Trending Games | Landmark | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | Guild Wars 2 | Star Citizen

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,920,262 Users Online:0
Games:760  Posts:6,311,152
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Ninja Anime Pirates Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Grimrock 2 Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Overwatch Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Rebel Galaxy Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Conflict Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Triad Wars Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warriors World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Rift

Rift 

General Discussion  » I 'had' hope.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search
44 posts found
  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16835

3/23/11 12:23:23 PM#21
Originally posted by Meridion

This is a PvE game.

It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.

It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.

You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.

M

It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.

They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.

Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.

  gessekai332

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 882

3/23/11 12:31:40 PM#22

people who cancel their sub because their class got nerfed are really funny. god forbid you have to pay the paltry amount of gold to respec or learn to play a different way. mmorpgs are never permanently balanced or imbalanced, its an ongoing learning process. its especially great in rift because you have many different options to choose from in case your current spec gets the nerfbat. the only thing that would concern me is if people were screaming nerf and imba for weeks and the devs either turned a blind eye or just didnt care(like in WAR) because that shows how motivated the devs are in trying to improve upon there game. in trion's case, they are do far doing a great job (FYI my class has been nerfed once and is going to receive more nerfs next week but i'm fine with it if its for the sake of the game).

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  lizardbones

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10953

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

3/23/11 12:33:58 PM#23


Originally posted by Loke666


Originally posted by Meridion
This is a PvE game.
It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.
It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.
You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.
M


It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.
They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.
Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.



Trion added the bare minimum PvP you could add to the game and never, at any point, advertised the game as a PvP game*. They basically said, "It exists for those that want it". People who expect something to be there when it doesn't exist will be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you're talking about meaningful Rift PvP or ferrets with opposable thumbs. Unrealistic expectations will never make you happy.

* Unless you count the one sentence from a VP that was quickly retracted by people who actually knew better.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

  gessekai332

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 882

3/23/11 12:35:54 PM#24
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by Meridion

This is a PvE game.

It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.

It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.

You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.

M

It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.

They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.

Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.

GW was not free from its balance problems from the start. if you remember, they had to nerf things here and there a couple of months in. even until now they are constantly rebalancing things. it just goes to show you that you can never have a perfect balance in a game right from the start. whats important is if you keep on trying to balance and rebalance throughout the game's life.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  Meridion

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 1502

None of you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!

3/23/11 1:24:17 PM#25
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Loke666


Originally posted by Meridion
This is a PvE game.
It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.
It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.
You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.
M



It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.
They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.
Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.




Trion added the bare minimum PvP you could add to the game and never, at any point, advertised the game as a PvP game*. They basically said, "It exists for those that want it". People who expect something to be there when it doesn't exist will be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you're talking about meaningful Rift PvP or ferrets with opposable thumbs. Unrealistic expectations will never make you happy.

* Unless you count the one sentence from a VP that was quickly retracted by people who actually knew better.

 

Yea, I didn't follow the game as closely as most people I guess but I can't remember anybody ever adversiting this game as 'equally PvP and PvE'; At least my impression was always that the 'random' world invasions were the real bread and butter of Rift.

And really, that's about the only thing in the game that scratches the border to innovation. At least until you realize that the invasions have 0 persistent effect on anything in the gameworld because Trion obviously wanted the game to be competetive in the mass market segment. 

That's another discussion though, the world PvE _IS_ something new and grinding rifts can be fun with the right people and the right mindset. Of course though, when push comes to shove it's another theme park MMO lacking LotROs brilliance in lore and design, Age of Conans graphics and World of Warcrafts massive amount of content. It's still in the upper third of the 'MMORPG' pool...

M

EDIT: In this context I want to stress once more how the fact that worlds seem to get smaller instead of bigger since WoW is deeply disappointing; I thought seamless worlds with multiple racial starting areas and multiple major cities would become standard after WoW, but not one fantasy AAA title since then managed to deliver this? What's the problem there guys, monetary pressure to release early and develop as you go? I'm still waiting for WARs 6 capital cities...

  lokiboard

Novice Member

Joined: 1/12/06
Posts: 201

3/23/11 1:29:40 PM#26

Just reading your GOD stuff underneath.   What a wonderful god!

  jpnole

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/13/10
Posts: 1674

3/23/11 1:36:14 PM#27
Originally posted by Cik_Asalin

Re-read my post. Im not quitting just because of a nerf.  But this is yet another, for any intellectually honest mmo enthusiast that has really followed this game, but then again its' just me, another chink in the over lack of alot of little things that over-shadow their ability to launch a polished pve single-player-esque supposid massively-multiplayer game, aside from their huge miss on security.

