I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?"

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..."

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no."

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

Originally posted by Burr

Great polished game, and leveling to 50 was super fun for me. Then I got to 50 and my options were WFs, and dungeons.

Same model as other games. Why not put out more solo content at 50? AAs? Something else to do besides get the latest gear. I can gear grind in any game I want. That is not an 'end-game' I am seeking.

WFs are fun and all, but if that's al the game offers at 50 then it's not worth it.

I would stay far away from this game unless you are wanting a game similar to WoW.

We need origianality at level 50, or we need something to strive for outside of gear at 50.

So... did you buy it because the of the marketing for Rift that targetted WoW or the developer statements that said they were making a "safe" game that didn't try to change much or the post by players on this forum that said the game wasn't all that different than games that came before?

There was plenty of warning that the game was not going to be overly different.

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?" - What would be the point?

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..." - Again, what would be the point?

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no." - Because its pointless .

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

In all fairness, many people enjoy those activities so they're having a good time.  But if a person is looking for something that doesn't involve collecting acheivements or gear grinding, Rift isn't their game.

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?"

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..."

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no."

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

 Your so right .  Why all this rush to max level . In first year of WoW it took me 4-5 months of pretty constant play to get to max level . There were no quest helpers apert from the wikis . I had fun leveling and actually expected given it was my first mmo that the game would be pretty much over once I reached it . Even games like Lotro and Rift have an in built quest helper now as does WoW . Its the instant gratification generation they are designed to appeal to most mmos arn't hardcore anymore just varying degrees of medium to softcore.

Theres no way I can see other than player generated content that could possibly keep up with the amount of gameplay some people expect . Possibly when our technology evolves then mmos or something like them will actually have what you looking for . But you could be waiting maybe half your life untill that happens .

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?"

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..."

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no."

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

 Your so right .  Why all this rush to max level . In first year of WoW it took me 4-5 months of pretty constant play to get to max level . There were no quest helpers apert from the wikis . I had fun leveling and actually expected given it was my first mmo that the game would be pretty much over once I reached it . Even games like Lotro and Rift have an in built quest helper now as does WoW . Its the instant gratification generation they are designed to appeal to most mmos arn't hardcore anymore just varying degrees of medium to softcore.

Theres no way I can see other than player generated content that could possibly keep up with the amount of gameplay some people expect . Possibly when our technology evolves then mmos or something like them will actually have what you looking for . But you could be waiting maybe half your life untill that happens .

I take offense at the word rush to max level.  Its a term used by casuals to somehow imply that players reaching max level are below them.  In a game like Rift where it takes 2 days played for fast levelers and 3-5 days played for slow levelers to reach max it is virtually impossible not to reach max level quickly.  ALmost everyone I know reached max level 2-7 days into headstart.  Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days real time.

That being said there is plenty pf content for hardcore players at max level.  I have been max level since day 3 of headstart and I still enjoy running both tiers of experts dungeons, I still to a lesser extent enjoy running raid and expert rifts, I enjoy collection artifacts, I did enjoy doing dalies before I maxed them, I love Greenscale and I like what I have seen of RoS so far.  I think the endgame content while a bit on the easy side isextremely well done and plentiful.  I always have things to do.  The people who get bored here are the same people hat get bored everygame.  Its the solo players, the people without a guild and the PvP players who get bored.  But those players get bored and leave every game.  They are just box sale people not long term players.  Thye are here simply to help fund the core gamers endgame content.  So while i disagree with their crying I appreciate thier monetary support of endgame content.

Actually I both agree and disagree. 

The game was announced to be a little familiar as Finche said in one vid.  The game had many devs from older games like Warhammer and EQ even some from NCSoft. I expected the "Familiar" to be more along those types of games.  Not WoW.  I don't think they had a single WoW ex-developer in their studio. 

As far as achievements go,  I like them to a degree.  But like WoW, there was achievements that rewarded the players that zerged to the end.   There was 1st 80s and such like that.  Now to me those achievements were stupid.    Most these are just put in the game to create replay value anyway. 

I always did achievements on my own even before the game had achievements put in.   Doing Stratholme as a 3 man instead of 5 back in the day.    2 manning LBRS,  MC with 25 people instead of 40.   Kill timers for how fast we can down a boss.  Trying to do a full MC run in under 2 hours.  There was plenty of user created achievements that you didn't really need in game ones. 

But if you noticed, the amount of content Blizz pumps out is much less and easier.  So what they do is offer heroic versions with achievements to make it replayable for many people bored with it.  Instead of making a truly gradual progressively skilled game with more content.  I think it's how they keep costs down and yet offer enough to keep the subs coming.

