If you want to make money, and I mean REAL money, you just have to charge for everything. In this, turbine learned from DDO (Dungeon and Dragons Online). In DDO, you really didn't need to buy anything but content, whether that be quest areas/races/classes. None of those, however, were essential to playing the game.

So, I finally downloaded LOTR with it's "F2P".

Immediately, at only level 10-12, I get a popup that tells me I have "destiny points" to spend. The only problem is, I can't spend them! The game doesn't let me. Everytime I click on it it sends me to the LOTR store for stuff unrelated to the destiny points. Finally, I googled it. Yes, I have "destiny points", but, those are only for SUBSCRIPTION players. Really turbine?

There are quest givers all over the place, but, I can't click on them because, as a F2P player, I can only have a few quests active at one time. If those quests require you be in a party, tough luck, either you complete them or abandon them so you CAN get more quests, hopefully that you CAN complete.

You get three inventory bags for free with two more you an "buy" to "unlock". Even at low level, you are simply inundated with junk being put into your bags filling them quickly. If you aren't willing to run to the nearest vendor every time you venture you to clear your bags you need to buy those extra spaces. Your choice - pay, ditch stuff, or endless "run-sell".

I don't mind paying for additional classes, races or content. But, turbine seems to have learned from DDO - if you make TOO much free, then people have no NEED to pay for things.

As I have written in other reviews, we know the "f2p business model" is designed to entice players into spending money. In many games, it is "pay for power" in a player-ver-player game. But, turbine's two leaders, DDO and LOTR, aren't player-v-player games. If you want additional content, races or classes, then fine, you pay for those. And, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Many games have gone to a mount/pet system. You want nice mounts or pets? Pay for them. Ok... if you REALLY want one.

But, come on turbine, you really are telling F2P players they have something (destiny points), but, you won't let them USE them because that is for subscription players only?

If we've seen anything in the gaming world of MMO's, it is companies working to make players spend more and more money for things. That isn't "F2p", btw.

Consider this gamers...

You can buy an XBOX game that has multi-player capability and never spend a dime for a subscription. Or, you can buy a retail box for an MMO, spend the same amount for the game, and you get a 30 "free trial" but after that you must pay every month for a subscription. Which is better?

Dungeon's and Dragon's Online has it's problems, no doubt. The biggest is the level cap of 20 which, if you play the game frequently, you will reach in a short time - especially as a power gamer. Turbine learned from that, as well, opening LOTR up to a much higher level cap. But, while you spend money in DDO to play as more exotic races, classes, or to open up more content not available to F2P players, you can still play the game, reach cap easily, and enjoy.

Sorry turbine, but I can buy an XBOX game that has multiplayer capability and doesn't try to suck me dry. Already there are numerous titles set to come out in 2011 - Mass Effect 3, Kingdom of Amular - among others.

i agree about the endless junk when i played though i saw next to noone anyway so it was really boring and that was when i did sub so its fun they would do that and run off any existing customers 

LotRO is a decent P2P game, but it's a sad excuse for F2P.

Sorry was not going to reply to this but your last few comments are wrong. Yes with Xbox you can buy the game and play it on your system co-op but not online with out a fee of $9.95 a month so your  wrong there and thats to play any Xbox game online. Now for your information Lotro can be played to max with just doing skirmish's and daily task or running instances after Lone Lands. Yes it will take a few months but can be done. Now I do agree with some of your other comments but you must understand they did learn alot from DDO it was there flagship to F2P or as some call it Fremium.

Well I know alot of people myself including that think Turbine has a good model for a buy to play content other f2p games that were p2p took there own way on it like EQ2x and Champions and did a ok job with it in my opinion. I myself play most of these titles for there pay scale and I play GW for it being b2p but I cant bring myself to sub after playing these f2p titles. But thats my choice to play this way and I only have to buy the new content I have all the character slots I need for the games and all the other stuff unlocked as of now. Well except EQ2x cause they lock gear and spells and most classes and races but I do have the ones I like unlocked for now.

