Hi,

I have a couple mmorpg ideas. However i would like to know what messures could be put inplace to protect my propertiy or copywright it?

Thanks in advance mellkor.

Nothing unless you get it published in *some* format and pay upwards of 2800 bucks to legally own the rights to the "universe" your IP takes place in. The name itself is another thing entirely, I'm fairly sure, so expect to pay more to copyright that as well. This is why publishers usually end up with the rights to this stuff though, because the average Joe ain't got the funds to do it himself... and they won't do it unless they see it making money, so if a publisher is willing to do something like this for you, then you have a good idea that it may actually go someplace.

you don't need to pay anything to 'protect your copyright' to begin with.  Write it, and it's yours.  You may later need to pay to defend it, however.

That being said... I'd bet money that nothing you have  come up with is going to be totally original anyway.  By keeping it to yourself, you're just limiting valuable feedback.

Even the big companies get their stuff stolen and steal from eachother.

M59->EQ->Wow->Rift...

People with good lawyers like JK Rowling (who herself ripped of Neil Gailmans "Books of magic" including the silly glasses and the owl) seems to be able to protect at least some of their ideas but unless you sell a lot of books or movies things are really bleak.

If you get a really good idea you can bet most other games will add it soon in a patch or next expansion.

Unfortunately that's the reality of it.

I've been in the same position before, creating worlds and ideas and putting them to paper.  But the fact is, as long as you write the ideas down, if someone does steal the ideas you can always take them to court when they make money off of it....... if you can prove it was your idea first. ;)

At the level the people on this forum will work on.   They will never need to worry about anything that comes close to idea theft, as essentially anyone in a position to do anything is more likely to A) have their own ideas B) borrow from a major idea/TM/brand.

Another thought you need to consider is that if an idea is truely innovative you'll have to shove it down peoples throats, do a little dance, give them a blessing or 10, and maybe possibly prove that you're related/not to them.

Look at Warhammer lore, then look at the original Warcraft lore. If you can find much difference between the 2, post back here, because there is virtually none. 

This goes to show, that all you have to do is change the letters around in some words, and you have a new IP. Blizzard tried to license the Warhammer IP for the original Warcraft games, but when they were turned down by Games Workshop, they continued with the game anyway. I wonder who's laughing now?

However, I would rest assured that nobody really cares about your MMORPG ideas. Every Tom Dick and Harry has their own ideas and some of them have the means to produce them. No idea is really better than any other idea, it's really all about the execution of that idea. Thinking that anyone is going to steal your ideas, without actually producing a product and making millions off of it, is a rather far fetched. 

Your game idea sucks, noone wants the idea

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_221/6582-Why-Your-Game-Idea-Sucks

Originally posted by Gemma

Your game idea sucks, noone wants the idea

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_221/6582-Why-Your-Game-Idea-Sucks

That has to be one of the most awesome articles I've ever read on the Escapist. I like it so much, I'm putting it in my signature.

Originally posted by Gemma

Your game idea sucks, noone wants the idea

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_221/6582-Why-Your-Game-Idea-Sucks

Huh, reading that article made me think... the guy who wrote Toejam & Earl ONLY has 100 game ideas?  Man, game developers sure are concise and good at keeping their idea list pruned. :(

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Gemma

Your game idea sucks, noone wants the idea

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_221/6582-Why-Your-Game-Idea-Sucks

Huh, reading that article made me think... the guy who wrote Toejam & Earl ONLY has 100 game ideas?  Man, game developers sure are concise and good at keeping their idea list pruned. :(

That was a great read, and totally makes me feel guilty of my first moments in this section, where I acted like my shit doesn't stink. I've completely gotten over that, realised that theft simply doesn't happen, and put up over a dozen concepts (on top of convincing others they might as well too). I guess that's the first phase of being a designer, having to get over yourself.

As for TJ&E's "idea list", I highly doubt that includes what is written on napkins during a creative bender. That's more along the lines of completely fleshed-out proof of concepts. I'm running over 50 atm, and that's a fraction of the actual "game ideas" I have had. I trim it down based on marketability, but it's gotten to the point where I really can't vouch for one over the other. My early ones are truly pet projects I would love to see to completion, but the later ones are just that much better due to practice. I wouldn't be butthurt over seeing any of them seeing the light of day as a real game, because there are other things I can do with the universe's themselves (books, screenplays and graphic novels - and nobody is going to steal those either).

