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News & Features Discussion  » Star Wars: The Old Republic: For Better or Worse

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238 posts found
  Yamota

Elite Member

Joined: 10/05/03
Posts: 6704

Gaming should be about fun, not gender equality.

4/06/11 5:43:44 AM#121

I completely disagree with the notion that good sandbox are next to impossible to do. Both UO and Asherons Call were excellent sandbox games.


The problem we have now is that there is not one single AAA sandbox MMORPG out there, so saying it is impossible to make a good sandbox MMORPG without even trying to put the money behind it is just silly.


Hopefully ArcheLord will shut all you nay sayers up.


  Karrion01

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/06/11
Posts: 1

4/06/11 5:46:21 AM#122

Wow, ok this guy is so full of it.  We need to pay for incomplete, buggy, piece of junk games in order for them to develop into something worth playing.   That's the biggest pile I have ever heard.   The only reason that developers even try to launch games that are under developed is because a great deal of people have bought into this mentality. 


Think about it this way, would you go out and buy a car that was incomplete, just because the manufacturer needed your money in order to finish building it? No that's rediculous.


But hey, yea I once was dumb enough to do just what this guy suggested we do with "sandbox" games.  Problem ended up being that the developer/publisher didn't bother sticking with the original design of the game and tried thier best to turn it into a wow clone, all in an effort to shut the massive amount of whining about the incomplete and unpolished state of the game up.


Sad part of it is, if they had stuck to thier guns and finished up the game as it was originally designed instead of listening to the massive amount of whining, that game would have turned into probably the best and longest running sandbox mmo out there.  I most certainly would still be paying for 6 accounts.


Sw:Tor, big budget or not, will either live or die depending on just how polished and playable it is when they go live with it and just how much support the publishers give the player base. 


  Timacek

Novice Member

Joined: 4/12/06
Posts: 182

4/06/11 6:46:52 AM#123

sry this article is complete BS. What about UO and SWG (pre nge) etc. Also sandbox games are ten times more complex to make, because of course making the game more complex. Everyone can make non-laggy "polished" themepark, well, because everywhere are boundaries and limitations and what a fraction of independece is given to player is only an illusion.


  Otomox

Novice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 312

4/06/11 6:53:58 AM#124

Has the wtritter of the Article ever heared about ArcheAge. Thats probably the closest to perfect quality sanbox game we gonna get. If that fails Sandbox mmorpgs are doomed.


  kado2

Novice Member

Joined: 12/21/06
Posts: 80

4/06/11 7:07:51 AM#125

Thanks for writing this article, its honestly one of the most engaging gaming articles I've read in a while. I do think this game is going to change the MMO industry, but I don't necessarily agree with you on your assessment of Sandbox titles, you are of course allowed to have your own opinion however.

Retired: EVE, SWG, STO, EQ2, Ryzom, AO, LotRO, FFXI
Currently Awaiting: SWTOR, TSW, ArcheAge

  mirkrim

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/04
Posts: 69

4/06/11 7:29:40 AM#126

Fallen Earth's "everyone is a clone" premise turned me off from the start.


Earthrise looks interesting but I personally don't find shooter gameplay compelling enough to pay the monthly subscription fee.


EVE Online I tried back in 2007 and quit because I couldn't figure out the interface (or most of the game for that matter).  Last December I checked it out again and found it much improved.  I have been playing since.


In an ideal world we would all be made of money and could support sandbox games until they find their legs, regardless of whether we like the game.  But the entertainment industry is what it is; if people don't find it entertaining, they won't spend money on it.  I love gaming, but on the relative scale of things in life, it's ultimately trivial.


  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1229

4/06/11 7:39:09 AM#127

Lol, i think that SWTOR will have an effect on the MMO market as big as the self made SWG debacle combined with the up to that date most polished release of the at that time most anticipated Newcomer MMO from Blizzard had delivering the death blow to ambitioned sandbox games.
And how hobbyist approaches of small developers for extreme niche sandbox mmos and the social hook off having friends holding you back to move from your current mmo has let the big picture look as if there is not the smallest market for a sandbox mmo or even only sandbox elements in a themepark hybrid.

Worth to write an article about that?

PS: For Arch Age i fear the window of oportunity with all the big or interesting releases of mmos in the next few or many months (SWTOR, The Secret World, GW2, Tera?) will close for quite a time and keep even the intentionally interested player occupied with something else.

