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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » Why Do You Care?

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31 posts found
  Melieza

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 5/11/09
Posts: 271

 
OP  4/11/11 3:47:12 PM#1

Over the past few years it seems the MMO community has gained an odd and sudden desire to "know the numbers".

How many subs?  What's the revenue?  What's the CCU?  How many servers?  What are the servers at?

My question is, why?

My first serious MMO was FFXI.  I purchased the game simply because I had liked the other FF games.  I knew nothing about it but didn't care, I wanted to try it out.  When FFXI first came out you didnt get to pick which server you wanted to make your character on, you were placed on one and had to go through a crazy process with a friend code if you wanted a specific one.  Because of this, without running to your browser, you didnt even know how many servers there were.  Even if you did go online, you would only find a server status of up or down, nothing about population, even 'low', 'medium', or 'high'.  The only way to tell what servers *seemed* to have high populations was which Allakazam FFXI server forum had the most posts each day, there wasn't even official forums.

No one said a thing about this.  Not once during the 3 years I played FFXI did I worry about how many people were playing, how many people were online, or how much Square Enix was making and no one I knew did either.  In fact, FFXI had a pretty awesome search feature where with a simple text command you COULD know exactly how many people were online on your server at any given moment.  If anyone DID care, they could easily /search all a few times during the day and get a decent idea, but no one did.  Why would it matter?

It wasn't our problem, and honestly, it still isn't.  So why do you care?

If you like a game, play it.  If you don't like, don't play it.

Why has every player suddenly become the CEO of the company responsible for 'watching the numbers' and making sure things are alright?

I promise you, someone is getting paid a whole lot of money to do that already, they don't need you telling them.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4113

4/11/11 3:51:55 PM#2

I'm not a WoW basher, but this is one area, that Blizzard, with WoW, completely turned into a number's "one Up" game.  They just kept having press releases evertime they hit a new subscriber milestone.  So much so that it influenced sales and marketing and hit the main news.  Now everyone(game companies) wants a piece of the pie so now it matters, sadly.  Players are joining this now as well to show off who's game is better, another sad state. 

So, for just this once, I truly blame WoW.  Something I never do.

http://www.twitch.tv/elockethemmoaddict

https://twitter.com/MMOAddicted

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19398

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/11/11 3:57:47 PM#3

For the most part posters on these forums are discussing why game XYZ is better than game ABC, so they use statistics such as sub numbers and server online figures to help validate their position.

Hard to argue a game is "best" if they have 1000 total paying subs and 200 online at any one time.

Do I really "care", no, but its true, i do try to find out what server populations are and try to play on those that are medium/high?

Why, because an MMORPG with no one online is no fun, and face it, some servers retain player population better than others.

But in the general sense, these numbers are just arguing points, and these forums are all about PVP don't you know. 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Daffid011

Old School

Joined: 1/03/04
Posts: 7652

4/11/11 3:59:36 PM#4

Blizzard wasn't exactly the first to show off their subscription numbers.  Most don't do it anymore, because they are so small in comparison. 

 

I think players are more concerned now, because of the rash of terrible games released.  It gets old dumping $50 on a game only to watch it implode 30 days later and watch the developers struggle to fix unfixable situations.  No one wants to get stuck on a dead server in a brand new game while developers drag their feet to merge servers.  It has gotten to the point that games have been cancelled when they have pre-order boxes for sale at stores or even closing down in less than 90 days.

In my opinion I think players are more nervous about getting invested into new games seeing how many flops there have been. 

  otter3370

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/20/04
Posts: 227

4/11/11 4:04:13 PM#5

About the only time I really hear player numbers brought up is when the subject is WoW or Eve Online.  If it's WoW, that 12 million is a bad thing.  If it's Eve, that 300k is a shining beacon of hope.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

4/11/11 4:09:56 PM#6
Originally posted by Melieza

Over the past few years it seems the MMO community has gained an odd and sudden desire to "know the numbers".

How many subs?  What's the revenue?  What's the CCU?  How many servers?  What are the servers at?

My question is, why?

My first serious MMO was FFXI.  I purchased the game simply because I had liked the other FF games.  I knew nothing about it but didn't care, I wanted to try it out.  When FFXI first came out you didnt get to pick which server you wanted to make your character on, you were placed on one and had to go through a crazy process with a friend code if you wanted a specific one.  Because of this, without running to your browser, you didnt even know how many servers there were.  Even if you did go online, you would only find a server status of up or down, nothing about population, even 'low', 'medium', or 'high'.  The only way to tell what servers *seemed* to have high populations was which Allakazam FFXI server forum had the most posts each day, there wasn't even official forums.

No one said a thing about this.  Not once during the 3 years I played FFXI did I worry about how many people were playing, how many people were online, or how much Square Enix was making and no one I knew did either.  In fact, FFXI had a pretty awesome search feature where with a simple text command you COULD know exactly how many people were online on your server at any given moment.  If anyone DID care, they could easily /search all a few times during the day and get a decent idea, but no one did.  Why would it matter?

It wasn't our problem, and honestly, it still isn't.  So why do you care?

If you like a game, play it.  If you don't like, don't play it.

Why has every player suddenly become the CEO of the company responsible for 'watching the numbers' and making sure things are alright?

I promise you, someone is getting paid a whole lot of money to do that already, they don't need you telling them.

FFXI gamers are a unique breed in the MMO community.

  • You'll rarely find them trying to convince others that they should find FFXI awesome
  • If you ask them what their server pop is they will usually tell you that they don't know, and almost always relay their linkshell in case you feel like playing.
  • They are part of one of the largest MMO communities but one would never guess that if they used any forum, chat room or 3rd party gaming tool (Garena, XFire, Raptr, etc) as a measuring tool.

