So here's the deal. I've been playing MMOs since 2001. Started off playing mainly asian MMOs like Ragnarok Online and Lineage 2. Both had things I really enjoyed, and some other things I didn't. Since then I've also played many western MMOs like Vanguard, Age of Conan, D&DOnline, LOTRO, Warhammer and Rift. I find that as time goes on, depth and complexity become more important to me. It also seems that they become harder to find. It's been years since I've been able to truly enjoy any MMO.

I'll start with the gameplay. It seems like so much potential isn't realized here. Above all else, I like to have variety and depth in my gameplay. Take attributes, for example. The last game I played that allowed you to actually develop them yourself was RO. Nowadays, it seems attributes are all handled by item bonuses, which in turn is completely controlled by what the designers choose to put on those items. Not only that, but the attributes themselves are shallow. In most RPGs, there are 2-3 attributes of interest to any class. I pretty much always play a Rogue, and most of the time Dexterity is a better version of Strength, so even Strength is made obsolete, dropping the useful attributes to 1-2. I miss the days when I could actually choose my attributes and how I wanted to mold my character. I was excited when I started playing Rift about the options the soul system provided. However, I quickly discovered the limits of that customization, and it was made all the less special when you realize that anyone can have up to 4 souls at once all of equal level. Kind of cheapens all that you've done with your character up to that point. I guess I just really miss feeling like my character was unique. I also can't stand caps. As soon as I hit a cap, and there is no way to keep improving, I feel like there's nothing left to do.

The next thing I'd really like is expansive crafting. Vanguard was probably the closest I came to this. It seems like the vast majority of games these days follow a shallow template for a crafting system. I want to have to discover things. There should be all kinds of recipes that you may never acquire, and some you may discover by mistake. Have the ability to craft almost anything, and augment/improve it with almost anything else. Have extra special ingredients and materials hidden all over the place and in dangerous, hard to reach places. Limit characters to 1 crafting profession, and make mastering it a character life-long affair. You should have to work with other people to create truly impressive things. These days it is far too easy for people to make all kinds of alts with all kinds of professions and become their own self-sufficient factory.

Finally, I'd like to see deeper, more interesting story and quests. I can't believe we're STILL doing gather x of y quests. Maybe early in the game, while your character is unknown and unproven, but there is really no excuse past that. I want to do interesting quests with backstory I can actually care about. Furthermore, I want to actually NEED to read it. Does anyone actually read these things anymore? There's no need to. It's quicker and easier to just hit next, next, accept, follow map markers, wait till your quest status completes, then follow the map marker back. If quests were a little more complex and required a little more thought, I think you would find that people would actually pay more attention to them, because they would NEED to. This would make them more meaningful and increase their lifespan. How great would it be if you actually had to explore, discover things, interrogate people to find what you're looking for. If what you're doing is more involved, the actual process would seem like much less of a chore. It might also encourage a more mature, tight-knit community to deal with quests and story that aren't mind-numbingly simple and boring.

This turned into much more of a rant than I intended. All I really wanted to ask was if anyone knew of any games like this, either present or future? I was looking forward to Rift, TERA, GW2 and SW:TOR for the past year and a bit. I've played Rift and I don't think I can last with it. I've yet to play the other 3, but I have concerns about all of them, and I'm not sure which would come closest to fitting the bill. Does anyone know of anything else that does? Any other thoughts/comments/suggestions?

Here, here.  I agree with all of your points/suggestions and am willing to pay a premium price (25-30 a month even) if someone would actually build a more in depth MMORPG.

Right now I'm concerned that most of the upcoming titles will be too much of the same thing we've experienced recently, (though I have some real hope for GW2) but if anyone gives you some good suggestions (outside of EVE) I'll probably be right there with you.

Killing time in RIFT at the moment but I'd leave in a heartbeat for a more in-depth MMO.

Personally I hate crafting in MMOs, and just find it a massive timesink. I would rather get items slaying dragons or killing other players. That said if some really awesome item is only available from crafting I go out of my way to get it but I certainly don't enjoy that process.

Originally posted by emesto

Personally I hate crafting in MMOs, and just find it a massive timesink. I would rather get items slaying dragons or killing other players. That said if some really awesome item is only available from crafting I go out of my way to get it but I certainly don't enjoy that process.

Well, I'm in agreement with you, I don't care to do crafting, but I like MMO's to have good crafting for other people to do.  What I can't stand is if the design is such that only by crafting can a player propser in the game world (Linege 2 comes to mind), there should always be a way for the  more combat oriented player to earn his cash killing stuff so he can spend it on the great crafted gear that someone else has for sale.

But its a very tricky balance and few MMO's outside of EVE and some others have got it right IMO.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by emesto

Personally I hate crafting in MMOs, and just find it a massive timesink. I would rather get items slaying dragons or killing other players. That said if some really awesome item is only available from crafting I go out of my way to get it but I certainly don't enjoy that process.

Well, I'm in agreement with you, I don't care to do crafting, but I like MMO's to have good crafting for other people to do.  What I can't stand is if the design is such that only by crafting can a player propser in the game world (Linege 2 comes to mind), there should always be a way for the  more combat oriented player to earn his cash killing stuff so he can spend it on the great crafted gear that someone else has for sale.

But its a very tricky balance and few MMO's outside of EVE and some others have got it right IMO.

My bad, I should have been more specific with this. I didn't mean that people should be forced to craft. Quite the opposite, I don't think anyone should be forced to do anything, really. Having really extensive crafting would prevent people from being forced to grind the same mobs/quests or try to kill the same raids for their gear. Personally I really enjoy crafting, and I just want it to have a lot more depth and be a whole game in itself. I liked how Vanguard did crafting, but I think even more depth could be achieved. Of course, anyone should still be able to hunt and quest, and spend their own rewards on whatever gear they like. Whether that gear was dropped or crafted, it's all the same to them.

I also think the quality of crafted gear should run the gamut from equivalent to to lowly mob drops, all the way to nearly the quality of raid drops. What would be great is if even raid drops could be further improved through crafting. I know some people who would rather just craft their entire time in an MMO and this would make it viable for them. I think it would do some amazing things for a game's economy, as well.

Kyleran, I share a lot of your feelings toward future releases, but I'm curious what is it specifically about GW2 that has you hopeful? I played the first GW briefly and liked it but couldn't quite love it, and only know a few things about GW2 like the flashy spell animations, and something about dynamic quests.

...Anyone? Please tell me there is something to look forward to.

According to the media declared top game developers, in 10 years from now they imagine mmo's will be like:

More open world games

and

More lobby based games

and

different ways to monetize their goods

It's over brother.

well, i would say - try ryzom