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Lord of the Rings Online

Lord of the Rings Online 

General Discussion  » pay to win epidemic

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71 posts found
  Mouls

Novice Member

Joined: 2/23/08
Posts: 86

3/28/11 7:08:43 PM#41

P2W is RoM and Allods

LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)

whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.

  Cecropia

Gumshoe

Joined: 3/06/09
Posts: 3302

Poacher killer.

3/28/11 7:28:34 PM#42
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by DarkPony
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

Amen to that.

Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

It is a very rich world even without the known story.

I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

 

Yes, thats what LOTR *really* needs... A good helping of free for all full loot, ganking and griefing...

Right, cause the IP has been finely tuned to make for the perfect themepark mmo ;)

Hopefully the IP is freed up sooner than later. This universe could be the foundation for one hell of an mmo. An abominable F2P themepark, not so much.

"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

3/29/11 11:27:52 AM#43


Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.


Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17530

3/29/11 12:43:54 PM#44
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.



Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

 

This is silly.

Though I will go on record as saying i have a litany of criticisms toward the game and that I think how they implemented the store is tacky, there are no game breaking, power buying "you must purchase with cash" items.

I had a few points so I got a morale potion. used it. It was good. But wasn't so ground breaking that I ever bought it again. And if players do want to get them the you can use your turbine points and not spend a dime.

Every player gets Turbine points. So just use them. You get them for playing the game or if you subscribe then you get an allotment each month.

Which means that over the course of play you will get enough points to spend in the "store" without ever paying a dime.

And calling people "fanboys" doesn't support your argument. If anything it weakens it.

You don't have to "pay" or get 2nd rate anything. One can make their way through the game and never open the store. I agree that adding legendary items with extra slots that are "only in the store" is suspect at first glance but as I said you get points anyways so use them on that if that's your thing.

The real shame is that they aren't available directly in game and one has to turn to a somewhat artificial vendor to get them.

  ThomasN7

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/07
Posts: 6672

"Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong.” - Mordin Solus

3/29/11 1:10:27 PM#45

They just trying to squeeze more out of their small community as much as possible before they head up promoting their new console mmo.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/29/11 6:31:46 PM#46
Originally posted by crazynanny

 


Originally posted by Mouls
P2W is RoM and Allods
LI is a boring grind in fact is P2NG(pay to not grind)
whats is p2w is the debuff removal pots(wich removes 3 debuffs),and the tomes wich are not big deal compared to what you find in others F2P.



Give em some time, after all store is only what, 7 months old? And You already discuss about selling stats, store exclusive best potions, scrolls. But wait, wasn't LOTRO meant to be hybrid? Aka either You pay as You go or sub? Store Turbine promised was meant to be fluff for subscribers and buyable content for free players.

 

Bottom line store and it's "pay to win" destroyed the game for me. No not because I win or lose something like fanboys like pick at. But because I either pay or get 2nd rate experience. More grind, worse pots, less stats, worse LI it's all about those tiny things that add together. And I guess it'd be okay if I wasn't already subscribing...

 

 

I always wonder about people, and their something for nothing attitude. These games cost a LOT of money to create, and they take still more money to operate and to expand.  I've never had any problem paying for a game that I enjoy. Especially in the ones that have a cash shop.  I *WANT* the Dev's to be rewarded for their hard work.  That way, the game is not only more likely to remain around, but be expanded upon.  

  User Deleted
3/29/11 7:35:56 PM#47

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

  User Deleted
3/29/11 7:41:43 PM#48
Originally posted by Cecropia
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by DarkPony
Originally posted by xx19kilosold

Hopefully this game meets a swift death so that someone down the line can make a game befitting of Tolkeins beautiful world.

Amen to that.

Next to having played this game before the F2P degradation, I used to do pen and paper Lotro years ago and always had a blast rp'ing in Middle Earth.

It is a very rich world even without the known story.

I hope the next Lotro will take place in another time frame and offer different factions to compete with in the world itself. (Similar to what SWTOR is doing with the Starwars IP).

 

Yes, thats what LOTR *really* needs... A good helping of free for all full loot, ganking and griefing...

Right, cause the IP has been finely tuned to make for the perfect themepark mmo ;)

Hopefully the IP is freed up sooner than later. This universe could be the foundation for one hell of an mmo. An abominable F2P themepark, not so much.

