Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All those games are undersalers.. You can't blame Trion for trying to mimic WoW's end game when it's obviously a route that "works".. I can't really comment on WoW or Rifts end game as i never made it to either, i will make it to Rifts in about 7 more lvls :) I guess since i havn't played WoW a whole lot i have a better chance of enjoying Rifts end game as it all feels so fresh and new to me..

I will agree FFXI has had some of the best end game to date.

Originally posted by Hellfyre420

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All those games are undersalers.. You can't blame Trion for trying to mimic WoW's end game when it's obviously a route that "works".. I can't really comment on WoW or Rifts end game as i never made it to either, i will make it to Rifts in about 7 more lvls :) I guess since i havn't played WoW a whole lot i have a better chance of enjoying Rifts end game as it all feels so fresh and new to me..

 

I will agree FFXI has had some of the best end game to date.

What would be an acceptable number of sales for a western game then, when guild wars and eq2 ar undersalers? WoW is the exception, not the rule.

Back on topic, it is quite obvious that Rifts endgame is a copy of wow's endgame, it looks better, plays smoother - and yet it misses something essential: socialization. I found an interesting article about structure and content: http://rupturadraconis.de/gilde/index.php?articles-show-28

While Rift provides a great structure (i.e. the game itself), they failed to deliver in the content part (i.e. the interaction of players). Scott Hartsman himself said in a podcast, that they wanted to provide the game, while the players need to bring the community. Now we know, that this is another way to fail: the game needs to develop community, too. Unlike wow that is mostly played by casuals who try mmo's the first time and hardcore who stick with their raiding guild since years, rift is mostly played by experienced gamers - they don't expect handholding and solo play, they want to jump in a group and start fighting together something challenging.

This leaves the question open, what can rift do to survive? First Trion needs to understand what the people here wrote, they need to understand that they need to create a community, that they need to enforce player interaction. They could create a zone that is permanently swarmed by invasions of all six realms, and put some boss group encounters in the area.

This would be challenging, dynamic, player-interactive content.

To improve longevity of the game they also need to add something like alternative advancement. Loot alone is quite boring.

To improve the leveling experience they need to reduce the number of xp given by quests, and slowing down the leveling speed a lot. But I guess it is too late for that.

The game is only a couple months old. What they are doing is fine. A year from now we will see the fruits of FIRST laying the groundwork for a great game to be built on. The reason why most mmo's have failed after launch in the past few years has been the developers didnt lay the foundation first in which to build from. Trion did. Rift is just fine. When this game has years of updates and fixes and content added this will be still be a strong selling, content rich and community driven game.

I dont agree with the title really. What must Rift do to survive?

It makes believe that the game is dieing wich isnt the case really. The game managed to maintain a very decent playerbase, it still does, and with the patch 1.2 it actually got a bit revitalized again.

Now, I must agree that the endgame does get a bit boring after a while, especially for other players, like myself, that came from WoW, wich had a similar endgame system.

Theres no doubt that Trion must work, and fast, to bring more content to the game sooner than later, and I dont mean only endgame, we need more leveling zones, more leveling dungeons, a slower leveling rate, and very very important, new starting areas... this is very important. And offcourse some different endgame objectives like we already read here.

I agree that Trion laid a very decent foundation but there is no time to relax, and patch 1.2 while bringing the new LFD tool, did not add new content. So let's see what 1.3 is bringing next month...

I was honestly amazed by Rift at first, the game was incredibly polished and I had high hopes for the leveling experience....

Which was a complete joke, and along the way it became more and more obvious how shallow the game is, it's just way too familiar, heck I had more fun during the AoC first month than in Rift.

My issue with Rift is, it could have been an expansion in WoW, that's how small the difference is to me, sure you can mix classes and there are Rift's up, both of which I'm sure Blizzard could easily throw into an expansion.

