hard drives? os? optical drives?

I forgot those. XD I don't need an OS or Monitor. I'm good to go with those. I dropped down the 965 to the 955, and found a green case for $20 cheaper.

$760.

That should be a functional build, but there are quite a few tweaks that I'd make.

For the hard drive, try this instead:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136533

Compared to what you picked, it's the same price, same capacity, same brand, and same product line, but one generation newer.  Other than SATA 3 support (which doesn't matter) and doubling the cache, I'm not sure what Western Digital has put into the newer generation of hard drives.  It likely moved from three platters to two, though.

-----

I'd grab a more modern motherboard.  Something like this should work nicely for you:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128443

It comes in a combo deal with the processor, too:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.644858

Another interesting option if you want a processor upgrade path in the future is this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128490

That's Micro ATX, so it's small.  But it's also Socket AM3+, so it will support AMD's upcoming Zambezi processors.  If you're certain that you're not going to upgrade the processor in the future, then I wouldn't get it.

-----

You should get a SATA optical drive, rather than a legacy IDE one.  SATA is the modern standard.  You'd also rather not have a huge IDE cable floating around in your case and obstructing everything.  Try this, for example:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106289

-----

That video card is overpriced to the point of being ridiculous.  You could get a little better performance for a lot cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125318

Or you could get a lot better performance for only a little more money:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814150523

Or if you prefer Nvidia, you could get nearly the same card with an internal exhaust cooler rather than external exhaust for a lot cheaper:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130571

-----

That's not a bad power supply, really.  But time has largely passed it by, as it launched way back in 2007 and has likely been discontinued by now, or will be soon if it isn't already.

You could grab something more modern:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371044

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817207007

Or if you like Corsair, try this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139020

Corsair is positioning that as the replacement for what you picked.  It's a much better power supply, and cheaper, too.

Originally posted by Quizzical
/snip

Quizzical you are awesome. :D Here's the updated build.

Also, can you mix and match RAM? Say in my computer I have :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231189&cm_re=g.skill-_-20-231-189-_-Product

can I add:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231314

Without having any problems?

You can mix memory modules, but it will have to run at the worst specs of any of the modules.  If you have two modules that are 1333 MHz and two that are 1600 MHz, for example, then you can run it all at 1333 MHz, but not at 1600 MHz.   Likewise, you need the to use the worst (highest) latency timings and the worst (highest) voltage.

You also shouldn't mix modules of different capacities.  The same bandwidth is available to each module that you use, provided that you use either two paired properly or four.  If you have one 2 GB modules and one 4 GB module, for example, then you're trying to cram 2/3 of the memory into 1/2 of the bandwidth.  This is kind of like having two lanes of a highway going in the same direction, and insisting that 2/3 of the cars have to use the same lane.  If there isn't much traffic that day, it may not matter, but if there is a lot of traffic, it's an unnecessary traffic jam.

Note that a Phenom II memory controller only supports memory speeds up to 1333 MHz.  Even if you buy 1600 MHz memory, you should still run it at 1333 MHz.  Running it at 1600 MHz won't help your performance enough to matter, anyway.

I personally wouldn't get that case, though I'm hesitant to say "don't buy it".  Raidmax power supplies are pretty bad.  Maybe their case division is a lot better than their power supply division or maybe not.  How high of quality products two different divisions in the same tech company will put out tends to be correlated, but it's far from perfect.  For example, Intel makes some great processors, but shockingly awful graphics.

If you love the looks of that case, then go ahead and get it.  If you picked it kind of randomly, then a few alternatives that I'd suggest:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129073

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

-----

This would put you over budget a bit, but you might want to consider a solid state drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441

With the promo code, that's $115 for 60 GB of usable capacity.  That uses a Marvell controller, and offers excellent read speeds, pretty good random write speeds, and mediocre sequential write speeds.  That last one will only matter when you're installing large programs.