   Looks like you'll be waiting till 2015 then at the earliest...most likely at least 2017 though.  Have fun on that wait (and don't expect much different even if it does happen - since Turbine does have the support of ME)

  User Deleted
3/29/11 8:23:52 PM#49
Originally posted by Amannas

Barcrow's rundown is accurate,that is fact. It is also however very one-sided :)

We run and grinded and raided and farmed skirmishes for our LIs for years now..with no particular trouble..let alone that if you farm your mats for your profs while you level,if you do even less than half of the deeds,if you even only occasionally work the AH,by the time you are top,you will have more than enough money to just buy from AH,making money in Lotro is a joke..be it the item itself,or the mats you need to upgrade it/enrich it,won't go into details as some may not be familiar here, it is piss to acquire it. Bottom line is, no, you do not need the cash shop. It is there for those lacking patience, interest in the long run, or discipline enough to make themselves work for their gear. Its been clockwork for years before this [F2P},i will say again. And if this doesn't give people the right idea? Let me add just this more: Thsi game is so,but so easy to play,so non challenging compared to modern(ish) MMOS,it is a joke for hardcore players..joke.i love it,i been playing it for a long time now,but fact is fact..it is very easy. There is not much stopping you from getting to the top. Do not let it get into your heads that any of this cash shop things is an essential in order to be raid gear competitive,in order to solo the 'fat lewt' places,or whatever..far from it..It is in fact the easiest mmo i have ever played so far,and i been on all AAA mmos since daoc,barring only ff14. Lacking the money or will to buy from shop does not restrict in any way,whatsoever

Not playing LoTRO myself at the moment, though it is installed on my system in case I get the urge to log in and kick around a bit.

The only money I will ever spend on LoTRO will be for a subscription for the normal gameplay experience. "Thanks, but no thanks" is all I have to say to anything regarding cash shops.

Also... +1 for the Dreamfall avatar, Amannas :).

 

  Nemorsa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/01/08
Posts: 130

3/30/11 4:37:51 AM#50
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

The reason why a company like Turbine switches from a subscription service to a cash shop service is because continuing with only a subscription model is not viable in the long run, and could possibly lose the company money. They took a gamble with Dungeons and Dragons Online and it worked. Possibly Lord of the Rings Online was less of a gamble, but it was in the same situation, therefore a change was needed if Turbine wanted to keep the game running and making money. They are a company, like all companies they need to make money. What is the point of doing anything for the players if they aren't making money on it? In fact, they are doing it for the players, so they can keep the game running so we can keep playing. If that's greed than every company is greedy, because what's the point of having one if you are not making money? If you quit playing when they announced the switch to free to play, than of course they didn't do it for you, they did it for the people who love the game and are glad that it's surviving.

  Wraithone

Hard Core Member

Joined: 7/09/04
Posts: 3581

If you can't kill it, don't make it mad.

3/30/11 6:15:43 AM#51
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

 

I hate to break it to you, but the *vast* majority of Dev's and their companies are in this for the money.  Those who aren't, are not going to get very far.  So, what is this "greed" you speak of? Thats entirely subjective. As is "decent profit".  You are more than welcome to your opinion, and everyone should only play games they enjoy.  But lets not forget that these games cost a LOT of money to make.  There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

  Talin

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/04
Posts: 825

You only live once... make it count!

3/30/11 6:34:07 AM#52

If someone wants to buy themself the best items they can acquire with real money, in a non-competitive environment (such a LotRO), why is that such a bad thing?

People who condem this line of thought are unable to accept an alternate way of advancement. Perhaps some individuals are into the experience of the content, not about item drops or comparable, so they are willing to pay for the convenience factor. I'm sure at least some of these people want to enhance their ability to play solo. In either case, I don't see this as such a bad thing.

As long as content does not require players to purchase these items to be successful, it is merely a convenience for those who wish to pay for it.

  timeraider

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/20/11
Posts: 554

3/30/11 8:00:01 AM#53

ah well..every mmorpg...when theres any change..whine..every change thye make in an game is bad..why u think games get abbandoned after time? not becuz they rlly go bad..yust becuz people think its goes bad.

 

/vote for lotro

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/30/11 8:06:36 AM#54
Originally posted by Talin

If someone wants to buy themself the best items they can acquire with real money, in a non-competitive environment (such a LotRO), why is that such a bad thing?

People who condem this line of thought are unable to accept an alternate way of advancement. Perhaps some individuals are into the experience of the content, not about item drops or comparable, so they are willing to pay for the convenience factor. I'm sure at least some of these people want to enhance their ability to play solo. In either case, I don't see this as such a bad thing.