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
MWO Community Warfare - BETA Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yipq9vOTt-k

  GreenHell

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/05
Posts: 1342

4/06/11 8:57:43 AM#128

This is one of the few articles on this site that I have to agree with. TOR is the natural evolution of what the masses of todays MMORPG player wants. It might not be what I want or what you want but money is the key here.


WoW changed the industry to what it is today and I do believe that TOR will change the industry of  tomorrow.  For better or worse.


It really is simple to figure out. If it was a sandbox game that had 12 mil subs then TOR would have been a sandbox. The masses of mmo players just do not want to play a sandbox game. I dont really believe it would matter if the sandbox was polished or not.


The people who scream for sand box games on this forum and others are sadly the minority. Because of this there will probably never be a high budget AAA sandbox. It just isnt going to happen. Our only hope is that a competent small developer will be happy with much much smaller sub numbers and make something worth while and that the people who want this kind of game are patient enough to play and pay through the bugs, exploits, ..etc.


As far as TOR being a success or not only time will tell. I have to believe though being one of the most recognizable IP's in the world and having themepark game play pretty much secures this games spot as a heavy hitter with some crazy sub numbers. Just my opinion of course.


 

  gilgamesh9

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/10
Posts: 137

4/06/11 9:13:07 AM#129

Originally posted by purewitz



So in short, no. TOR will not be for everyone, its going to be a game for the Star Wars fan, that wants to live out those childhoood movie fantasies.



 


 


unless you wanted to be a hotshot fighter pilot or some badass smuggler who wanted to fly your own starship.  The one glaring blemish on SWTOR's design is that *&(#@ing rail shooter.


But if you wanted to be a jedi (without being able to slice off people's limbs), you should be just fine in swtor.


  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

4/06/11 9:25:41 AM#130
Originally posted by Stradden

Originally posted by Amannas



Now if you all saw this from any of us in here,any,you could have said 'what a troll'..How much worse could it be when someone working (he gets payed for this,salaries mean money,money means motive,yes even in here) in this site writes it? I'd say its big bad mojo trolling..cause in this case,they have a profit behind their reasoning. Why do i bother? Good point..except 3 years ago,we had something called Gamespot. Before it became the commercial pimp it is today. That's why. MAybe the first,but doesn't mean the last..You may flame me away now for being so critical of MMORPG's intentions here. I wish you well.



 

Yup. You've got me. Every single positive thing that is ever said on this site is actually done for cash. In reality we're all hate mongers who don't even really like games. In fact, we sit around our Tuscan Villa (bought by all of our awesome ill gotten gains) and do nothing but talk about how crappy games are.


I remember when I heard about that Gamestop incident and thought to myself: Man, I'd like to swim in a vault of money like Scrooge McDuck, so to hell with my eithical and standards. to hell with my long term career, I'm going to write only paid articles for awesomeness from now on. 


I just love living in a world where a person can't say a positive thing about anything without being accused of doing it for money. I love that people honestly think that myself and my profession are that shallow. It's awesome. Don't make me feel horrible at all.


Good thing I sold my principles long ago. Off to my money bin.

A well deserved reply. ;)

I think it is indeed ridiculous to be so suspecting. Still, if I am allowed: every time I use that kind of irony my posts are deleted and I get a warning for trolling. Just saying.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Elikal

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/09/06
Posts: 8067

“No path is darker then when your eyes are shut.” -Flemeth

4/06/11 9:30:32 AM#131
Originally posted by Timacek

sry this article is complete BS. What about UO and SWG (pre nge) etc. Also sandbox games are ten times more complex to make, because of course making the game more complex. Everyone can make non-laggy "polished" themepark, well, because everywhere are boundaries and limitations and what a fraction of independece is given to player is only an illusion.

Those examples are IMVPO bad ones.

UO was an experimental game throughout the first years. If you listen to Lord British's interviews you know this. UO wasn't the result of genius planning, it was simply because back then they had no clue! They didn't know heck and more stumbled along the process. The deveoplers of UO admitted that themselves many times how much of a mess UO was for the first years.

SWG wasn't much different. Pre-CU combat was a disaster, totally imbalanced, and SWG was a shell of a game that only lived because it was STAR WARS and people used to be WAAAAY more generous and forgiving than these days. It took a year until most features were in the game, and NO ONE these days would wait that long!