But you are right to say these companys do use there cash shops to make money but they give players a chance to decide how they want to p2p not just force them into a sub. It gives the player the choice to choose f2p or p2p and to me that just seems to open these games up to alot more players. Alot of people think f2p games dont have big player bases but every f2p game I have ever played for lvl 1 to max always has people of all lvls in the game most areas of the game you can get a grp way easy then in most sub games. But point being f2p offers alot to people who want to ethier try it out and if they like it will most likely spend some money on it. I know I have spent my fair share on both p2p and f2p but choose the fremium model over most options on the market now.

I played both games at launch for about a year, then off and on over the last few.   I still play DDO sometimes, and I have spent real $$ in that game.

However, I tried to play Lotro since it went F2P and the limitations on my characters are utterly crippling.   If someone were to ask me if Lotro is F2P, my answer would be "barely".     There's no way I'd spend any real money in this game unless they ease up some other restrictions enough to make it worth playing.   

You guys have no imagination.  I spent $10 total, got to level 65 on burg and 52 on champ.  I have all expansions and 2500 turbine points left, which is probably close to what their new expansion will cost.  I got bored and stopped playing.

Granted, the $10 makes a huge difference, but that all you have to pay to get 90% of the game forever if you are smart and take your time to enjoy the game.

As noted, you can get to level 65 easily without paying a dime, but it ain't going to be as fun.  Bottomline is they give viable choices for completely free to play, partial pay to pay, or subscriber.

If you want to play like a subscriber, but do not want to pay anything...well, do you think that's reasonable?

It is really a rare gift in people who understand the making of choice, and acceptance of their choice.

Sorry OP...I think you either expect way too much immediately for free or you have a misunderstanding of what's really important in LotRO.  Either way I'll clarify a few things for you.

Destiny Points...they're next to useless up until max level for raiding.  All they get you are short duration temporary buffs, such as +run speed, +rest xp, +health/power etc. etc. and since the game is sooo easy most players don't even need or use them while leveling.  So, they defenitely aren't a necessity.

As for limitations on the number of quests you can have at any one time, guess what?  All players, even subscribers, have that limitation.  But guess what again?  Just by leveling that limit gets increased.  I think you start a new character off with a limit of 20 quests at a time, then for every 10 levels you gain you get another +5 added to the limit until you hit the max of 40 quests by like level 40 (if I recall all the numbers correctly).  If you're not happy with that then that is NOT a fault of the free-play model but rather a fault of the game's design itself.

The 3/5 bags thing I can agree with.  There really is too much filling your bags in LotRO but they're working on reducing all the inventory junk.  And, as for unlocking those 2 final bags, it's an account unlock.  Once you unlock them they're unlocked permanently for ALL your characters.

And now, most importantly, you totally neglected to mention anything about being able to earn FREE store points just by playing the game.  What this means, for anyone unfamiliar with the system, is that all these limitations can be removed relatively easily for free...all you gotta do is play the game.  Granted it will take some time and you gotta have patience but it's doable.  There were already posts by free players over the last couple months who've unlocked all content and limitations for free, who basically have a lifetime account now, and free-play has only been out 6 months now.  In fact I think that may be why LotRO has more limitations then DDO does...it's sooo much easier to earn free points in LotRO than in DDO.

If you want free and immediate access to everything right now all within your first month of playing...yeah, it's not gonna happen.  But if you enjoy the game and plan on playing it for the next year or more (long way to go, still, before we get to Mordor) then you can easily do it for free, inconvenient as some of it may be for the first couple months.

One final comment about the statement of level 20 being DDO's biggest flaw...That is NOT a flaw of DDO...it's a flaw of the actual D&D game since DDO is based on D&D.  It's like saying DC Universe Online's biggest flaw is that it's got superheroes in it.

Originally posted by KualaBD

Sorry OP...I think you either expect way too much immediately for free or you have a misunderstanding of what's really important in LotRO.  Either way I'll clarify a few things for you.

Destiny Points...they're next to useless up until max level for raiding.  All they get you are short duration temporary buffs, such as +run speed, +rest xp, +health/power etc. etc. and since the game is sooo easy most players don't even need or use them while leveling.  So, they defenitely aren't a necessity.

