Whats your opinion?

Should Archeage have gone with Faction vs Faction rather than FFA for controlling PvP?

Archeage seems to me, to be more of a Sandbox/TP hybrid the more I look into it. That seems like a good idea. But once again, like every other Sandbox MMO, the developers choose to have FFA PvP rather than DAoC Factions system.

for once I would like to see a Sandbox, or Hybrid(S/TP) that uses Factions instead of FFA. Especially when there are harsh DP that can easily be exploited and abused.

The feeling of Faction pride is one of the greatest feelings in a PvP game settings.

FFA usually turns into a Guild Battle, which usually run people into the bigger guilds rather than smaller mid size guilds.

Some people say that Factions are a restriction and that restrictions dont fit into the meaning of a Sandbox MMO. yes that may be true, but Archeage already has many TB restrictions in it as it is. Which IMO, is why it could be one of the most successful Sandbox MMO on the market if done right. So why not add some TP elements to the PvP as well.

Most Sandbox MMO get turned into PvP games because of the FFA/HDP. Well lets do away with that this time, and add some DAoC PvP elements to future sandbox mmo?

I know PvE focused mmo dont do well, but nether does PvP focus MMO (which is something that most Sandbox MMO turn into).

There need to be a balance of the two. and FFA just makes it nearly impossible to develop PvP elements for the long run.

Finally someone else who gets it -

FFA PvP is a design crutch used by unimaginative developers who can't create new, innovative ideas and instead fall back on 10+ year old game mechanics.

Exactly like "theme park" MMO devs who are unimaginative enough to restrict "factions" to two-sided wars.

Political / alignment / moral systems in MMOs have always been a joke because they have always been so very heavily skewed in favor of the PK/pirate/evil characters.

Choosing to "break the rules" and go against the game's society and political power structure should be a choice that brings with it HEAVY, and I mean HEAVY consequence.

PK/pirate/evil characters in MMOs have always had things so easy, much easier then the idealist / altruistic players who don't want to be assholes - to actually have some honor and respect for their fellow player.

Hence, the bad out weigh and out number the good in EVERY single FFA PvP MMO in all of MMO gaming history.

As such, FFA PvP will always = niche fail game unless someone wises up, evolves the static 10+ year old archaic design, and is innovative enough to create a truely dynamic, properly balanced system.

Why not both?
Inside the kingdom borders you only can kill players of an enemy kindgom or evil people and outside of kingdom borders its anarchy...kill or get killed.

PvE MMOs do MUCH better than PvP MMOs, even a PvP MMO is doing well it does bcs there is a heavy PvE part that outweights the PvP but gives the PvPers and PvEers reason to interact to both sides favor.
EvE is NOT a PvP game or a PvP centered game - it is a politic/economy/business simulation in space where a small part of the people (the ones doing PvP) make a loud noise and have some impact on the game.
But afaik >80% of the players do waymore PvE than PvP.

FPS games be PvP centric - a good MMORPG is never bcs overall PvP can only be ONE of MANY activites you do ingame!

Why does it matter? It's going to be a level/gear grind game, and the top powergamers are going to dominate. The rest will start dropping off as they see they can't keep up with them.

Originally posted by heerobya

Finally someone else who gets it -

FFA PvP is a design crutch used by unimaginative developers who can't create new, innovative ideas and instead fall back on 10+ year old game mechanics.

Exactly like "theme park" MMO devs who are unimaginative enough to restrict "factions" to two-sided wars.

Political / alignment / moral systems in MMOs have always been a joke because they have always been so very heavily skewed in favor of the PK/pirate/evil characters.

Choosing to "break the rules" and go against the game's society and political power structure should be a choice that brings with it HEAVY, and I mean HEAVY consequence.

I agree. And in some FFA such consequences have been very well designed. In EVE if you decide to

PK/pirate/evil characters in MMOs have always had things so easy, much easier then the idealist / altruistic players who don't want to be assholes - to actually have some honor and respect for their fellow player.

Hence, the bad out weigh and out number the good in EVERY single FFA PvP MMO in all of MMO gaming history.

As such, FFA PvP will always = niche fail game unless someone wises up, evolves the static 10+ year old archaic design, and is innovative enough to create a truely dynamic, properly balanced system.

 

In my opinion your statements are utterly wrong, and EVE is the proof.

EVE's FFA has led to a deeper pvp system than any other FvF setup (even the one in DAoC). Players have build their own Factions and political system through powerblocks and mega-alliances. The depth reached inEVE's system couldn't have been achieved if players would have been stuck in one of the 4 initial empire factions.

FFA isn't a design per se. The set of rules, tools and objectives applied to the FFA are the key to make it work.

I prefer FFA PvP. Why? Merely personal preferences. Unless FvF has more than 2 factions, one faction tends to get overpopulated, thus easily defeating the opposing faction, and that is something I've always disliked. FFA PvP gives a bit more freedom to players on who, where and when they can PvP, and create their own factions.

But again, merely personal preferences.

Pretty much agree with the user above me, Greenzor, regarding FFA PvP.

Faction VS Faction is the worst pvp you can have. Why should I have to kill somebody just because they are from the other side of the tracks? The best PVP is Free For All but with a system where it is not a gank fest. I also agree with the poster talking about EVE. Lineage 2 is very much the same way. Lineage 2  and Eve are the only 2 games that I think got PVP right.

