Originally posted by InFaVilla

It is therefore more appropiate to simply just type down any response that has at least something to do with one of the many ways, even wrong ones, in which the first opening post could be interpetrated. An observation such as that one angerbeaver gave, is thus, in my view, completely appropiate. He shares his experience through a post which neither attempts to state any generalization nor tries to be of higher intellectual value in any way: it is a very neutral comment.  A a consequence, I think it was right of him to lash back at Drachasor's reply; Drachasor was attempting to play a futile game of intellectual incest, whereas angerbeaver was just following the casual true spirit of the thread and forums.

Yes, why bother educating people on reality when we can pretend that the truth doesn't matter, eh?

I think it is of value to point out that our brains are horrible at figuring out what populations are like as a whole.  Many people do not know it and it is something worth knowing.  Going by experience, gut feeling, etc, etc, will lead people astray here.

Now, your reaction might be "blabeblabeblah, reality doesn't matter let's all be subjective bleepbloop!", but in my view at that point the conversation only has the semblence of actual meaning.  Now, if it was a thread about whether people liked game X or what they liked about it, obviously subjective opinion and what individuals thought would matter a lot.  That ISN'T what this thread is about; it's about what a population is like, therefore it is entirely appropriate to point out that humans suck at figuring that sort of thing out without careful statistics or other good forms of measure.

I cant agree that girls have a higher affinity to healing.  To sound like a clique: some of the BEST healers I have known are male.  I find women evenly spread out between healers, casters and tanks.  Fewer in melee, but thats my experience. 

Yeah what Ifavilla said....

Why do people always try to turn things types of topics into a hyper intellectual game to show off that they are educated and can use big words instead of talking about the topic? The OP gave a poll and wanted to hear what people thought about it. He didn't ask for empirical evidence, he didn't ask if anyone had a survey or specific data that can prove his question. He just wanted to know what people think. So what do people do? They tell you what they think based on their own personal experience. They don't have to have loads of evidence to back up their claims they just have to say what they think and why they think it, usually based off their own experience.

So here's my experience, my best online friend always plays healing classes and I mean always, he is a guy, but I don't think he chooses healing classes because he is a male. On the flip side if I took a poll of people in the guild I was in the longest it would have overwhelmingly shown that females chose support classes like healers more then males. Does that mean all women are like that? Not necessarily, does that mean that when we step back and look at all women we wouldn't notice that in terms of numbers women tend to play healing roles more then men? We won't know until somone can poll a large enough portion of the gaming population from different games, and even then there will be other factors that can make that census unreliable, as there always is in polls.

Let's remember folks this a gaming forum. We are not writing peer reviewed scientific studies, we are replying to posts on a gaming forum about games, our experience in those games, and what we would like to experience in those games.

Originally posted by k11keeper

Why do people always try to turn things types of topics into a hyper intellectual game to show off that they are educated and can use big words instead of talking about the topic? The OP gave a poll and wanted to hear what people thought about it. He didn't ask for empirical evidence, he didn't ask if anyone had a survey or specific data that can prove his question. He just wanted to know what people think. So what do people do? They tell you what they think based on their own personal experience. They don't have to have loads of evidence to back up their claims they just have to say what they think and why they think it, usually based off their own experience.

It's not a game.  Reality MATTERS.  Truth MATTERS.  The OP asks a question with an objective answer (even if we don't know it).  It is certainly relevant to the topic at hand to talk about the merits of personal experience with regards to population statistics.

I'm sorry if you need a dictionary to look up the word "statistics", but I think the vast, vast majority of people on these forums can handle that word just fine.  I also think most people can discuss such matters at a reasonable level for a forum.

So are you saying reality isn't relevant to a discussion about what a population is like?  Are you saying people don't like reality and we shouldn't talk about it?  Or are you saying the people on here are too stupid or ignorant to handle such a discussion?  I don't think any of those things.  In fact, I find it absurd that you seem to think mentioning statistics or the like is some attempt to show off "big words".

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by InFaVilla

It is therefore more appropiate to simply just type down any response that has at least something to do with one of the many ways, even wrong ones, in which the first opening post could be interpetrated. An observation such as that one angerbeaver gave, is thus, in my view, completely appropiate. He shares his experience through a post which neither attempts to state any generalization nor tries to be of higher intellectual value in any way: it is a very neutral comment.  A a consequence, I think it was right of him to lash back at Drachasor's reply; Drachasor was attempting to play a futile game of intellectual incest, whereas angerbeaver was just following the casual true spirit of the thread and forums.

Yes, why bother educating people on reality when we can pretend that the truth doesn't matter, eh?

I think it is of value to point out that our brains are horrible at figuring out what populations are like as a whole.  Many people do not know it and it is something worth knowing.  Going by experience, gut feeling, etc, etc, will lead people astray here.

Now, your reaction might be "blabeblabeblah, reality doesn't matter let's all be subjective bleepbloop!", but in my view at that point the conversation only has the semblence of actual meaning.  Now, if it was a thread about whether people liked game X or what they liked about it, obviously subjective opinion and what individuals thought would matter a lot.  That ISN'T what this thread is about; it's about what a population is like, therefore it is entirely appropriate to point out that humans suck at figuring that sort of thing out without careful statistics or other good forms of measure.

