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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Phasing, why the hate?

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81 posts found
  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

 
OP  4/18/11 7:06:17 PM#1

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17618

4/18/11 7:22:30 PM#2
Originally posted by Deathofsage

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

ok well...

your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

or...

your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

or...

you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

or...

you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

or...

There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

or we can use phasing. either way.

  rygard49

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/11
Posts: 988

4/18/11 7:23:18 PM#3

For me a big issue with phasing is the seperation from other players. I can be in the same geographic location as my best friend, but since I'm three steps ahead of him in a quest line I can't see him or help him. It's very limiting in terms of grouping with the people you want to group with.

For world PvP it also becomes an issue when chasing a player through a zone. If you get the upper hand and he runs into a zone where his phase differs from yorus, you all of a sudden lose your PvP encounter.

Phasing is great at what it does creating the illusion that you're affecting the world with your actions, which was sorely lacking in MMOs, but the consequence is that now you're sacrificing the social aspects that you play MMOs for in the first place.

  Kothoses

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/08/10
Posts: 692

4/18/11 7:35:45 PM#4

Phasing is even worse than instancing for seperating a player base.  The model Guildwars and Cryptic use of social hubs and instances atleast allowes players a way to group together for the PvE quest content even if they them selves are not on that quest.  (Note pre and post searing are the exception).  The Phasing doesnt just seperate you in instances but also in the outdoor world.

 

If used sparingly for NPCs it can be great, but when its used for whole zones all it does is dillute the playerbase even more than the Cryptic/Guild wars Method.

 

To be honest the leveling experience in wow leaves me at this stage wondering "why is this an mmo?"

 

SW:TOR has a much huger influence of story as will GW 2 and neither of them need phasing to seperate and segregate players it does not give the illusion of affecting the world because in an mmo the quest/plot is one everyone has done, the MMO part comes from being able to explore that world and story and setting and content with friends.  Phasing prevents you from doing this in the vast majority of circumstances.

 

World affecting changes come from the sandbox genre of games where player run cities and zones and economies can become a reality and they are fantastic, In a sandbox game.

 

Thus a Phased game is not a true MMO but simply a game with a chat room that they charge £9 a month for.

Promoting thought a new Gaming video blog http://www.youtube.com/user/quinnthalas discussing games, gamers and the internet with gameplay footage as background.

  Larsa

Novice Member

Joined: 2/14/04
Posts: 992

4/18/11 8:54:26 PM#5
Originally posted by Deathofsage

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

Phasing is about the exact opposite to "living, breathing, evolving" because the player next to you doesn't see the world like you do. It's not the world that is changing, instead they are showing you a different version of the world.

Player A: Nice weather, nice tavern over there, good barkeep.

Player B: What do you talk about, it's winter, the barkeep is dead and your nice tavern is burning down.

I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

 
OP  4/18/11 9:52:42 PM#6
Originally posted by rygard49

For me a big issue with phasing is the seperation from other players. I can be in the same geographic location as my best friend, but since I'm three steps ahead of him in a quest line I can't see him or help him. It's very limiting in terms of grouping with the people you want to group with.

For world PvP it also becomes an issue when chasing a player through a zone. If you get the upper hand and he runs into a zone where his phase differs from yorus, you all of a sudden lose your PvP encounter.

Phasing is great at what it does creating the illusion that you're affecting the world with your actions, which was sorely lacking in MMOs, but the consequence is that now you're sacrificing the social aspects that you play MMOs for in the first place.

Of course, there's no reason that they can't implement a "Your party leader sees the area at a different stage of progress than you do. Would you like to align to their phase?" or something more lore-ish sounding.

For your pvp scenario, the same could possibly be forced (no decision) or simply, as some games do when you run too far. The victory goes to the chaser. Good point though, this is where the biggest problem would be.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

 
OP  4/18/11 9:55:37 PM#7
Originally posted by Larsa
Originally posted by Deathofsage

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

Phasing is about the exact opposite to "living, breathing, evolving" because the player next to you doesn't see the world like you do. It's not the world that is changing, instead they are showing you a different version of the world.

Player A: Nice weather, nice tavern over there, good barkeep.

Player B: What do you talk about, it's winter, the barkeep is dead and your nice tavern is burning down.

All I meant is that it does better towards the image of a changing world rather than, for instance, an army that I've obliterated through a series of quests still running around and if I fly <over yonder>, I can kill their named bosses which I've already done. Phasing may just be a false illusion, but it's something.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16838

4/18/11 10:01:16 PM#8

Phasing is like instancing and cut scenes a great tool for the devs to add to the story if they use it right, However if you use too much it turns the game into a ghost town just like cut scenes easily turns into a snoorefeast if they overuse it (*cough* Dragon age *cough*).

