Originally posted by Gravarg

We waited til everyone had done it and the "tricks" to beating it were out to the public.  Much like in FFXI, Absolute Virtue could only be beaten with a good strat.  My guild just doesn't run into a dungeon willy nilly and hacking and slashing at everything.  Make it work like clockwork, just how raids in WoW work.  "When you know what's going to happen, it's easy to know what to do."

Hate to be that guy, but unless you're doing progress runs during the "official" progress phase of an expansion, you're not playing end game.

Comparing the million time nerfed encounter with another games fresh started progress phase is oxymoron at best.

<----- EQ raider.

Originally posted by Gravarg

We waited til everyone had done it and the "tricks" to beating it were out to the public.  Much like in FFXI, Absolute Virtue could only be beaten with a good strat.  My guild just doesn't run into a dungeon willy nilly and hacking and slashing at everything.  Make it work like clockwork, just how raids in WoW work.  "When you know what's going to happen, it's easy to know what to do."

 

Endgame in Rift is alot more unpredictable.

Originally posted by Gravarg

We waited til everyone had done it and the "tricks" to beating it were out to the public.  Much like in FFXI, Absolute Virtue could only be beaten with a good strat.  My guild just doesn't run into a dungeon willy nilly and hacking and slashing at everything.  Make it work like clockwork, just how raids in WoW work.  "When you know what's going to happen, it's easy to know what to do."

 

Ah, so in other words you have never done progression content in WoW, you only killed everything after the strategies were public knowledge and the bosses nefed to be killable by idiots like you, yet you blabber about how WoW is easy.

Comedy gold. 

Originally posted by grapevine

I think you need to stop comparing Rift to a game that no longer exists.   WoW post Cataclsym is a different beast.  Anyone who has completed level 85 HCs can breeze through Rift's expert dungeons.  They aren't hard, in the slighest.  One just needs to pay attention, and much less attention than you currently have to do in WoW.  HC bosses in WoW (now) have much more variation and range of mechanics than any in Rift do.

Rift bosses are either tank and spank, or a half way point between WotLK raid bosses and old school HCs.

In Wows case is the question if it will last or if they plan to make it easy again. After all wouldn't it be the first time. It is good however that they finally focused a bit on older players again.

As for Rifts endgame it sounds like any MMORPG, not better or worse. For a game to offer a endgame I would call "good" I need it to have something new. Maybe GW2, TOR or WoDO can offer that.

Group instances, raids and PvP is not bad but there should be other options for a fun endgame.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

I think you need to stop comparing Rift to a game that no longer exists.   WoW post Cataclsym is a different beast.  Anyone who has completed level 85 HCs can breeze through Rift's expert dungeons.  They aren't hard, in the slighest.  One just needs to pay attention, and much less attention than you currently have to do in WoW.  HC bosses in WoW (now) have much more variation and range of mechanics than any in Rift do.

Rift bosses are either tank and spank, or a half way point between WotLK raid bosses and old school HCs.

In Wows case is the question if it will last or if they plan to make it easy again. After all wouldn't it be the first time. It is good however that they finally focused a bit on older players again.

As for Rifts endgame it sounds like any MMORPG, not better or worse. For a game to offer a endgame I would call "good" I need it to have something new. Maybe GW2, TOR or WoDO can offer that.

Group instances, raids and PvP is not bad but there should be other options for a fun endgame.

Very true, but one can't make that comparison until such a scenario unfolds.   Currently WoW is harder than Rift.

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

I think you need to stop comparing Rift to a game that no longer exists.   WoW post Cataclsym is a different beast.  Anyone who has completed level 85 HCs can breeze through Rift's expert dungeons.  They aren't hard, in the slighest.  One just needs to pay attention, and much less attention than you currently have to do in WoW.  HC bosses in WoW (now) have much more variation and range of mechanics than any in Rift do.

Rift bosses are either tank and spank, or a half way point between WotLK raid bosses and old school HCs.

In Wows case is the question if it will last or if they plan to make it easy again. After all wouldn't it be the first time. It is good however that they finally focused a bit on older players again.

As for Rifts endgame it sounds like any MMORPG, not better or worse. For a game to offer a endgame I would call "good" I need it to have something new. Maybe GW2, TOR or WoDO can offer that.

Group instances, raids and PvP is not bad but there should be other options for a fun endgame.

 

Very true, but one can't make that comparison until such a scenario unfolds.   Currently WoW is harder than Rift.