Sorry but you just see the past through pink glasses.

A forum is a place where people can discuss about different opinions. So what I don't get is, how people react offended when they come to a forum and then find... well different opinions. If a different opinion offends you, what are you even doing here?

  Dahlifyr

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/08
Posts: 145

4/06/11 9:38:07 AM#132

lol....Swtor!

  SBE1

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/06
Posts: 340

4/06/11 10:07:55 AM#133

I disagree with this article saying that players are to blame for lack of sand-box games.  The issue is that themepark MMOs are much easier to develop than a good sand-box.  Furthermore, sand-box MMOs have failed because they usually have FFA PvP, which is a niche market.  Other PvP games have failed because of imbalances in classes between factions and imbalances in population between factions.  This has led to developers shifting towards PvE storytelling that is upcoming in Star Wars. 


 


What people want is a sand-box game that isn't FFA PvP, has 3+ factions to balance out population issues in consentual PvP areas and nearly identical classes for each faction to eliminate class imbalances.  The only company currently developing a game close to this is GW2, whereby 1 server fights 2 other servers in open-world PvP zones.   I would suggest that the future of MMO development is either going to be if Star Wars can maintain a solid player population 1 year after launch or can Guild Wars 2.   I'm sure Star Wars will sell a lot of boxes, but I question the replayability of a game that is story based.  Furthermore, I have no idea how in the world PvP could possibly be balanced in Star Wars when you have force using players potentially fighting non-force using players.  Finally, the scoundrel is the healing class in Star Wars????  Strange things going on at Bioware.


  Thorqemada

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/30/04
Posts: 1229

4/06/11 11:13:48 AM#134


Originally posted by SBE1
I disagree with this article saying that players are to blame for lack of sand-box games.  The issue is that themepark MMOs are much easier to develop than a good sand-box.  Furthermore, sand-box MMOs have failed because they usually have FFA PvP, which is a niche market.  Other PvP games have failed because of imbalances in classes between factions and imbalances in population between factions.  This has led to developers shifting towards PvE storytelling that is upcoming in Star Wars.  What people want is a sand-box game that isn't FFA PvP, has 3+ factions to balance out population issues in consentual PvP areas and nearly identical classes for each faction to eliminate class imbalances.  The only company currently developing a game close to this is GW2, whereby 1 server fights 2 other servers in open-world PvP zones.   I would suggest that the future of MMO development is either going to be if Star Wars can maintain a solid player population 1 year after launch or can Guild Wars 2.   I'm sure Star Wars will sell a lot of boxes, but I question the replayability of a game that is story based.  Furthermore, I have no idea how in the world PvP could possibly be balanced in Star Wars when you have force using players potentially fighting non-force using players.  Finally, the scoundrel is the healing class in Star Wars????  Strange things going on at Bioware.

I agree to some points and disagree to others bcs of the monolithic approach.
Anything right with saying that sandboxes do not fail bcs they be sandboxes but also heavily for other reasons.
Though the absence of any story doesnt make it a good game but a game that lacks history, reason, motivation, foundation of things as even in a sandbox you dont start as the first ever human beeing.
Imho a real virtual world approach offers many different experiences including a rich lore that is told by the game itself in form of epic storyarcs that offer quest adventures, be it pve or be it pvp.

The big fault is to force people to do something they do not like and therefor close out potential customers instead of enrich the game with all the different aspects.
Concentration on a single aspect only works if there be very limited ressources and the very niche for your new mmo is unoccupied.
Well its a big mountain of work but done right it will pay off to offer a good mmorpg that contains features of both worlds puzzled together into an appealing big picture.
But you have to hit the window of oportunity and it does not open every time but once on five years maybe.

"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"

MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
MWO Community Warfare - BETA Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yipq9vOTt-k

  Jimmy562

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/12/06
Posts: 1100

4/06/11 11:30:37 AM#135
Originally posted by SBE1

I disagree with this article saying that players are to blame for lack of sand-box games.  The issue is that themepark MMOs are much easier to develop than a good sand-box.  Furthermore, sand-box MMOs have failed because they usually have FFA PvP, which is a niche market.  Other PvP games have failed because of imbalances in classes between factions and imbalances in population between factions.  This has led to developers shifting towards PvE storytelling that is upcoming in Star Wars. 


