^it's a means to an end

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Watchawawawa

Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.

I completely agree with you on world PVP for territory.  But that has its own issues.  Namely class balance.

Politics would be very interesting and I myself can't stand the rep grind that Rift has implemented and would love to see a new system on that front.

Player Economies?  Not sure what you mean on that one.

It would be secondary to the other two, but meaningful profs.  with some gear fatigue and player repairs for example.

Originally posted by thebigchin11

It would be secondary to the other two, but meaningful profs.  with some gear fatigue and player repairs for example.

On the official forums someone brought up a workorder board in the suggestion thread.  Basically people could request items to be made and orders could be reserved and filled by crafters.

I really thought it was a neat idea.  Is that the type of stuff you're talking about?

Originally posted by thebigchin11

Watchawawawa

Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.

Games have tried pvp for terriory (WAR), not sure what you mean by economics since endgame you wouldn't need to buy anything. I define endgame as being at a level where you can take on challenges no one else can. Its only fair that you be rewarded with loots. Its now a grind if you have fun doing it and it also doesn't make it not meaningful just because you don't like it. Acheivment, teamwork, and reward is are staples of endgame and it always will. Beside the things you describe are for a PVP based game which Rift is not.

Originally posted by Aquazen

What does Rift have to do to Survive?

Didn't know the game was dying. I might have missed the note...

Maybe you wanted to say: what would keep this game as one of the major MMO with GW2 and TOR going live in the next year?

First let's start with some basics. Trion is fixing and improving the game faster than any other MMO studio out there. As Blizzard and a few other they are using Agile methodology. However it seems they went an extra step applying it to releases and roll out game fixes and major patches faster than we ever saw. Someday it might fire back with a huge down time, still it's refreshing to see their take on that matter. It's fine you don't like the unplanned day/night reboot but you'll get used to it, don't worry.

Then, don't forget while the game is still very young the core is really, and I mark my words, really well done. There are many MMO studio out there (and developers) that would sell their soul (or close) to trade their game for this one.

Now of all the 6 entries mentioned we can say there's nothing really specific to Rift. In fact, mostly any MMO out there would benefits from them. But maybe raising the level cap as not everyone is fond of seeing all their items grind going to the rubbish when the level cap is raised.

About being bored by the game with the lack of content, can I say that while Wow has much more content than this game, due to its age, most players are bored to regring the exact same content again and again. I hear colleagues playing Wow and never hear them saying how cool is that instance or new content. Their conversations is more about: I'm working on that [insert instance/faction name] to complete my [insert set name]. The other thing you're going to hear is that people invested so much time in Wow that they don't see themselves moving to a new MMO, whatever awesome sauce it is. (BTW Blizzard knows that pretty well)

What I see is Rift is doing pretty well for a new MMO. It did lost thousand of subs after launch, but that's nothing new in the post Wow era. People are consuming new MMO like fast food and when they are finished they get back to their drug: read WoW.

If you read between the lines you'll see that contrary to what happened with any other AAA MMO like AoC and War, Blizzard noticed the newcomer and the bronthosaurus started moving. They are going to more often smaller content updates.

The only success recipe I have for the game is keep doing like you actually do: listening to the player base, communicating with them and adding & polishing content. For the next 12 months I expect Trion delivering more content and adding more system game play in their MMO than any other MMO has done before. Will that be enought for you? I doubt it. But I'm going on a limb and say that it will for many players and the player base will keep growing steadily from now.

I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.

Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.

There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.

I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.

Watch and Lath,

Single reply seemed simpler.

Gear fatigue with player repairs makes profs more worthwhile.  If you could include some aesthetic improvements along with stats (which I never really understood, if I hit someone with a baseball bat or a sword of the twelth moon it still hurts) it could improve player interraction. 

As for end game grind, yes, if you like something it is not a problem, I think a lot of ppl dislike it though.  Each to their own (obviously I dislike it)

Originally posted by Lathander81

I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.

How do you figure?

Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.

If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.

Originally posted by Blurr

I hate to burst your bubble, but thinking Rift won't "survive" is poor reasoning.

Considering the server populations are always at Medium or High during normal hours, the population seems to be staying pretty solid.

There are plenty of games which have fallen out of vogue a long time ago which are still surviving. Everquest One was a great game but it's population has eroded from what it once was by far, yet it still survives. Vanguard was considered by many the worst mmo launch in history, and it's still going.

I contend that if you don't think Rift will "survive", you don't know the genre as well as you think you do.

Medium or high tags mean nothing. I was on a medium server and there was nobody around... during peak times there was like 6 level 50's in total on my side, and 9 on the other. Medium pop? Hardly, more like dead.

But yeah, rift will survive... just like AOC, WAR and VG 'survived'.

Agree with David99, medium labels mean nothing when you make the threshold ludicrously low. 

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by Lathander81

I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.

How do you figure?

Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.

If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.

So you took a poll and know this for a fact. What I know for a fact is people GW is f2p and when has the last time a F2p ever challenge a P2P? Not saying it won't happen but its never trended that way and I don't see a reason why it would. Everyone said that about Vindictus but yea. I'm not a fortuneteller but I know people who have multiple MMos that they pay for.

GW1 was the last time from memmory

Simple: Add a few new races and new starting areas to go with them! And the ability to go into the rifts themselves!!

These two things would be awesome if implemented right!

Originally posted by Wrender

Simple: Add a few new races and new starting areas to go with them! And the ability to go into the rifts themselves!!

These two things would be awesome if implemented right!

They've said the ability to go into Rifts is on the to do list.

And I don't think it needs ot do anything different to survive. They've added a lot just 2 months after launch, and they fix things quick. People have just been pushing through the content quickly and get bored instead of playing a little more moderately.  And even if they only have 100k subscribers, compared to everything but WoW they are doing ok, and I am 99% sure they have a good deal more than 100k subscribers.

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by David99

Originally posted by Lathander81

no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play

How do you figure?

Most people only have time for one MMO, and i'll be dropping my sub for whatever MMO I'm playing when GW2 drops.

If GW2 provide a lot of content and entertainment value of course it will take subs away from existing MMO's, F2P has nothing to do with - people wont keep subing to their previous MMO just because 'they can'.

So you took a poll and know this for a fact.

You first mate. (see bit in red).

I'm simply relying on logic. Most people only have time for one AAA MMO (there's plenty of polls supporting this - see google) - and the fact that everyone I know (including my entire guild) will be dropping their current MMO sub to check out GW2 supports this too.

Now feel free to backup your original claim.

Absolutely Wrender. I'd also add another faction.

Quite simply Rift is not all that interesting and has little longevity.  If you like it fair play, but the point is that subs have been falling and are likely to fall massively in the face of GW2 or SWTOR. 

They need to pray that TOR and GW2 fail hard.

Originally posted by SaintViktor

They need to pray that TOR and GW2 fail hard.

 GW2 would help due to the combination of quality F2P and fantasy game.

TOR isn't so much of a challenge as RIFT players might not be fond of SiFi setting nor slow speech based game play and cartoonish graphics.