My girlfriend plays WoW as a healer and she told me she practically facerolls every HC dungeon she does. If WoWs dungeons are trully harder then thats an incredible dissappointment to me.

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

I think you need to stop comparing Rift to a game that no longer exists.   WoW post Cataclsym is a different beast.  Anyone who has completed level 85 HCs can breeze through Rift's expert dungeons.  They aren't hard, in the slighest.  One just needs to pay attention, and much less attention than you currently have to do in WoW.  HC bosses in WoW (now) have much more variation and range of mechanics than any in Rift do.

Rift bosses are either tank and spank, or a half way point between WotLK raid bosses and old school HCs.

In Wows case is the question if it will last or if they plan to make it easy again. After all wouldn't it be the first time. It is good however that they finally focused a bit on older players again.

As for Rifts endgame it sounds like any MMORPG, not better or worse. For a game to offer a endgame I would call "good" I need it to have something new. Maybe GW2, TOR or WoDO can offer that.

Group instances, raids and PvP is not bad but there should be other options for a fun endgame.

 

Very true, but one can't make that comparison until such a scenario unfolds.   Currently WoW is harder than Rift.

My girlfriend plays WoW as a healer and she told me she practically facerolls every HC dungeon she does. If WoWs dungeons are trully harder then thats an incredible dissappointment to me.

I can assume she's now decent geared?  Same goes with Rift.  Do a T1/2 with half decent gear and they are even easier.  Healing doesn't become easier in WoW until people hit (around) item level 346.  At that point HCs have served their purpose, and are little more than for the daily HC run to collect valour points for T11 gear.  T11+ geared HC healing is quite easy, but then again you're in raid level gear, not HC.  End game progression is also currently slower in WoW, than Rift.  In Rift getting full T1 is a waste, as blues in T2 are better.   Like WotLK WoW gaining plaques for gear is a breeze in Rift, and gear isn't expensive.  T2 dungeons (mechanics wise) are also no harder than T1, other than it adivsed to have better gear as they hit harder.

I did a T1 (for the daily) the other day, with a T2 team.  The healer actually complained they were bored, due to the lack of healing needed.  Most of the big hits from Rift bosses can be avoided, as they come from ground spawns or some simple mechanic (i.e. usually hide) you get a warning about.

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

 

I can assume she's now decent geared?  Same goes with Rift.  Do a T1/2 with half decent gear and they are even easier.  Healing doesn't become easier in WoW until people hit (around) item level 346.  At that point HCs have served their purpose, and are little more than for the daily HC run to collect valour points for T11 gear.  T11+ geared HC healing is quite easy, but then again you're in raid level gear, not HC.

 

I did a T1 (for the daily) the other day, with a T2 team.  The healer actually complained they were bored, due to the lack of healing needed.  Most of the big hits from Rift bosses can be avoided, as they come from ground spawns or some simple mechanic (i.e. usually hide) you get a warning about.

IIRC she has an item level of 350+, so she is well geared. I was always told Rifts dungeons were hard or at least going to be hard. I can honestly say I'm not very happy to hear that they aren't.

Also would you say the dungeons are as easy as Wotlk HC's because those were ridiculously easy.

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

 

I can assume she's now decent geared?  Same goes with Rift.  Do a T1/2 with half decent gear and they are even easier.  Healing doesn't become easier in WoW until people hit (around) item level 346.  At that point HCs have served their purpose, and are little more than for the daily HC run to collect valour points for T11 gear.  T11+ geared HC healing is quite easy, but then again you're in raid level gear, not HC.

 

I did a T1 (for the daily) the other day, with a T2 team.  The healer actually complained they were bored, due to the lack of healing needed.  Most of the big hits from Rift bosses can be avoided, as they come from ground spawns or some simple mechanic (i.e. usually hide) you get a warning about.

IIRC she has an item level of 350+, so she is well geared. I was always told Rifts dungeons were hard or at least going to be hard. I can honestly say I'm not very happy to hear that they aren't.

Also would you say the dungeons are as easy as Wotlk HC's because those were ridiculously easy.

They are harder than WotLK HCs, but a lot simpler than WotLK raids.  A boss will typically have 2 - 3 mechanics, but nothing complex.

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by maxpower

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by grapevine

 

I can assume she's now decent geared?  Same goes with Rift.  Do a T1/2 with half decent gear and they are even easier.  Healing doesn't become easier in WoW until people hit (around) item level 346.  At that point HCs have served their purpose, and are little more than for the daily HC run to collect valour points for T11 gear.  T11+ geared HC healing is quite easy, but then again you're in raid level gear, not HC.