As long as content does not require players to purchase these items to be successful, it is merely a convenience for those who wish to pay for it.

Agreed.  If LotRO was a PvP game then i could probably see the concern, but as long as the actions and access of one player have very little effect on the actions and access of another, let people skittle it up for as mch as they want to spend to do so.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17530

3/30/11 8:10:00 AM#55
Originally posted by Talin

As long as content does not require players to purchase these items to be successful, it is merely a convenience for those who wish to pay for it.

I would say that

A, there is nothing in this game that requires anything in the store. and B, (which I've said before) the few items that seem a bit more efficacious such as those legendary items that have two extra slots, can be purchased with Turbine points which are earned in game.

Oh, it's tacky in my opinion but if players are patient and they want these things they can get them by just playing the game. If players are paying a sub then they get a monthly allotment of points.

All this store really does (so far) is make it attractive to pay a monthly sub.

  erictlewis

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

3/30/11 8:37:19 AM#56
Originally posted by Nemorsa
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

The reason why a company like Turbine switches from a subscription service to a cash shop service is because continuing with only a subscription model is not viable in the long run, and could possibly lose the company money. They took a gamble with Dungeons and Dragons Online and it worked. Possibly Lord of the Rings Online was less of a gamble, but it was in the same situation, therefore a change was needed if Turbine wanted to keep the game running and making money. They are a company, like all companies they need to make money. What is the point of doing anything for the players if they aren't making money on it? In fact, they are doing it for the players, so they can keep the game running so we can keep playing. If that's greed than every company is greedy, because what's the point of having one if you are not making money? If you quit playing when they announced the switch to free to play, than of course they didn't do it for you, they did it for the people who love the game and are glad that it's surviving.

 Actually no they did not do it for the folks who loved the game.  I know a lot of vip's life timers as we were once called who gave up on the game after it went free to play.   All I continue seeing is more revamps to the lower level areas in order to keep the free to play guy playing.  Examples were the the reworks of the starting areas for all races, revamp of bree and lonlands, now the revamp to evendim.  Sacrificing you vet base for the new guy.  Hoping folks continue to fund them via the store, as they sure were not funding them via a subscription.

Lotro now is a former shade of itself.

  Loktofeit

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

3/30/11 8:47:26 AM#57
Originally posted by erictlewis
Originally posted by Nemorsa
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

The reason why a company like Turbine switches from a subscription service to a cash shop service is because continuing with only a subscription model is not viable in the long run, and could possibly lose the company money. They took a gamble with Dungeons and Dragons Online and it worked. Possibly Lord of the Rings Online was less of a gamble, but it was in the same situation, therefore a change was needed if Turbine wanted to keep the game running and making money. They are a company, like all companies they need to make money. What is the point of doing anything for the players if they aren't making money on it? In fact, they are doing it for the players, so they can keep the game running so we can keep playing. If that's greed than every company is greedy, because what's the point of having one if you are not making money? If you quit playing when they announced the switch to free to play, than of course they didn't do it for you, they did it for the people who love the game and are glad that it's surviving.

 Actually no they did not do it for the folks who loved the game.  I know a lot of vip's life timers as we were once called who gave up on the game after it went free to play.   All I continue seeing is more revamps to the lower level areas in order to keep the free to play guy playing.  Examples were the the reworks of the starting areas for all races, revamp of bree and lonlands, now the revamp to evendim.  Sacrificing you vet base for the new guy.  Hoping folks continue to fund them via the store, as they sure were not funding them via a subscription.

Lotro now is a former shade of itself.

It sounds like they loved having something over other people and didn't necessarily love the game because, as you stated, the F2P change didn't alter anything about the veteran gameplay, just the new player area. That being the case, you still haven't presented an argument as to how the change was not for the folks that lvoe the game. The change gave them more people to play with, more options in how they pay for their gaming and even a FREE option if they wanted to keep playing but did not have the ability to continue paying a monthly fee for it, and  additional features they can opt to buy which is something that people who are really into their hobby or leisure activity often wish to do.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  erictlewis

Novice Member

Joined: 11/08/08
Posts: 3058

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

3/30/11 9:01:05 AM#58
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by erictlewis
Originally posted by Nemorsa
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

The reason why a company like Turbine switches from a subscription service to a cash shop service is because continuing with only a subscription model is not viable in the long run, and could possibly lose the company money. They took a gamble with Dungeons and Dragons Online and it worked. Possibly Lord of the Rings Online was less of a gamble, but it was in the same situation, therefore a change was needed if Turbine wanted to keep the game running and making money. They are a company, like all companies they need to make money. What is the point of doing anything for the players if they aren't making money on it? In fact, they are doing it for the players, so they can keep the game running so we can keep playing. If that's greed than every company is greedy, because what's the point of having one if you are not making money? If you quit playing when they announced the switch to free to play, than of course they didn't do it for you, they did it for the people who love the game and are glad that it's surviving.