 

I really had no intention on being disinterested in this game, particularly based on my months of supported though cautiously optimistic support of Rift.

Yes you are:

"nerfs are deeper than I'm willing to accept. "  - taken directly from your post.

  Darkheart00

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 529

3/23/11 2:28:10 PM#28
Originally posted by Meridion
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Loke666


Originally posted by Meridion
This is a PvE game.
It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.
It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.
You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.
M



It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.
They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.
Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.




Trion added the bare minimum PvP you could add to the game and never, at any point, advertised the game as a PvP game*. They basically said, "It exists for those that want it". People who expect something to be there when it doesn't exist will be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you're talking about meaningful Rift PvP or ferrets with opposable thumbs. Unrealistic expectations will never make you happy.

* Unless you count the one sentence from a VP that was quickly retracted by people who actually knew better.

 

Yea, I didn't follow the game as closely as most people I guess but I can't remember anybody ever adversiting this game as 'equally PvP and PvE'; At least my impression was always that the 'random' world invasions were the real bread and butter of Rift.

And really, that's about the only thing in the game that scratches the border to innovation. At least until you realize that the invasions have 0 persistent effect on anything in the gameworld because Trion obviously wanted the game to be competetive in the mass market segment. 

That's another discussion though, the world PvE _IS_ something new and grinding rifts can be fun with the right people and the right mindset. Of course though, when push comes to shove it's another theme park MMO lacking LotROs brilliance in lore and design, Age of Conans graphics and World of Warcrafts massive amount of content. It's still in the upper third of the 'MMORPG' pool...

M

EDIT: In this context I want to stress once more how the fact that worlds seem to get smaller instead of bigger since WoW is deeply disappointing; I thought seamless worlds with multiple racial starting areas and multiple major cities would become standard after WoW, but not one fantasy AAA title since then managed to deliver this? What's the problem there guys, monetary pressure to release early and develop as you go? I'm still waiting for WARs 6 capital cities...

You do realize creating all that content costs money? WoW was one of most expensive games ever created (100 million+) only years later was it suprassed by GTA. Also multiple starting areas and zones dilute population remember how empty Exodar area? for game like Rift zone population is key for rifts.

6 capital cities would have done nothing to save WAR heck one of the reasons the game failed was because there were 3 zones for each tier dilutes player population for PQs and RvR. i remember in tier 3s i went days without running into anyone.

  Angier2758

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/09
Posts: 1060

3/23/11 3:39:25 PM#29

Obviously if they up mage damage.. they should exclude chloro... since a) chloro is actually decent at its job and b) chloro's main problem in pvp is lack of any meaningful CC to get someone off them.......... so adding damage won't stop the ass kick train.

 

Chloro basically performs amazingly well in standoff type pvp/bigger fights. 

 

My brother plays a cleric and he basically heals and cc's people off me while dot up everything that moves, with him as my synthesis target. 

 

 

BTW the people who don't understand why people are angry they are proposng a nerf to this class... it was only strong when left alone and people stayed in the same area.  Also it was a different class on the MMO scene.. like the riftstalker.  If chloro is made out to be a sub par healer.. its effectively not a healer anymore... and you lose flavorful class :(

 

I really hate the tried and true cleric = heals mage/rogue = dps warrior = tank .... design :(

 

Mages healing and rogues tanking = good for the genre.

  Darkheart00

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 529

3/23/11 4:42:55 PM#30
Originally posted by Angier2758

Obviously if they up mage damage.. they should exclude chloro... since a) chloro is actually decent at its job and b) chloro's main problem in pvp is lack of any meaningful CC to get someone off them.......... so adding damage won't stop the ass kick train.

 

Chloro basically performs amazingly well in standoff type pvp/bigger fights. 

 

My brother plays a cleric and he basically heals and cc's people off me while dot up everything that moves, with him as my synthesis target. 

 

 

BTW the people who don't understand why people are angry they are proposng a nerf to this class... it was only strong when left alone and people stayed in the same area.  Also it was a different class on the MMO scene.. like the riftstalker.  If chloro is made out to be a sub par healer.. its effectively not a healer anymore... and you lose flavorful class :(

 

I really hate the tried and true cleric = heals mage/rogue = dps warrior = tank .... design :(

 

Mages healing and rogues tanking = good for the genre.

Problem with Chloro's was that they could AoE heal the whole group very effectively with minimal mana than any class right now in raid situations, most have said they would not mind reducing the aoe heals a bit in return if they increased, surviv and dps.