 

I did a T1 (for the daily) the other day, with a T2 team.  The healer actually complained they were bored, due to the lack of healing needed.  Most of the big hits from Rift bosses can be avoided, as they come from ground spawns or some simple mechanic (i.e. usually hide) you get a warning about.

IIRC she has an item level of 350+, so she is well geared. I was always told Rifts dungeons were hard or at least going to be hard. I can honestly say I'm not very happy to hear that they aren't.

Also would you say the dungeons are as easy as Wotlk HC's because those were ridiculously easy.

 

They are harder than WotLK HCs, but a lot simpler than WotLK raids.

Alright, thanks for the input. Its nice to know all this beforehand and save myself the dissappointment later.

Originally posted by Blacknd

Originally posted by Arentas

This sounds exactly iike WoW.

With slight differences, yes, he pretty much did describe WoW.

Only difference being that Rift is a 10 times better game than WoW.

Originally posted by jpnole

Originally posted by Blacknd

Originally posted by Arentas

This sounds exactly iike WoW.

With slight differences, yes, he pretty much did describe WoW.

Only difference being that Rift is a 10 times better game than WoW.

Give me an argument for every time Rift is better than WoW and I will not regard your post as (insert negative word).

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Garvon3

If WoW does it better, that's kind of sad, becasue we all know WoW has terrible PvP and crafting, and it's "raiding" is the most casual raiding there is.

 

That isn't quite true, as WoW's raiding at the moment isn't casual.   It's actually one of the biggest culture shocks that came along with Cataclysm.  I dare say that will change when 4.1 is released, due to the new HCs bridging the gear gap and making raids more accessible.

 

Currently WoW's HCs are more challenging than Rift's T1 and T2 expert dungeons.   I can't comment on the raids, as not done any in Rift.

 

You know its a dark day in hell when people call ANYTHING in WoW "hardcore". Guys, WoW is the simplest and easiest MMO on the market. Your raiding can be 100x harder than the normal content, but it still won't be anywhere near as "hardcore" as proper raiding in other MMOs like EverQuest or Dark Age of Camelot.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Garvon3

If WoW does it better, that's kind of sad, becasue we all know WoW has terrible PvP and crafting, and it's "raiding" is the most casual raiding there is.

 

That isn't quite true, as WoW's raiding at the moment isn't casual.   It's actually one of the biggest culture shocks that came along with Cataclysm.  I dare say that will change when 4.1 is released, due to the new HCs bridging the gear gap and making raids more accessible.

 

Currently WoW's HCs are more challenging than Rift's T1 and T2 expert dungeons.   I can't comment on the raids, as not done any in Rift.

 

You know its a dark day in hell when people call ANYTHING in WoW "hardcore". Guys, WoW is the simplest and easiest MMO on the market. Your raiding can be 100x harder than the normal content, but it still won't be anywhere near as "hardcore" as proper raiding in other MMOs like EverQuest or Dark Age of Camelot.

Not hardcore.  Just harder than Rift and not as casual friendly.  Rift = WotLK WoW, with elements of EQ2 and WAR.

Originally posted by Kruul

Originally posted by grapevine

Originally posted by Arentas

This sounds exactly iike WoW.

 

It is, and WoW actually does it better.

 RIFTs PVP is better than WoW which doesnt say much. The Soul system is miles ahead of WoW. RIFTS graphics are alot better than WoW for those who like more eye candy.

WoW does have better PVE, I will give you that, but really nothing else

The PvP isn't better.  It's not really even close  This is mostly because WoWs combat engine is smoother.  Plus, its balance is better... which really is sad.

Originally posted by Arentas

The PvP isn't better.  It's not really even close  This is mostly because WoWs combat engine is smoother.  Plus, its balance is better... which really is sad.

He probably means the setting. WoW Arena is boring (opinion) and has nuffin to do with mmorpg, its more esports. WoW has no world pvp to speak of. There is no insentive and also with all the phasing going on, there is also almost nobody around to fight.

edit: in response to your edit, WoW balance is like any mmorpg... kinda crap. Fotm teams in Arena. Paper-rock-scissor etc.