A couple other possibilities if you want to spend the rest of your budget.  One is the Radeon HD 6950 that I linked above, which is quite a bit faster than a GeForce GTX 460.  Another would be to jump to an Intel Sandy Bridge platform, with a Core i5 2500 processor and a P67 chipset motheboard.  By the time you add an aftermarket cooler, that would put you well over budget, though.  There's also the option to simply not spend your entire budget.

Originally posted by Zolgar

Originally posted by Quizzical
/snip

Quizzical you are awesome. :D Here's the updated build.

 

LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM Item #: N82E16827106289 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options)		$21.99
		RAIDMAX SMILODON Extreme Black ATX-612WEB 1.0mm SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Foldout MB Computer Case Item #: N82E16811156078 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$10.00 Instant	$89.99 $79.99
		Item #: N82E16822136533 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$89.99
		EVGA 01G-P3-1372-TR GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) Superclocked 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Support Video ... Item #: N82E16814130571 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options)	-$15.00 Instant	$184.99 $169.99
		CORSAIR Enthusiast Series TX650 V2 650W ATX12V v2.31/ EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Active PFC High Performance Power ... Item #: N82E16817139020 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$30.00 Instant	$119.99 $89.99
		G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL Item #: N82E16820231277 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy	-$10.00 Instant	$49.99 $39.99
		AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz Socket AM3 125W Quad-Core Processor HDZ955FBGMBOX Item #: N82E16819103808 Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy Protect Your Investment (expand for options)     GIGABYTE GA-870A-UD3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard

$704.

Try this build, much faster better performance for the money. I went to a 5830 as it's faster then the GTX460 in a lot of benchmarks plus it overclocks like crazy and is very very cool runing. ATI offers best price to performance right now. Plus ATI is alot better on the drivers then nvidia right now.

Then I took your case and did one my favorite builder cases that also has free shipping, cases are all about preference but they do not make your computer faster. Green lights will not make it faster and besides every LED case I had one or more lights has burnt out or stopped working over time. A case side window is also not going make it faster, it's just for looks and that whole thing died long time ago with me, was cool to have side windows but I don't look inside and admire the PC cause of it. Also some cases with LED's are to bright and over power a room, looks silly.

You can add your own led lights to this case cheaply.

EDIT: That hard drive you have sucks had 3 them, the 1TB is huge platter design, going 500GB is better performance little faster and who is going use all 1TB up? Unless your a video collector or something, that 500GB drive is a good amount space and give your system a hella performance boost because your saving money and puting it to other parts that makes for a better system then your AMD system.

 

 

 

Qty.	Product Description	Savings	Total Price
1	LITE-ON CD/DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model iHAS124-04 - OEM Item #: N82E16827106289 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$21.99
1	Rosewill CHALLENGER Black Gaming ATX Mid Tower Computer Case, comes with Three Fans-1x Front Blue LED 120mm Fan, 1x Top 140mm ... Item #: N82E16811147153 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$5.00 Instant	$59.99 $54.99
1	Western Digital Caviar Black WD5002AALX 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Item #: N82E16822136795 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy Item #: N82E16822136795 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$59.99
1	SAPPHIRE 100297L Radeon HD 5830 1GB 256-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card w/ ATI Eyefinity ... Item #: N82E16814102878 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy		$109.99
1	CORSAIR Enthusiast Series CMPSU-650TX 650W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC Compatible ... Item #: N82E16817139005 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$30.00 Instant	$119.99 $89.99
1	G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL Item #: N82E16820231277 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy	-$10.00 Instant	$49.99 $39.99
1	GIGABYTE GA-P67A-UD3-B3 LGA 1155 Intel P67 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard Item #: N82E16813128476 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$5.00 Instant	$134.99 $129.99
1	Intel Core i5-2500K Sandy Bridge 3.3GHz (3.7GHz Turbo Boost) LGA 1155 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80623I52500K Item #: N82E16819115072 Return Policy: CPU Replacement Only Return Policy		$224.99
Subtotal:			$731.92

A Radeon HD 5830 does not outperform a GeForce GTX 460.  It's not that much worse than a GTX 460, but on average, it's certianly not better.  While AMD does have a better architecture than Nvidia right now, the crippled chip parts (basically, the Radeon HD 5830 and 6790) are an exception, and really no better than what Nvidia has to offer in performance per watt and performance per mm^2.  Of course, one could argue that the latter is irrelevant for the crippled chip bins, as the alternative is throwing the die in the garbage entirely.