This game no different.

If they had brought a game that resembled Vanguard/EQ/SWG, etc.  I would have been a die hard fan of the game.  I think because they chose to be like WoW, will end up being their demise.  I guaranty there is a lot of gamers out there looking for that next EQ like game.  In fact, if you spent any time on Rift forums before the game launched, most of those people were looking for just that.  Myself included.

Originally posted by Zippy

 

I take offense at the word rush to max level.  Its a term used by casuals to somehow imply that players reaching max level are below them.  In a game like Rift where it takes 2 days played for fast levelers and 3-5 days played for slow levelers to reach max it is virtually impossible not to reach max level quickly.  ALmost everyone I know reached max level 2-7 days into headstart.  Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days played.

That being said there is plenty pf content for hardcore players at max level.  I have been max level since day 3 of headstart and I still enjoy running both tiers of experts dungeons, I still to a lesser extent enjoy running raid and expert rifts, I enjoy collection artifacts, I did enjoy doing dalies before I maxed them, I love Greenscale and I like what I have seen of RoS so far.  I think the endgame content while a bit on the easy side isextremely well done and plentiful.  I always have things to do.  The people who get bored here are the same people hat get bored everygame.  Its the solo players, the people without a guild and the PvP players who get bored.  But those players get bored and leave every game.  They are just box sale people not long term players.  Thye are here simply to help fund the core gamers endgame content.  So while i disagree with their crying I appreciate thier monetary support of endgame content.

Very true, NeoplasmX, I was also torn to Rift because of the former eq- and vanguard-devs. What a disappointment. After seven years of avoiding wow I just was thrown into it - and it was soooo dumb.

Zippy, you said it yourself, the dungeons are a bit easy. If you read the patch notes, Trion is making them even easier with Patch 1.2. With Patch 1.1 they increased the rewards, so that even the dumbest of the dumb will run around in purple gear. Everybody will run around soon in the exactly same gear. Instant gratification ftw.

When I quit after three weeks I had two complete sets of t2 gear - there was no point in doing the dungeons again. I had two of the three relevant factions at max. Well, relevant is a bit overrated, as there is no point in having them maxed. I had seen the extremely boring four battlegrounds (ok, actually I'm a pve-player, so I was not really interested in that anyway).

You mentioned also the great fun in collecting artifacts. Maybe just open the auction house and buy all of them in less than two hours? There is anyway nothing where you can spent the money.

I disagree with your statement that solo players without guilds leave rift in droves - it is the hardcore crowd! I know, you think you are hardcore because you could beat rift - but sorry, every ape could do so (just train him to follow the arrow). Maybe you are a true hardcore gamer, but you cannot prove this in a game like rift.

Imho the socalled hardcore guys leave, because there is no way to improve your char anymore. Not even with the gear grind, because Trion gives away all the gear almost for free. Rift is a casual-only game, and for casual gameplay it is really really well done. Get over it.

Originally posted by Clywd

Originally posted by Zippy

 

I take offense at the word rush to max level.  Its a term used by casuals to somehow imply that players reaching max level are below them.  In a game like Rift where it takes 2 days played for fast levelers and 3-5 days played for slow levelers to reach max it is virtually impossible not to reach max level quickly.  ALmost everyone I know reached max level 2-7 days into headstart.  Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days played.

That being said there is plenty pf content for hardcore players at max level.  I have been max level since day 3 of headstart and I still enjoy running both tiers of experts dungeons, I still to a lesser extent enjoy running raid and expert rifts, I enjoy collection artifacts, I did enjoy doing dalies before I maxed them, I love Greenscale and I like what I have seen of RoS so far.  I think the endgame content while a bit on the easy side isextremely well done and plentiful.  I always have things to do.  The people who get bored here are the same people hat get bored everygame.  Its the solo players, the people without a guild and the PvP players who get bored.  But those players get bored and leave every game.  They are just box sale people not long term players.  Thye are here simply to help fund the core gamers endgame content.  So while i disagree with their crying I appreciate thier monetary support of endgame content.

Very true, NeoplasmX, I was also torn to Rift because of the former eq- and vanguard-devs. What a disappointment. After seven years of avoiding wow I just was thrown into it - and it was soooo dumb.

Zippy, you said it yourself, the dungeons are a bit easy. If you read the patch notes, Trion is making them even easier with Patch 1.2. With Patch 1.1 they increased the rewards, so that even the dumbest of the dumb will run around in purple gear. Everybody will run around soon in the exactly same gear. Instant gratification ftw.

