First two dungeons, Defiant-side, so far I find that once I get quests to go with them, I'm a level or two higher than the dungeons warrant.  Worse, the quest offering are generally "green" items a couple of levels below the standard fare I am wearing.

I think they need to scale the dungeons a bit, make them tougher and maybe more enticing (i.e., blue gear).

(What am I saying?  This appears to me to be a one-time-through, stop-gap game that could flame out in two years as better offerings release.  Shame they married up exceptional armor and weapon graphics with a corny "ascended-you're-the-hero" theme.)

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  Sorry, but I fail to see the problem.  If they made your changes then everyone would be running around in all blues even more easily than they do now.  Blue gear should be less common than green and purple even more so.  As I said before the blue gear already drops off the dungeon bosses anyway.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

 What difference does it make if the loot comes from the quest or from the boss dropping it?  If you need better gear and you know dungeon bosses drop it there is your motivation.  Like I said before quests are just there to flesh out the story when it comes to dungeons, not reward you with epic loot.  That's what killing bosses is for.

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

 What difference does it make if the loot comes from the quest or from the boss dropping it?  If you need better gear and you know dungeon bosses drop it there is your motivation.  Like I said before quests are just there to flesh out the story when it comes to dungeons, not reward you with epic loot.  That's what killing bosses is for.

I don't want to argue.  I guess the point is I go into a dungeon for extra challenge and an opportunity at extra reward.  But when I feel I am almost too high in level for the dungeon, and the rewards are sort of lame, then I either showed up too late (in level) or the calibration of the level-to-dungeon challenge is off.

And as far as story goes, no one really cares about the stories; they never really have.

Normal versions of the dungeons are just there to help you level up. At 50 you can do expert versions of all dungeons and then you have some truly challenging encounters and purple/blue drops way better then anything else.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

 What difference does it make if the loot comes from the quest or from the boss dropping it?  If you need better gear and you know dungeon bosses drop it there is your motivation.  Like I said before quests are just there to flesh out the story when it comes to dungeons, not reward you with epic loot.  That's what killing bosses is for.

I don't want to argue.  I guess the point is I go into a dungeon for extra challenge and an opportunity at extra reward.  But when I feel I am almost too high in level for the dungeon, and the rewards are sort of lame, then I either showed up too late (in level) or the calibration of the level-to-dungeon challenge is off.

And as far as story goes, no one really cares about the stories; they never really have.

 Yeah no one cares about stories perhaps you should look into SWTOR it's the whole premise of their game....Anyway, as I said good rewards are still there off the boss drops.  All you have stated is the rewards for the quests aren't good enough.  That's fine.  Then run the dungeons for the boss drops and screw the quests that you don't care about anyway since story doesn't matter to you.

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

 What difference does it make if the loot comes from the quest or from the boss dropping it?  If you need better gear and you know dungeon bosses drop it there is your motivation.  Like I said before quests are just there to flesh out the story when it comes to dungeons, not reward you with epic loot.  That's what killing bosses is for.

I don't want to argue.  I guess the point is I go into a dungeon for extra challenge and an opportunity at extra reward.  But when I feel I am almost too high in level for the dungeon, and the rewards are sort of lame, then I either showed up too late (in level) or the calibration of the level-to-dungeon challenge is off.

And as far as story goes, no one really cares about the stories; they never really have.

 Yeah no one cares about stories perhaps you should look into SWTOR it's the whole premise of their game....Anyway, as I said good rewards are still there off the boss drops.  All you have stated is the rewards for the quests aren't good enough.  That's fine.  Then run the dungeons for the boss drops and screw the quests that you don't care about anyway since story doesn't matter to you.

When I say "story" doesn't mean anything, I am referring to "canned" stories.  Those suck, always have.

Now, real (real for the game) happenings that actively involve players and NPC's, such as faction and rifts, are pretty cool.  But NPC vs NPC drama that is just fluff has always been pretty meaningless and is a step backwards from roleplaying, IMO.

Back in the paper and pencil RPG days, everyone had to use their imaginations and sort of make stuff up.  Saying your village was raided by orcs, for example, just to create background, is "making stuff up".  But with the PC and graphics, you can sort of have the orcs actually raid a village, so the event is experienced and not so made up.

Newer MMO's are taking a few steps backwards and not taking full advantage of what PC gaming can deliver, which is a shared reality.

So, yeah, the storyline quest text is crap, pretty much, unless it has some tangible reality in the game world.

Now, back to my original post, what I am saying is by the time I discover or get quests for a dungeon, I'm sort of like 2 levels beyond it, it seems.  This would be like if you got to Westfall in WOW and were level 15, only to find Deadmines was some sort of level 12 dungeon.  I just think the dungeons, that I have seen, need to be notched up a bit in level.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

 What difference does it make if the loot comes from the quest or from the boss dropping it?  If you need better gear and you know dungeon bosses drop it there is your motivation.  Like I said before quests are just there to flesh out the story when it comes to dungeons, not reward you with epic loot.  That's what killing bosses is for.

