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Isane
Apprentice Member
Joined: 5/24/06
"Some do , Some don''t , Others just cry" Jean Sali |
6/06/11 1:31:54 PM#21
Originally posted by Baikal I think we have a bitter and twisted pre NGE SWG player here; Awful post that really doesn't warrant reply because it is so far off track it beggars belief. "Lucas Arts Screwed nothing Up"
Bioware and Lucas Arts have a great working relationship just look to all the new cannon they have developed together. The need to reply is just to state a couple of things ; SWTOR is a different beast to SWG it has been developed by the Masters of the RPG , and to be honest not really sure they should be compared. A fantastic all round development nopt to be compared witha legacy MMO which is all but dead. Whatever come of SWTOR will be but failure is not in the mix. ...... One question did Lucas Arts loose money on SWG ? Because thats the benchmark and I am not sure money was lost... ________________________________________________________ |
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6/06/11 1:34:53 PM#22
Originally posted by teakbois Why don't you post some proof instead of treating your baseless speculation as if it is some fact filled statement and at the same time demanding proof from other people? How about you practice a little of what you are preaching.
What varifiable information have you ever brought to your claims that would make anyone look like a fool for not agreeing with you? Really what information have you given that could possibly validate this topic?
So far you just seem to keep repeating the same misinformation and baseless speculation as if saying it over and over will validate it. It doesn't work that way. Why don't you pony up a few links to support your claims? That sure would be refreshing.
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6/06/11 1:36:16 PM#23
Originally posted by Isane Did you mean to quote a different post? |
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6/06/11 1:38:36 PM#24
If LA was to blame, then why SOE, has not been given an ok to make a SWG2.0. Why did LA go with Bioware to make a new MMORPG. i mean, if they were to blame and SOE just went along with them, full knowing it would kill the game, why didn't they get that second chance. Hell, If LA was to blame, then why didn't they automatically tell SOE to convert back to the old code. |
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6/06/11 1:39:28 PM#25
Long as Smedly* is not involved I'm ok |
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6/06/11 1:54:03 PM#26
Originally posted by Baikal No he doesn't and your link pretty much invalidates the need for this entire posts random speculation, so I assume the information you link will get ignored. |
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6/06/11 1:57:04 PM#27
Originally posted by teakbois If your looking for a new pre ngu galaxies this is not the game u are looking for sorry about your luck and just because it isnt pre ngu doesn't say that it will fail..They want to apeal to masses not to a select few they want to make a good game but also make a profit sorry that just how business works and sandbox games don't make crap. |
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Originally posted by musicmann If you were unhappy with a game would you go back to the developer? Lucas Arts was not happy with SWG, and not happy with its numbers. Although LA did give SoE a second star wars 'game'. And why didnt LA tell SoE to go back to their old code? Why would their being at blame make a difference in their decision to let SoE use the old code? It flopped either way.
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Originally posted by Daffid011 How about this quote from Smedley in 2006:
It’s often frustrating to work with third party IP. There’s a constant battle over what the right direction is for the game, and from our own recent experience, it’s not something we enjoy. It very often puts handcuffs on what we can and can’t do and, frankly speaking, it’s a lot harder to make great games when the IP holders don’t understand the online gaming market. |
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Originally posted by zephermarkus Reading comprehension has failed you. never once asked for SWTIR to be a sandbox |
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Distopia
 Drifter
Joined: 11/22/05
If it contains the words video and game, it must be a WOW clone. |
6/06/11 2:17:02 PM#31
1. SWG was released in such bad shape because they more or less gutted the game and attempted to change things at the very end of Beta. (source, many beta testers over the years). Though the guy in charge of LA at the time said openly in an interview, he felt deadlines were more important than well made games. He was replaced not long after and took a substantial part of the blame from the public, on why many SW products were bad games while he was in charge. I can't remember his name off hand at present. 2. All of that is moot, as it's EA and Bioware who are handling it this time. 3. I do remember statements like that from Dundee (Freeman) about such things (there was also Smeds statement on why working with companies like LA was a bad idea). Even with that said, Dundee also freely admitted that himself and a few others were directly in charge of what these changes impacted as well as the development of them. 4. It's hard to say here, as all that was said in regard to NGE by Brenlo ( I think) and Freeman, was that they created these changes and oversaw them. I will say LA did have a huge marketing push in regard to these changes, as well as made many statements that damaged their rep for quite a while. For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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6/06/11 2:22:40 PM#32
Originally posted by teakbois you are a bit misinformed.
