going to end up with less than 3 million subs in the EU/US. Not sure what the situation for Asia is and I don't really care.

Also, when all of this happen, us as the players, will benefit as competition in the MMO market is absolutely essential to make sure the genre evolves how we want it to.

PS: TERA, GW2 and Secret Wolrd are also going to stir the pot a bit. Interesting times ahead ;)

I keep hope, they will upgrade Cata...

I loved WoW so much, but can't pay just to wait for party or make hard, but same stuff every day. Beside Cata had nothing much to offer me, so my fun ended & sub followed.

But if content will be added, I'm ready to renew it.