Originally posted by GTwander

That was a great read, and totally makes me feel guilty of my first moments in this section, where I acted like my shit doesn't stink. I've completely gotten over that, realised that theft simply doesn't happen, and put up over a dozen concepts (on top of convincing others they might as well too).

 

I've actually known for a while that nobody is going to come steal my game design, but I kind of wish they would.  I mean, I could always point and say 'Hey!  Look, I got my game done, and I didn't have to do any work!'.  Plus, if I was extra lucky, they'd realize I'm the sort of fool they could make work more on the project without having to pay me any more than they do their janitor.

Meowhead.  Degrading himself for the convenience of others.  That's my motto!

Originally posted by ScrimMaltese

Look at Warhammer lore, then look at the original Warcraft lore. If you can find much difference between the 2, post back here, because there is virtually none. 

This goes to show, that all you have to do is change the letters around in some words, and you have a new IP. Blizzard tried to license the Warhammer IP for the original Warcraft games, but when they were turned down by Games Workshop, they continued with the game anyway. I wonder who's laughing now?

However, I would rest assured that nobody really cares about your MMORPG ideas. Every Tom Dick and Harry has their own ideas and some of them have the means to produce them. No idea is really better than any other idea, it's really all about the execution of that idea. Thinking that anyone is going to steal your ideas, without actually producing a product and making millions off of it, is a rather far fetched. 

have you actually read the whole warhammer lore?i read some and it is very different from warcraft .and has been going for way longer in books.read it you ll be surprised .some part of warhammer are in technopart of the galaxy(sgu style)other planet are so backward in time because everything was pretty much destroyed that they had to adapt their fighting style .etc frankly the lore in warhammer is very vast way bigger then warcraft in fact .only recently warcraft tried to copy warhammer lore (book)the mmo is only a very tiny part of the lore .if we putted eve,warcraft,call of duty together in the same mmo it would begin to look like warhammer lore(just begin )if i recall it goes forward and back in time also.

as for the ip protection idea!i wouldnt put too much effort in it!if it was me i would dev a game for microsoft browser thing or facebook.way more player.(probabably faster to dev too.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

as for the ip protection idea!i wouldnt put too much effort in it!if it was me i would dev a game for microsoft browser thing or facebook.way more player.(probabably faster to dev too.

Facebook-style games deserve their own thread... because they are eeeeevil.

Never has there been as serious of a game addiction than with the kind of games that *force* you to stop playing, and check in periodically. It's amazing imo, because you can only do so much in one sitting, then the game tells you to stop and come back later when it will let you play it a little more. It gets people to actually put up with it... even worse, it gets people to set aside actual time to check back in and handle this ridiculous business.

Yeah, I wish I thought of it first... I never played any of these facebook apps before, but I tried out Hemp Tycoon on AdultSwimGames.com for half a week. Then I figured out what was really going on, refused to go any further, but was in awe of it's deliciously evil tactics at hand. *muahaahha*

grin!yep give us a candy !went i have tasted it one lick take it back put it in a fridge in 3 hour give me another lick etc!hahaha !good thing its not smoking cause there would be some murder somewhere lol!

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by ScrimMaltese

Look at Warhammer lore, then look at the original Warcraft lore. If you can find much difference between the 2, post back here, because there is virtually none. 

This goes to show, that all you have to do is change the letters around in some words, and you have a new IP. Blizzard tried to license the Warhammer IP for the original Warcraft games, but when they were turned down by Games Workshop, they continued with the game anyway. I wonder who's laughing now?

However, I would rest assured that nobody really cares about your MMORPG ideas. Every Tom Dick and Harry has their own ideas and some of them have the means to produce them. No idea is really better than any other idea, it's really all about the execution of that idea. Thinking that anyone is going to steal your ideas, without actually producing a product and making millions off of it, is a rather far fetched. 

have you actually read the whole warhammer lore?i read some and it is very different from warcraft .and has been going for way longer in books.read it you ll be surprised .some part of warhammer are in technopart of the galaxy(sgu style)other planet are so backward in time because everything was pretty much destroyed that they had to adapt their fighting style .etc frankly the lore in warhammer is very vast way bigger then warcraft in fact .only recently warcraft tried to copy warhammer lore (book)the mmo is only a very tiny part of the lore .if we putted eve,warcraft,call of duty together in the same mmo it would begin to look like warhammer lore(just begin )if i recall it goes forward and back in time also.

as for the ip protection idea!i wouldnt put too much effort in it!if it was me i would dev a game for microsoft browser thing or facebook.way more player.(probabably faster to dev too.

