Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by OrsonDiturno

Personally, I would rather have dueling in the game. Otherwise, I would have to claw my eyes out when 2 RPer's start Text-fighting.

Lightning bolt!

Lightning bolt!

Lightning bolt!

Well, if your aim was to make "Sovrath the preparer" cry, mission accomplished.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by bookworm438

Originally posted by DarkPony

No dueling? 0_0

That is kind of sucky. Great casual way to practice pvp and its fun and exciting to duel friends and rivals. Also a roleplaying tool.

I hope they will promote it from their "wish list" to their "needs implementation asafp list".

And this line made me sigh a little:

"Therefore, all player characters in Guild Wars 2 are considered “good” and would never join one of the many “evil” organizations in Tyria."

 

 

 

Well, if you read their reasoning it kind of makes sense. Their PvP is group oriented. Therefore, their main focus should be on group coordinated pvp system (their structured and unstructured group systems). 1v1 does not prepare you for coordinating with a group. At most, it helps e-peen. "Ooo I defeated x many people in a duel!!!". My response, "your point? Go try some structured PvP now where teamwork is emphasized". We should be happy that it's on their wishlist, and not on their never to be implemented list. Besides, I would much rather they focused on getting the real pvp content right and then focus on something trivial like dueling.

This does not mean I'm not in support of a dueling system. I would actually like if they implemented a dueling system. In fact, I would like it if they implemented an ad hoc group duel system. Get together a group and challenge another group to a duel. This would be great for guilds to host tournaments. But, I would still rather they get the actual content, and the standard pvp system finished and polished first. Add dueling in a future update. 

As for the part that made you sigh. Unfortunately, GW2 is still a themepark MMO. GW2 still has a story to tell. Allowing people to align with the enemy just does not fit with the story. You can have sort of the darker good people, that is the people who do good but are kind of jerks, but you can't have a character that is affiiliated with evil. The story just does not allow it.

I like that group-dueling idea a lot.

But not having 1 vs. 1 dueling because of "GW2 being focussed on group pvp" like they say, is actually kind of a silly and bad excuse;

Practicing 1 vs. 1's and learning about your strengths and weaknesses against different classes would in fact be very helpful for your pvp viability in general and benefit you in group based pvp as well. Next to that, in any kind of group based pvp, 1 vs. 1 encounters are commonplace, especially in large and open areas like the Mists are set out to be.

The only good reason I can think of not to have duels would be class balance issues because they would surface much more distinctly.

In a game designed for group PvP, any balance issues that arrise in 1v1 are irrelevant because of the format, not because of badly balanced classes.  I also don't remember much 1v1 happening in GW PvP. Granted, nothing was ever larger than 12v12.

It's a nice little thing for those people who want it, but really unnecessary, like walking, imo. The people who want it and like it will get a kick out of it, those that don't will never touch or care about the feature.

Originally posted by Fishbaitz
It's a nice little thing for those people who want it, but really unnecessary, like walking, imo. The people who want it and like it will get a kick out of it, those that don't will never touch or care about the feature.

The same goes for any non-mendatory feature right? Things like mini-games, emotes, key-binding, you name it. Hell, it applies to both PvE as a whole and PvP as a whole.

PvE, WvW, and arena PvP are sold as main content of the game. They may not be mandatory but if they are not there people will notice and it won't be pretty. Deuling is the tiniest subsection of arena PvP. Emotes are superflous. Keybindings are a must if you want your game to be taken seriously by people, especially the PvP crowd. Minigames are, again, an extra set of content but they have some very specific and unique rules and are balanced against itself. If their is a dueling minigame, thats acceptable, as it will likely be a change from just having your standard character try to duel some random bystandard as is.

1v1 is the lowest form of PvP. How many skill based games do you know of that balance for that kind of encounter? Even FPS tend to shy away from 1v1 and go for team based formats. Why? Because they are more dynamic and add depth without making the game more complex. Something like Starcraft is an exception, since they are complex and deep enough and balanced around 1v1 matchups, adding more players changes the way that economies work and grow.

What can I say, this blows. It's such a simple feature and not implementing it really makes no sense to me since ANet is making all those promises about releasing a finished product. Like above poster said, if there will be dueling minigames, I won't have a problem with it. When I read the title of this thread I got really excited, hoping to hear some good news, because I find dueling to be a lot of fun. I love PvP and dueling's a great form of it, especially that it's more relaxing and lets you test new thing out without significant consequences.  Just my 2 copper.

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by thedarkess

I think they should not be worried about balance in dueling. I dont know any mmo that has completely balanced 1 on 1 PvP. they should add it just for fun.

