To survive, it simply has to be better.

Originally posted by Aquazen

I like Rift, even with all its genericness,  but I personally can't see it surviving unless they:

 

1.  Double the content by early next year (new land masses, alternate dimensions, etc.)

2.  Raise level cap to 70+ by early next year

3.  Add more souls and races by early next year

4.  Create a better PvP experience (open world pvp, objection warfronts, better balance, etc.)

5.  Add way more dungeons, at least doubling them

6.  Have way more meaningful quests (less grindy)

 

Sooner than later would be nice, but when the big boy competition comes, they better be ready or there will be a mass exodus of the game.  What do you Rift fans think?

As much of a Rift fan boi as I have been over the past few months, I have to admit you have a valid point. Like you, I play it more casually. I have a 50 and a 13. Thinking about splitting my time between Rift and some of the other single/multiplayer rpgs coming out like Witcher 2, DS3 and ES4.

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All of t he quests i have done in Rift have been story/area driven. Some of them actually say story to let you know its important and they offer blue items then lead you to the area's dungeon. Alot of the quests also have interactive things that happen when you complete the quests giving you history/lore about what you are doing. Also when you port to an area the loading screen lets you know your progress in that area. I agree that there are fetch quests but I mean that would happen in a normal RPG as well. If you mean cut-scenes then I would agree I would like to see that but its now a deal breaker.

It's not just the story aspect and how it is delivered, although that is one side of it.  It's the complete lack of anything else to do other than grind dungeons/rifts/reputation for gear.  The games I mentioned all had epic quest lines, Alternate Advancement models, housing, mini games, plus the ability to go back to old content on the same character to help lowbies or to see stuff you missed your first time up through the levels. 

Just curios but what all has been added since launch?  I'm not talking about bug fixes or launcher patches, I'm talking content wise.  They've added the new raid with 1.2 and the LFG tool, which the game desperately needed, but still may need tweaking.  (queue times seem to be extraordinarily high on my server)  Patch 1.1 is very debateable if it added anything new to the game.  (we got three dailes and a one day event half the players never saw)  So I'm just curious what the hype is about all the stuff that been added?  Are you calling the increase of frequency of rifts new content?  Are you calling class changes new content?  Its been interesting reading this thread, and a lot of people seem to be echoin the same feelings I'm having.  The game just feels shallow to me.  From the content, to the proffessions, to the pvp, to the design.  There's only maybe four zones that even have trees. lol  It just feels very open, and empty, and barren except that there are mobs every four feet.   

The only playabiltiy tweaks I can offer are more portcullis' for easier travel around the world, reduce the aggro range for low level mobs AND GET RID OF THEIR ABILITY TO DISMOUNT YOU!, and continue to work on improving the interface display.  Thats where I seem to be getting most of the bugs, quest stickies moving, bags dissapearing, etc.

I think Trion's really had a great success with this game, and I like seeing smaller developers succeed.  But I think this game has benefitted greatly from the hype, because its the only game out right now that can fill a void for  the disenfranchised players of the older MMOs.  Think GW2 or TOR won't hurt this game?  Then your really going tosee the pop's go south.

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by Lathander81

I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.

How do you figure?

Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.

If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.

So you took a poll and know this for a fact. What I know for a fact is people GW is f2p and when has the last time a F2p ever challenge a P2P? Not saying it won't happen but its never trended that way and I don't see a reason why it would. Everyone said that about Vindictus but yea. I'm not a fortuneteller but I know people who have multiple MMos that they pay for.

 First off it B2P not F2P, big difference.  They'll make their money through non traditional means and there is a reason why their not doing a P2P model especially since the quality and investment is as good enough for a P2P model.

Second...where's your poll?  Your asking me to back my facts up when you don't have facts yourself.  It's common sense that people won't be paying for a second MMO if one MMO takes up their time or their content with it.  Which Rift has shown it can't do so far.

We're both speculating as is this entire thread.  As to how it will threaten Rift...all the innovation they are promising will challange any MMO.  As to how all this pans out, well by next year we'll find out.

Originally posted by David99

Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.

But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.

Anecdotal evidence isn't a very good supporting argument.

Originally posted by goingwylde

The only playabiltiy tweaks I can offer are more portcullis' for easier travel around the world, reduce the aggro range for low level mobs AND GET RID OF THEIR ABILITY TO DISMOUNT YOU!, and continue to work on improving the interface display.  Thats where I seem to be getting most of the bugs, quest stickies moving, bags dissapearing, etc.

 

These are some of my biggest complaints too, and all should be simple fixes on Trions part.

Originally posted by Blurr

Originally posted by David99

Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.

But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.

Anecdotal evidence isn't a very good supporting argument.

Better than having no evidence at all.