In that particular post, he did not claim that his personal experience accurately represents a population as a whole. That's something you assumed he implied.  He merely shared his personal experience without generalizing.

For me, the only useful meaning of this conversation, is that I am entertained. I wouldn't be surprised if the same goes for the majority of the rest of the readers too.  I find it entertaining how you haven't even dealt with the definitions of the words "affinity" and "nature" and still insist on dealing with the subject at hand in an "intellectual" manner. You do undestand why I find those words to be vague? I certainly hope I do not need to spell it out for you. However, like I've said before, I don't think most readers would find such analysis entertaining at all.

I will remind you, that this is "mmorpg.com", how can you be sure that the purpose of thread was not to simply get some subjective comments from other readers?

Originally posted by InFaVilla

In that particular post, he did not claim that his personal experience accurately represents a population as a whole. That's something you assumed he implied.  He merely shared his personal experience without generalizing.

For me, the only useful meaning of this conversation, is that I am entertained. I wouldn't be surprised if the same goes for the majority of the rest of the readers too.  I find it entertaining how you haven't even dealt with the definitions of the words "affinity" and "nature" and still insist on dealing with the subject at hand in an "intellectual" manner. You do undestand why I find those words to be vague? I certainly hope I do not need to spell it out for you. However, like I've said before, I don't think most readers would find such analysis entertaining at all.

 I will remind you, that this is "mmorpg.com", how can you be sure that the purpose of thread was not to simply get some subjective comments from other readers?

In my particular post, I didn't claim he thought anything, I was merely pointing out that anecdotal evidence sucks.

No, I don't find those words to be particularly vague when you place them in the context of the OP thinking so because more healers are female in his (remembered) experience.

If someone makes a post about how fast things can go in the universe with a poll, then reality doesn't matter there either, in your opinion?  Frankly I disagree completely, and talking about whether one's feelings or whatever are accurate is certainly within the bounds of the topic.  But I guess that doesn't matter that much to you either, considering you are having this argument and apparently are claiming to know what most of the people on here want.

I do not think it is I that has the problem with making assumptions.

Shouldn't the poll be 'Do guys playing girls have a higher affinity for healing than guys playing guys'?

I mean... girls playing video games?  Ridiculous!  They have more important things to do than waste time wasting time with guys playing silly electronic amusements. :(

This is a stereotype found in MMO's. 6 years in WoW i came across some girls & women playing anything than healer classes. In a high ranked PvE guild i was in with my hunter the class leader was a student girl. I am not ashamed to say that she was always above me on the dps meters. My brothers feancee (now his wife) was playing an orc roguess and pwned hard in PvP. She was a notorious ganker as well.

I never really thought about it actualy. I was a nutcase raider in Warcraft for alot of years. When I finally quit right after downing nef a few months ago our raid group consisted of all our tanks minus one (this is for all raid groups) were girls and all the healers were guys lol.

I think we had a general balance for dps between men and women.

I have always played healers or hybrid healers in every game I have ever played. For me it is usaully about down time (healing myself limits it for grinding) and not being at the mercy of someone else healing me when I screw up. Plus I find it immensly satisfying when surounded by good players that you enable to mow through the oposition that is in turn trying to destroy you -the healer.

Why women like to play tank roles I am not to sure about....They get to control the entire encounter is all I can think of off the top of my head :)P You know women with needing to control everything , yep time to run from the wife ..........

Whoops.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Kyleran

I voted yes, as this has been my personal experience / perception in several MMO's, particularly DAOC and WOW.

People absolutely suck at figuring out statistical trends.  Our brains aren't remotely wired for it....and in fact we've evolved to "play it safe" since figuring out whether an imaginary correlation is real or not (or if your data is any good) is a good way to get killed.

I wasn't figuring out statistical trends, just relaying my personal experience which may not be  typical.  Your results may vary.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by InFaVilla

In that particular post, he did not claim that his personal experience accurately represents a population as a whole. That's something you assumed he implied.  He merely shared his personal experience without generalizing.

For me, the only useful meaning of this conversation, is that I am entertained. I wouldn't be surprised if the same goes for the majority of the rest of the readers too.  I find it entertaining how you haven't even dealt with the definitions of the words "affinity" and "nature" and still insist on dealing with the subject at hand in an "intellectual" manner. You do undestand why I find those words to be vague? I certainly hope I do not need to spell it out for you. However, like I've said before, I don't think most readers would find such analysis entertaining at all.

 I will remind you, that this is "mmorpg.com", how can you be sure that the purpose of thread was not to simply get some subjective comments from other readers?

In my particular post, I didn't claim he thought anything, I was merely pointing out that anecdotal evidence sucks.

No, I don't find those words to be particularly vague when you place them in the context of the OP thinking so because more healers are female in his (remembered) experience.