When I quit after three weeks I had two complete sets of t2 gear - there was no point in doing the dungeons again. I had two of the three relevant factions at max. Well, relevant is a bit overrated, as there is no point in having them maxed. I had seen the extremely boring four battlegrounds (ok, actually I'm a pve-player, so I was not really interested in that anyway).

You mentioned also the great fun in collecting artifacts. Maybe just open the auction house and buy all of them in less than two hours? There is anyway nothing where you can spent the money.

I disagree with your statement that solo players without guilds leave rift in droves - it is the hardcore crowd! I know, you think you are hardcore because you could beat rift - but sorry, every ape could do so (just train him to follow the arrow). Maybe you are a true hardcore gamer, but you cannot prove this in a game like rift.

Imho the socalled hardcore guys leave, because there is no way to improve your char anymore. Not even with the gear grind, because Trion gives away all the gear almost for free. Rift is a casual-only game, and for casual gameplay it is really really well done. Get over it.

I agree its easy to max out gear.  I maxed out all my t2 drops at least 3 weeks ago.  For a hardcore player to continue playing they need to be in a progression raiding guild.  If your a hardcore player and you don't raid then you have likley been out of content for awhile.  Me. I like running the T2's and even the T1's even if I do not need any drops.  I enjoy helping friends and guildmates.

But again if your a hardcore player you need to be a raider to contine to have content.  The raid content for a first dungeon is pretty good.  Yes they released it to easy despite all the alpha raid testers telling them that in Alpha.  But its still a good 1st dungeon.  What bothers me more is all the exploits many of the PvP guilds used to progress like the 3 weapon equip.  I am happy to see RoS in game and and I am excited about HK coming soon.  Hardcore raiders will hang around.  While I agree with you the hardcore non-raiders will leave but they are like the casuals and the PvP playuers they are just box sale people.  They never hang around longer than a few months in any game.  I am excited about the future of the games raid content and I am excited by the amount and quality of endgame content Rift has released with.

Having been max level now for over two weeks. I have to agree unfortunutly, it left me to think "when did i have the most fun in an MMO?". to which i figured out, EQ and AC and even CoH, Why? I never hit max level. The leveling cruves got really really steep as you leveled. MMO's these days are to focused on rewarding levels to easily, which is o.k i suppose. If you don't like it, don't play. Don't get me wrong though, I am having my fun at level 50. But the community is a big part of that. We need another MMO like, FF 11 or EQ 1, EQ 2 even. Leveling got really difficult, that it made you want to go explore or do other things for a little bit. All I do now is - Get quest, hit  " M " go to the little dot, rinse and repeat, two weeks later, level 50.  My personal biggest complaint with Rift at level 50 - The world is really reALLy small. Not even a zone dedicated to level 50's, two half zones(Iron Pine Peak doesn't count). 

Also dont forget, back in the day we didin't have quest helpers as extravagent as Thottbot or built in QuestHelpers like these days, we used to have to figure out a lot of that our selves - or find someone who knew. 

Originally posted by Zippy

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?"

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..."

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no."

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

 Your so right .  Why all this rush to max level . In first year of WoW it took me 4-5 months of pretty constant play to get to max level . There were no quest helpers apert from the wikis . I had fun leveling and actually expected given it was my first mmo that the game would be pretty much over once I reached it . Even games like Lotro and Rift have an in built quest helper now as does WoW . Its the instant gratification generation they are designed to appeal to most mmos arn't hardcore anymore just varying degrees of medium to softcore.

Theres no way I can see other than player generated content that could possibly keep up with the amount of gameplay some people expect . Possibly when our technology evolves then mmos or something like them will actually have what you looking for . But you could be waiting maybe half your life untill that happens .

 Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days played.

 

Wait, what? Did you really use "Casual" and "50 hours a week" in the same sentence?

I have to agree with posts 2, 5, and 6 in particular. It's kind of a kick in the balls that these games keep giving us extremely fast and easy solo leveling through the majority of the content of the game, then when you hit cap unless you're willing to grind dungeons and raids then that's pretty much it for that character. Perhaps that's why they call it endgame, because if you're a solo'er then that is the end of the game for you. It's not my preferred playstyle, but it's a deceptive way to treat players that do play that way.

I hit 50 within the first month on an extremely lax play schedule because time is a commodity I just don't have a lot of but it was a fun little trip and I still have many quests to finish in some areas ( I mixed up leveling via questing solo and group, doing rifts and WFs throughout the leveling process).