As for limitations on the number of quests you can have at any one time, guess what?  All players, even subscribers, have that limitation.  But guess what again?  Just by leveling that limit gets increased.  I think you start a new character off with a limit of 20 quests at a time, then for every 10 levels you gain you get another +5 added to the limit until you hit the max of 40 quests by like level 40 (if I recall all the numbers correctly).  If you're not happy with that then that is NOT a fault of the free-play model but rather a fault of the game's design itself.

The 3/5 bags thing I can agree with.  There really is too much filling your bags in LotRO but they're working on reducing all the inventory junk.  And, as for unlocking those 2 final bags, it's an account unlock.  Once you unlock them they're unlocked permanently for ALL your characters.

And now, most importantly, you totally neglected to mention anything about being able to earn FREE store points just by playing the game.  What this means, for anyone unfamiliar with the system, is that all these limitations can be removed relatively easily for free...all you gotta do is play the game.  Granted it will take some time and you gotta have patience but it's doable.  There were already posts by free players over the last couple months who've unlocked all content and limitations for free, who basically have a lifetime account now, and free-play has only been out 6 months now.  In fact I think that may be why LotRO has more limitations then DDO does...it's sooo much easier to earn free points in LotRO than in DDO.

If you want free and immediate access to everything right now all within your first month of playing...yeah, it's not gonna happen.  But if you enjoy the game and plan on playing it for the next year or more (long way to go, still, before we get to Mordor) then you can easily do it for free, inconvenient as some of it may be for the first couple months.

One final comment about the statement of level 20 being DDO's biggest flaw...That is NOT a flaw of DDO...it's a flaw of the actual D&D game since DDO is based on D&D.  It's like saying DC Universe Online's biggest flaw is that it's got superheroes in it.

 ^^ This, yes, absolutely correct, couldnt have said it better myself. OP read this one, all you ever wanted to know and more.

Lotro was always meant to be a P2P game.

It was an awesome P2P but they did not listen to player base as much as they should have and they lost tons of subscribers.  

the F2p gimick is no different from AoC f2p to lvl 20.    Its just meant to get new people in the door to subscribe.   Its got an ugly interface though so I dont see what they were thinking. 

The entire game needs an overhaul and A Rohan expansion with Mounted combat and more PvP.

LotrO is alot more free than DDO in my opinion and easier to get to level cap without paying.

Most in the OP is just wrong or nitpicking.

Kaocan, Kuala and Bansan have it.

Once again this comes down to expectation.

I only did the free thing until lv 23 or so.  Then I subbed.  I got to play enough of the game to see that it was worth paying for.  And 10 dollars a month (the price if you sub in 3 month blocks), is a paltry sum.  I've spent that much on a single drink, let alone fueling a passtime for a whole month.

I've not the time for LOTRO recently but in my experiences from p2p (great game) to freemium (Still good and here is why)

You can earn your TP playing the game normally and deeding. Nobody can complain about this. It's viable like the 10 buck guy I put a minimal investment in after it went f2p and I own the majority of content and classes. It can be done.

For me it was fun. I do tend to have a goldfarmer play style though.

If you dislike it sub or quit, I only say this because you are inheritly bugged by a fairly useless fluff feature. Even in sub I rarely spent d points. I kept em hoarded up for my....horde.

All in all LOTRO is a beaming example of how a f2p model if push with freemium should be. It allows through the ability to compare to a person who has paid plenty and with alts your TP goes wacky.

Now if you are an absolute free player (not even premium) what do you expect? Seriously? That all things handed to you should be without time or money? Spend ten bucks and remove many of those annoying caps on your character,otherwise stop your yammering and complaining it just sounds freeloader like.

This thread has made me miss LOTRO. Login time!