  I totally agree.  While I am not an avid PvP fan, I can't see how having this in the game is gonna do more harm than good. For those that like it, have a blast. For those like me, add the option to auto block the morons that follow people  around trying to duel anyone that passes by. 

 Auto block = one problem solved. 

Auto-decline works wonders too.

I have no problem with dueling in the game, per se.  It can be good practice, especially when you want to tweak your build in a controlled environment.  And then of course, there's just the sheer enjoyment of it.  But the problem arises from players who will cry (they will exist, they will be legion, and they will be shrill) because their favorite class gets completely wtfpwnd in one-on-one combat. 

The fact that ANet is balancing classes for group play means something. It means that some professions are going to have a sizable edge over others when matched together in single combat.  The only remedy to it is to try and balance out the professions for this mode of play.  That leaves two options: throw out group balance in favor of one-on-one or have two systems.  Neither of these options are very good.  In fact, they both suck big time.

If I had any confidence in the maturity and amenability of the general gaming community, I'd say go for.  Toss it in as is, unbalanced and uneven, and let people participate if they wish.  But I can pretty much guarantee that the wailing and moaning that would ensue by those whose favorite profession ends up with the short end of the dueling stick, will make the entire premise untenable.  I even fear for the unbalanced nature of WvWvW because of it, but my fingers are crossed that it will work out anyway

Really, the only way I see it working is through the use of a separate mechanic like the bar brawl, which basically strips away class distinctions and evens the playing field.  But that hardly qualifies.

Originally posted by ioncannon

What can I say, this blows. It's such a simple feature and not implementing it really makes no sense to me since ANet is making all those promises about releasing a finished product. Like above poster said, if there will be dueling minigames, I won't have a problem with it. When I read the title of this thread I got really excited, hoping to hear some good news, because I find dueling to be a lot of fun. I love PvP and dueling's a great form of it, especially that it's more relaxing and lets you test new thing out without significant consequences.  Just my 2 copper.

Anet never said what the promise of a finished game entails. In general, a finished product means something that is usable with minimal problems and gets the job done. I would imagine to Anet, a finished product would entail releasing the game with all the big features they've stated, with minimal bugs/glitches, and good graphics. They've never said dueling was part of the equation for GW2 to be considered a finished game. In fact, in the past they've stated quite the opposite. Duel would not be included in GW2. At least now they are saying that it's on their wishlist to implement in the future.

Dueling CAN be a fun casual thing to do, as long as everyone understand that 1v1 does not = group play, and therefore will not be balanced. Unfortunately, you'll get plenty of people who complain about being unable to beat x profession in 1v1.

The idea of testing new things is limited in scope. Those new things may not carry over into group pvp at all.

My proposition for a future dueling system AFTER they finish with the main content and have the game out the door:

Have a duel system that entails both group and single player play. You and another person may form two groups and challenge each other, possibly adding a feature to include a third group. There will be an auto-decline option. There should be an auto decline option to choose to ignore the other person for a minute or two after the request is sent (to prevent whisper spamming). There will be a duel option panel, for those 3 team matches. At the top in bold letters, there should be a statement saying "THE GAME IS NOT BALANCED FOR DUELING, AND THEREFORE SOME CLASSES MAY BY NATURE BE STRONGER THAN OTHERS IN A 1V1 SITUATION. BY DUELING YOU UNDERSTAND THIS STATEMENT." In fact the first time you open the duel panel, or use a duel request command a pop up should come up forcing you to read this statement and accept that you understand it. Dueling also may only be done in areas where an event isn't taking place.

I want big emphasis on the concept of balance not being done for 1v1.

Don't really care about dueling but I don't see the harm in it. I don't think they should worry about balancing it and just put it in. Dueling is just a simple and fun side activity. If they wanted to make it more e-sport I guess they could add "Official Duel" which is ranked and "Unofficial Duel" for the people that are just having some fun.

Originally posted by ioncannon

What can I say, this blows. It's such a simple feature and not implementing it really makes no sense to me since ANet is making all those promises about releasing a finished product. Like above poster said, if there will be dueling minigames, I won't have a problem with it. When I read the title of this thread I got really excited, hoping to hear some good news, because I find dueling to be a lot of fun. I love PvP and dueling's a great form of it, especially that it's more relaxing and lets you test new thing out without significant consequences.  Just my 2 copper.

Be fair to the devs... they're saying it's not a mechanic they have time to work on ie they are already making something like 8 games in 1 for B2P - But they would like to add it in future updates after release, that is to say, allow some form of worked in game system designed around it, not just ad hoc let players get on with it (every spare second of combat is prly iterating around GvG, WvW & PvE) which they can still do at release just not designed. I'd say that's dissappointing for duelist but as long as it's in their roadmap...

