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Originally posted by Sovrath

This is silly.
Though I will go on record as saying i have a litany of criticisms toward the game and that I think how they implemented the store is tacky, there are no game breaking, power buying "you must purchase with cash" items.
I had a few points so I got a morale potion. used it. It was good. But wasn't so ground breaking that I ever bought it again. And if players do want to get them the you can use your turbine points and not spend a dime.
Every player gets Turbine points. So just use them. You get them for playing the game or if you subscribe then you get an allotment each month.
Which means that over the course of play you will get enough points to spend in the "store" without ever paying a dime.
And calling people "fanboys" doesn't support your argument. If anything it weakens it.
You don't have to "pay" or get 2nd rate anything. One can make their way through the game and never open the store. I agree that adding legendary items with extra slots that are "only in the store" is suspect at first glance but as I said you get points anyways so use them on that if that's your thing.
The real shame is that they aren't available directly in game and one has to turn to a somewhat artificial vendor to get them.

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Again it's been only 7 months and already cash shop offer is highly debatable for being called fluff. Either way those "convenience" items just make my experience 2nd rate despite I subscribe. Some people like You don't care and some like I do. Calling that silly is not really better than calling all nitpicking at "pay to win" term fanboyism, touche ;)

You say I get points and that's fine, the thing is again subscription and so called hybrid model Turbine promised and stated. So I pay monthly and yet to get full experience I have to fork out extra cash or grind like in Your every F2P game. After all TP not differs that much from in game currency/items You sell in other F2P for cash shop items. So I really don't see any option of not spending a dime that wouldn't give me 2nd rate experience if I want to fully enjoy game in every aspect.

In P2P model I'm free to fully experience game without paying extra for quite useful in game items. In F2P I'm not paying monthly sub, and having possibility of having 2nd rate experience or buying cash shop items. Turbine got worse from those two while promising hybrid model with only fluff(for everyone) and content(for freebies) in cash shop.

Originally posted by crazynanny

 

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Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

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Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

 

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't LoTRO start out as a subscription game?  How can you get more P2W than that?  From what I've ever seen the VIPs (subscription people) have access to pretty much everything except some "fluff".  The extras that the VIPs get aren't necessary to win the game or to be competitive in PvP, etc.

I for one will never understand the people who pay a subscription fee for the privilege of playing a game, especially a game you have to buy just to install.  I prefer the model used by GW, etc.  You pay for the original game (or in some cases, not - like LoTRO) and play.  As you play, you may decide you want to reward the devs for making such a great game so you buy something from the store to enhance your experience.  In the case of GW, you spend the original amount, say $20 - $60 depending on the game and then you can buy things later to cosmetically enhance your experience or get some more storage.  In the most recent version of LoTRO, you dowload the game for free and work your way through it for free.  Then you decide if you want to enhance your experience you can pay for a couple of one time things or decide to pay every month.  With that setup, the players have much more control over the experience they want.  I can't find fault with that idea at all.

If you have that much of and issue with how the game is, maybe you are now bored with it and should maybe cancel your subscription?  Maybe you're to a point where you feel the game isn't worth the monthly fee anymore.  The simple solution would be to stop subscribing and move on to another game or become a premium player and only buy what you think might make the game fun for you again.

As for 2nd rate experience, I am F2P with that game and have seen or played many other P2P games that haven't impressed me as much as LoTRO has (WoW comes to mind right away).  I can't imagine that Turbine would risk alienating their subscribers by forcing them into a worse playing experience than they had before.  I'd be more likely to believe that the subscribers are either finally bored with the game and want to blame it on the F2P change or they are upset they have dished out so much money over the years (exponentially more than if they were P2W originally) only to have Turbine let in a "bunch of noobs who don't take the game seriously enough".

Originally posted by erictlewis

 

    All I continue seeing is more revamps to the lower level areas in order to keep the free to play guy playing.  Examples were the the reworks of the starting areas for all races, revamp of bree and lonlands, now the revamp to evendim. 

Revamp of old areas? Sure (and thanks God as I'm an altoholic).

But honestly, they did a new Raid cluster lately, which is indeed real fun and not mindless tank and spank, and comes in two Tier to avoid discouraging the more casual players from doing instances andon the other hand they gratified more Raiding oriented people.

Before this expac, I thought like you that they won't give us endgamers some love. Seems more is on the way with the next update, so for now I'm very happy.

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by crazynanny

 

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Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

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Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

 

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

 

 

 

I for one will never understand the people who pay a subscription fee for the privilege of playing a game, especially a game you have to buy just to install. 

This perception will continue to place you in long lines and the world will continue to view you in an unchanging manner.

Profitable companies can only produce a positive.  Making money is never a negative no matter what these posters continue to type.  Turbine should be commended for doing whatever it takes to stay profitable and continue producing a quality product to its customers.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

So how long before an "I Win" button goes up for sale? I played this game before F2P I went back for a short time. It should have died a natural death instead of this F2P crap. sad very sad.