its not Lucas Arts you'll need to worry about - its EA, because EA bought a big chunk of LA's publisher rights shortly after taking over BioWare. |
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Erstok
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/06/09
Fanatics are picturesque, mankind would rather see gestures than listen to reason. |
6/06/11 2:24:18 PM#33
SW:ToR is going to be nothing more then Dragon Age with lightsabers online. Quite honestly, no NGE type things will not happen to ToR. People will be busy with an end game of having sex with a party member npc they swooned through game to worry about NGE and raids (gawd I hate RPGS these days).
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6/06/11 2:30:56 PM#34
Originally posted by Malickie A theory that Smedley also embraces - for what game has SOE released in proper shape? So its hard to say who's to blame in this respect. Although there is the Kotor II fiasco which is believed to have been caused by LA setting very unreasonable deadlines to Obsidian. |
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Distopia
Drifter
Joined: 11/22/05
If it contains the words video and game, it must be a WOW clone. |
6/06/11 2:33:04 PM#35
Originally posted by Troneas True on all counts. For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson If you can't argue the point don't say anything at all. |
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6/06/11 2:41:44 PM#36
Originally posted by teakbois I see only one flaw in using the Smedley quote and that is BioWare (and Dark Horse Comics) created The Old Republic era and Lucas Arts has from the start let them do what they pleased, the only major issues being the names of two npcs in KOTOR. While in the case of Star Wars: Galaxies the lore was already firmly established and Sony has to adapt to what already existed.
BioWare made the smart decision all those years back when Lucas Arts gave them the option of making a game around the time of the Clone Wars or going 4,000 years back and having a lot more freedom. There is a reason why the Star Wars buffs love the lore bits released by BioWare and that's because with them is the chance to learn something completely new to Star Wars.
I would be far more worried if BioWare were making a game from an era that was already set in stone as Sony did, instead of an era that is all but a blank canvas they have themselves have already outlined the final picture too.
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6/06/11 2:47:03 PM#37
In my opinion Lucas Arts will do what it has currently done. Screw up Star Wars just to make a buck. Or do you feel the new Clone Wars cartoon movie was on the same line of quality as New Hope?
We all hate on Smedley, and SOE for what it did to SWG. Yet where is the same anger at Jullio Torres? Nancy McIntyre?
It wasn't SOE that in 2004 looked at their numbers, and said Hrmm Star Wars Battlefront has reached our top seller.. yet sits behind HALO.
It wasn't Smed who took over in Aprl 2004 and cut the staff from 450 to 190 due to their financial issues. While re-structuring and saying they needed to re-do, re-coup and turn the numbers around.
Smedly still has his job. Lucas Arts has gone through how many CEO's? As long as the NDA stays for the who actually was responsible for the NGE we can argue, point fingers, and make speculations. SOE has made some epic-crap-tastic games. As has Lucas arts.. Or did you love Force Unleashed 2, and Indiana Jones the fate of atlantis. Yet if you look at the data, you may see Lucas Arts isn't as rock stable, nor financially sound as you may have thought. As for them making crap to catch a buck, remember it was Lucas not SOE that gave us Jar Jar Binks.
Will Bioware suffer? Not as much. Lucas has had 6 years to refine SWG NGE 2.0 aka SWTOR SWTOR. Face it, in the Scooby Doo Mystery Solving Van of coolness, this game is Velma. In this current MMO climate it has about as much chance for survival as a group of inquisitive teenagers in a 1980s slasher flick. -Tardcore May, 2011 |
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6/06/11 2:47:10 PM#38
Originally posted by Daffid011 Again, a strange notion. I've seen SWG vets blame and hate SOE like forever saying things like SWG was a bad game, and how crappy SOE as developer was/is, all the while ignoring the simple fact that they had a blast of a time in that game and for many among them it still is how an MMORPG should be, looking at the constant complaints about SWTOR and other current themepark MMO's. So, those people want to blame and bash SOE primarily because of the NGE but at the same time not give credit to SOE and its development team for some of the best fun they've had in an MMORPG? Sorry, but that makes no sense at all.