If someone makes a post about how fast things can go in the universe with a poll, then reality doesn't matter there either, in your opinion?  Frankly I disagree completely, and talking about whether one's feelings or whatever are accurate is certainly within the bounds of the topic.  But I guess that doesn't matter that much to you either, considering you are having this argument and apparently are claiming to know what most of the people on here want.

I do not think it is I that has the problem with making assumptions.

Meh, my long reply was deleted due to accidental page refresh. So I'll give a short one.

---

If you did not want your post to do such implications, then you shouldn't have quoted him and posted that you dislike anecdotal "evidence", simultaneously. 

---

If you consult dictionary.com regarding the definition of "affinity", you get different options. If you choose to investigate one of them, you would be required to investigate what "natural" means, which in turn yields 31 definitions; we can probably exclude several of them.  If we use the possible definition: "existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge."

we are suddenly forced to exclude any artifical factors which might have affected the attraction towards healing. The point is that if one is going to do a proper analysis of the question at hand, one should start with the definitions. 

--

If someone made a poll about how fast things can go in the universe, it wouldn't be a topic related to mmorpgs. I would also dislike the question, since there is a clear distinction between objects with and without mass.  On the other hand, it could have been intended as a joke thread, in which people post stuff about how fast certain celebreties can go, etc.

 Depending on the topic, one would need to make a judgement call to see what was sought for and what is appropiate. In this case sharing experiences should be fine as long as they don't do any generalizations based on them. 

Girls are healers because their boyfriends and husbands make them go healers to heal bot them. It's all they know because of how they were introduced into the game.

I put down no.  I do not think that there is a general trend towards girls wanting to play a healer more then anything else.  Most of the girls that I know in real life who play these games seem to like playing dps.  Of course this could just be a coincidence.  I think it is impossible to generalise a whole group of people because everyone is different.

Girls I meet in games are usually the most ruthless. I guess I am a magnet for bad girls ;)

Generally I would go with no. I've seen plenty of girls that go as rangers because of the pets they can have or magic classes because of the robe armor.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Loktofeit

I don't know if they have a higher affinity for it, but from my own experiences they seem much less prone to blowing a gasket over idiots going out of range and they don't seem to get easily ego-bruised if someone slights their prowess as a healer. This is froma  decade or so of PvP, btw, as I am rarely in Vent/TS/RW/BC/etc for PvE so I rarely know who or what the healer is in those groups.

Are they more prone to being healers? No clue.

Are they better at it? In my experience, they can handle the stress of it better.

Girls actually tend to be more emotionally reactive, not less. This gives the average male player an advantage over the average women.

 

Have no clue why a particular women might not say anything after the group wipes because of a line of sight issue, but it's less likely that they are emotionally keeping their cool and more likely they are reacting like a lot of guys and trying to avoid responsibility.

I read a study years and years ago comparing female pilots of high performance jets with their male counterparts, which concluded that women were better at keeping their cool under stress, not worse.  They lagged behind on spacial awareness comparisons though.  Take that for what it is: unverified trivia.

For my part, I haven't known any RL female healers.  They tended heavily towards DPS and the rare tank.  But that's nothing conclusive.  I rarely get confirmation of the genders of the people I play with so it's more a case that I never knew when I was playing with a healer who was a RL woman. 

I think there probably is something to gamer tendancies and gender though.  After all, we are still subject to our genetic predisposition, no matter how enlightened we've become compared to our more primitive ancestors.

that was just about what i was thinking since i don't really think the only reason a girl would want to be a tank is the fact that they wanted to prove they could do it but i knew one chick who prefered to be a tank and her bf was the healer but mostly because she was the aggressive one(not meaning she just tanked to prove she could) in the couple so i guess it really isn't a yes or no answer to this question just more of a personality kind of thing really since i know two chicks that i game with one is a soft speaking and mumbling shy girl and the other is a annoying b!@#h and take a guess which roles they use well the shy one takes the role of a support class while the more aggresive one takes the role of a tank so i guess my answer if i had to choose yes or no then i would go with no and also nah not so much chauvinist just more of a sexist stereotype which probably could be the same thing i guess?

Originally posted by ichimarunico

I won't say definitely for or against, I'll only provide my WoW guild as an example.

We have about 40 active members. Of them,10 are female. Of those females, 7 that I know of are healers. Of those, 5 are priests. The other two that come to mind are hunters, and the one whose name I can't remember is an Ele Sham.

What do we take from this? That I shouldn't be able to remember my guild roster this well. =|

 Wow, a whole sample size of 10 from 1 guild in 1 game... now we're cooking with bacon...

Because women choose to bea healer 9/10 times doesn't mean they are better or have an affinity for it. All they haven an affinity for is collecting useless in game items like pets and mounts.

women make better thieves, because they're so good at stealing my breath away.

Or

Women make better rogues, because they're so good at stabbing me in the back and breaking my heart.

AHAHA.

On a serious note, it's possible that statistically more women prefer one class over another, but I wouldn't count it as a rule. There's a lot of things that can influence a gamers play style, the least of which is gender.