 Actually no they did not do it for the folks who loved the game.  I know a lot of vip's life timers as we were once called who gave up on the game after it went free to play.   All I continue seeing is more revamps to the lower level areas in order to keep the free to play guy playing.  Examples were the the reworks of the starting areas for all races, revamp of bree and lonlands, now the revamp to evendim.  Sacrificing you vet base for the new guy.  Hoping folks continue to fund them via the store, as they sure were not funding them via a subscription.

Lotro now is a former shade of itself.

It sounds like they loved having something over other people and didn't necessarily love the game because, as you stated, the F2P change didn't alter anything about the veteran gameplay, just the new player area. That being the case, you still haven't presented an argument as to how the change was not for the folks that lvoe the game. The change gave them more people to play with, more options in how they pay for their gaming and even a FREE option if they wanted to keep playing but did not have the ability to continue paying a monthly fee for it, and  additional features they can opt to buy which is something that people who are really into their hobby or leisure activity often wish to do.

 There has been nothing as far as gameplay created for those of us who have yes all there alts at 65.  Endalwaith was a joke.  Yes we got a couple of books.   Other than that the game is stangnant at level cap, unless you enjoy running the same thing over and over and over.   The last real xpac we got was som and it was a joke.  The next xpac 2 years after the fact might be in december.  Meanwhile all the action is down at the lower level areas.

There has been several threads lately on the lotro forums basicly stating the fact taht the difference between vip/free to play has become slim to none.  There was a thread that went that way and somebody use the fanboy comment and called the guy a turbine employee that got that thread closed.

I guess it is all a matter of prespective.

  User Deleted
3/30/11 11:47:21 PM#59
Originally posted by Wraithone
Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Oh stop. these people make plenty of money without milking players for more with cash shops.

It boils down to greed, plain and simple. A decent profit isn't enough for these guys.

That's why I vote with my wallet. LOTRO lost my sub as soon as the F2P model was announced, and they will never get another penny from me.

I would rather support devs who make games for gamers, rather than devs who make games for corporate cash pigs.

 

I hate to break it to you, but the *vast* majority of Dev's and their companies are in this for the money.  Those who aren't, are not going to get very far.  So, what is this "greed" you speak of? Thats entirely subjective. As is "decent profit".  You are more than welcome to your opinion, and everyone should only play games they enjoy.  But lets not forget that these games cost a LOT of money to make.  There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

 yeah, OK, in it to make a profit.

There's a BIG difference between making a nice profit on a good game, and letting yourself get overcome with greed.

there are PLENTY of MMORPGs out there who are still going after many years, and have not sold out to the F2P fad. They're still making money.

And what is this free lunch you speak of? I think a $15 per month subscription fee, paid each month over the course of years MORE than pays for my "lunch", TYVFM.

Oh, and let's not forget the expansions we paid for. And the initial client purchase.

These people make PLENTY of money. don't kid yourself, and stop making excuses for GREEDY corporations who shit on their loyal customers.

Just ask SOE how that worked out for them.

  samuraislyr4

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 72

3/31/11 12:01:40 AM#60

There are a lot of odd responses to this F2P thing..

1) Some think because it is called F2P then they should not pay a dime for anything.

I think if this were the case then every game ever made would be free (this would be wonderful but a hopeless dream) but this point is not what this thread is about.

2) the in game store is pay to win

I really wonder about this one...pay to win what exactly? LOTRO stats hardly mattter, so a guy wants to pay some money to up his stats by a few points so what? You don't have to, you can earn it in game like everyone else.

Now when players start requiring stat tomes and stuff then it will be bad, but I haven't seen this so it doesn't much matter to me what others want to pay.

The game allows one to get from 1-65 in the same time as anyone else unless they pay for XP boosts which are really unneccesary anyway. You might have to pay for content (but is that so bad?)  or subscribe and get some bonuses.

It's nice to be able to step away from the game economy and use some of those 500 points a month I get to buy some extra potions or something when I need em (rarely but still nice to have the option).

I have never HAD to buy anything off the store to play the game, only what I wanted to make things cheaper or easier on myself, that's it.

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