The problem here is that certain devs who get a new flashy technology uses it in every possible situation and that sucks, MMOs should feel massive. That is the reason for the hate, few people complain about a few well used instances or phasing but it is rarely just that.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3732

4/18/11 10:27:23 PM#9

I think phasing could be a very useful tool, and you could base a very immersive, whole MMORPG around it, if the phasing doesn't include other players.

If all the players can still see each other, there's a lot of interesting scenarios you can do if you come up with an IC reason why people are seeing completely different things. :)

  Worstluck

Novice Member

Joined: 1/29/11
Posts: 1280

No man controls my destiny... especially not one who attacks downwind and stinks of garlic.

4/18/11 10:36:17 PM#10

Phasing was done pretty well in WoW's Wrath of the Lich King.  There was a moderate amount of it, and I felt that it added to the overall story of the game.  However, it was massively overdone in Cataclysm, to the point I could barely level to 85.  It just seperates everyone, moreso the instancing.  It was just awful in Cataclysm because it seperated everyone by what part of the quest line they were on.  I played on a very populated PvP server and I hardly saw anyone while leveling up, simply because of phasing.  All my Alliance "enemies" were in different phases of whatever silly quest.  At least with instancing, you can get a group together, regardless of what quests people have, and have at it.  With phasing, everyone needs to be on the same quest/storyline, or they will be in a different world. 

 

This applies to WoW mainly, as I really don't know of too many other games that do this.  Most just settle for open world or instancing of some sort because those concepts work well.  With WoW's phasing, it's like playing a single player game built into an MMO. 

  Deathofsage

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/11/11
Posts: 1010

Honestly:
FFXI Fanboy
RIFT hater.
Stop rewarding wow-clones.

 
OP  4/18/11 10:46:03 PM#11

Thanks guys!

The thing phasing addresses for me is most mmo's--when the npc's address you, they address everyone the same at x point in your progression. They'll tell you YOU are the savior of the world, but someone else at that point in progression will also be told (speaking to them) YOU are the savior of the world. Aside from it being an MMO, most games address you in the sincle player perspective. Sometimes using %n~ to address you by name.

Gathering areas, the main cities, should almost never be phased, really, but combat and enemy areas? Sure, it makes sense.

Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Placing bets Blizzard's "Titan" will be a wow-clone.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

4/18/11 10:49:43 PM#12

Either A.) Players can permanently change the real game world, which means that only one party can ever kill the Dread Emperor and raze his castle, or B.) players cannot permanently change the real game world, so that the castle is always standing and the Dread Emperor is always on his throne, or C.) there is no "real" game world, and each player sees the version of the world that they have shaped by their actions. I don't think any of these are strictly better or worse than any others; I appreciate the fact that different games can work in different ways.

I also think it would be cool if someone wove phasing into the game's narrative, as Meowhead suggested. You could go with a story where you begin to learn the truth about the world, and begin to see it "as it really is" while the people around you still have the wool pulled over their eyes. Or go the total opposite route as your character decends into madness and can no longer perceive reality normally.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2615

4/18/11 10:57:08 PM#13

I loved phasing in World of Warcraft.  Complaints about it segregating the playerbase are certainly valid, but then again, overland questing in WoW has always been a solo experience, so the added instance of phasing simply gives the tired old solo quest mechanic and interesting dynamic. Outside of it being a minor annoyance when you can't meet up with your budy in a certain area, it doesn't really disrupt any gameplay in any other way.

The only issue I ever really had was in that underwater zone in Cataclysm where you had to complete no small number of quests before the mender in the zone actually became visable for you.

  kalinis

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/11/10
Posts: 1444

4/18/11 11:08:30 PM#14

I love phasing for the most part. I didnt like going to icc and if u hadnt done the quests and another of your raid group did u couldnt see each other outside of icc raid to summon. U had to either go to the dungeons summon stone or hope a lock had shown up to summon.

I loved how it was used for tharazane rep and sons of hodir and shadow gate and opening that up. As well as with the argetn vangaurd and other ares.

Truth is having a freind be 3 steps behind in most phased areas in wow they arent gonna even need yoru help. No offense most of those questlines are easy and solo able without hurting anything.

What i llike is using phasing in lowbie zones so that when im leveling on a pvp server and im a level 30 say in stranglethorn i wont have to worry bout some 85 coming and killing me and camping me so i have to quit playing.

Personally i think wow should have a penatly system for that or make u unable to target plyaers 50 levels below u.

People whine about phasing and world pvp being dead but from my experiance in wow at least world pvp consists of some jerk max level ganking me camping me and when my guildies show up runnign like a scared dog and avoding fighting peope his own level only to come back 30 mins later to start all over again.