ArcheAge will have both - FFA and FvF - at the same time.

The FFA-system is necessary to make territorial warfare and ressource-control really work, which is the most important part for a player-driven economy. You can't do that with fixed factions slugging it out.
It's no problem to have a FFA-system, aslong as there's harsh consequences for criminal actions and somewhat safe areas for the players who prefer PvE over PvP.

FvF will be implemented right away in ArcheAge too tho and you'll get rewards other then ressources for killing players of the other faction. This is good for the more casual players, who can't spend several hours a day into building up their own empire.

EvE Online shows, that it does work. And it's the best system of them all actually, as you're not tied to one playstyle but free to choose what to do. Choice is allways good as it opens up the game and it doesn't get as boring that fast as games where there's no choices in this regard.

PvP itself is a design crutch, intended to substitute player conflict for actual content. The longer you can keep players banging heads with each other, the less real content the designers have to develop. PvE-focused games don't do well? You really mean that? WoW itself was always a PvE game with PvP tacked on. For that matter, Everquest was a PvE game, as the name suggests.

 Factions is an artificial way to distinguish who the enemy is, usually because designers lack the drive or the imagination to break out of that box. Creating distinct races within those factions enhances the automatic distinction of friend or foe.

While I have no love for PvP because of the excessive "rebalancing" it requires and the negative impact it has on community, I can appreciate a system where no artificial barriers are installed to create an inherent conflict. Pre-NGE Star Wars Galaxies was much like this and I think it made the world itself much more immersive.

I dont think its a substitute for content at all. If done right it actually adds more depth to a game. But like I said it must be done right.

I'm so sick of faction vs faction mmo's, i'm really glad that it is FFA. 

I always like how it promotes guild vs guild battles. For me personally I feel like FvF is more of a soloers dream whereas for FFA is more for group playing. 

Never liked FFA PvP. I like having players on my team for no other reason than that we both wear red. I would have to agree that there should be more than 2 factions though.

I don't understand why they just don't have all 3. 

PvE areas where a player could experience all the pve the game has to offer. 

Faction areas where all the mobs are faction based and the land is controlled or lost by faction fighting.  Create a seperate reward system via faction coins or something like that for faction fighters.  Coins would buy faction only items.  Like others have said there does need to be more then on faction.

Last but not least guild area where individual guilds control areas.  Again create a seperate reward system for fighting and killing in these areas.

Let your consumer choose how they want to play instead of thinking you know best.

Originally posted by Venger

I don't understand why they just don't have all 3.

Probably because it's an open-world sandbox and not an heavy instancing themepark.

Who said you don't have factions in FFA? You just create them on your own. Predefined factions is the worst thing possible in PvP. All these political stuff etc. wouldn't even be possible without FFA.

Originally posted by chikso

Who said you don't have factions in FFA? You just create them on your own. Predefined factions is the worst thing possible in PvP. All these political stuff etc. wouldn't even be possible without FFA.

Some players just dont enjoy being stabbed in the back repeatedly, I would guess. Also, if you have more than 2 factions, then political negotiations can be crucial, in my opinion.

Originally posted by chikso

Who said you don't have factions in FFA? You just create them on your own. Predefined factions is the worst thing possible in PvP. All these political stuff etc. wouldn't even be possible without FFA.

t

rue

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by chikso

Who said you don't have factions in FFA? You just create them on your own. Predefined factions is the worst thing possible in PvP. All these political stuff etc. wouldn't even be possible without FFA.

Some players just dont enjoy being stabbed in the back repeatedly, I would guess.

Just one of the hindrances you'll have to overcome for the best pvp ruleset.

Originally posted by chikso

Originally posted by Palebane

Originally posted by chikso

Who said you don't have factions in FFA? You just create them on your own. Predefined factions is the worst thing possible in PvP. All these political stuff etc. wouldn't even be possible without FFA.

Some players just dont enjoy being stabbed in the back repeatedly, I would guess. Also, if you have more than 2 factions, then political negotiations can be crucial, in my opinion.

Just one of the hindrances you'll have to overcome for the best pvp ruleset.

Well that's the beauty of it. I never have to deal with it at all =) To each their own.

Originally posted by heerobya

Finally someone else who gets it -

FFA PvP is a design crutch used by unimaginative developers who can't create new, innovative ideas and instead fall back on 10+ year old game mechanics.

Exactly like "theme park" MMO devs who are unimaginative enough to restrict "factions" to two-sided wars.

Political / alignment / moral systems in MMOs have always been a joke because they have always been so very heavily skewed in favor of the PK/pirate/evil characters.

Choosing to "break the rules" and go against the game's society and political power structure should be a choice that brings with it HEAVY, and I mean HEAVY consequence.

PK/pirate/evil characters in MMOs have always had things so easy, much easier then the idealist / altruistic players who don't want to be assholes - to actually have some honor and respect for their fellow player.

Hence, the bad out weigh and out number the good in EVERY single FFA PvP MMO in all of MMO gaming history.

As such, FFA PvP will always = niche fail game unless someone wises up, evolves the static 10+ year old archaic design, and is innovative enough to create a truely dynamic, properly balanced system.

 

 This, and it gaurentees them subs from the 10k FFA addicts that play everygame with FFA in its title and claim its the next coming of christ.