Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by inBOIL

Originally posted by ktanner3

There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.
 

in english

we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

 

There isn't one that you can play a jedi, and with KOTOR kind of stories.

SO it is all good news.

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

I also thought it was a joke. There have been few posts where people where whining that SW:TOR was not a sandbox because they could simulate moisture farming etc. I think Bioware was pretty open from the start what kind of game this was going to be. I am happy that they at least went with the open-world (or should I say planet?) model similar to WoW and Lotro instead of having lots of instances and small zones.

Originally posted by ukforze

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

It's not really news at all.

It's been known for months if not years that SWToR was going to be a more or less standard themepark except for the Star Wars setting and the Bioware storytelling + companions. It's adding something, which many people enjoy a lot, to the existing gameplay.

And wouldn't really call it a ruined IP. From the info we have thus far it's succeeding at what it's trying to do.

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by Tardcore.

snip

I think it's just a joke. Probably one that's been going in-office for a while. Maybe not the most funny one anymore and maybe not the smartest one to make, but still a joke. People sometimes have weird senses of humor and sometimes it's hard to detect whether or not a joke is funny.

Personally I just mentally play this after each Uncle Owen comment. That seems to put it into a comfortable context. Brillaint but slightly socially awkward game designer making a joke that's almost appropriate but falls just slightly short.

And there's quite a few articles all over with what they're bringing to the table, mostly the story and companions but some other cool stuff as well. It's not a revolutionary game but it seems to be turning out like something very fun nonetheless.

Also in his defence he is a game designer, not a member of their Public Relations devision. Though I seem to remember one of the PR guys causing a stink when he mentioned that they were aiming at the Wow player base.

Anyway it is what it is. I think what Bioware needs to focus the most on is telling us what their game is and not what it isn't. And jokingly or not I find it best that they just let sleeping dogs (in this case angry SWG vets) lie because they have a nasty habbit of bitting you on the ass.

Originally posted by ukforze

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by inBOIL

Originally posted by ktanner3

There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.
 

in english

we´re making a wow kind of game because there isnt one yet?

 

There isn't one that you can play a jedi, and with KOTOR kind of stories.

SO it is all good news.

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

Maybe, we have yet to really see. Also I'm not sure making a game based around electric samurai in space is the best way to devorce yourself from the fantasy genre.

Not sure why this is news to anyone. Back in Feb., Bioware co-founder Greg Zeschuk stated World of Warcraft has "... established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by ktanner3

"Just to manage expectations (and I think we've posted this a number of times now in the last few years).

 

There is already a Star Wars MMO that focuses primarily on these features. We're making a different kind of game and we've been pretty open about that from the start.

That does not mean we are hostile to certain sandbox features such as player built housing - it just means that these kind of features are not a particularly high priority to us at this point as we navigate to ship.

There will certainly be out-of-combat player activities and activities that promote social interaction in the game, but you will not be able to take a job as a moisture farmer on Tatooine and simulate the life of such an individual in our game.

In short: Uncle Owen and his life is not the kind of heroic journey we're going for with this game. (The jawa's with their rocket launchers wouldn't make that a very fun activity anyway)."

Georg "Observer" Zoeller
Principal Lead Combat Designer

This was written in response to a thread on TOR's site asking for sandbox features. 

Well they've made no secret that they had no intention of making SWG pre CUNGE 2, so this isn't exactly breaking news. Nor is it bad news. SWG failed on many levels, both before and after CUNGE. I want to see these guys do their own take on the SW universe, not just rehash someone else's rubbish.

 

However, and I admit it could just be me reading something into his tone that isn't actually there, I feel there is more than a bit of hostility towards the disgruntled SWG vet crowd. I find the whole Uncle Owen and moisture farmer example to be tired and hackneyed, and a piss poor analogy for an argument. Mainly because it so very simplifies (childishly so) what kind of player activities that were possible during the old days of SWG. It is also not meant to be a logical argument (at least I hope these people are a bit better educated than that) but more bait for angst ridden SWG vets to flame out on. I find Zoeller's use of such analogies to be confrontational, foolish, and counter productive.