Plus i u are 3 or more rings of a quest chain higher then your freind u werent playign with them in the first place so why do u care if u cant see them. I could undestand if u played together and phaisng put u in diffrent places but as long as u quest together all the way as me and gf do its never an issue.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

4/19/11 12:27:26 AM#15

Phasing is fantastic for crafting superb solo quest experiences. Really the only problem to solve is linking up two friends who want to do world content together.

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

4/19/11 12:42:59 AM#16
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Deathofsage

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

ok well...

your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

or...

your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

or...

you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

or...

you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

or...

There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

or we can use phasing. either way.

Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Majinash

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/11/08
Posts: 1343

4/19/11 12:46:59 AM#17
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Deathofsage

this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

ok well...

your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

or...

your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

or...

you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

or...

you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

or...

There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

or we can use phasing. either way.

Couldn't agree more.  All these things are examples of players having a real impact on the world (most seem to be taken from Lineage2?) and none of them involve phasing.

 

When a game has phasing, I feel like i've made zero impact on the world, because only I see the change, until someone else does the same thing I did and then they see it, how is that making an impact or changing the world?  thats following a story line.

So yeah, I'll take a real impact on the game world, over a forced linear story.

Everything creates huge amounts of negativity on the internet, that's what the internet is for: Negativity, porn and lolcats.

  User Deleted
4/19/11 12:48:33 AM#18

cataclysm went nuts with it. i hated it. my old guild leveled together for quest and it made it a nightmare for some of us. dudes were standing next to you and my GM was yelling for me to get with the program and get back to him. I told him dude i'm right next to you! he said oh well your gonna have to ride the sub again bro we are done in this watery shit hole time to head to next zone.

It isolates people and it's a cheap way to try and make you feel like your special. Ditch it before game devs start thinking it awesome and saves on heavy traffic areas for lag. cheap crap bra

  erictlewis

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3059

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

4/19/11 1:10:11 AM#19

I hate phasing and this is why.  It separates the player base.   Lotro tried phasing when it went free to play, you could ride 10 foot and swap between 3 different zones. I'm not sure they ever got that worked out.

In eq2 we had phasing for years.  Some zones has a max of 100 players. Others has a max of 50 players.  The problem is public quests in EQ2,  You need 2 to 3 raids to do storm gorge. The problem is 2 raids fills a zone then you get folks who get an invite and swap over, and wind up with 4/24 man raids in a zone meant for 50 folks, the lag is horrible.

I wish they could come up with something better.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17618

4/19/11 1:17:48 AM#20
Originally posted by Elikal
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Deathofsage

What is it about phasing, when done properly (no bugs/miscalculations), that people hate so thoroughly? I mean sure, it could be used wrong but until we have a game that truly answers to the claim of "living, breathing, evolving", this is the best thing we have to make it feel like our actions are having an impact on the world.

ok well...

your guild decides to take over certain important hunting areas. Other guilds try to war them but it is impossible because they are much higher lvl and better equipped. So a group of guilds ally together in order to try to fight back the offending alliance. because of this certain crafting mats are unavailable because of the instability of the region forcing prices to go up.

or...

your guild takes a castle and decides to keep all taxes low so that players can make more profits if they do business there. Suddenly one of the more bellicose alliances decides to siege your castle. Because your group is very well liked and respected, many guilds decide to come to that siege in order to help you drive off the attackers. As a thanks your guild makes server tax free days so that people can kee most of their money from business.

or...

you are a high lvl pk'er and you take over a small noob town. Guilds then have to patrol the area in order to make sure that their lower lvl members can level peacefully... you also offer to charge a toll to these lower lvl players and make money from those who just want to get to their lower lvl dungeons for leveling.

or...

you are great at business and making money and decide to buy up all of a certain set of mats so that you can corner the market. This forces other players to have to deal with you or try to get the mats themselves which is very time consuming. you then make deals with some of the alliances to sell them these high lvl crafting mats at lower prices if they will patrol and take out players who are trying to get them for themselves. Because they have access to these particular mats they can craft much better equipment than their competitors which aids them in wars.

or...

There are many new players so you make it a point to go to the noob lands and show the players around the whole world, payign for the porting costs so that they can have a better understanding of what is in store for them. You then help them wiht lower lvl gear that is superior. Because of this help they stay in the game and become a part of a thriving community.

or we can use phasing. either way.

Sorry, but these sound a bit made-up reasons to me. You can still do phasing and do all this, just in some different ways.

I like phasing. It allows some story to have a visible impact. The more the better. I am just tired of having zero impact with my doings.

Um, every single one of those things actually happened in Lineage 2 (as another poster knew).

Elikal, there is/was actually a game out there where not only was all this possible but all this ACTUALLY DID HAPPEN!.

Lineage 2 is the only game I've ever played where the world was actually "a world".

I say "is/was" because they have changed the game a bit now so I don't know what happens in it as of this thread.

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