http://i54.tinypic.com/5pq0bp.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/foiuu1.jpg

Here's your link Kim

"to use any procedure to make it easier to obtain any instruction faster than through the ordinary course of play"

This in NO way applies to Keysynching programs. You are taking the individuals toons and making them into one toon. If they were one toon, then yes they would be doing everything X times faster then another player. This is where the problem is. A Multiboxer is a Player that plays multiple toons, not 5 toons that are 1 toon. Each individual toon is in no way obtaining instruction faster then the ordinary course of play.

This whole quote is specifically geared towards software with the intention of hacking, exp hacks, speed/latency hacks, gold hacks, that kinda thing. Obtaining any of these without using in game means. Each toon is performing independent actions at the normal speed/rate of gameplay. They are all controlled by one hand, using software to control them all easily. But this in no way makes them obtain things faster in game. The misinterpretation of this seems to be the major problem. For all you non multiboxers, I ask you to quit thinking of the toons as one entity and start thinking of them as individual toons. They all have there unique individual accounts, setups/configs, levels, looks, ect. They are ran by one person, but they themselves are not one toon. Which is where you all are making a bad distinction.

Why are multiboxers very effective in pvp?

Focus targeting: If many targets focus the same target it will die very quickly.

Focus Healing: If many characters focus heal the same toon, that toon will regain health very quickly.

All toons follow instruction: For the most part, lag latency and dc's aside, all the toons will follow the lead, they wont go off killing some random person or attacking the wrong target like many many toons will.

You're not losing to the Multiboxers, you're losing to there organized playstyle. We've more then once been way out numbered and through the use of teamspeak, ventrillo, ect been able to effectively take down much larger groups, do to our organized style of play. Having more toons, better gear/pvp jools only made us that more effective.

As you stated, there will be little to no changes to Ryzom's pvp. So you either adapt your pvp style to compensate, modify your political system, or just deal with it. Banning this form of play was a horrible move. Sure you made the smaller group now have power, but you just lost a major driving force behind the server. Congrats?

All that aside there is no official statement from the owners. CSR's, GM's ect in ryzom are volunteers. This is the only fact known to the community. There is no heirarchy posted, no person to defer to. And the actual owning company is impossible to contact. Until the actual owners come out and change the main website to specifically say this software is banned. I'm going to believe that it is all a play of personal biases from players, with GM powers. That being said, I will not play/resub until something is officially said on the policy by the owning company. Should they also not agree with it, I will understand, not support, the descision. Until then I will not resub. And alot of the other multiboxers wont either, just due to the drama invovled. Financially speaking you just lost most of the money your USA server made. Based on people observed to be active.

As for it being "unfair" that multiboxers can control more toons, because they can afford to pay for the other hardware, software whatever. LOL. Going along that line of logic, we should all be using identical machines, keyboards, mice, cpu's, monitors, internet speeds, and all have identical physical and mental capabilities to be able to play ;)... People with more money, time, and better hardware, will always have an  edge in any MMO, so get used to it. And Welcome to real world.

The whole situation is poorely handled. By a company who yet again is doing nothing for the game, other then bug fixing and releasing already developed content. The exact same thing Gameforge did.

Originally posted by Nazak

As for it being "unfair" that multiboxers can control more toons, because they can afford to pay for the other hardware, software whatever. LOL. Going along that line of logic, we should all be using identical machines, keyboards, mice, cpu's, monitors, internet speeds, and all have identical physical and mental capabilities to be able to play ;)... People with more money, time, and better hardware, will always have an  edge in any MMO, so get used to it. And Welcome to real world.

 

LOL it's so difficult to understand the point? keyclone and such softwre is unfair BECAUSE the ToS doesn't allow it.

Your private conversations with GM means nothing to me.

Do you think I would have not used keyclone if it was clearly allowed? ROFL i spent a lot of time alt tabbing between my 2 chars just to move stuff and do PvE stuff, mainly to use it as a rezzer, parked in a safe place, ready to rez just in case (never used in PvP because, without keyclone, it's IMPOSSIBLE to be effective in PvP) that sure I would like to use it, just to make things easier. OHHH, yes... EASIER. Surprised of such conclusion?