 

As to his claims that there will be out of combat player activities to promote player interaction, well I hope he is right. However all I've seen so far is you will have less sideline activities to participate in. In old SWG you could be an artisan, politician, or diplomat if you so chose. In SWTOR if you want to have those kinds of adventures it looks like you just have the butler do it.

 

Now I'm not saying that what I am REALLY looking for in a Star Wars game is to live the life of the hole in the wall Gungan haberdasher, but I also expect a bit more for my money than just another "pew pew LaZoR BeAmS" SW combat simulator. And I don't think myself or other SW fans are unjust to expect such features as we were SW fans long before video games even existed.

 

So to Mr. Zoeller, you want to impress us? Then you can start by explaining exactly what you guys bring to the table. Stop with the snide side comments about a certain faction of that "other game". All you are doing with those is alienating a group of people who actually want to be your customers.

You are assuming that it is possible to somehow sway an angst ridden SWG vet to pick up a game that isn't an exact replica of their pre-whatever tearjerker game.  It is probably a better move for them to not try to attract SWG vets with promises of this and that, as it would merely result in said players cancelling after the first comped month of a digital download sale.  That of course leads to a double disgruntled player, and an unnecessary addition to negative buzz in the community, which would only serve to further dissuade an on-the-fence prospective player.

Besides, Bioware has always excercised their right to dickishness in response to hostile expectations.  I for one find it refreshing.  Were I in that same position of being a hate filled, entitled veteran of <dead and buried game>, walking up to a developer and saying "make your game a spiritual successor to <dead and buried game>, or I will forever haunt you with my picket sign and bullhorn," I'd rather be told flat out that I won't get what I want.  There is no developer-community transaction more condescending and panderous than the old "now, this will be different than what you are used to, but you might like it anyway" line, it tends to leave a bad aftertaste more often than not.

Devs having been saying that this was not intended as a sandbox since I started following it in late 2010, and I have known that it wasn't going to be a sandbox since screenshots and information surfaced back in 08.

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by ukforze

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

It's not really news at all.

It's been known for months if not years that SWToR was going to be a more or less standard themepark except for the Star Wars setting and the Bioware storytelling + companions. It's adding something, which many people enjoy a lot, to the existing gameplay.

And wouldn't really call it a ruined IP. From the info we have thus far it's succeeding at what it's trying to do.

instead of hitting the esc key 5 times to skip blabbering quest givers, we have to skip crappy

cinematics this is single player sort of content, plus the space comabt on rails...

yeh nice one bioware :P

Originally posted by SlothnChunk

Not sure why this is news to anyone. Back in Feb., Bioware co-founder Greg Zeschuk stated World of Warcraft has "... established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

 Glad I read the forums from time to time. I went back and found this , since I never saw it originally. In all fairness I was only halfway looking at this game coming out (far more interested in GW2 atm honestly) but was going to give this a spin when it came out anyway.

 If this is the mind set from the get go I will avoid this game flat out. Since it costs so much to make these things and everyone seems to like being t-bagged by wow when it comes to development why dont they just liscense the wow engine and paste in their own stories - replace the epics with purple lasers and flying mounts with x-wings and call it good. After buying the ancient game engine you could develop  it for 49.95$

Bio ware used to be innovative. Nice to see them entering the mmo market with a wow clone.

Fail.

TOR = themepark/some sandbox elements.

Bioware's intentions from the get go was to make, you the player be the hero of the game, not some smuck wandering around different cantina's dancing with sparkles and a light show.

Bioware wants you the player to live in the game world where you participate in a deep and diverse story, where choices matter to who and what you do in the game.

Bioware will also let you the player travel to all the planets in your own ship by the way, and not only get involved in combat situations but explore to your heart desire.

Bioware will also let you have companions, that will not only fight by your side, and will allow you to change and upgrade their weapons and armor, but also let them do your bidding in crafting and diplomatic missions.

All in all, seems like TOR will be a pretty diverse mmorpg that will merge both styles of gameplay, however more or less, togeither very nicely.

Originally posted by 69Cuda

Originally posted by SlothnChunk

Not sure why this is news to anyone. Back in Feb., Bioware co-founder Greg Zeschuk stated World of Warcraft has "... established standards, it's established how you play an MMO. Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

 Glad I read the forums from time to time. I went back and found this , since I never saw it originally. In all fairness I was only halfway looking at this game coming out (far more interested in GW2 atm honestly) but was going to give this a spin when it came out anyway.