 


What people want is a sand-box game that isn't FFA PvP, has 3+ factions to balance out population issues in consentual PvP areas and nearly identical classes for each faction to eliminate class imbalances.  The only company currently developing a game close to this is GW2, whereby 1 server fights 2 other servers in open-world PvP zones.   I would suggest that the future of MMO development is either going to be if Star Wars can maintain a solid player population 1 year after launch or can Guild Wars 2.   I'm sure Star Wars will sell a lot of boxes, but I question the replayability of a game that is story based.  Furthermore, I have no idea how in the world PvP could possibly be balanced in Star Wars when you have force using players potentially fighting non-force using players.  Finally, the scoundrel is the healing class in Star Wars????  Strange things going on at Bioware.

Story is an additional pillar. The story doesn't remove anything from a normal MMO. Replayability will be no less, if not more than current MMO's as well as upcoming MMO's. (I say it may have more simply due to the fact each class has an entirely different story and the amount of choices that can completely change the outcome)

World PvP can be easily balanced between force users and non-force users.

Scoundrel is not THE healing class, I believe Smuggler, Consular and maybe trooper have healing spec's (for the republic). I also don't understand why exactly the Scoundrel being a healer is something to complain about. Pretty sure medical supplies and equipment are often smuggled in Star Wars.

  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

4/06/11 12:22:46 PM#136
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Arentas

The only problem with sandbox games is that they aren't developed with AAA budgets.  If anything, sandbox games are far more fun to just start out in because they are ripe with untapped opportunity.  

If, for instance, Blizzard developed a sandbox game and dumped hundred million into it, then that game would be extremely successful regardless of the fact that its a sandbox.  It's all about the money Lebowski.

The only reason themepark titles are prevalent is because Blizzard created a highly polished, quality, theme-park MMO... and because everyone is trying to copy it.

It's all about the quality of the product, not whether its a themepark or a sandbox.  And quality usually requires a lot of money.   

Eve is successful... not because its some sort of crazy anomaly amongst sandbox MMOs, but because its a polished, deep, well thought out, well designed game.

 

Games like Darkfall,  Mortal Online, etc are not doing exceptionally well because they are low budget products with lots of design flaws.  That's all there is to it.

Read this, and read it again Jon Wood. Read it it so much that it shows up in your dreams at night. This is the reason why there aren't any QUALITY sandbox games about or in production these days. If a company sank $100 million into a sandbox effort and polished it to the "d" as Trion did with Rift, you'd have a game that would do just as well or better than 95% of the "efforts" being made today.

But, neither you nor anyone on this site can name a sandbox MMO that has seen HALF of that investment amount put into it and worked on by a veteran team after 2004. Sure, we've seen half-baked attempts by a few companies whose only reason for making a sanbox attempt was that none of the big, budget capable AAA companies is doing it.

It's not as though I'm ignorant of the argument. It's just way too simplistic an argument to make. Of course the games would be better if they were better funded.

Here's the tough reality though:

No one is going to put that much money into developing a sandbox when sandboxes have, on the whole, been unsuccessful and not supported even by the players who claim to want them. We can flail our arms and jump up and down all we want and say we want it, but the fact and the statistics (which are what game companies actually pay attention to).

The article makes two very specific points:

First: No major investment is going to be made into a sandbox MMO unless the folks with the cash see that people will actually play them. and support them.

Second: Sandboxes, by their nautre, have to start small in order to properly grow to fit their audience. They can't just "spring forth" completely "finished".

The vicious circle is that any studio looking to make a sandbox, because they aren't going to have the large investment that comes with a theme park, is going to be forced to have a smaller development team and a shorter development cycle. It's simple business. As a result, the games that they're working on are smaller in scope and generally more buggy. In turn, players won't support it and the cycle begins again.

Look, you can hate on me all you want for saying it, but that doesn't make it any less true. It's not like Activision or EA is suddenly going to wake up one morning and go: Let's dump a bunch of money into a huge risk. That's not how ig companies with a lot of money work.

I want a good sandbox as much as anybody. It's what attracted me to MMOs in the first place. That said, I don't have blinders on as to hw the industry works and moves. Sometimes the truth sucks.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

4/06/11 12:39:56 PM#137
Originally posted by Stradden
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Arentas

The only problem with sandbox games is that they aren't developed with AAA budgets.  If anything, sandbox games are far more fun to just start out in because they are ripe with untapped opportunity.  