  Meridion

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/22/06
Posts: 1502

None of you understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!

3/23/11 4:55:17 PM#31
Originally posted by Darkheart00
Originally posted by Meridion
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Loke666


Originally posted by Meridion
This is a PvE game.
It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.
It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.
You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.
M



It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.
They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.
Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.




Trion added the bare minimum PvP you could add to the game and never, at any point, advertised the game as a PvP game*. They basically said, "It exists for those that want it". People who expect something to be there when it doesn't exist will be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you're talking about meaningful Rift PvP or ferrets with opposable thumbs. Unrealistic expectations will never make you happy.

* Unless you count the one sentence from a VP that was quickly retracted by people who actually knew better.

 

Yea, I didn't follow the game as closely as most people I guess but I can't remember anybody ever adversiting this game as 'equally PvP and PvE'; At least my impression was always that the 'random' world invasions were the real bread and butter of Rift.

And really, that's about the only thing in the game that scratches the border to innovation. At least until you realize that the invasions have 0 persistent effect on anything in the gameworld because Trion obviously wanted the game to be competetive in the mass market segment. 

That's another discussion though, the world PvE _IS_ something new and grinding rifts can be fun with the right people and the right mindset. Of course though, when push comes to shove it's another theme park MMO lacking LotROs brilliance in lore and design, Age of Conans graphics and World of Warcrafts massive amount of content. It's still in the upper third of the 'MMORPG' pool...

M

EDIT: In this context I want to stress once more how the fact that worlds seem to get smaller instead of bigger since WoW is deeply disappointing; I thought seamless worlds with multiple racial starting areas and multiple major cities would become standard after WoW, but not one fantasy AAA title since then managed to deliver this? What's the problem there guys, monetary pressure to release early and develop as you go? I'm still waiting for WARs 6 capital cities...

You do realize creating all that content costs money? WoW was one of most expensive games ever created (100 million+) only years later was it suprassed by GTA. Also multiple starting areas and zones dilute population remember how empty Exodar area? for game like Rift zone population is key for rifts.

6 capital cities would have done nothing to save WAR heck one of the reasons the game failed was because there were 3 zones for each tier dilutes player population for PQs and RvR. i remember in tier 3s i went days without running into anyone.

Yea well you know, most games before WoW featured multiple, if not capital, but multiple large cities. DaoC, SWG, UO, even Meridian 59; Was it too costly for the developers 'back then' (while back then is ridiculous since that was basically 10 years ago, not like the real 'back then' in the 50s or something) to implement this? Have three realms diluted DaoC population? Did massive landspace damage SWGs popularity before the CU-armageddon?

No; I think the mindset was different back then, people created an MMORPG with the idea of creating a world for players to adventure in. To achieve this people needed to feel attached to their race, have a home, etc. ... Blizzard knows this, to this very day, proven by the fact that they included seperate starting zones for the new races and giving formerly homeless ones a starting zone... 

In my opinion, and as much as I am far from an industry expert, I have played quite a bunch of these games for more than a decade now, the post-WoW AAA titles and formerly announced 'wowkillers' tanked because they failed to give the player the feeling of being in a world, part of a world, to give the races and classes the players have chosen identity and a certain concept. Part of what made LotRO so attractive was the fact that if you started a hobbit, you did hobbit things during your gameplay youth, as an elf, you did completely other things, etc. pp. 

Creating a world is not some random 'bonus' nobody care about. Most of the players I have played with during these years were identifying themselves with the character/race/class they had chosen; Taking this away is taking away a fundamental appeal of MMORPGs and pushing them towards sologames.

Rift is a prime example for this. You start off as a dwarf/elf/human/dark elf/giant or tuareg human. But neither faction nor race have any relevance. Nobody treats you different, no race specific locations, not even class specific quests. Even the dialogue rhetoric is flat to outright ridiculous, like an overexaggerated mockery of fantasy dialogue

'The circlet of arcane power, athlatuhep the wicket demon holds it in the lair of despair, he has slept, for thousands of years, it is up to you (and an small number of healing and tanking friends that do all the work), chosen one, to retrieve it and save the world from utter destruction and doom. Good luck'

I know I'm getting carried away here. It's just that I had expected, back in 2004, the genre to evolve towards something deeper and more original. I should have known that the mass market tsunami won't help any attempts to move MMORPG foward towards deep entertainment.

M

  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

3/23/11 4:59:18 PM#32

Interesting comment, considering that the industry leader has long moved away from the world making design into the instanced everything design.

