Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Robsolf

I'd like to believe that.  I really would.  I loved NWN, and was disappointed when DDO decided to go with Eberron.  I knew Greyhawk, for whatever reason, wasn't in the cards, but NWN I had true hopes for, because Ebberon just never flew with me now matter how many flying ships it threw at me.

But I haven't seen anything come from Cryptic that leads me to believe that they've changed their philosophy for designing, creating, and implementing games.  Not a thing.

Lets make a deal: We wont preorder the game but at least sign up for the open beta and play it for at least one hour.

You got nothing to loose than but an afternoon.

Preordering it would be stupid but everyone deserves the benefit of a doubt, at least as long as it doesn't cost me money. :)

Consider it a deal!!!  And yep, to be honest, I'd planned on that, anyway.  :) 

As a rabid D&D fan, somebody who started playing over 20 years ago and continues to play both 4th edition (it's different - not bad) and Paizo's Patfinder 3.5 based D&D games today; I have to say that I am tickled pink.  I'll play both games if Neverwinter turns out to be as fun as DDO is for me.

I'm not thrilled with the F2P system of DDO but I will admit it brought new blood into the game, and all my friends who played the game because it WAS D&D based still pay a sub fee to get all the content, etc.  The most rabid fans of DDO are indeed usually people who are very familiar with the D&D ruleset.  It's... quite a bit different than any other MMO out there today.  As for it "not being a real MMO" - hogwash.  I play WoW as well and somehow it doesn't feel any more "immersive" to me to sit in one of the capital cities waiting for my battleground queue or my dungeon queue; which is how half if not more than half of the people on WoW play the game nowadays anyway.  

Truth be told, I actually interact with people more in DDO than I do in WoW.  "Heavily instanced" doesn't mean much anymore when everyone is doing "instances" even in the supposedly "massive" online games LIKE WoW.

So to answer the original question, will it "kill" DDO?  I don't know.  I'm looking forward to seeing another D&D game on the market, though, and I think 4th edition D&D is uiniquely suited to be ported to an MMO format in ways 3.5 never was and never will be.  (Even Turbine had to heavily modify 3.5 to get it to "fit" in an MMO setting.)

If it does "kill" DDO I'll play Neverwinter instead; but I have a feeling I'm going to end up with two subscriptions in the end. And that's fine with me.  Then again, I'm no Cryptic fan and if any game studio can kill a D&D game it's Cryptic...

I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach.  Competition is usually good, though.

Originally posted by Justarius1

As a rabid D&D fan, somebody who started playing over 20 years ago and continues to play both 4th edition (it's different - not bad) and Paizo's Patfinder 3.5 based D&D games today; I have to say that I am tickled pink.  I'll play both games if Neverwinter turns out to be as fun as DDO is for me.

 

I'm not thrilled with the F2P system of DDO but I will admit it brought new blood into the game, and all my friends who played the game because it WAS D&D based still pay a sub fee to get all the content, etc.  The most rabid fans of DDO are indeed usually people who are very familiar with the D&D ruleset.  It's... quite a bit different than any other MMO out there today.  As for it "not being a real MMO" - hogwash.  I play WoW as well and somehow it doesn't feel any more "immersive" to me to sit in one of the capital cities waiting for my battleground queue or my dungeon queue; which is how half if not more than half of the people on WoW play the game nowadays anyway.  

 

Truth be told, I actually interact with people more in DDO than I do in WoW.  "Heavily instanced" doesn't mean much anymore when everyone is doing "instances" even in the supposedly "massive" online games LIKE WoW.

 

So to answer the original question, will it "kill" DDO?  I don't know.  I'm looking forward to seeing another D&D game on the market, though, and I think 4th edition D&D is uiniquely suited to be ported to an MMO format in ways 3.5 never was and never will be.  (Even Turbine had to heavily modify 3.5 to get it to "fit" in an MMO setting.)

 

If it does "kill" DDO I'll play Neverwinter instead; but I have a feeling I'm going to end up with two subscriptions in the end. And that's fine with me.  Then again, I'm no Cryptic fan and if any game studio can kill a D&D game it's Cryptic...

 

I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach.  Competition is usually good, though.

 I know some people have used the DDO instances to bash the game but like you I do not find them a hinderance to community or social interaction. I do think a real MMO based on D&D could hurt DDO simply because they would both be aiming for the same target audience and Turbine has kind of a poor reputation with many D&D players for things they have done with DDO.