While i don't consider this a huge disappointment.. it sort of takes away from the experience especially from rp. I really don't see why this would be hard to implement, especially seeing a large amount of players would definitely enjoy the feature. Also they say 1v1 won't work out, but claim you can go out into WvWvW by yourself and achieve stuff.. looking at this now sorta takes away from the might of that statement, I messed around in my guild hall in the original and 2 warriors could never take each other down, i'm really hoping pvp isn't like this, that would mean if you do play by yourself doing solo stuff in WvW and you meet up with a similar class it would make it completely pointless to even fight because you will be stuck in stalemates until someone else jumps in, honestly that doesn't sound like a great way for pvp to work.

I am loving almost everything I hear about GW2, but it is unacceptable to not have duelling. That is a huge thing for a lot of people. From RPers to Min-maxers to epeen snobs, this is a thing almost everyone does at some point, and for many people is a focal point of the downtime in the game. There is no reason not to have duelling, and a plethora of reasons for it to be included.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

I am loving almost everything I hear about GW2, but it is unacceptable to not have duelling. That is a huge thing for a lot of people. From RPers to Min-maxers to epeen snobs, this is a thing almost everyone does at some point, and for many people is a focal point of the downtime in the game. There is no reason not to have duelling, and a plethora of reasons for it to be included.

This may be unsatisfactory but they're saying such is the team balancing for GvG duelling is way down the pecking order as a design-iteration... put that way it's understandable. Ppl will find a way to duel with what they are given no doubt eg House-Rules? Good to hear they have it in mind for the future.

Let's see how GvG turns out eh? If that is piss-poor then we can say hmm, duelling could have snuck in, if not then fair-do's

It's very silly for them to NOT want dueling in the game at all.

Having an "auto decline" for duels is perfect for those that are so against it so those that want it won't suffer. 

But I guess having the pro dueling side suffer is fine eh.

But Swan! People would complain about their class being weak compared to another in SINGLE pvp!  Yup.  Since they plan on doing OPEN PvP in large areas, I expect this to happen with or without dueling.  But I am a PvPer.  And dueling someone can help me learn a few counters to a rock to my scissors.

lolLore...gimme a break.

Originally posted by Swanea

It's very silly for them to NOT want dueling in the game at all.

Having an "auto decline" for duels is perfect for those that are so against it so those that want it won't suffer. 

 

But I guess having the pro dueling side suffer is fine eh.

But Swan! People would complain about their class being weak compared to another in SINGLE pvp!  Yup.  Since they plan on doing OPEN PvP in large areas, I expect this to happen with or without dueling.  But I am a PvPer.  And dueling someone can help me learn a few counters to a rock to my scissors.

lolLore...gimme a break.

They are not saying they do not want it in, just that the addage:

"If a job is worth doing, it's worth doing well."

IE they are not creating a system that they have put labour into or specific design into. Why?

1. They do not have enough time/priority to fit it in so instead of doing a half-assed job they are saying "in the future".

2. If ArenaNet say a system will be in: It must configure to high QA. They are being honest, we cannot do this at this time.

3. It's something we would like to do in the future.

4. Players can do it anyway ad hoc. Create your own house-rules somewhere. But the take-home message: Player-driven not Developer-driven activity.

I think a lot of people have missed something in translation, here!?

Originally posted by DarkPony

No dueling? 0_0

That is kind of sucky. Great casual way to practice pvp and its fun and exciting to duel friends and rivals. Also a roleplaying tool.

I hope they will promote it from their "wish list" to their "needs implementation asafp list".

And this line made me sigh a little:

"Therefore, all player characters in Guild Wars 2 are considered “good” and would never join one of the many “evil” organizations in Tyria."

 

 

 

You complain that pvp in gw goes against the lore but you do want them to implent a feature that you can battle against your own friends?

Originally posted by Leucrotta

Originally posted by DarkPony

No dueling? 0_0

That is kind of sucky. Great casual way to practice pvp and its fun and exciting to duel friends and rivals. Also a roleplaying tool.

I hope they will promote it from their "wish list" to their "needs implementation asafp list".

And this line made me sigh a little:

"Therefore, all player characters in Guild Wars 2 are considered “good” and would never join one of the many “evil” organizations in Tyria."

 

 

 

You complain that pvp in gw goes against the lore but you do want them to implent a feature that you can battle against your own friends?