At 50, I've pretty well stopped Warfronts because unless you keep up with the gear curve you're no longer competitive. I don't care to run any dungeon more than once (perhaps a couple more than that if guildies would like to), so I don't do that either. I don't know if I'll bother playing all the way through my six month sub but I'm still enjoying playing all but the top brackets in warfronts, so until that gets boring I'll likely play when I can. If it does get boring there's always TF2 or LoTRO F2P.

I would personally like to see a game with much, much slower progression as well as the ability to mentor/sidekick as in other games. I really wouldn't care if it took me a year to hit max level as the gear grind has never been that important to me. However, on top of that give us something more than just gear to aspire to at endgame.

Originally posted by caremuchless

Originally posted by Zippy

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?"

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..."

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no."

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

 Your so right .  Why all this rush to max level . In first year of WoW it took me 4-5 months of pretty constant play to get to max level . There were no quest helpers apert from the wikis . I had fun leveling and actually expected given it was my first mmo that the game would be pretty much over once I reached it . Even games like Lotro and Rift have an in built quest helper now as does WoW . Its the instant gratification generation they are designed to appeal to most mmos arn't hardcore anymore just varying degrees of medium to softcore.

Theres no way I can see other than player generated content that could possibly keep up with the amount of gameplay some people expect . Possibly when our technology evolves then mmos or something like them will actually have what you looking for . But you could be waiting maybe half your life untill that happens .

 Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days played.

 

Wait, what? Did you really use "Casual" and "50 hours a week" in the same sentence?

Oops sorry made a mistake in that post I meant a causal player who plays only 40-50 hours a week can make max level in 7-10 ays real time.  Not time played.  But yes I consider casual play to be 30-50 hours a week.  But then a ain I think hardcore is not time played but more an attitude.  Many hardocre players only play 30-50 hours a week but they have the hardcore attitude which allows them to play effiicently and get a lot done in such a short amount of time.  If you look at top raiding guilds you will notice they generally raid a lot less in time per week than the casual guilds because they are much more effiecient in what they do.  But that is also because they frontload their time breaking content.  But Yes I believe 30-50 hours is casual in a time sense.  But I generally think of casual as a mindset of sloppy unfocused and undisciplened play. 

30-50 hors should be clsoe to the norm.  I recall seeing a stufy about the time of release that said the average MMO player played a little in excess of 40 hours per week.  Which is only 6 hours per day.  That is likely lower now with the mainstreaming and dumbing down of MMO's but its likely still somewhere clsoe to accurate.

30-50 hours per week isn't casual playing, its a full time job.

8-12 hrs a week, now that's pretty casual.

Rfit does a good job catering to the more casual player, I can imagine a person playing 40+ hrs a week burning out the content of most MMORPG's pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?" - What would be the point?

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..." - Again, what would be the point?

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no." - Because its pointless .

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

In all fairness, many people enjoy those activities so they're having a good time.  But if a person is looking for something that doesn't involve collecting acheivements or gear grinding, Rift isn't their game.

Everything you posted in yellow is moot. The essence of MMORPGs is pointless. Crafting a longsword has as much impact as building a castle, or destroying a boss in an instance. That being said, the degree of importance varies from person to person. In one instance, I had a CO-GM in WoW who was obsessed with pets. It was what she considered fun, and fruitful to gather as many pets as she could. Going as far as to pay real cash for them.

Me? I like pets, but I can go on without them. The point is, you can't argue these "points" as facts and have a place to stand. MMORPGs means different things to different people. What you like in a MMORPG can't be argued as fact anymore than what you dislike in a MMORPG can't be argued as fact. You should present your options as opinions and make no allusion to the contrary.

"But if a person is looking for something that doesn't involve collecting acheivements or gear grinding, Rift isn't their game." is especially insulting to gamers. I do not wish to take sides, but you might as well be arguing why a Black Xbox is better than a white one. It has just as much meaning in the context of things.

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

Originally posted by Miles-Prower

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by korriken

I love the usual QQs.

"there's nothing to do at level 50!"

did you get all of the collection items?

"no, why?" - What would be the point?

did you get all of the achievements?"

"no..." - Again, what would be the point?

did you even try to organize some pvp?