 If this is the mind set from the get go I will avoid this game flat out. Since it costs so much to make these things and everyone seems to like being t-bagged by wow when it comes to development why dont they just liscense the wow engine and paste in their own stories - replace the epics with purple lasers and flying mounts with x-wings and call it good. After buying the ancient game engine you could develop  it for 49.95$

Bio ware used to be innovative. Nice to see them entering the mmo market with a wow clone.

 

Fail.

lol spot on

Fair nuff everyones entitled to their opinion but tbh when a company comes out & says this,

i dnt see how ppl can defend them nor the game, was can only judge it when its out, but

bioware are not inspiring confidence on this one

Originally posted by ukforze

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by ukforze

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

It's not really news at all.

It's been known for months if not years that SWToR was going to be a more or less standard themepark except for the Star Wars setting and the Bioware storytelling + companions. It's adding something, which many people enjoy a lot, to the existing gameplay.

And wouldn't really call it a ruined IP. From the info we have thus far it's succeeding at what it's trying to do.

instead of hitting the esc key 5 times to skip blabbering quest givers, we have to skip crappy

cinematics this is single player sort of content, plus the space comabt on rails...

 

yeh nice one bioware :P

Revolutionary feature here though!

Instead of clicking the "install" button once at the start and having to skip every cinematic afterwards you can also just not click the "install" button and it will automatically skip all the content you don't seem to like!

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by ukforze

Originally posted by gobla

Originally posted by ukforze

good news? it's another wow clone but in space... meh another ruined ip

It's not really news at all.

It's been known for months if not years that SWToR was going to be a more or less standard themepark except for the Star Wars setting and the Bioware storytelling + companions. It's adding something, which many people enjoy a lot, to the existing gameplay.

And wouldn't really call it a ruined IP. From the info we have thus far it's succeeding at what it's trying to do.

instead of hitting the esc key 5 times to skip blabbering quest givers, we have to skip crappy

cinematics this is single player sort of content, plus the space comabt on rails...

 

yeh nice one bioware :P

Revolutionary feature here though!

Instead of clicking the "install" button once at the start and having to skip every cinematic afterwards you can also just not click the "install" button and it will automatically skip all the content you don't seem to like!

so if i just completely skip the swtor.exe install i can skip a multitude of crap in one click :)

...nah joking, we will see anyway, i'll give it a go but not building up my hopes

Many of those who followed this game have known for a while it's not a Sandbox, nor trying to be SWG 2.0; however, this comment of the "who want's to be a moisture farmer anyway" almost makes it seem like TOR will be NGE 2.0.

I remember them trying to justify NGE with this comment, and how it would make the game "more Star Warsy"

I don't think you were alone in reading into a tone, or general feeling by Mr. 'Observer' Georg Zoeller. He deffinatly had a day yesterday filling out many comments, and posting stuff, although this post does drip witha bit of hostle resentment. When were Rocket launcher Jawas ever a topic?  Wait... Rocket Launcher Jawas? ARE THEY A PLAYER CLASS????

Bioware may actually be starting to feel a little pressure, and may start to realize, or it's starting to sink in, or they are starting to let slip a MMO, and a single player RPG are totaly different experiences.

Look at their space combat progression:

1) We hare doing space combat. 2) it's a shooter on rails, but you can choose during the mini-game, points to do A or B, fun right? 3) Shooter on Rails, like Star Fox, you know.. Lego Star Wars had it, that was fun, right? 4) we did say you could choose things on the rails, so it's not a straight rail.. I mean here you can go shoot a capital ships turrets, or skip it.. see choices. and finally...  5) We are exploring additional options for space content, but all will be based on player feedback and testing.

I just hope Bioware focuses on their game, and stop baiting potential players with what their game is not. Or stiring up the embers of hate from 6 years ago. Then again, powerfull the dark side is.

Originally posted by Shodanas

Originally posted by vanderghast

I don't get why he even had to say that.  I thought EVERYONE knew this was star wars on rails by now?