Also, it's the second time you speak about multiboxing with keyclone as something difficult to do. Can I LOL more? Do you think we are all stupid that we cannot make some macro for each char, configure keyclone and then go training a bit around? It seems you love being considered "a master".... a master of what?

FInally, It's not about money, man, do you think you are the only one rich people around? It's all about RULES.

I suggest you go play WoW. Keyclone is allowed and, anyway, with so many players, who cares? Go play WoW with your 5-6-7 chars automated with keyclone thanks your great art to make some macro, so everyone will be very happy.

You, because you can surprise some WoW newbie with your superior gameplay, and us, because we will be free from the bot infestation and can play the game following the RULES.

Well it's and endless circle lets just agree to disagree.

You're all anti multiboxing software advocates and the we are multiboxing advocates, It will be and endless battle of opinions vs opinions. I've played sense Nevrax days, and Jolt gm's allowed multiboxing software and so did gameforge gms, I wish I screen shotted tickets from back then, but i'm not one to hang onto data from years in the past. It's super great that they changed the form of gameplay I was used to and literally cut off half my toons after playing them for years, due to personal biases. Though I suggest quitting the personal attacks versus new players who disagree with you all, seen so many noobies leave because of such drama ;). I hope you realise this is why I and many others are playing other games, and why ryzom continues to lose loyal customers. Even your most loyal players have trouble logging on when they know they are going to get harrassed and shunned.

And for the love of god quit trying to say I was illegally using it. I asked they said it was OK. So i used the programs. Not my fault if your support team doesn't cross communicate. If a GM tells you it's ok to do something, you assume it's Ok, don't you?

And please try playing several toons, before you decide it's easy.  It's tough, unless you have 90% of them auto following healing, but then again, you all never watched my play if that's what you thought was the only thing I did. You may have seen other multi boxers due it but eh, all multiboxers are identical botters no? and you all are so amazingly adept at the use of keyclone, macro configuring, networks set up ect, that you know how long, and annoying the setup procedure and working out all the kinks is. And it was also so super easy to work them all to high skill levels, and gear them all up, I didn't take months of hard grinding (I'm being sarcastic for you foreign speakers :P ). I not now nor ever claim to be a master, In fact there were many other multiboxers in zom that were way more effective and better set up, Nitro for example. But you keep saying/implying my toons look like bots, so if i can play to the point all my toons look like they are ran by AI when they are not, I will take that as a compliment. :p

And gilga you misinterpreted my comment, it was a response to Kim, he said "most people can't afford... ect". I was just stating that's life, I am in no way rich, I ran multi subpar machines to handle a majority of my toons. So it's not like it's hard to do it.  Hell one of my Pc's was $50 from craigslist and could handle 2 clients, not like Ryzom is that super intensive by todays standards. But Nothing in terms of gaming online will ever be equal or ballanced, and I hope it never is, where would the challenge be?

Just in closing, congrats for banning software that no other mmo bans. I hope that you continue to inforce and create such rules, when one group gains power, until you're player base gets smaller and smaller, and you can sell the coding to the highest bidder. 

I'm sorry that was a bit mean but eh. You all need to be a little more open minded if you want to appeal to a larger gaming audience, instead of your small niche crew. And you harp on people you disagree with so much, that is pisses them off, in game and out.

I thank you all for the drama it gave me something interesting to talk and laugh about with guildies :). I hope you all have fun.

Originally posted by FreedomBlade

 

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Originally posted by Leagolx
Ive recently started playing ryzom and im really liking it but is it likely to shut down pretty soon or is it doing pretty well?

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Ryzom was and is utter trash. Talk about "snore me to sleep combat", this game is like all the EQ clones wrapped into one with some utter shit graphics on top of it.

Stay well clear.