Now, if you're not going to do rebates, then it is a compelling value at $110.  But if you're comparing after rebate prices, then it's not really any better than several alternatives.

Your build doesn't say what hard drive it is at all.

The Rosewill case isn't bad, but house brand parts do tend to be cheaper for a reason.

Don't get the older Corsair TX series power supply.  Not when you can get the much better TX V2 series for the same price before rebate, and cheaper after rebate.

I'm not sure what you're doing with the processor/motherboard pairing there.  You're paying extra for the overclocking capabilities of a K series processor, and then pairing that with a motherboard that can't take that big of an overclock, and a stock cooler with which you shouldn't do any overclocking at all.

I can vouch for the Rosewill case. I just built a new one a month or so back and used that case and it's pretty nice actually. Good bang for the buck, nice and solid, good cooling etc....

Originally posted by Quizzical

I personally wouldn't get that case, though I'm hesitant to say "don't buy it".  Raidmax power supplies are pretty bad.  Maybe their case division is a lot better than their power supply division or maybe not.  How high of quality products two different divisions in the same tech company will put out tends to be correlated, but it's far from perfect.  For example, Intel makes some great processors, but shockingly awful graphics.

If you love the looks of that case, then go ahead and get it.  If you picked it kind of randomly, then a few alternatives that I'd suggest:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119196

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129073

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129066

-----

This would put you over budget a bit, but you might want to consider a solid state drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148441

With the promo code, that's $115 for 60 GB of usable capacity.  That uses a Marvell controller, and offers excellent read speeds, pretty good random write speeds, and mediocre sequential write speeds.  That last one will only matter when you're installing large programs.

Well this build is for my younger brother who is just now getting into PC gaming and he wants a green case. I figure the worst that happens is it gets here and it's junk and I have to RMA it. I could care less what it looks like, but it's his money and it's what he wants.

That SSD though I'm thinking of getting for myself. How does that work? Do I just reformat my HDD, reinstall my OS on the SSD, then copy over what games I play onto it?

Also, what are some decent case fans? I was looking at These but the blue LED is bit too flashy for me. I'm sure it'll look nice and all, but I use a Cooler Master CM690 and it doesn't have any clear sides or whatever.

Originally posted by Quizzical

A Radeon HD 5830 does not outperform a GeForce GTX 460.  It's not that much worse than a GTX 460, but on average, it's certianly not better.  While AMD does have a better architecture than Nvidia right now, the crippled chip parts (basically, the Radeon HD 5830 and 6790) are an exception, and really no better than what Nvidia has to offer in performance per watt and performance per mm^2.  Of course, one could argue that the latter is irrelevant for the crippled chip bins, as the alternative is throwing the die in the garbage entirely.

Now, if you're not going to do rebates, then it is a compelling value at $110.  But if you're comparing after rebate prices, then it's not really any better than several alternatives.

Your build doesn't say what hard drive it is at all.

The Rosewill case isn't bad, but house brand parts do tend to be cheaper for a reason.

Don't get the older Corsair TX series power supply.  Not when you can get the much better TX V2 series for the same price before rebate, and cheaper after rebate.

I'm not sure what you're doing with the processor/motherboard pairing there.  You're paying extra for the overclocking capabilities of a K series processor, and then pairing that with a motherboard that can't take that big of an overclock, and a stock cooler with which you shouldn't do any overclocking at all.

On average of 400 3D Mark 11 score more then a GTX460 and every benchmark I seen puts the 5830 ahead slightly, I do not know where you see it doesn't outperform it, a slight out performance is still nonetheless outperforming. This price was final no rebate of $109 for the same and mostly better performance then the $60 more GTX460.