I still play DDO but if a new MMO came out that did D&D better I can see myself moving to that game.

I'd have to agree with the majority here when I saw Cryptic was the ones behind this project my instant reaction was "you've got to be joking?".  To be honest I think Turbine or better yet BioWare could do a better job, hell give Mythic a shot at it and despite WAR (though I sometimes enjoy WAR myself) I'm still certain they can do a better job!

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Justarius1

As a rabid D&D fan, somebody who started playing over 20 years ago and continues to play both 4th edition (it's different - not bad) and Paizo's Patfinder 3.5 based D&D games today; I have to say that I am tickled pink.  I'll play both games if Neverwinter turns out to be as fun as DDO is for me.

 

I'm not thrilled with the F2P system of DDO but I will admit it brought new blood into the game, and all my friends who played the game because it WAS D&D based still pay a sub fee to get all the content, etc.  The most rabid fans of DDO are indeed usually people who are very familiar with the D&D ruleset.  It's... quite a bit different than any other MMO out there today.  As for it "not being a real MMO" - hogwash.  I play WoW as well and somehow it doesn't feel any more "immersive" to me to sit in one of the capital cities waiting for my battleground queue or my dungeon queue; which is how half if not more than half of the people on WoW play the game nowadays anyway.  

 

Truth be told, I actually interact with people more in DDO than I do in WoW.  "Heavily instanced" doesn't mean much anymore when everyone is doing "instances" even in the supposedly "massive" online games LIKE WoW.

 

So to answer the original question, will it "kill" DDO?  I don't know.  I'm looking forward to seeing another D&D game on the market, though, and I think 4th edition D&D is uiniquely suited to be ported to an MMO format in ways 3.5 never was and never will be.  (Even Turbine had to heavily modify 3.5 to get it to "fit" in an MMO setting.)

 

If it does "kill" DDO I'll play Neverwinter instead; but I have a feeling I'm going to end up with two subscriptions in the end. And that's fine with me.  Then again, I'm no Cryptic fan and if any game studio can kill a D&D game it's Cryptic...

 

I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach.  Competition is usually good, though.

 I know some people have used the DDO instances to bash the game but like you I do not find them a hinderance to community or social interaction. I do think a real MMO based on D&D could hurt DDO simply because they would both be aiming for the same target audience and Turbine has kind of a poor reputation with many D&D players for things they have done with DDO.

 

I still play DDO but if a new MMO came out that did D&D better I can see myself moving to that game.

Well, I can see myself moving to a better D&D MMO also - but that's only a good thing for us.  If somebody (even Cryptic - heh) comes along and does what Turbine is trying to do better, it means one of two things:

a) Turbine tries harder to keep my business

b) I move to the other game...

Or if both games just rock my world -

c) I sub to both games.

:)

Originally posted by Justarius1

Originally posted by Rokurgepta

Originally posted by Justarius1

As a rabid D&D fan, somebody who started playing over 20 years ago and continues to play both 4th edition (it's different - not bad) and Paizo's Patfinder 3.5 based D&D games today; I have to say that I am tickled pink.  I'll play both games if Neverwinter turns out to be as fun as DDO is for me.

 

I'm not thrilled with the F2P system of DDO but I will admit it brought new blood into the game, and all my friends who played the game because it WAS D&D based still pay a sub fee to get all the content, etc.  The most rabid fans of DDO are indeed usually people who are very familiar with the D&D ruleset.  It's... quite a bit different than any other MMO out there today.  As for it "not being a real MMO" - hogwash.  I play WoW as well and somehow it doesn't feel any more "immersive" to me to sit in one of the capital cities waiting for my battleground queue or my dungeon queue; which is how half if not more than half of the people on WoW play the game nowadays anyway.  

 

Truth be told, I actually interact with people more in DDO than I do in WoW.  "Heavily instanced" doesn't mean much anymore when everyone is doing "instances" even in the supposedly "massive" online games LIKE WoW.

 

So to answer the original question, will it "kill" DDO?  I don't know.  I'm looking forward to seeing another D&D game on the market, though, and I think 4th edition D&D is uiniquely suited to be ported to an MMO format in ways 3.5 never was and never will be.  (Even Turbine had to heavily modify 3.5 to get it to "fit" in an MMO setting.)