If you'd played Ryzom enough, you'd also know about the dynamic harvesting system; the extremely intricate crafting recipe system; the dynamic Atys that has mobs that interact, seasons that change and mats that are only available during said seasons.  Sometimes you overlook the downfalls of a given game in order to enjoy the strengths it has. 

Originally posted by Kimmerin

Sure, that's why all healbots usually have been organised in tight group, cross-healing each other and mixed with a couple of single players, paying attention to dead healbots, if any of them ever got killed.

Changing the target of a given heal group from the main or leading toon to one of it's members is detrimental to the group itself, which is why downing one toon causes it's downfall.  It exposes a weakness within the team, as the main toon's Follows may break, which would cause the player to have to stop and reset the entirety of their team.  I never used Keyclone, and even I can see this. 

Originally posted by Kimmerin

Thank you! You just enlightened us all! Because we are just a bunch of noobs playing this game only for a week or so and having no clue about all tricky things like that. Thank you again, now we are gonna really start to kick butts. Sure thing, PvP in this game has nothing to do with numbers of participants and nuking or healing with use of action syncing software.

I never said anyone was a noob, only that strategy needed to be changed.  I also never said wins didn't have anything to do with the use of alts, as heal pods can make or break a fight.  However, being smart players when fighting said heal pods means more wins for an given faction.  This isn't a difficult concept.  Sending a single melee'er into the middle of a large heal pod is like sending a single mosquito into a crowd at a concert.  It's annoying, but something that is tolerable.  The damage done in a big group can be outhealed long before the melee'er causes it.  Do we all need to return to the 'Watch the Yubos' quest on Silan?  Take the time to study and learn your target.  Give some thought to how to down them.  It can and has been done. 

Originally posted by Nazak

You're not losing to the Multiboxers, you're losing to there organized playstyle. We've more then once been way out numbered and through the use of teamspeak, ventrillo, ect been able to effectively take down much larger groups, do to our organized style of play. Having more toons, better gear/pvp jools only made us that more effective.

 

Exactly my point!  Bringing an army of poorly equipped alts to an OP battle is detrimental to the strategy we built.  I attended a war in which 4 players, 3 with alts only 1 using Keyclone, took down an entire guild of 20+ players in a matter of minutes, and over and over, because the guild didn't believe in PvP gear.  We even used common spells, to make it more challenging, and eventually stripped off all of our armor, short jewels, to give the opposition a chance.  We still curb stomped them because they neglected the imporantance of gearing a toon well for PvP, and knowing their opponent.  Strategy, working together as a well oiled machine, makes PvP winnable.  The Karavan would change theirs mildly, and we would in turn change ours, starting with the heal pods, then the use of Ranged weaponry.  The problem is the changes in our strategem were never cause for changes in the Karavan's, which is why the wars became constant and losing battles. 

Originally posted by Nazak

And for the love of god quit trying to say I was illegally using it. I asked they said it was OK. So i used the programs. Not my fault if your support team doesn't cross communicate. If a GM tells you it's ok to do something, you assume it's Ok, don't you?

If we can't trust the CSR's to give us the correct information and make decisions properly, who are we to trust?!  Every piece of legalese is open to interpretation, which any good lawyer would argue.  The EULA is legalese.  The CSRs are responsible for giving a decisive and final answer to the situation, which in this case they did not and for years.  When they finally got around to dealing with it, they did it in such a poorly executed manner:  in the middle of a thread with an unrelated subject heading, and only after much player-lead debate on the subject.  They OK'd and ignored the practice until it became so contraversial that they could no longer do so, then issued a hasty 'We messed up' to shut down any further debate.  The CSRs lost nearly all my respect that day.  If they themselves OK'd the use of said software and felt the need to retract this decision, a proper and official thread should be made, an official statement given, so there can be no mistaking the outcome.  Now, a new player will have to hunt through obscure forum threads in order to find 'official information'?