The whole d&d setting in mmo's is overused, we really need some QUALITY mmo's that is built around a different genre, atm we've only got 1 promising on the way (swtor), I don't expect anything from the secret world, other than a complete disaster launch for the 3rd time ;-)

Originally posted by blueturtle13

The game is only a couple months old. What they are doing is fine. A year from now we will see the fruits of FIRST laying the groundwork for a great game to be built on. The reason why most mmo's have failed after launch in the past few years has been the developers didnt lay the foundation first in which to build from. Trion did. Rift is just fine. When this game has years of updates and fixes and content added this will be still be a strong selling, content rich and community driven game.

 Are they doing fine?  The thing is though that you should keep in mind that the typical Rift player left WoW for something different which Rift falls short on.  With some of the highly hyped MMOs coming out this year and early next year I think Rift is very much so not doing fine.  Sure you have players now but that might be largely due to they just are too tired of WoW, AoC, or what other MMO is out there and just killing time while waiting for an MMO release.  If there is already a lot of discussion which is evident here and on various other websites to include their official forum of boredom, what needs to be fixed to save Rift, lack of content, talk of server merges then the state of the game is very poor and will only worsen in the future if Trion doesn't hurry up and do something to hold hteir customers to the game.

Other MMOs had that foundation, take AoC for example...awesome foundation with a lot of intresting concepts.

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

Originally posted by elocke

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by aesperus

Honestly, this game just needs more engaging content. Even at end game the game gets horribly repetative. Nearly everyone Qs for Battle of Port Scion, or runs tier dungeons (which are identical to the normal dungeons, just with the monsters made harder).

Short-term, they could try merging servers, but the pops aren't hurting too much on the whole. I don't see many servers with 'low' populations, and the few that do get that low usually don't stay there for long. Merging servers, may have the effect of just adding Q times to a few of the more popular servers, and thus turning more players away, instead of keeping the ones they have. It's a tricky boat to be in, but as was mentioned earlier, Rift propably won't be going anywhere for a while. If they added more engaging content, I think the players that have left would return fairly quickly, as Rift doesn't really have any competition atm. There just aren't that many good MMOs with a healthy player base atm. However, with SWToR and GW2 around the corner, that is likely to change.

What do you mean by more engaging content? Also what an example of a current game that has more enganging content than RIft? I thought that the invasion system was pretty engaging or the new sliver system or the events they have were.

I can name a few games with engaging endgame content.  Mostly due to their having an alternate advancement system or story driven content.  EQ2, FFXI, Guild Wars.  I'm sure there are a few others, but these are the ones at the top of my head that go beyond the tired reputation/dungeon grind of current MMO endgame.

All of t he quests i have done in Rift have been story/area driven. Some of them actually say story to let you know its important and they offer blue items then lead you to the area's dungeon. Alot of the quests also have interactive things that happen when you complete the quests giving you history/lore about what you are doing. Also when you port to an area the loading screen lets you know your progress in that area. I agree that there are fetch quests but I mean that would happen in a normal RPG as well. If you mean cut-scenes then I would agree I would like to see that but its now a deal breaker.

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?

Rift is doing OK.  They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention.  there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it.  They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active.  The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too.  Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.

However the endgame is a huge issue.  It needs to not be WoW.  At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.

They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them.  especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?

 

Rift is doing OK.  They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention.  there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it.  They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active.  The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too.  Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.

 

However the endgame is a huge issue.  It needs to not be WoW.  At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.

 

They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them.  especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?

 

Rift is doing OK.  They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention.  there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it.  They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active.  The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too.  Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.

 

However the endgame is a huge issue.  It needs to not be WoW.  At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.

 

They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them.  especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

 Ooooo.....so just because WoW lost subs your automatically assuming that people went to Rift?  Not htat they took an MMO break or playing GW now for HoM goodies or EVE or WAR or DDO or AoC or a number of other reasons?

People don't get bored to end game really and many will see what end game is like which entails purchasing the game, so I don't see any validity in this arguement.

Also depends on how you view fine, if Rift is already having issues with population, end-game content, crafting, lvling at this soon after release then I don't see that as "fine" considering what the competition will be by the end of the year.