Yes and it's called a duel.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

I am loving almost everything I hear about GW2, but it is unacceptable to not have duelling. That is a huge thing for a lot of people. From RPers to Min-maxers to epeen snobs, this is a thing almost everyone does at some point, and for many people is a focal point of the downtime in the game. There is no reason not to have duelling, and a plethora of reasons for it to be included.

How about balance?  If the game is to be balanced for group play, it will not be balanced for one-on-one.  That means bitching about one or more professions being ill-suited to dueling while others are highly effective at it. 

People complain.  They complain about everything.  You might have a consensus among people in this thread that even unbalanced dueling is better than having none, but that won't extend to the mass throngs of people who will be playing, who aren't here to comment, and who won't understand why their profession of choice is getting turned into a grease spot with agonizing regularity.  They won't understand and they will cry rivers of tears.

The only way around it is to rebalance for one-on-one, making every profession viable, thus screwing with the group balance that the game uses as a foundation for every other aspect, or you run an alternate rule system specifically for duels.  Neither option is very appealing.

So dueling.  Nice concept and popular enough, but how to implement it in this game?

Duelling lovers...

When i close my eyes i envision 2 lovers duelling in their nightgowns....

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

I am loving almost everything I hear about GW2, but it is unacceptable to not have duelling. That is a huge thing for a lot of people. From RPers to Min-maxers to epeen snobs, this is a thing almost everyone does at some point, and for many people is a focal point of the downtime in the game. There is no reason not to have duelling, and a plethora of reasons for it to be included.

How about balance?  If the game is to be balanced for group play, it will not be balanced for one-on-one.  That means bitching about one or more professions being ill-suited to dueling while others are highly effective at it. 

People complain.  They complain about everything.  You might have a consensus among people in this thread that even unbalanced dueling is better than having none, but that won't extend to the mass throngs of people who will be playing, who aren't here to comment, and who won't understand why their profession of choice is getting turned into a grease spot with agonizing regularity.  They won't understand and they will cry rivers of tears.

The only way around it is to rebalance for one-on-one, making every profession viable, thus screwing with the group balance that the game uses as a foundation for every other aspect, or you run an alternate rule system specifically for duels.  Neither option is very appealing.

So dueling.  Nice concept and popular enough, but how to implement it in this game?

How are you and others so sure that classes will be so severly unbalanced and that there wouldn't be another way "to balance group pvp" than to have these 1 on 1 balance issues?

Serious class imbalance seems like a hugely undesirable flaw which will end up in the community spot light with or without dueling anyway, as any kind of group pvp contains a lot of 1 vs. 1 moments as well.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

I am loving almost everything I hear about GW2, but it is unacceptable to not have duelling. That is a huge thing for a lot of people. From RPers to Min-maxers to epeen snobs, this is a thing almost everyone does at some point, and for many people is a focal point of the downtime in the game. There is no reason not to have duelling, and a plethora of reasons for it to be included.

How about balance?  If the game is to be balanced for group play, it will not be balanced for one-on-one.  That means bitching about one or more professions being ill-suited to dueling while others are highly effective at it. 

People complain.  They complain about everything.  You might have a consensus among people in this thread that even unbalanced dueling is better than having none, but that won't extend to the mass throngs of people who will be playing, who aren't here to comment, and who won't understand why their profession of choice is getting turned into a grease spot with agonizing regularity.  They won't understand and they will cry rivers of tears.

The only way around it is to rebalance for one-on-one, making every profession viable, thus screwing with the group balance that the game uses as a foundation for every other aspect, or you run an alternate rule system specifically for duels.  Neither option is very appealing.

So dueling.  Nice concept and popular enough, but how to implement it in this game?

How are you and others so sure that classes will be so severly unbalanced and that there wouldn't be another way "to balance group pvp" than to have these 1 on 1 balance issues?

Serious class imbalance seems like a hugely undesirable flaw which will end up in the community spot light with or without dueling anyway, as any kind of group pvp contains a lot of 1 vs. 1 moments as well.

We aren't sure how severely unbalanced they will be. In fact, I'm pretty sure that each class will be viable on it's own, somewhat. However, battling 1v1 is not how they want PvP done -- hence why you have the cross profession combos. Battling 1v1 does not prepare people for group pvp, where everyone has to look out for everyone. Someone who soley does 1v1 pvp may not understand the idea of rezing your teammates, using cross profession combos, and all the dynamics that would make a successful team. The biggest reason why Anet is reluctant to implement dueling, and this is their reasoning, is it does not fit with how they want pvp to be. They want PvP to be group oriented, not 1v1 oriented. They want to promote helping each other, using each other's strengths to cover your own weakness. 1v1 does not do this. 1v1 promotes solo play, not team play.