 

The sub number concern seems to be prevalent among forum posters. From what I've gathered in conversations at fan faires, expos and such the people who don't really visit forums don't seem to really care about such things.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  eyelolled

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/13/10
Posts: 3099

I am more than some of my parts

4/11/11 4:18:43 PM#7

I don't care, at least not for the most part. The only way that it really matters is when the numbers are so low that an MMO starts to feel like a single player game.

All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  Murdus

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/05/07
Posts: 704

we own the sky

4/11/11 4:23:35 PM#8

ignorace is bliss

but otherwise, if i'm throwing down 50 bucks for a videogame, im gonna wanna know if it is gonna be worth my money.

if i want to gamble, ill go to a casino. as for mmorpgs, ill be looking for just enough information to give me a reason to buy it, but i'm not going to go in blind.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17530

4/11/11 4:23:46 PM#9
Originally posted by Melieza

Over the past few years it seems the MMO community has gained an odd and sudden desire to "know the numbers".

How many subs?  What's the revenue?  What's the CCU?  How many servers?  What are the servers at?

My question is, why?

WHOA!

I was (honestly) "just" thinking of the same thing. I was also thinking that if I was a privately owned game company I wouldn't give out the numbers.

I think some people want to know about such things because it will reinforce their opinion as to whether or not the game is worth it.

"Losts of servers?"/"Huge population"/"billions on any one server?"

well then it must be worth playing.

What a shame really.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20242

4/11/11 5:20:38 PM#10
Originally posted by otter3370

About the only time I really hear player numbers brought up is when the subject is WoW or Eve Online.  If it's WoW, that 12 million is a bad thing.  If it's Eve, that 300k is a shining beacon of hope.

 

Nah .. WOW is a great and polished GAME. Eve is niche. The numbers prove it.

  nariusseldon

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 20242

4/11/11 5:22:09 PM#11

I care because the number game is almost as fun as the real game.

Plus, i don't want to play something like Tabula Rasa which crashed and burnt within a few months.

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19398

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

4/11/11 7:17:02 PM#12
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by otter3370

About the only time I really hear player numbers brought up is when the subject is WoW or Eve Online.  If it's WoW, that 12 million is a bad thing.  If it's Eve, that 300k is a shining beacon of hope.

 

Nah .. WOW is a great and polished GAME. Eve is niche. The numbers prove it.

EVE may be niche, it may not be all that polished, but if anything it certainly is GREAT in ways that WOW can never be.

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
Kyleran - Bitter Vet ™ since 2006
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  Metentso

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/14/10
Posts: 1458

4/11/11 7:20:15 PM#13

It's mucho more fun to follow the MMO sales than actually playing them. That's why.

  Digna

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/19/05
Posts: 2014

The pen is mightier than the sword if the sword is very short, and the pen is very sharp.

4/11/11 7:33:32 PM#14

Numbers that are low to me might be the high value for the gaming company. If I am an indie game company and my bean-counters tell me i need to have 10K regular subs to stay in business, if I get 11K permanents subs I am ecstatic (of course I want more but at least I am making my numbers!)

Now I am happy but if  folks who don't know anything about the back end of business - minimum cash flows, project revenue, forecasted sales etc get hold of the 11K number they (many) will walk away thinking 'WoW has 12 million subs..how can a game with 11 THOUSAND be any good' when in reality I have a good game  that just needs those 11K subs to operate (and hopefully keep growing).

 

11k is perfectly healthy for me but given the 'big numbers = success' mentality, I can be hurt by false perceptions based on my 'low' numbers.

  Sideras

Novice Member

Joined: 2/13/04
Posts: 236

4/11/11 7:39:56 PM#15

Games today are quite expensive, and knowing that the game has alot of subscribers would ensure that atleast there's some action going on, rather than buying a game and running around almost alone in a stagnat world.

  StarlightJun

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/10
Posts: 54

4/11/11 9:14:51 PM#16
Originally posted by Sideras

Games today are quite expensive, and knowing that the game has alot of subscribers would ensure that atleast there's some action going on, rather than buying a game and running around almost alone in a stagnat world.

I think that is true and I am nervous I think if I play a game and only few people play. It means game is going to get canceled soon.

  meilirs

Novice Member

Joined: 3/06/11
Posts: 31

4/12/11 6:54:46 AM#17
I have experience with this and let me tell you there are lots of people who care about subscriber number: the angry fanbase. When an MMORPG or MMO makes a decision that players don't like then it's off to research subscriber numbers so they can say "everyone hated your stupid - look people are quitting in droves!" Case in point: SWG NGE
  pyrocrazy

Novice Member

Joined: 7/09/06
Posts: 68

4/12/11 7:04:09 AM#18
Originally posted by Loktofeit

FFXI gamers are a unique breed in the MMO community.


 

^this.

 

I wish FFXI was brand new and updated. Would definitely go back.

  thamighty213

Novice Member

Joined: 9/17/06
Posts: 1648

4/12/11 7:19:02 AM#19

I think the reasons we care are that MMO's are a large financial sink.

 

We dont want to buy a game that will be dead in a year.

 

We dont want to buy a game knowing theres nobody to play with.

 

We dont want to buy a game and continaully invest x per month to it if its going to die before we get going

 

 

People want to be informed as it is what fuels the purchase and commitment of futue spend.

 

These arent single player games that we can play through then sell at your local GAME etc

  Ausare

Novice Member

Joined: 3/23/11
Posts: 870

4/12/11 7:24:35 AM#20

People want to make sure the Massive is one of the M's in their game and not just Some What Possibly Populated by a Few People Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

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