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by watchawatcha

Originally posted by darlok6666

 

 Are they doing fine? 

 YES

WoW lost 600,000 subs end of March.

WoW is now going to a smaller content more frequent model.

WoW is stealing things from Rift now for a change.

Rift is doing fine.

Oh and 1.2 is looking to be a massive success.

And already got my mount from the random keys I gave away on another website.

So that means because of me at least 3 players bought the game and I get a cool mount.

Wonder how many others are getting that loot too?

Haha how is 1.2 a massive success?

 

Rift is doing OK.  They had more people buy the game than expected, but probably a lower retention.  there are also a lot of people who bought 6 month plans and regret it.  They may be active subscribers but they arent actually active.  The SoE downtime is probably helping Rift a bit too.  Overall Im sure Trion is happy with the results so far.

 

However the endgame is a huge issue.  It needs to not be WoW.  At least half of Rift's playerbase are former WoW players, but Rift's endgame is exremely similar to WoW's, and the stale endgame is why people left WoW anyway.

 

They will do fine over the summer and into the fall, but yes, they need to change or else GW2 and SW:TOR will crush them.  especially since SW:TOR actually looks a lot deeper than it was first thought to be.

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

I agree no game out right now will lose permenate buisness to GW2 because it free to play. But with TOR who really knows? I think there is room for all of them.

 Really?  Various people on youtube, GW Forums, guild forums will wanna chat with ya.  If GW2 is providing enough entertainment no one is gonna waste 15 bucks on an MMO that they never play.

Originally posted by watchawatcha

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

Change to a more meaningful endgame.   It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by watchawatcha

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

Change to a more meaningful endgame.   It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.

WoW has 11 million + subs based just on that.  So whether you like it or not, it seems to be a popular formula that has worked for MMOs for many years.  Progression Guilds are huge.  While I would like to see more endgame content that had meaning to it, no MMO will be able to accomplish this.  Not GW2.  Not SWTOR.

What exactly would be meaningful endgame for you?

 Really?  Various people on youtube, GW Forums, guild forums will wanna chat with ya.  If GW2 is providing enough entertainment no one is gonna waste 15 bucks on an MMO that they never play.

There's a market for people that don't want to/can't spend 15 bucks on a sub game.  GW2 will definitely appeal to those people.

People whom are already spending money on a sub game, generally don't have a problem with it.

Those people will buy GW2 and try it out and will go to another game (if/when) they get bored.

For those people they won't be wasting their 15 bucks.

 Ooooo.....so just because WoW lost subs your automatically assuming that people went to Rift?  Not htat they took an MMO break or playing GW now for HoM goodies or EVE or WAR or DDO or AoC or a number of other reasons?

 

People don't get bored to end game really and many will see what end game is like which entails purchasing the game, so I don't see any validity in this arguement.

Also depends on how you view fine, if Rift is already having issues with population, end-game content, crafting, lvling at this soon after release then I don't see that as "fine" considering what the competition will be by the end of the year.

[Mod Edit]

http://massively.joystiq.com/2011/05/10/activision-blizzard-rift-players-will-come-back-to-wow/

And what's going to be the competition at the end of the year?

GW2 and SWTOR is slated for early 2012 at the earliest.  SWTOR 'might' come out at the end of this year - but that's unknown right now.

Watchawawawa

Meaningful endgame, I think could mean a lot of things without the gear grind, politics would work well, or world pvp for territory, or simple player economies.

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by watchawatcha

 Change to what exactly?  And SWTOR and GW2 are not out yet.  I wouldn't count your chickens just yet.

Change to a more meaningful endgame.   It needs to be more than a geargrind based on daily repetition of content.

Why do people always say that? The gear in Rift is an ends to a means...you need the better gear to be able to handle the challenges of endgame. The fun is the actual grouping and taking on challenges. This should promote comradery, friendships and accplishment. If you look at it as a geargrind your doing something wrong after all endgame is what you make of it.