Everyone does realize Rift has only been out 2 months, right? I've been playing MMO's for a long long time, as many have, Im sure. IMO, they had everything they should have had when it was released and are pushing out content at a very decent pace. I dont understand what all the complaining is about. Give it more time, see where it is in a year, if it still isnt where you want it to be, then dont play. If it is, then welcome back :)

As for " Big Boy" competition, all I can say is, meh. I've seen so many supposedly " the next big thing" games come out over the past 6-7 years, and none of them have lived up to what they were supposed too. Ive been one of the many that gets my hopes all up only to be dissapointed. This game however, I'm not dissapointed, for once.

Why does another race matter when there's little distinction between the races?

A negligible + to a resistance or to a stat and out-of-combat abilities does not make the decision of race matter.

I've always been of the mind that any race should be able to be any class (as they can in rift) because then racials that actually matter are still fair. If you want to be a healer with the crit cooldown so you can pop it when you think you need to spike your healing in pvp or pve, you can. If you want to take the extra cd so you can tank marginally better, you can.

I feel like FFXI did it right. There were 5 races. Any race could be any class. (As matter of fact, you could freely switch to each of the 20 classes once you acquired them, having to level each from level 1--it was as simple, as going to your mog-house and hitting Change Jobs...Not so far from being able to change within a calling as rifth does.).

Galka - The supeme tank. Good dps. Most hp, high str, low dex/agi (crit/acc). Terrible healer/caster because of low mana.

Elvaan - Solid dps or tank. Terrible caster, great healer (because of high MND).

Hume - Good at everything, great at nothing, though many hume players were extraordinary players, as were any of any race.

Mithra - About even with hume on stats, more dex/less str, more mnd/less int (I think).

Taru - The supreme caster. High int, good mnd. Great healers. Good dps.  Their naturally high mp assisted them for setups where it was beneficial to sub an mp job to a non mp job. (cor/whm, brd/whm, nin/drk). They could be good tanks but were at a natural disadvantage.

I'd think only a galka or taru would have regretted their choice if they close to main a job that wasn't to the strengths of their classs. The other three could be quite good, played right, at everything.

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Watch and Lath,

Single reply seemed simpler.

Gear fatigue with player repairs makes profs more worthwhile.  If you could include some aesthetic improvements along with stats (which I never really understood, if I hit someone with a baseball bat or a sword of the twelth moon it still hurts) it could improve player interraction. 

As for end game grind, yes, if you like something it is not a problem, I think a lot of ppl dislike it though.  Each to their own (obviously I dislike it)

I agree that the combat animations are less than stellar (got spoiled with Aion) but I do enjoy a challenge. Also I don't think a game needs 100% retention to survive. A core group players and new people coming in is all you need.

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

The producers of the game chose to make a "me too" game..despite voluminous "tester" input.Now they are paying the price. They have chosen to "listen" only to input that is consistent with their vision of the game. Now they can live with it.

Indeed.   They are also only listening to a certain type of player and nerfing the game, adding new features and screwing over what community there is with the gm / support.

Rift isnt going to survive in any meaningful sense after the 12 month mark.

Originally posted by Clywd

Originally posted by Hellfyre420

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All those games are undersalers.. You can't blame Trion for trying to mimic WoW's end game when it's obviously a route that "works".. I can't really comment on WoW or Rifts end game as i never made it to either, i will make it to Rifts in about 7 more lvls :) I guess since i havn't played WoW a whole lot i have a better chance of enjoying Rifts end game as it all feels so fresh and new to me..

 

I will agree FFXI has had some of the best end game to date.

What would be an acceptable number of sales for a western game then, when guild wars and eq2 ar undersalers? WoW is the exception, not the rule.

Back on topic, it is quite obvious that Rifts endgame is a copy of wow's endgame, it looks better, plays smoother - and yet it misses something essential: socialization. I found an interesting article about structure and content: http://rupturadraconis.de/gilde/index.php?articles-show-28

While Rift provides a great structure (i.e. the game itself), they failed to deliver in the content part (i.e. the interaction of players). Scott Hartsman himself said in a podcast, that they wanted to provide the game, while the players need to bring the community. Now we know, that this is another way to fail: the game needs to develop community, too. Unlike wow that is mostly played by casuals who try mmo's the first time and hardcore who stick with their raiding guild since years, rift is mostly played by experienced gamers - they don't expect handholding and solo play, they want to jump in a group and start fighting together something challenging.

This leaves the question open, what can rift do to survive? First Trion needs to understand what the people here wrote, they need to understand that they need to create a community, that they need to enforce player interaction. They could create a zone that is permanently swarmed by invasions of all six realms, and put some boss group encounters in the area.