I WAS a part of a very small, niche community game.  I never used Keyclone, but the way the whole situation was handled left a very sour taste in my mouth.  How can I play when I can't be sure that my play-style won't be outlawed if it becomes unpopular?  How can I play when the CSRs bend to public opinion?  When I know that 'new' content isn't really new, but broken, old content?  When the devs release FTP in order to combat the hemorragic way in which they've caused themselves to lose players?  It all makes that taste in my mouth even more sour.  I've unsubbed both of my toons becuase of it, and am extremely unlikely to return.  As someone who invested years into the development of her characters, raised support for and caused the creation of a new civ of player government, who left a stamp on Atys, this entire situation saddens me. 

I'm with Nazak here.  I'm done fighting this fight.  We've all commiserated over it, laughed about it and it's done for me now. 

Too many things to quote, so i just skip them and go stright to the point.

As for PvP tactics, lack of actual and motivated members cutting off variety of options. As example, while ago i suggested to use afflictions to counter launchers, we did a headcount of OA and DA masters and found out we had about three of them.

As for multiboxing issue. Basically, multiboxing means running a couple of clients and manually switching between them when needed. The more clients are running the more chances that multiboxer will mess up something or everything. Increase in dps and healing power is balanced out by the need to split up attention between all active toons. Now, multiboxers in Ryzom removed that drawback with whatever software they have been using and enjoyed the benefits. That won't be a problem if they used it only in PvE. It's up to you how you are bashing mobs, with one toon, or ten of them, manually or with use of some software. Sure you gain some advantages, like fast levelling or solo boss hunts, but again who cares. But when multiboxing with use of third party software is getting involved in player competition such as PvP, people may feel disappointed about that. No one cares how exactly it works and how many time and efforts you put in setting it up. You gain an advantage over players, not mobs or NPC, and use some external, not ingame, method for that. Most of reasonable people would consider that cheating. Enough said.

CSR's in Ryzom obviously underestimated this problem. And changed their minds in favor of the community. Shame on them. TI has perfectly demonstrated how use of external methods leads to ruining the game for other players. Thank them for this lesson - and ciao guys. Go play other games where owners care less about software and methods some players tend to use in order to win a game.

Kimerin you just accused other people about something you can not prove.

If you fear that same person will use 3-4 PC's or virtual machines against you just do not go to PvP zone. No matter which game. This is nearly impossble to track down or prove.

Originally posted by GODhack

Kimerin you just accused other people about something you can not prove.

If you fear that same person will use 3-4 PC's or virtual machines against you just do not go to PvP zone. No matter which game. This is nearly impossble to track down or prove.

You have not read the entire topic, otherwise you would have not posted this answer.

And Kimmerin is the last person to be accused to have worries going to do pvp anywhere.

>You have not read the entire topic, otherwise you would have not posted this answer.

No you are wrong too.

Originally posted by GODhack

>You have not read the entire topic, otherwise you would have not posted this answer.

No you are wrong too.

And from his posts I see too he is ultimate winner always: when he loses so it means others cheat... or at least recive orders to go and play his favorite game: "Go play other games where ...".

GodHack,

please go read the posts in this topic: people already admitted they used keyclone. The debate was about the argument if it was permitted or not.

The problem is that some people were allowed to use that software with private messages from csr. Of course, something related to the eula and tos must be always discussed publicly.

About Kimmerin, I'm not here to speak for someone else, because he can answer you directly if he want. Anyway we are people playing Ryzom since the beginning and sure we don't need any lesson about ryzom and gameplay from anyone.

We already proved our commitment with the game playing it for years and years.

I think you don't have all the required information from *both* sides to judge this question.

We don't need to prove anything because the people already admitted to use 3rdy party software. The debate was about the legitimity of this use. Debate that you can read in the previous posts of this topic (a bit OT from the original subject).

  was toying w/ the idea of resubbing to zom but couldnt find any info on the multibox issue other than that apparently it is now an issue.

  so thx for the breakdown of the situation fai, bin a while m8 ;)   good to know wg doesnt want my 4 accounts back on their books.

  an yea i did join this site jus to say that.

   bik

blah blah blah, this thread went to shite huh? lol