That case is one the best build cases I ever used, it's easy and quality of construction, no clue what you mean. Cheap necessarily doesn't mean bad.

The V1 of the 650TX has no issues that I read about vs the new updated V2 which is giving problems because they changes some solid capacitors inside and included certification of Bronze with it. The PS are basically exactly the same, I rather stick to the V1 over V2 from reading what the V2 has been failing.

You have no idea what your talking about with that mobo and k series i5 I chose. The motherboard can take the i5 to 4.5GHZ and up to 4.8 no problem, weak overclocking? I have this board in my brothers PC I built him with an i5 OC to 4.3 on air no mods necessary the board is solid and performance is amazing out of it for the price. What are you speculating this on, certainly not fact. Read some reviews on it maybe some real OC numbers others are getting back as well who have it, read some feedback off newegg or tiger direct or something. Stock cooler with arctic silver put his cpu at near 50c full loads, that was at 4.2 on stock dude, not that hot at all for air on stock, then I got him a Frio which dropped him down to low 30's on full load. I big difference but still you can OC on stock coolers with the right thermal paste.

My HD has no link I will fix it, didn't see that.

Who cares about synthetic benchmarks?  In games, a GeForce GTX 460 1 GB usually finishes between a Radeon HD 5830 and 5850.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king

Or pick some other review site if you prefer.

-----

The main similarity between the Corsair TX and TX V2 series is Corsair marketing.  The former is built by Channel Well and the latter by Seasonic.  They really don't have much to do with each other.  The TX V2 offers signficantly better energy efficiency and much lower ripple.  The older TX series isn't bad, but the TX V2 is a lot better.

-----

Even if you can overclock a processor a ways on a relatively low end motherboard with not that much power circuitry, and a really awful stock cooler, it's not a smart thing to do.  That could easily fry the motherboard and/or processor.  You need overengineered components all around if you want to overclock with some modicum of safety.  The stock cooler is barely adequate at stock speeds, and while the motherboard could perhaps handle a modest overclock, it's not at all the class of hardware you should be looking at if you want to push 4.8 GHz.

"then I got him a Frio which dropped him down to low 30's on full load."

Low 30s at full load on a 95 W processor even at stock speed simply isn't happening on air cooling, unless you live in an unusually cold house.  The ambient temperature inside the case is probably going to be at least high 20s at times, if not already into the low 30s.  Maybe if you turn off the heat and leave the windows open while it's snowing outside, then maybe you could get low 30s for the processor.

Originally posted by Quizzical

Who cares about synthetic benchmarks?  In games, a GeForce GTX 460 1 GB usually finishes between a Radeon HD 5830 and 5850.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3809/nvidias-geforce-gtx-460-the-200-king

Or pick some other review site if you prefer.

I wouldn't care about synthetics if it was a HD comparison but since it is a video card and both take all 10+ benchmarks the same way with the same hardware then their is no reason why you wouldn't take the better performing card. Most those are not synthetic mind you, a benchmark on video graphics doing a scene from a DX11 game calculating FPS is not synthetic because the same could be shown in real game. Also a few have online game FPS score from real world operations, namely WOW as an example.

-----

The main similarity between the Corsair TX and TX V2 series is Corsair marketing.  The former is built by Channel Well and the latter by Seasonic.  They really don't have much to do with each other.  The TX V2 offers signficantly better energy efficiency and much lower ripple.  The older TX series isn't bad, but the TX V2 is a lot better.

The ripple value is about the same with slight variance, barely any change when it comes to ripple on a PSU the lower the better and under 45Mv ripple is considered low which both of these operate at with 100% loads on the 12v rail. The difference between the two is mainly branding. But yeah I would take V2 over V1 if I had more faith in it, since some people been having lots issues with failing on the V2. The reason I went V1.