"well, no." - Because its pointless .

then you have plenty to do. problem is, people rush to the max level and expect there to be this grand pile of content... 1.5 months from launch? Gimme a break. I haven't hit max yet, and I'm not worried about it either. Once I do hit max, yes I will work towards maxing out my gear, then I'm going to work towards organizing large scale pvp battles in the world, maybe even set up some pvp games to play, so long as those playing respect the rules (heh, right... you never know though, worked in SWG) then it could be a killer good time.

It also doesn't help that many people play 6+ hours a day, get burned out, quit, and write bad reviews.

In all fairness, many people enjoy those activities so they're having a good time.  But if a person is looking for something that doesn't involve collecting acheivements or gear grinding, Rift isn't their game.

Everything you posted in yellow is moot. The essence of MMORPGs is pointless. Crafting a longsword has as much impact as building a castle, or destroying a boss in an instance. That being said, the degree of importance varies from person to person. In one instance, I had a CO-GM in WoW who was obsessed with pets. It was what she considered fun, and fruitful to gather as many pets as she could. Going as far as to pay real cash for them.

Me? I like pets, but I can go on without them. The point is, you can't argue these "points" as facts and have a place to stand. MMORPGs means different things to different people. What you like in a MMORPG can't be argued as fact anymore than what you dislike in a MMORPG can't be argued as fact. You should present your options as opinions and make no allusion to the contrary.

"But if a person is looking for something that doesn't involve collecting acheivements or gear grinding, Rift isn't their game." is especially insulting to gamers. I do not wish to take sides, but you might as well be arguing why a Black Xbox is better than a white one. It has just as much meaning in the context of things.

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

I agree with most of your post.

But regarding the original post: No one should have to go complete collections or achievements just to have something to do, those things have always been optional and something a small portion of the playerbase actually focuses on as a primary form of content.

I felt the game from the beginning was an exact copy of WoW and such, so i never got passed level 12. This game is simply bland, boring, and does absolutely nothing fun or innovative to further the genre. I am not a fan. :(

Originally posted by Kyleran

30-50 hours per week isn't casual playing, its a full time job.

8-12 hrs a week, now that's pretty casual.

Rfit does a good job catering to the more casual player, I can imagine a person playing 40+ hrs a week burning out the content of most MMORPG's pretty quickly.

If I only played 8-12 hours a week or only had time for that much gaming, I wouldn't even touch an MMO.  Quite stupid right there.    Me and all my friends are older players, ranging from 25-50 in age, have lives (I'm married with kids), full time jobs and I still manage to fit in 30 hours a week in an MMO easy. 

I have to agree with the post above instead.  It's more about attitude.  I am in a pretty top guild and beat all the content quick.  It's more mindset and attitude.  I do know people that log on and just poke around play 5 different alts at one time and even on the easiest of games playing 40 hours a week, they never make it to max level in any game they play. That's just their playstyle.  In Aion they had like 5 chars and only one in the level 30s and played for over a year and over 40 hours a week.  They just didn't care to level much at all, it was 2nd nature to the game, it was just something that happened while they were goofing around all day or while crafting everything under the sun.  But out of everyone I know that play MMOs, that is just 2 people out of 30, so I think we're talking bout the minority here of players.

Originally posted by Zippy

 

...

Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days real time.

...

Om my, is it casual now to play 40-50 hours a week? Thats how much I work a week. MMOS are definately not something for me any more :(

Originally posted by tomaswilen

Originally posted by Zippy

 

...

Even a casual player who only plays 40-50 hours a week can hit max level in 7-10 days real time.

...

Om my, is it casual now to play 40-50 hours a week? Thats how much I work a week. MMOS are definately not something for me any more :(

No, but back in the day it was.  Some still do.    I think the hardcore/casual argument been around long time.  It's pretty much what each person defines it as cause they are very loose terms.

Still doesn't matter, I think even if you took the one guy's post of 8-12 hours a week into consideration your still on postponing the content about another month.  That is very weak content.  You can bring the collectibles and achievement argument into it but then why not just play a game like Farmville if that's what you into?   It's something that I do when I wanna just relax in the game or do on the side, it to me is NOT content.  It's adding replay value to already existing content.  If you take that into account, Rift is falling a bit short.

wow, honestly when someone says they can play 30h a week and still have time for the wife and kids and everything around that you cant do much more than play.

Casual for me is 14hours a week max, most of the time i top at 8h, yes you can play any game with only that amount of time.

If i ignore friends ,wife kids and irl stuff on weekdays i can maybe get 28h in a week but then i would miss out on the rest that is fun.

For me id like to balance games with irl stuff and then 30-40hours a week is insane amount of time anyone saying anything else is just boosting bs.