 

If it does "kill" DDO I'll play Neverwinter instead; but I have a feeling I'm going to end up with two subscriptions in the end. And that's fine with me.  Then again, I'm no Cryptic fan and if any game studio can kill a D&D game it's Cryptic...

 

I'm adopting a "wait and see" approach.  Competition is usually good, though.

 I know some people have used the DDO instances to bash the game but like you I do not find them a hinderance to community or social interaction. I do think a real MMO based on D&D could hurt DDO simply because they would both be aiming for the same target audience and Turbine has kind of a poor reputation with many D&D players for things they have done with DDO.

 

I still play DDO but if a new MMO came out that did D&D better I can see myself moving to that game.

 

Well, I can see myself moving to a better D&D MMO also - but that's only a good thing for us.  If somebody (even Cryptic - heh) comes along and does what Turbine is trying to do better, it means one of two things:

 

a) Turbine tries harder to keep my business

 

b) I move to the other game...

 

Or if both games just rock my world -

 

c) I sub to both games.

 

:)

 After 5 years with Turbine I have a hard time seeing them reverse course and make (A) come true. They have been pretty consistant in making DDO easier and easier, which to me goes against D&D. I really hope for a great D&D MMO, I just do not think Turbine provides one that really lives up to what I want from D&D. This does not mean DDO is a bad MMO, it is a very good one.

to the op !it is a coop rpg not a mmorpg!big difference!

---

Originally posted by SaintViktor

---

Originally posted by Aconsar
Cryptic Studios you say?
 
I think we have your answer right there.

---

 Like Turbine is much better ?  To be honest though, this is more like the battle of the toilet bowl instead of the superbowl. Pick your poison! 

---

Quoted for Truth.

I was semi-interested in this since I played NWN1 for over 3 years on the Online servers. Thenl I read the part that Cryptic is developing it. Honestly, for anyone dumb enough to actually spend money on this, I won't feel sorry for them.

Cryptic is as close you can get to a MMO company that are scammers. I wouldn't trust them with anything or believe they will do anything close to doing it "right."

Originally posted by carrie01

Cryptic Studios is developing a D&D multiplayer online game based around Neverwinter and is basing the lore the game off the upcoming  R.A. Salvatore books, who is the author of many Forgotten Realms books and creator of the famous Drizzt Do'Urden. The game will be like DDO in a sense that it will be mostly instances, with some open areas for people to congregate in (from my understanding after reading an interview with the devs). Here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/neverwinter/news.html?sid=6274162&mode=previews

This is pretty big news, as we are finally getting an online D&D game based in Faerun. What does this mean for DDO? Do you think when Neverwinter launches it will significantly hurt DDO's population?

 

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/56744/Neverwinter-Online-Coming-in-2011

If it has the same pathetic feature where you can not sit and rest when there are no enemies around, then I will not even consider playing it.

Originally posted by drbaltazar

to the op !it is a coop rpg not a mmorpg!big difference!

Again, I see very little difference.  There is a public area where you interact with other characters (like WoW capital cities) and then you go into your instances - again, just like in WoW where you sit with your random dungeon finder/battleground queue until you're ready. 

I interact with more people in DDO than in WoW; by far.  I play both games.  I see very, very little difference in the "massively multiplayer" part of things.

Atari gave Neverwinter to Cryptic because they are now owned by Atari. Cryptic is now Atari's development studio.

Also, I have heard that Turbine has a contract with Atari that states that they can be only D&D mmorpg online. Hence, it would make sense that Cryptic and Atari are stressing that this game is NOT an mmorpg. But DDO isn't really a true mmorpg to begin with, so making a similar game and calling it an online co-op is easy to get away with.

Despite Cryptic's poor reputation, I still have faith, but only because I want to see the concept of the game succeed. Anywhow, I heard City of Heroes/Villians was a pretty good game? I never played it but it seems that everyone is judging Cryptic by their last two flops: Champions Online and Star Trek Online.

Also, Cryptic doesn't have to concentrate on making an MMO universe this time around and the heavy instancing (a common complaint about them) should be to their advantage. I think people picking up this game will already be aware of the format of open aeras to congregate in, and instances to quest in.

Oh, and in case anyone is interested in hearing about more D&D games, a new game that is going to be on PSN/XBLA called Daggerdale is coming soon: http://www.atari.com/games/dnd_daggerdale <--- lol, and it has online co-op! Wheehee!