-----

Even if you can overclock a processor a ways on a relatively low end motherboard with not that much power circuitry, and a really awful stock cooler, it's not a smart thing to do.  That could easily fry the motherboard and/or processor.  You need overengineered components all around if you want to overclock with some modicum of safety.  The stock cooler is barely adequate at stock speeds, and while the motherboard could perhaps handle a modest overclock, it's not at all the class of hardware you should be looking at if you want to push 4.8 GHz.

Maybe you don't know Gigabyte boards to well then. This board like most of their boards are designed for overclocking, except the higher end boards offer more bios control and better chipsets and aesthetics. This one is designed for overclocking just like most of their low end boards, it has all the same as the big boys in terms of overclocking safety.

The fact is this can OC just like the expensive ones can.

From this boards manual. The GIGABYTE Ultra Durable™ 3 design features twice the copper for both the power and ground layers of the PCB, dramatically lowering system temperature by efficiently spreading heat from critical areas of the motherboard (such as the CPU power zone) throughout the entire PCB. GIGABYTE's Ultra Durable™ 3 also lowers the PCB impedance by 50%, which helps to reduce electrical waste and further lowers component temperatures. A 2x Copper layer design also provides improved signal quality and lower EMI (Electromagnetic Interference), providing better system stability and allowing for greater margins for overclocking

"then I got him a Frio which dropped him down to low 30's on full load."

Low 30s at full load on a 95 W processor even at stock speed simply isn't happening on air cooling, unless you live in an unusually cold house.  The ambient temperature inside the case is probably going to be at least high 20s at times, if not already into the low 30s.  Maybe if you turn off the heat and leave the windows open while it's snowing outside, then maybe you could get low 30s for the processor.

 

Low 30's 34-36c full load is what his temps were at. Average home temp of 78F, many got same results. His was using both fans in uni direction max speed. Why is that hard to believe. You keep throwing stuff out trying to dismiss me. 

Don't believe me look for self.  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835106150&cm_re=FRIO-_-35-106-150-_-Product

Strange others report same temps with similar builds as his. You trying say all those people posting on newegg are full of it?

"I wouldn't care about synthetics if it was a HD comparison but since it is a video card and both take all 10+ benchmarks the same way with the same hardware then their is no reason why you wouldn't take the better performing card."

So click on the link that I posted.  The GTX 460 1 GB beats the 5830 in most of the games.  Now you're saying that there's no reason why someone wouldn't take the GTX 460?  Why were you pushing the 5830, again?

-----

"The ripple value is about the same with slight variance, "

I can't find a clean comparison of the TX650s.  So let's try the 750 W versions:

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-TX750W-Power-Supply-Review/505/7

103 mV on +12 V at full load.

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/Corsair-TX750-V2-Power-Supply-Review/1227/7

28 mV on +12 V at full load.  Slight variance?  The 75 mV difference is over 60% of the maximum value allowed by the ATX specification.

-----

"Maybe you don't know Gigabyte boards to well then. This board like most of their boards are designed for overclocking"

Gigabyte is the name of a company, not a product line.  Like many motherboard manufacturers, they make a variety of motherboards, ranging from the high end to the low end.  The higher end motherboards are indeed designed to handle quite an overclock.  The lower end ones are not.

Let's compare the motherboard you linked to one a little higher up their product lineup.  The GA-P67A-UD3:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128476

The GA-P67A-UD3P:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128477

I count 6 power phases on the -UD3, as compared to 14 on the -UD3P.  The -UD3P has a couple of decent sized heatsinks covering the power circuitry, and connected by a heatpipe to spread out the heat.  The -UD3 leaves some of the power circuitry exposed without a heatsink at all.

Think that will make a difference in overclocking potential?  If it won't, then why'd Gigabyte pay the extra expense in building the -UD3P?  This is a physical hardware difference, not just something in the BIOS.

Now, the -UD3 is perfectly safe at stock speeds.  It should be able to handle a modest overclock just fine, too.  But trying to push a Sandy Bridge processor to 4.8 GHz on the -UD3 is taking a serious risk of frying the motherboard, especially if you leave it there long-term.   By contrast, the -UD3P should be able to handle that sort of overclock just fine.