If, for instance, Blizzard developed a sandbox game and dumped hundred million into it, then that game would be extremely successful regardless of the fact that its a sandbox.  It's all about the money Lebowski.

The only reason themepark titles are prevalent is because Blizzard created a highly polished, quality, theme-park MMO... and because everyone is trying to copy it.

It's all about the quality of the product, not whether its a themepark or a sandbox.  And quality usually requires a lot of money.   

Eve is successful... not because its some sort of crazy anomaly amongst sandbox MMOs, but because its a polished, deep, well thought out, well designed game.

 

Games like Darkfall,  Mortal Online, etc are not doing exceptionally well because they are low budget products with lots of design flaws.  That's all there is to it.

Read this, and read it again Jon Wood. Read it it so much that it shows up in your dreams at night. This is the reason why there aren't any QUALITY sandbox games about or in production these days. If a company sank $100 million into a sandbox effort and polished it to the "d" as Trion did with Rift, you'd have a game that would do just as well or better than 95% of the "efforts" being made today.

But, neither you nor anyone on this site can name a sandbox MMO that has seen HALF of that investment amount put into it and worked on by a veteran team after 2004. Sure, we've seen half-baked attempts by a few companies whose only reason for making a sanbox attempt was that none of the big, budget capable AAA companies is doing it.

It's not as though I'm ignorant of the argument. It's just way too simplistic an argument to make. Of course the games would be better if they were better funded.

Here's the tough reality though:

No one is going to put that much money into developing a sandbox when sandboxes have, on the whole, been unsuccessful and not supported even by the players who claim to want them. We can flail our arms and jump up and down all we want and say we want it, but the fact and the statistics (which are what game companies actually pay attention to).

The article makes two very specific points:

First: No major investment is going to be made into a sandbox MMO unless the folks with the cash see that people will actually play them. and support them.

Second: Sandboxes, by their nautre, have to start small in order to properly grow to fit their audience. They can't just "spring forth" completely "finished".

The vicious circle is that any studio looking to make a sandbox, because they aren't going to have the large investment that comes with a theme park, is going to be forced to have a smaller development team and a shorter development cycle. It's simple business. As a result, the games that they're working on are smaller in scope and generally more buggy. In turn, players won't support it and the cycle begins again.

Look, you can hate on me all you want for saying it, but that doesn't make it any less true. It's not like Activision or EA is suddenly going to wake up one morning and go: Let's dump a bunch of money into a huge risk. That's not how ig companies with a lot of money work.

I want a good sandbox as much as anybody. It's what attracted me to MMOs in the first place. That said, I don't have blinders on as to hw the industry works and moves. Sometimes the truth sucks.

Yes your "argument" is much more detailed and complex /rolleyes. All mmo's start small and grow to fit their audience, it isnt just sandbox games. Im sorry but it isnt too much to expect mmo's large or small to release cleanly, its been done before by companies large and small.

You're semi correct when you say there wont be a major investment into a sandbox mmo but it has nothing to do with the success or failure of swtor. There wont be a major investment into a sandbox game until the market proves there is a audience to support one.

  Stradden

Managing Editor

Joined: 7/08/05
Posts: 6729

4/06/11 12:44:02 PM#138
Originally posted by finnmacool1
Originally posted by Stradden
Originally posted by Khalathwyr
Originally posted by Arentas

The only problem with sandbox games is that they aren't developed with AAA budgets.  If anything, sandbox games are far more fun to just start out in because they are ripe with untapped opportunity.  

If, for instance, Blizzard developed a sandbox game and dumped hundred million into it, then that game would be extremely successful regardless of the fact that its a sandbox.  It's all about the money Lebowski.

The only reason themepark titles are prevalent is because Blizzard created a highly polished, quality, theme-park MMO... and because everyone is trying to copy it.

It's all about the quality of the product, not whether its a themepark or a sandbox.  And quality usually requires a lot of money.   

Eve is successful... not because its some sort of crazy anomaly amongst sandbox MMOs, but because its a polished, deep, well thought out, well designed game.

 

Games like Darkfall,  Mortal Online, etc are not doing exceptionally well because they are low budget products with lots of design flaws.  That's all there is to it.

Read this, and read it again Jon Wood. Read it it so much that it shows up in your dreams at night. This is the reason why there aren't any QUALITY sandbox games about or in production these days. If a company sank $100 million into a sandbox effort and polished it to the "d" as Trion did with Rift, you'd have a game that would do just as well or better than 95% of the "efforts" being made today.