Originally posted by KualaBD

As for limitations on the number of quests you can have at any one time, guess what?  All players, even subscribers, have that limitation.  But guess what again?  Just by leveling that limit gets increased.  I think you start a new character off with a limit of 20 quests at a time, then for every 10 levels you gain you get another +5 added to the limit until you hit the max of 40 quests by like level 40 (if I recall all the numbers correctly).  If you're not happy with that then that is NOT a fault of the free-play model but rather a fault of the game's design itself.

You can unlock an additonal 10 quest slots for a max of 50, by completing masses of deeds.  Its been awhile since I last played, but I thik it was 1 more quest slot per every 50 deeds you had complete. {might have been less though}

Originally posted by Papadam

LotrO is alot more free than DDO in my opinion and easier to get to level cap without paying.

Most in the OP is just wrong or nitpicking.

I disagree, in DDO you really only need to purchase quest packs unless you want an extra race or class. In LOTRO you really need to pay for all your virtue slots, inventory bags, riding skill, gold cap removal, and quest packs. I think the OP is correct that they gave away too much with DDO. It's very feasible to have many characters in DDO, but having many characters in LOTRO you will have to spend a good deal of points on each character for the things I mentioned.

Originally posted by Redline65

Originally posted by Papadam

LotrO is alot more free than DDO in my opinion and easier to get to level cap without paying.

Most in the OP is just wrong or nitpicking.

I disagree, in DDO you really only need to purchase quest packs unless you want an extra race or class. In LOTRO you really need to pay for all your virtue slots, inventory bags, riding skill, gold cap removal, and quest packs. I think the OP is correct that they gave away too much with DDO. It's very feasible to have many characters in DDO, but having many characters in LOTRO you will have to spend a good deal of points on each character for the things I mentioned.

This is 100% correct.    DDO is much more free than Lotro.     You only have to create 3 or 4 characters and grind each to around level 3 and you'll have tons of points to spend on content.    Playing said content will earn you more points, that let you buy more content, etc.

Originally posted by Warvet

If you want to make money, and I mean REAL money, you just have to charge for everything. In this, turbine learned from DDO (Dungeon and Dragons Online). In DDO, you really didn't need to buy anything but content, whether that be quest areas/races/classes. None of those, however, were essential to playing the game.

So, I finally downloaded LOTR with it's "F2P".

Immediately, at only level 10-12, I get a popup that tells me I have "destiny points" to spend. The only problem is, I can't spend them! The game doesn't let me. Everytime I click on it it sends me to the LOTR store for stuff unrelated to the destiny points. Finally, I googled it. Yes, I have "destiny points", but, those are only for SUBSCRIPTION players. Really turbine?

There are quest givers all over the place, but, I can't click on them because, as a F2P player, I can only have a few quests active at one time. If those quests require you be in a party, tough luck, either you complete them or abandon them so you CAN get more quests, hopefully that you CAN complete.

You get three inventory bags for free with two more you an "buy" to "unlock". Even at low level, you are simply inundated with junk being put into your bags filling them quickly. If you aren't willing to run to the nearest vendor every time you venture you to clear your bags you need to buy those extra spaces. Your choice - pay, ditch stuff, or endless "run-sell".

I don't mind paying for additional classes, races or content. But, turbine seems to have learned from DDO - if you make TOO much free, then people have no NEED to pay for things.

As I have written in other reviews, we know the "f2p business model" is designed to entice players into spending money. In many games, it is "pay for power" in a player-ver-player game. But, turbine's two leaders, DDO and LOTR, aren't player-v-player games. If you want additional content, races or classes, then fine, you pay for those. And, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Many games have gone to a mount/pet system. You want nice mounts or pets? Pay for them. Ok... if you REALLY want one.

But, come on turbine, you really are telling F2P players they have something (destiny points), but, you won't let them USE them because that is for subscription players only?

If we've seen anything in the gaming world of MMO's, it is companies working to make players spend more and more money for things. That isn't "F2p", btw.

Consider this gamers...

You can buy an XBOX game that has multi-player capability and never spend a dime for a subscription. Or, you can buy a retail box for an MMO, spend the same amount for the game, and you get a 30 "free trial" but after that you must pay every month for a subscription. Which is better?