Agree 100%. Played this game until autumn 2009 and it was going downhill very fast back then already. Prolly it will be like 500 bucks worth of Turbine points to defeat Saruman...

probably like 2k TP, equel to 20 euros...normal price for an expansion..but well see

As soon as any Game goes P2W then it must be time for any  genuine gamer to move on and find a new game to play.

Fluff itemshops to me are ok for that does not effect gameplay but anyone that has played a P2W mmo knows that know one can compete with P2W players.

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I will wait for the 'I have never spent a dime crowd to comment'.

Bla Bla ive never spent a dime but i recieve free items of my guildys, or they play with employees of the game company who recieve free itemshop items without their knowledge. Seen it, been there, never want to go back.

Originally posted by sibs4455

As soon as any Game goes P2W then it must be time for any  genuine gamer to move on and find a new game to play.

 

Fluff itemshops to me are ok for that does not effect gameplay but anyone that has played a P2W mmo knows that know one can compete with P2W players.

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I will wait for the 'I have never spent a dime crowd to comment'.

Bla Bla ive never spent a dime but i recieve free items of my guildys, or they play with employees of the game company who recieve free itemshop items without their knowledge. Seen it, been there, never want to go back.

I've never had any problem in that regard ^^ If I enjoy a "F2P" game, I always make a point of using the cash shop.  I want the Dev's to profit from their work. Thats the best way to make sure the game stays around.

Originally posted by mmoluva

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by crazynanny

 

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Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

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Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

 

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

 

 

 

I for one will never understand the people who pay a subscription fee for the privilege of playing a game, especially a game you have to buy just to install. 

 

This perception will continue to place you in long lines and the world will continue to view you in an unchanging manner.

Profitable companies can only produce a positive.  Making money is never a negative no matter what these posters continue to type.  Turbine should be commended for doing whatever it takes to stay profitable and continue producing a quality product to its customers.

Huh?  I'm not sure what long lines you're talking about and I couldn't care less what the world thinks of me anyway.

I don't have a problem with companies trying to make money.  That is the point of starting and running a company.  I don't have a problem with companies offering subscription fees to play their games.  I just don't understand the mentality of someone who would pay for those games over and over again to do something they would only have to pay once for and get close to (or the same) experience.

Another point of mine is that it has been shown over and over that a company can be profitable by making a game you don't have to pay a subscription for.  Arenanet has done that.  Turbine is showing they can do it also.  In fact, I would say that it looks as if the subscription fee model it beginning to go away.

Again, though, I don't care if a company wants to charge a sub fee to play their game.  I decide that I won't play it because of that.  I don't understand the people who do decide to pay the subscription fee.  That's my opinion because I think it's kind of odd that people would be willing to throw away their hard earned money that way.

I don't get this notion of people calling LOTRO a "Pay to Win" game because what exactly are you winning by paying? The only meaningful things paying players get are extra content and unlocks. There's nothing really gamebreaking there, since it's not as if the paying player has the upperhand in PvP, since free players can't even play LOTRO's garbage PvP. All the F2P thing has done is segregate the player base into; those who have content and those who do not.

I've played LOTRO quite moderately for a few months and have 2 lvl 30+ characters, with enough content to take them both to lvl 50+ and I haven't spent a penny. Sure it's annoying that I can't do all the instances & dungeons my kinship does, fully spec my toons the way I want or hold more then 2 gold. But I don't feel gimped compared to the guy spending the sub, since I can do the content I've got. So the game is not pay to win, since paying doesn't warrent a victory in anything.

okay here's clarification from someone who Actually plays the game. 

Legendary items are not purchasable in store. 2nd Age legendary items are obtainable from quests and from rep exchanges with the Lothlorien Elves for example.

The only things purchasable to enhance your traits (talents) or Legacy Slots (enhancements your legendary items provide you) are POINTS as in attribute points. That is all. Exchanging your legacies that provide mittigation, resistance control, or damage buffs to realms or specific spells must be leveled. That means EVERYone must level a legendary item that has the legacy they want to level 31 then deconstruct it.

Scrolls that enhance your items such as Delving/damage type enhancements are available from in game rep vendors and this doesn't take long to get Kindred with these factions. These aren't the endlessly impossible to become exalted anytime in the same 5 months type of rep grind you would find in say games like World of Warcraft for example that had to employ tabards to make rep grinding happen in the background it was so bad.

Armor sets cannot be bought in the store. You must craft, rep or raid for those.

Finally, the relics available in the store ARE limited, you cannot buy every relic you want in the store. There are a huge number of relics available only through crafting and only through the new combination techniques available in game.

So in summary, no you cannot pay to win, they did get closer with their newest update but you cannot do it with this model. They would have to add ALL of the items, enhancements, legacies, scrolls to the store for it to be pay to win.