But, neither you nor anyone on this site can name a sandbox MMO that has seen HALF of that investment amount put into it and worked on by a veteran team after 2004. Sure, we've seen half-baked attempts by a few companies whose only reason for making a sanbox attempt was that none of the big, budget capable AAA companies is doing it.

It's not as though I'm ignorant of the argument. It's just way too simplistic an argument to make. Of course the games would be better if they were better funded.

Here's the tough reality though:

No one is going to put that much money into developing a sandbox when sandboxes have, on the whole, been unsuccessful and not supported even by the players who claim to want them. We can flail our arms and jump up and down all we want and say we want it, but the fact and the statistics (which are what game companies actually pay attention to).

The article makes two very specific points:

First: No major investment is going to be made into a sandbox MMO unless the folks with the cash see that people will actually play them. and support them.

Second: Sandboxes, by their nautre, have to start small in order to properly grow to fit their audience. They can't just "spring forth" completely "finished".

The vicious circle is that any studio looking to make a sandbox, because they aren't going to have the large investment that comes with a theme park, is going to be forced to have a smaller development team and a shorter development cycle. It's simple business. As a result, the games that they're working on are smaller in scope and generally more buggy. In turn, players won't support it and the cycle begins again.

Look, you can hate on me all you want for saying it, but that doesn't make it any less true. It's not like Activision or EA is suddenly going to wake up one morning and go: Let's dump a bunch of money into a huge risk. That's not how ig companies with a lot of money work.

I want a good sandbox as much as anybody. It's what attracted me to MMOs in the first place. That said, I don't have blinders on as to hw the industry works and moves. Sometimes the truth sucks.

Yes your "argument" is much more detailed and complex /rolleyes. All mmo's start small and grow to fit their audience, it isnt just sandbox games. Im sorry but it isnt too much to expect mmo's large or small to release cleanly, its been done before by companies large and small.

You're semi correct when you say there wont be a major investment into a sandbox mmo but it has nothing to do with the success or failure of swtor. There wont be a major investment into a sandbox game until the market proves there is a audience to support one.

Which has everthign to do with the success or failure of SWTOR. SWTOR, if it fails, will open the door to more investment in the smaller niche games, including sandboxes.

But hey, you're welcome to your own opinion.

Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17626

4/06/11 12:52:27 PM#139
Originally posted by askanison40
Originally posted by tank017
 

 Precisely ^ ^

 

You put it better than I could Sovrath.

That pretty much sums it up. And I TOTALLY agree. 

hmmm, maybe mmorpg.com can pay "me" to write an article...

Though after a while I'll have enough posts that they will legally have to give me stock in the site.

 

in any case "thanks"

  finnmacool1

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/11/06
Posts: 482

4/06/11 12:55:47 PM#140
Originally posted by jedi_night

Originally posted by Lobotomist



Question:




How many unpolished and half finished , theme park MMOs made it big ?




Answer:




None




Same as sandbox , theme park , or whatever else.




Game needs to be polished and finished to suceed.




 




Your theory fails



 

L O L...all I have to say.


 


You think WoW was polished and finished when it launched?  Day 1 you couldnt play due to the horrible rubberbanding..  And end game wasnt even in the game untill a few months down the line...it took 6 years for that game to get where it is today....no one can farely expect ANY new mmo to have the sort of polish that comes 6 years after launch.'


THAT...is why the MMO market is failing.. Consumers are stupid and their launch expectations are too high.  I'm not saying the game should be beta quality, but it shouldnt be years of development quality either.

More total nonsense. Issues at launch with wow were population related, they simply werent expecting the amount of interest in their game. I played a couple months after launch with zero bugs,rubberbanding, and little lag. That game was one of the most polished games ive ever played. Hate it for the graphics or the "easy mode" or the "welfare" epics, or anything remotely resembling reality but dont try to compare its launch to bug ridden,technical disaster, incomplete games released way too early.

Launch expectations are actually way too low atm. People are way too forgiving for companies pushing crap out the door before its ready. No one expects 100% bug free but there is no excuse for games being pushed out with game crashing major bugs and with the main core elements incomplete.

Lastly, mmo's are never "finished" and simply need to release with enough content to occupy the vast majority of players untill more content is added. There will always be those that race to the end and say 'what now'?

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