Dungeon's and Dragon's Online has it's problems, no doubt. The biggest is the level cap of 20 which, if you play the game frequently, you will reach in a short time - especially as a power gamer. Turbine learned from that, as well, opening LOTR up to a much higher level cap. But, while you spend money in DDO to play as more exotic races, classes, or to open up more content not available to F2P players, you can still play the game, reach cap easily, and enjoy.

Sorry turbine, but I can buy an XBOX game that has multiplayer capability and doesn't try to suck me dry. Already there are numerous titles set to come out in 2011 - Mass Effect 3, Kingdom of Amular - among others.

I agree with u mate.

In my opinion companies seem to be of very low inteligence.Maybe they were not gamers or they forgot how a gamer feels.

A gamer likes to pay for new content classes races or even expansions.

What a gamer dislikes is pay for power and restrictions to classes such as the destiny points you mentioned.

They dont understand that by seperating subscribers from free to play players is a big let down for everyone.

You want to charge players so you can earn money?do it but do it the way the gamer likes otherwise continue earning low.

Originally posted by Zefire

Originally posted by Warvet

If you want to make money, and I mean REAL money, you just have to charge for everything. In this, turbine learned from DDO (Dungeon and Dragons Online). In DDO, you really didn't need to buy anything but content, whether that be quest areas/races/classes. None of those, however, were essential to playing the game.

So, I finally downloaded LOTR with it's "F2P".

Immediately, at only level 10-12, I get a popup that tells me I have "destiny points" to spend. The only problem is, I can't spend them! The game doesn't let me. Everytime I click on it it sends me to the LOTR store for stuff unrelated to the destiny points. Finally, I googled it. Yes, I have "destiny points", but, those are only for SUBSCRIPTION players. Really turbine?

There are quest givers all over the place, but, I can't click on them because, as a F2P player, I can only have a few quests active at one time. If those quests require you be in a party, tough luck, either you complete them or abandon them so you CAN get more quests, hopefully that you CAN complete.

You get three inventory bags for free with two more you an "buy" to "unlock". Even at low level, you are simply inundated with junk being put into your bags filling them quickly. If you aren't willing to run to the nearest vendor every time you venture you to clear your bags you need to buy those extra spaces. Your choice - pay, ditch stuff, or endless "run-sell".

I don't mind paying for additional classes, races or content. But, turbine seems to have learned from DDO - if you make TOO much free, then people have no NEED to pay for things.

As I have written in other reviews, we know the "f2p business model" is designed to entice players into spending money. In many games, it is "pay for power" in a player-ver-player game. But, turbine's two leaders, DDO and LOTR, aren't player-v-player games. If you want additional content, races or classes, then fine, you pay for those. And, I don't see anyone complaining about that.

Many games have gone to a mount/pet system. You want nice mounts or pets? Pay for them. Ok... if you REALLY want one.

But, come on turbine, you really are telling F2P players they have something (destiny points), but, you won't let them USE them because that is for subscription players only?

If we've seen anything in the gaming world of MMO's, it is companies working to make players spend more and more money for things. That isn't "F2p", btw.

Consider this gamers...

You can buy an XBOX game that has multi-player capability and never spend a dime for a subscription. Or, you can buy a retail box for an MMO, spend the same amount for the game, and you get a 30 "free trial" but after that you must pay every month for a subscription. Which is better?

Dungeon's and Dragon's Online has it's problems, no doubt. The biggest is the level cap of 20 which, if you play the game frequently, you will reach in a short time - especially as a power gamer. Turbine learned from that, as well, opening LOTR up to a much higher level cap. But, while you spend money in DDO to play as more exotic races, classes, or to open up more content not available to F2P players, you can still play the game, reach cap easily, and enjoy.

Sorry turbine, but I can buy an XBOX game that has multiplayer capability and doesn't try to suck me dry. Already there are numerous titles set to come out in 2011 - Mass Effect 3, Kingdom of Amular - among others.

I agree with u mate.

In my opinion companies seem to be of very low inteligence.Maybe they were not gamers or they forgot how a gamer feels.