Has any MMO killed another MMO? Ever?

Why do people keep asking this question?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Has any MMO killed another MMO? Ever?

 

Why do people keep asking this question?

WAR killed WAR... :P

nah its made by cryptic, I think people are going to be annoyed you only get 4 classes and 4 races and half a campaign all for full retail price.

This is a another cryptic rush job, they started the game last year and there going to finish it this year.

Originally posted by Robsolf

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Has any MMO killed another MMO? Ever?

 

Why do people keep asking this question?

WAR killed WAR... :P

ZING! :)

Cryptic have repeatedly stated that NWN will not be an MMO. Online CO-OP play, yes. MMO. no.

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by carrie01

Cryptic Studios is developing a D&D MMO based around Neverwinter and is employing R.A. Salvatore, author of many Forgotten Realms books and creator of the famous Drizzt Do'Urden, to create the lore for the game. The game will be like DDO in a sense that it will be based around a hub city.

This is pretty big news, as we are finally getting an online D&D game based in Faerun. What does this mean for DDO? Do you think when Neverwinter launches it will significantly hurt DDO's population?

 

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/56744/Neverwinter-Online-Coming-in-2011

If they manage to make Armor Class useful (something DDO has failed at to this day), I'm interested.  But if it continues to be based on the fundamentally flawed D&D core rules, I'm not hopeful.  I do prefer Faerun to Eberron though. 

Now if only someone would make a real leap and give me my damned Planescape-based MMO.  I've been waiting ages for the Lady of Pain's shadow to fall over me...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Replying to the above; I screwed up the quote box.

4th edition rules balance AC. Not only is AC not broken, but you cant ever be uber in all of AC, Fort, REf, and Will, and all four are handled like AC in 4th edition.

I hope Cryptic uses the 4E rules and does not alter them much. If they want to retain DND players they need to keep the mechanics true to 4E, in my opinion. 

 

For a computer game, I think 4E is ideal due to it being a more 'balanced' system mechanically than 3E/3.5E.

 

 

Originally posted by Justarius1

Again, I see very little difference.  There is a public area where you interact with other characters (like WoW capital cities) and then you go into your instances - again, just like in WoW where you sit with your random dungeon finder/battleground queue until you're ready. 

I interact with more people in DDO than in WoW; by far.  I play both games.  I see very, very little difference in the "massively multiplayer" part of things.

CORPG is a undercathegory to MMO. We split them up so it is easier to understand what type of MMO we are talking about. Sandbox and MMOFPS are two other types of MMOs.

Some people say that CORPGs are not MMOs because they don't have an open world but frankly do som sandbox people claim that themeparks aren't "real" MMOs as well, it is bullocks but we still use the term CORPG so people know exactly what type of game we are talking about, it is just to make things easier. :)

Back to topic: I actually think NWN can hurt DDO subscriber base seriously if it is good, but Cryptic aren't exactly known for polished qualty products and making a game like this in just 2 short years sounds a bit suspicious to me.

NWN is not a game that anyone should preorder before trying the beta, and don't fall for the usual "preorder = beta" trick, it is like the discount life time sub just before the release a trap. Of course might they have learned from their lessons, FR is almost impossible to F*** up but it still isn't a smart preorder.

Originally posted by bill4747

4th edition rules balance AC. Not only is AC not broken, but you cant ever be uber in all of AC, Fort, REf, and Will, and all four are handled like AC in 4th edition.

I hope Cryptic uses the 4E rules and does not alter them much. If they want to retain DND players they need to keep the mechanics true to 4E, in my opinion. 

For a computer game, I think 4E is ideal due to it being a more 'balanced' system mechanically than 3E/3.5E.

I disagree. As an old AD&D player I think 4th edition is the worst D&D edition ever. I rather go back to 2nd edition AD&D myself than that. I can live with 3rd edition but DDO didn't implement it right.

And I really don't like what they done to Forgotten realms lately either. It was getting more and more interesting when they suddenly just killed off the setting.

I can't really say that D&D is the best pen and paper mechanics, in fact it is one of the worst I played even if I had many hours of fun in it. Balance never been one of D&Ds strong points and few P&P games have as unrealistic mechanics (Warhammer FRPG and Runequest have a lot more realistic mechanics) and I am not that happy that every single MMO uses variations of those basic mechanics but done right can D&D be fun.

4 edition is however just flirting with Wow players.