Originally posted by Gravarg

We waited til everyone had done it and the "tricks" to beating it were out to the public.  Much like in FFXI, Absolute Virtue could only be beaten with a good strat.  My guild just doesn't run into a dungeon willy nilly and hacking and slashing at everything.  Make it work like clockwork, just how raids in WoW work.  "When you know what's going to happen, it's easy to know what to do."

Endgame in Rift is alot more unpredictable.

There are so many things wrong with this statement. I'd hardly believe you wiped only "twice" -- reading about a fight, seeing a fight, and doing a fight are all separate things. Maybe you're so good that reading is enough and you can keep up with everything but I'd doubt the other 9/24 are.

Unless you mean "we waited til 30% buff" but stuff still happens at BQL*, Sindy, and LK. (The only way to die to BQL was for someone to screw up biting, but it happened).

Don't worry, you could have claimed only twenty wipes and noone would believe you either.

And then there was Hallion's L4z0rz. I'll agree that much of this was never hard. (I never died to l4z0rz but they sure as hell caused my guild to wipe).

* * *

As for FFXI.. the best guilds, and teams of the best guilds went at that guy for 4 years with almost no progress besides knowingly exploiting the boss. Anyone killing him now gets a lot of lawls because hw's now old content. 

- Wall Strategy

- As many DRKs as you could find strategy

(For anyone wondering, he could use most class 2hr abilities, including white mage's ability to heal to full instantly, Paladin's ability to be immune to phys damage for a few seconds, Thf's ability to avoid all physical attacks, Warrior's ability for every ability to be a crit and red mage's ability for every spell to be instant cast. There was a locking strategy that took players a long time to figure out, and a developer kill showing hints).

I agree, it sounds like WoW, LoTRO, and most other feature complete themepark quest-based games. Exactly the type of games I'm sick and tired of, which is why I didn't last more than 2 weeks in RIFT. I'm glad people are having fun though, not everyone is burnt out on these type of games like I am, and RIFT is the first game to release feature complete and in good shape since LOTRO, so I think the game will draw a steady subscriber base, most likely appealing to players who like themepark games but have worn out previous titles.

Originally posted by Riftsoldier

I consider myself to be a casual weekend gamer. I play an average of 8 to 15 hours a week. I hit level cap with my first character this last week.

 

 

1) All the warfronts are open and everyone is on the same level of play except for gear. So PvP becomes a game of tactics and knowing your spec and your pre-made group's specs and how they work best together and coordinated attacks and defenses. This turns PvP up to 10 compared to previous games I have played and is alot of fun. PvP endgame is all about the prestige and favor that gets you soul unlocks and sweet gear upgrades. Totally worth buying the game for this content alone.

 

2) Then there is the PvE endgame. OMG....this stuff is pretty brutal (challenging). Expert dungeons are no joke and the mobs hit like trucks. Have to really be on your A-game to get thru these dungeons.  I have been in a few world raids which were also alot of fun. Our guild is just now starting to get several 50th level characters so we will start working towards the better gears. It will be great to start getting some of the toughness gears and other fun purple gears.

1. All the warfronts? You mean, now I can play all the WF's I've already played to death for the previous 1-49 level's, bar one, which is the lamest of the bunch? And now I can grind these warfronts for PVP gear, which is terrible in comparison to PVE gear.

And premade's, yes, except there's no pre-made queue, or option. But if you do manage to get a group (not a raid) into a WF together, the opposing team will more than likely be a PUG, and where's the fun in that?

TLDR: grinding WF's for redundant PVP gear is definitely not worth buying this game for.

2. Oh yay, another grind! Man, this game is revolutionary! Expert dungeons you say? You mean, now I'm 50 I can re-do the same dungeon's I did for the past 49 levels, except at a higher difficulty? Brilliant!!!!!

The only thing challenging about these dungeons is finding a group.

TLDR: ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Originally posted by ormstunga

Originally posted by Arentas

The PvP isn't better.  It's not really even close  This is mostly because WoWs combat engine is smoother.  Plus, its balance is better... which really is sad.

He probably means the setting. WoW Arena is boring (opinion) and has nuffin to do with mmorpg, its more esports. WoW has no world pvp to speak of. There is no insentive and also with all the phasing going on, there is also almost nobody around to fight.

edit: in response to your edit, WoW balance is like any mmorpg... kinda crap. Fotm teams in Arena. Paper-rock-scissor etc.

World PvP is a moot point since at cap, plenty of PvPers have stated that there is no reason to engage in world PvP in Rift. Endgame Rift PvP is entirely 100% Warfront based right now.