A gamer likes to pay for new content classes races or even expansions.

What a gamer dislikes is pay for power and restrictions to classes such as the destiny points you mentioned.

They dont understand that by seperating subscribers from free to play players is a big let down for everyone.

You want to charge players so you can earn money?do it but do it the way the gamer likes otherwise continue earning low.

You dont have a valid point at all , im sorry.  Your comparing xbox games to mmorpg.  Did you forget that Xbox charges for live? I know about the silver but ..... .  I look at like this f2p has its benifit. If your new to mmorpgs or looking to play a new one then you can play this game for FREE. If you dont like it , then you can walk away from it. As far as the DDO level cap it may be 20 , but each level you need to fill up four gauges to level . SO  in realilty once you hit 20 its like hitting level 80. Pretty clever.   This is the first mmorpg that gives  me a monthly reward for being a subscriber. Paying 3 months at a time is very convient.  I think the biggest misconception is that when a player sees Free to play that means they get everyting for free. But to what im was saying . With F2p your have that option to walk away with out paying a dime.  With Xbox your stuck with a possible crappy game  and money lost.

Originally posted by KualaBD

Sorry OP...I think you either expect way too much immediately for free or you have a misunderstanding of what's really important in LotRO.  Either way I'll clarify a few things for you.

Destiny Points...they're next to useless up until max level for raiding.  All they get you are short duration temporary buffs, such as +run speed, +rest xp, +health/power etc. etc. and since the game is sooo easy most players don't even need or use them while leveling.  So, they defenitely aren't a necessity.

As for limitations on the number of quests you can have at any one time, guess what?  All players, even subscribers, have that limitation.  But guess what again?  Just by leveling that limit gets increased.  I think you start a new character off with a limit of 20 quests at a time, then for every 10 levels you gain you get another +5 added to the limit until you hit the max of 40 quests by like level 40 (if I recall all the numbers correctly).  If you're not happy with that then that is NOT a fault of the free-play model but rather a fault of the game's design itself.

The 3/5 bags thing I can agree with.  There really is too much filling your bags in LotRO but they're working on reducing all the inventory junk.  And, as for unlocking those 2 final bags, it's an account unlock.  Once you unlock them they're unlocked permanently for ALL your characters.

And now, most importantly, you totally neglected to mention anything about being able to earn FREE store points just by playing the game.  What this means, for anyone unfamiliar with the system, is that all these limitations can be removed relatively easily for free...all you gotta do is play the game.  Granted it will take some time and you gotta have patience but it's doable.  There were already posts by free players over the last couple months who've unlocked all content and limitations for free, who basically have a lifetime account now, and free-play has only been out 6 months now.  In fact I think that may be why LotRO has more limitations then DDO does...it's sooo much easier to earn free points in LotRO than in DDO.

If you want free and immediate access to everything right now all within your first month of playing...yeah, it's not gonna happen.  But if you enjoy the game and plan on playing it for the next year or more (long way to go, still, before we get to Mordor) then you can easily do it for free, inconvenient as some of it may be for the first couple months.

One final comment about the statement of level 20 being DDO's biggest flaw...That is NOT a flaw of DDO...it's a flaw of the actual D&D game since DDO is based on D&D.  It's like saying DC Universe Online's biggest flaw is that it's got superheroes in it.

^

Everyone knows that none of the f2p games are free, but  I think this is probably the most affordable one and isn't nearly as much pay 2 win as most other f2p's.  You actually earn a lot of TP if you just play the game and do deeds, which you should anyway to advance your characters traits.

It is recommended to spend at least $5 for points to make your account 'premium' which raises your gold limit, unlocks more character slots, and I believe gives more access to the auction hall/trading.  

There are also 'shortcuts' you can take if you want to unlock things for your characters without spending a 'ton' of money. For example, if you subscribe for only one month and create your 5 characters and log in, all of them will retain the 5 bags, fully unlocked traits, and removed gold limit as well as you getting 500 tp for the months sub.

I prefer DDOs version of F2P compared to LOTROs and EQ2Xs.

DDOs seems fairer for some reason.