This would be challenging, dynamic, player-interactive content.

To improve longevity of the game they also need to add something like alternative advancement. Loot alone is quite boring.

To improve the leveling experience they need to reduce the number of xp given by quests, and slowing down the leveling speed a lot. But I guess it is too late for that.

indeed.   IMO WOW grew when we had little GM input and new content was a long way off.   The less emphasis a gaming company places on policing a game, the more players are forced to come up with their own solutions too and this builds community.

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by Blurr

I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.

Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.

There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.

I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.

Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.

But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.

AOC and WAR are still up running and adding content. What did you mena by this?

Originally posted by Thunderballs

Originally posted by Clywd

Originally posted by Hellfyre420

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All those games are undersalers.. You can't blame Trion for trying to mimic WoW's end game when it's obviously a route that "works".. I can't really comment on WoW or Rifts end game as i never made it to either, i will make it to Rifts in about 7 more lvls :) I guess since i havn't played WoW a whole lot i have a better chance of enjoying Rifts end game as it all feels so fresh and new to me..

 

I will agree FFXI has had some of the best end game to date.

What would be an acceptable number of sales for a western game then, when guild wars and eq2 ar undersalers? WoW is the exception, not the rule.

Back on topic, it is quite obvious that Rifts endgame is a copy of wow's endgame, it looks better, plays smoother - and yet it misses something essential: socialization. I found an interesting article about structure and content: http://rupturadraconis.de/gilde/index.php?articles-show-28

While Rift provides a great structure (i.e. the game itself), they failed to deliver in the content part (i.e. the interaction of players). Scott Hartsman himself said in a podcast, that they wanted to provide the game, while the players need to bring the community. Now we know, that this is another way to fail: the game needs to develop community, too. Unlike wow that is mostly played by casuals who try mmo's the first time and hardcore who stick with their raiding guild since years, rift is mostly played by experienced gamers - they don't expect handholding and solo play, they want to jump in a group and start fighting together something challenging.

This leaves the question open, what can rift do to survive? First Trion needs to understand what the people here wrote, they need to understand that they need to create a community, that they need to enforce player interaction. They could create a zone that is permanently swarmed by invasions of all six realms, and put some boss group encounters in the area.

This would be challenging, dynamic, player-interactive content.

To improve longevity of the game they also need to add something like alternative advancement. Loot alone is quite boring.

To improve the leveling experience they need to reduce the number of xp given by quests, and slowing down the leveling speed a lot. But I guess it is too late for that.

indeed.   IMO WOW grew when we had little GM input and new content was a long way off.   The less emphasis a gaming company places on policing a game, the more players are forced to come up with their own solutions too and this builds community.

Thank goodness someone else see this! The biggest enemies of MMO's is the players!

Originally posted by Thunderballs

Originally posted by Shadanwolf

The producers of the game chose to make a "me too" game..despite voluminous "tester" input.Now they are paying the price. They have chosen to "listen" only to input that is consistent with their vision of the game. Now they can live with it.

Indeed.   They are also only listening to a certain type of player and nerfing the game, adding new features and screwing over what community there is with the gm / support.

 

Rift isnt going to survive in any meaningful sense after the 12 month mark.

Wow you gleaned all that from 2 months?

Don't waste your time in getting your opinion heard in this thread guys. We will just have to wait for GW2 and SWTOR launch and see how well Rifts will do. I bet they will have the same numbers of servers with medium and high population going strong. :)

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by David99
 

AOC and WAR are still up running and adding content. What did you mena by this?

Struggling................that's what it meant

They are doing good enough to avoid being closed, but they are a huge disappointment in terms of pre-release expectations

Rift will end up exactly like WAR and AoC, I said that before its release after playing beta.

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by David99
 

AOC and WAR are still up running and adding content. What did you mena by this?

Struggling................that's what it meant

They are doing good enough to avoid being closed, but they are a huge disappointment in terms of pre-release expectations

Rift will end up exactly like WAR and AoC, I said that before its release after playing beta.

So you based the games failure on the beta? Why was that?

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by David99
 

AOC and WAR are still up running and adding content. What did you mena by this?

Struggling................that's what it meant

They are doing good enough to avoid being closed, but they are a huge disappointment in terms of pre-release expectations

Rift will end up exactly like WAR and AoC, I said that before its release after playing beta.

So you based the games failure on the beta? Why was that?

I actually enjoyed beta for the most part, the endgame isn't really my cup of tea anymore and the pvp is BAD, but the thing that killed it for me was the lack of players - that and 80% of my guild quitting a week or two after reaching 50. Waiting hours for a WF to pop, and spending the majority of my time trying to put together a raid group is not my idea of fun.

Not a huge loss though, it wasn't anything I haven't done before.