I don't want to argue.  I guess the point is I go into a dungeon for extra challenge and an opportunity at extra reward.  But when I feel I am almost too high in level for the dungeon, and the rewards are sort of lame, then I either showed up too late (in level) or the calibration of the level-to-dungeon challenge is off.

And as far as story goes, no one really cares about the stories; they never really have.

 Yeah no one cares about stories perhaps you should look into SWTOR it's the whole premise of their game....Anyway, as I said good rewards are still there off the boss drops.  All you have stated is the rewards for the quests aren't good enough.  That's fine.  Then run the dungeons for the boss drops and screw the quests that you don't care about anyway since story doesn't matter to you.

When I say "story" doesn't mean anything, I am referring to "canned" stories.  Those suck, always have.

Now, real (real for the game) happenings that actively involve players and NPC's, such as faction and rifts, are pretty cool.  But NPC vs NPC drama that is just fluff has always been pretty meaningless and is a step backwards from roleplaying, IMO.

Back in the paper and pencil RPG days, everyone had to use their imaginations and sort of make stuff up.  Saying your village was raided by orcs, for example, just to create background, is "making stuff up".  But with the PC and graphics, you can sort of have the orcs actually raid a village, so the event is experienced and not so made up.

Newer MMO's are taking a few steps backwards and not taking full advantage of what PC gaming can deliver, which is a shared reality.

So, yeah, the storyline quest text is crap, pretty much, unless it has some tangible reality in the game world.

Now, back to my original post, what I am saying is by the time I discover or get quests for a dungeon, I'm sort of like 2 levels beyond it, it seems.  This would be like if you got to Westfall in WOW and were level 15, only to find Deadmines was some sort of level 12 dungeon.  I just think the dungeons, that I have seen, need to be notched up a bit in level.

 I'll agree the story in Rift is a bit canned to use your terminology, but the overall plot line that you express interest in continues through instances.  For example Alsbeth, the central figure in the current world event, plays a prominent role in the Freemarch and Gloamwood zones as well as the Darkening Deeps instance, etc.  Anyway I'm not trying to argue, I'm just saying some of what appears at first glance to be canned quest text unrelated to the story isn't.

Anyway, back to dungeons, I found the first one guardian side Rotf to be a bit on the easy side, but from DD on it was more challenging IMO.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

I don't want to argue.  I guess the point is I go into a dungeon for extra challenge and an opportunity at extra reward.  But when I feel I am almost too high in level for the dungeon, and the rewards are sort of lame, then I either showed up too late (in level) or the calibration of the level-to-dungeon challenge is off.

And as far as story goes, no one really cares about the stories; they never really have.

 You could always do something revolutionary like... oh.. go to the dungeon earlier so you aren't overleveled for it...

Heck you can enter a zone.. find the dungeon.. and just level up in them if thats what really knocks your socks off.  It's about choice.  You can level up running all the quests in the zone.. you can level up on RIFTS... you can level up on dungeons.. you can level up on PvP.  You can focus on one of them or run them all for variety.  If you are overleveled for the dungeons the obvious solution os to visit them earlier...

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

Originally posted by Nephaerius

So the quests should be changed to offer blue items and the bosses should all continue to drop blue items as they do now?  I don't see the problem.  The quests are just there to add some story to the dungeon not be your motivation to run it.

I think dungeon quests and bosses should drop blues, or at least greens that are competitive.  When I am equipped with mediocre gear that outclasses anything I'll get from a dungeon quest, kind of makes the dungeon moot or less enticing.

Does it really matter that much? Purpose of such quests is only one which is to show new player's where they can go now and what they can do. Real equipment is coming just from dungeon grind anyway. As for bosses they drop better stuff and what's more important in better amounts. Perhaps it's not that clear for levels below 25 but 40+ is another story.

Originally posted by ReallyNow10

First two dungeons, Defiant-side, so far I find that once I get quests to go with them, I'm a level or two higher than the dungeons warrant.  Worse, the quest offering are generally "green" items a couple of levels below the standard fare I am wearing.

I think they need to scale the dungeons a bit, make them tougher and maybe more enticing (i.e., blue gear).

(What am I saying?  This appears to me to be a one-time-through, stop-gap game that could flame out in two years as better offerings release.  Shame they married up exceptional armor and weapon graphics with a corny "ascended-you're-the-hero" theme.)

Typical modern MMO problem. You also level so fast that running dungeons below max level is annoying, you just level so it isn't challenging really fast.

In the old day it took you a day or two to level and there people could run a huge dungeon with it still being challenging.

Today you level so fast that most people just solo past all dungeons until the endgame. It is the same in most other MMOs as well.

The fact that quests and dungeons (below max level) often give you gear that is a few levels below you doesn't help either.

I have done the firsr couple of dungeons (both sides) and they are great fun even if you do them a couple of levels overleveled. Rift has too much content to "see and do all" (PVE, Rifting, PvP)  atleast into the 20s and you have to choose. I think this is no problem for the target audience of the game but it may be a problem for some,  I sometime hear from people that likes to play a lot and zoom through  levels "well that is to easy and that too". Unfortunately that comes from the way you play it is not due to bad game design.