-----

"Low 30's 34-36c full load is what his temps were at. Average home temp of 78F, many got same results."

So now 36 is "low 30s"?  You're claiming a load temperature delta of only 10 C over the ambient temperature.  Let's see what a review site found for that same cooler.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Thermaltake/Frio/5.html

That sure looks to me like a temperature delta of 25 C over ambient at stock speeds.  Give the processor a hefty overclock and it's a difference of 48 C.  That's an awful lot more than 8-10 C, don't you think?

Now, that's with a Core i5 750, not a Core i5 2500K.  But those both have a TDP of 95 W, and pushing a Core i5 2500K to 4.8 GHz is perhaps comparable to pushing a Core i5 750 to just over 4 GHz as that review site did.  The higher clock speed of Sandy Bridge roughly offsets the power savings of the die shrink.

Regardless, your build doesn't include a Frio, or any other heatsink besides the stock one.  A Thermaltake Frio can handle a pretty big overclock, but the stock heatsink that Intel ships sure can't.

I was curious about the Frio heatsink claims. 36C under 100% load is a ridiculously low number, and really isn't very plausible unless your looking at an underclocked CPU.

So I went and read the reviews, like Bezado suggested to back up his claim.

Sure, it looks like a decent air cooler. It doesn't look like it's anything miraculous though. Most of the reviews are posting 50-60C temps under full load with overclocks (which is about normal, and will vary widely based on case airflow and ambient air conditions). There was one report about a 40-45C under full load (on a Phenom 2 X4 with stock clocks) - that one I could maybe believe in a cold room, but I would be willing to bet it creeps up closer to 50C after it stabilizes.

Sub-40C under full load, just isn't going to happen on air (or even water for that matter) in a case with the covers on. I can totally believe temps in the 30's at idle, and probably even under turboboost with just a single core loaded. But you start violating laws of thermodynamics when you claim that you can dump 150+W of heat (typical overclocked quad core CPU) with only about 1 square inch of surface contact area (that part is fixed, that's all the bigger the heat spreader on the CPU die is), and an ambient temperature of anything over 20C. Keep in mind you have two thermal interfaces there to consider: the CPU to the heatsink, and the heatsink to the air inside the case, and your going to have some thermal resistance going over each of those interfaces.

E gadz..

Excess is waste and many of you don't seem to put value on parts that matter.

This is obvious a "value rig".. so Intel is out. (think business use, vrs home use) You gain considerably more over-all performance choosing an AMD system, because of the savings, put elsehwere (ie: add an SSD to your build).

But, the best option here is wait one month. Because if you didn't know, AMD is about to relase their brand new CPUs (Bulldozer) & Motherboards, with the new 900 series chipsets.. all within weeks.

@ $800 and some self control you can net urself a Fusion APU & SSD boot drive, etc.. All included in ur $800 price point..  in AMD land, u can get a full featured motherboard (USB 3.0 & SATA 6) for $89 bucks...

Very few of these people's builds are balanced, or have ur needs considered as an end user of games. Plus, one more month of waiting means (possibly) you'll have  another $50, or so..

Zambezi isn't a fusion chip.  AMD fusion means graphics in the same die as the processor.  Llano will be fusion, but not necessarily of interest to the original poster, as he'll want higher graphics performance than that.

We really don't know how Zambezi processors will be priced.  I'd actually expect the high bin four module chips to be pretty expensive.  The reason that the Phenom II chips are as cheap as they are is that AMD knows that they simply aren't competitive with Intel on performance.  Llano won't be much better on performance, as it's the same basic processor architecture with not high enough IPC.  Zambezi probably will be better, but AMD doesn't need to sell Zambezi chips for cheap, as people on a budget can get Llano instead.

AMD officially estimates that a year from now, they'll sell about 20% Bulldozer, 70% Llano, and 10% Bobcat chips.  Bulldozer is going to give much better gaming performance than Llano, so for most people to go with Llano, AMD will have to price Bulldozer out of the budget of most people.