Because although they where very straightforward about what TOR would be since day 1 some SWG dinosaurs still refuse to accept it. They still linger the forums moaning and acting like TOR is their game and demanding it to be as they want it to be. The fact that they are a minority does not seem to bother them at all.

 True they have been on the same page since the start but the disgruntled swgers will never give up.

georg added more:

GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Why player Housing, Sandbox worlds, and player generated content is important...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rikalonius Georg, way to parrot Nancy McIntyre's infamous New York Times eye poke: It was fallacious then, and it's fallacious now. Nobody really wants to play a moisture farmer. People, overwhelming, over dozens of MMO titles simply want a place to call their own where they can build a collection of items that represents their journey through the universe. I'm sure most, like myself, would be happy with just decorating the inside of our ship. Aside from that, I would like to have an instanced apartment where that I can make my own. Many, many players feel this way, it's its just downright insulting to have developers pretend that doesn't exist, or to marginalize it by using a red herring like "moisture farmer."

Hey,

I don't know who Nancy is and she's done, but I think you're reading a bit too much into my statement.

Sure, moisture farmer is an oversimplification used to describe a Life Simulation type game, but we're not arguing that there is no market for this type of content. If that offended you, apologies.

I am just trying to make it clear, without any ambiguity, that since there is already a product on the market that focuses exactly on the described content, that we have chosen to make a different type of game and that we've been quite forward about it from the start.

This is not meant to judge or marginalize the audience that exists for such a type of game. I just want to be as straight forward as possible about this so we don't develop unreasonable expectations regarding the positioning and direction of The Old Republic.

I understand that this might be disappointing for people that were looking for a game similar to another existing game, but again, we're not making a statement about the validity or size of the market that might want that type of game - we're just doing what we've always been doing - make our own game. As we frame it:

Create the first BioWare style MMO - a game with a strong narrative framework, companions and choreographed, fluid combat in the popular 'Old Republic' time frame of the Star Wars universe.

 

GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Why player Housing, Sandbox worlds, and player generated content is important...

And, again:

We're certainly aware that individuality and customization is important to players, regardless of where they fall on the sandbox vs. themepark scale. There is no question about that.

 

GeorgZoeller General Discussion -> Why player Housing, Sandbox worlds, and player generated content is important...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraye And not being able to do anything properly in-game without a companion...a friggin' npc to help you ge through the game is Heroic? Without the NPC companion you are all but a joke in TOR....yup thats real heroic.....sure is :P

Heroes - at least in Star Wars - usually have sidekicks. In fact, it's hard to find many that don't. It's kind of a prerequisite of calling yourself a hero.

WOW, I've followed this game for years and I thought this game was going to be a true sandbox.

THIS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE.

Bioware sucks now!

Were people really still thinking this game was going to be a themepark sandbox like MO or god forbid, SWG? rofl. oh boy.

Tbh this sort of comment  "who want's to be a moisture farmer anyway"  is a little disrepectful

to the IP.

Games need a diversity of class & not just all combat, not everyone wants to pew pew.

thing is most ppl want a "i win button" with cartoon graphics & a glowwy red LS

so this will atract that same immature wow community.

I wouldnt mind playing a bartender or a shopkeeper or a moisture farmer,

I loved the crafting in swg, unique, i loved the player based economy & community

having a deep crafting side gives diversity, it allows you to switch off from the "grind"

& the pwe pew.

This is why i hated wow, it got boring fast, just raids & pvp, thats it... yawn

Originally posted by ukforze

Tbh this sort of comment  "who want's to be a moisture farmer anyway"  is a little disrepectful

to the IP... diversity of class & folk, not everyone wants to pwe pwe with a glowy red LS.

 

I wouldnt mind playing a bartender or a shopkeeper or a moisture farmer,

I loved the crafting in swg, unique, i loved the player based economy & community

having a deep crafting side gives diversity, it allows you to switch off from the "grind"

& the pwe pew.

 

This is why i hated wow, it got boring fast, just raids & pvp, thats it... yawn

Exactly, you are part of that crowd that would never be pleased by anything that isn't a direct replica of SWG.  Why should they try to placate you with words?