As for whether Lucas Arts or SOE people were responsible, I've heard claims made of both being responsible for this 'Big Wrong' of the NGE and whatever, but I've seen little proof and sources of either viewpoint. The only thing I recall reading about it, is a dev saying that they were bleeding 10k subs a month and that SWG was doing less well than people thought it was doing or than it used to do as 1 of the reasons for the change. The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's |
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6/06/11 2:51:50 PM#39
Originally posted by teakbois [1] "[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not." Also, why do you think Lucas Arts released SWG? [2] The NGE happened, because SOE is greedy and treats their customers as disposable. SWG, like most SOE games, was released to initial high numbers, but then rapidly decline as the games poor quality and incomplete nature shines through. EQ2, Free Realms, DCU, SWG... See the trend? [3] Considering how many other SOE games have gone through post release combat updates, combat revamps, etc I think it is a pretty well founded theory. Again, do you have anything to suggest it was Lucas Arts hand that created anything? [4] You don't hear players pining for the old combat system on the SWG forums, because those people quit already. This seems like a pretty obvious statement and I'm really scratching my head that you overlooked something this easy. Furthermore why you accept that it was the SOE devs who admitted to initiating these drastic changes, but somehow think they were "forced" to make the other drastic changes of the NGE? The SOE devs didn't seem to have a problem removing hotkey combat and turning it into third person shooter, so why would they mind changing anything else? [5] Imagine what EQ2 would be like if it had 6-12 more months of player feedback and could have avoided all the combat revamps, quest revamps, overland revamps, crafting revamps that went on the first year. Apply that same logic to DCU, MTG:Tactics, Free Realms and every other game SOE has put out. Again, see a trend? [6] "[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not." -John Smedley Oct 2007 [7] 5 years, $55 million dollars and a huge IP to build on and they delivered one of the biggest failures in mmo history. You can make all the excuses you want, but this is just another example of SOE releasing an unfinished, buggy, poor release that had huge amounts of players leaving within a few months.
Think about this for one second, before you go making claims that Lucas Arts forced anything. SOE is paying for the license rights to develop a Star Wars mmo. If they were forced to make changes to the game that resulted in their loss of hundreds of thousands of monthly subscription fees, don't you think that would make for a nice lawsuit? We are talking about the loss of tens of millions every year as a result of the NGE. Answer that one. |
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6/06/11 3:05:56 PM#40
Originally posted by MMO.Maverick [1] "[We're] refocusing SOE on high quality and not rushing releases," said of his coming crop of games. They learned many valuable lessons from EverQuest II and its head-to-head competition against World of Warcraft. Fact was, while both games did rather well, WoW had the budget, time and polish that EverQuest II did not." From John Smedleys warcry interview in 2007. LINK [2] A development studio that is completely purchased and owned by the publisher is a different story. SOE isn't owned by Lucas Arts. Obiously Lucas Arts has some control of what their partner can or can't do, but they can't dictate changes that would cost A) millions to implement and B) cause the direct loss of tens of millions a year without being open to legal action. [3] I'm not a SWG vet as the term gets used around here. I quit SWG before the first expansion, because the game was so broken, unfinished and mismanged. I was actually playing EQ2 when the NGE hit and ironically it was getting its own version of a combat upgrade at that very same time. Again angering and driving more customers away. SWG is just another game that SOE screwed up and shit on their players. No different than most SOE games. It just had more potential than most mmos that release, but that is in large part due to Raph Koster and not Smed. Smed actually drove Koster from the company.
The quote about SWG bleeding 10k a month was in reference to the game before the combat upgrade. That same SOE dev went on to explain that the combat upgrade actually started growing the game again. The NGE was actually developed in secret during a time that SWG was growing again.
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