They've diverged, but Warcraft was the bastard stepchild of a failed Warhammer RTS that Games Workshop reneged on. You're probably confusing Warhammer 40,000 and Warhammer Fantasy (which are as unrelated as Warcraft and Starcraft.) The original  Warcraft was a rip off of Warhammer Fantasy (just as Warhammer Fantasy was a rip off of all the fantasy before it.) Warhammer 40k is something else entirely, it's a transposition of gothic fantasy into a far future dystopian sci fi.

However yes, Warcraft is now a legitimate IP in it's own right thanks to years of cultivation by Blizzard.  Now the only thing they have in common are some general aesthetics which are not unique within the realm of Fantasy.

I have to admit, I'm a little disappointed in the path this thread went.  A person asks a legitimate question, and gets a couple basic answers and then everything diverts into another direction altogether. I guess that is the nature of forums. So sorry if I divert again.

I am also wondering about sharing ideas and how to insure that I maintain protection of the efforts that I've done.  I would think that the main thing to have is a completed work that can be documented and dated, but I honestly don't know if that is enough. I also don't know if asking here is going to reach anyone that actually would have a clue anyhow, but it's worth a shot. I want to discuss my ideas with people in the hopes that I will find more people to pool efforts with, however I don't want to simply watch my efforts be taken over by someone else.  Is there anyone that could offer advice other then give up? 

Ideas are quite litterally usesless, to create an awesome game the ideas will take you around 10 manhours.   maybe 20 to create a fuly fleshed out system.

Where it matters is implementation.   You start counting time here in man-months and eventualy in years.   This is what is valueable.   Even some simple like a solitare re-implentation for a phone app has time counted in at least a man month.

When you get to implementation what matters is that everyone is on the same "page".   someone treating the project seriously as an investment, is completely different than someone working on "proof of capability"(IE protfolios).   As a matter of fact their IP interests are around 160 to 180 degrees away from each other.

________

If you have "real" interest you could try books ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1584504927/ref=nosim/gamedev ), I haven't touched it for real but when it comes to legal advice it tends to be a hell of a lot cheapre to spend a few thousand on "real" advice before being surpriised.

And to be honest there are a few awesome legal packages that around a few hundred that have been prepared by real laweyers and reviewed, specially for game projects.  so the real cost for starting is a lot lower than almost any other bussiness "start".

Originally posted by ScrimMaltese

Look at Warhammer lore, then look at the original Warcraft lore. If you can find much difference between the 2, post back here, because there is virtually none. 

This goes to show, that all you have to do is change the letters around in some words, and you have a new IP. Blizzard tried to license the Warhammer IP for the original Warcraft games, but when they were turned down by Games Workshop, they continued with the game anyway. I wonder who's laughing now?

However, I would rest assured that nobody really cares about your MMORPG ideas. Every Tom Dick and Harry has their own ideas and some of them have the means to produce them. No idea is really better than any other idea, it's really all about the execution of that idea. Thinking that anyone is going to steal your ideas, without actually producing a product and making millions off of it, is a rather far fetched. 

Actually, that's because World of Warcraft was originally supposed to be World of Warhammer, but they lost the rights to use it, so they just changed the title.

But! Medieval Fantasy is Medieval Fantasy, and they all copy from each other. But, you don't see Tolkien stomping around his house, pouting about it... assuming he were alive.

No one wants your idea, no matter how awesome you think it is.

Still, the moment you have an idea, its yours. If, for some reason, you feel the need to take Blizzard, Bioware, or anyone else to court to claim they stole it, you just have to prove it... and good luck.

You can best protect your IP by copyrighting some article describing it in full detail. It costs about $35 to do so.

Go to www.copyright.gov to get it done online.

I suggest you look at other examples of copyrighted documents to get an idea of how you should organize and word them, because a typical design document rarely contains enough information to differentiate it from one or another video game or multimedia IP.

Copyrighting is more or less an easy way of getting your material published or notarized (which you should still do anyways). If you have a fear of people stealing your ideas by releasing information about them, those fears are unfounded. Actually, you should fear quite the opposite - the longer you wait to get your idea out there, the more likely it is that other people will do it before you.