  Darkheart00

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/08
Posts: 529

3/23/11 5:05:04 PM#33
Originally posted by Meridion
Originally posted by Darkheart00
Originally posted by Meridion
Originally posted by lizardbones

 


Originally posted by Loke666


Originally posted by Meridion
This is a PvE game.
It's really funny how people expect PvE games to balance for PvP. It's got tons of quests, dungeons, dynamic PvE world contents, public quests, all the stuff you expect from a PvE game.
It features no meaningful PvP except random world PvP without consequence and minigames. If you want a game for PvP, there are some really good ones out there.
You're right though, I personally play a Sin/BS/Sab and Mages, especially up until around 35, are basically free kills because they lack any good CC and lack the burst to really crit you away, while other classes get 20 sec stunlocks somewhere around level 15, which is more than enough to bring a mage down.
M



It is really the devs fault. Most devs make a PvE game, add a little PvP in the last moment but then try to pretend that both matters as much. Most MMOs have the same problem.
They could as well just cut out the PvP stuff instead, if you want a game with good PvP you need to do like DaoC and GW. They spent as much time on both already from the start and worked PvP into the mechanics.
Of course other games suffer from the opposite problem and added the PvE as an afterthought, like WAR and DFO.




Trion added the bare minimum PvP you could add to the game and never, at any point, advertised the game as a PvP game*. They basically said, "It exists for those that want it". People who expect something to be there when it doesn't exist will be disappointed. It doesn't matter if you're talking about meaningful Rift PvP or ferrets with opposable thumbs. Unrealistic expectations will never make you happy.

* Unless you count the one sentence from a VP that was quickly retracted by people who actually knew better.

 

Yea, I didn't follow the game as closely as most people I guess but I can't remember anybody ever adversiting this game as 'equally PvP and PvE'; At least my impression was always that the 'random' world invasions were the real bread and butter of Rift.

And really, that's about the only thing in the game that scratches the border to innovation. At least until you realize that the invasions have 0 persistent effect on anything in the gameworld because Trion obviously wanted the game to be competetive in the mass market segment. 

That's another discussion though, the world PvE _IS_ something new and grinding rifts can be fun with the right people and the right mindset. Of course though, when push comes to shove it's another theme park MMO lacking LotROs brilliance in lore and design, Age of Conans graphics and World of Warcrafts massive amount of content. It's still in the upper third of the 'MMORPG' pool...

M

EDIT: In this context I want to stress once more how the fact that worlds seem to get smaller instead of bigger since WoW is deeply disappointing; I thought seamless worlds with multiple racial starting areas and multiple major cities would become standard after WoW, but not one fantasy AAA title since then managed to deliver this? What's the problem there guys, monetary pressure to release early and develop as you go? I'm still waiting for WARs 6 capital cities...

You do realize creating all that content costs money? WoW was one of most expensive games ever created (100 million+) only years later was it suprassed by GTA. Also multiple starting areas and zones dilute population remember how empty Exodar area? for game like Rift zone population is key for rifts.

6 capital cities would have done nothing to save WAR heck one of the reasons the game failed was because there were 3 zones for each tier dilutes player population for PQs and RvR. i remember in tier 3s i went days without running into anyone.

Yea well you know, most games before WoW featured multiple, if not capital, but multiple large cities. DaoC, SWG, UO, even Meridian 59; Was it too costly for the developers 'back then' (while back then is ridiculous since that was basically 10 years ago, not like the real 'back then' in the 50s or something) to implement this? Have three realms diluted DaoC population? Did massive landspace damage SWGs popularity before the CU-armageddon?

No; I think the mindset was different back then, people created an MMORPG with the idea of creating a world for players to adventure in. To achieve this people needed to feel attached to their race, have a home, etc. ... Blizzard knows this, to this very day, proven by the fact that they included seperate starting zones for the new races and giving formerly homeless ones a starting zone... 

In my opinion, and as much as I am far from an industry expert, I have played quite a bunch of these games for more than a decade now, the post-WoW AAA titles and formerly announced 'wowkillers' tanked because they failed to give the player the feeling of being in a world, part of a world, to give the races and classes the players have chosen identity and a certain concept. Part of what made LotRO so attractive was the fact that if you started a hobbit, you did hobbit things during your gameplay youth, as an elf, you did completely other things, etc. pp. 

Creating a world is not some random 'bonus' nobody care about. Most of the players I have played with during these years were identifying themselves with the character/race/class they had chosen; Taking this away is taking away a fundamental appeal of MMORPGs and pushing them towards sologames.

Rift is a prime example for this. You start off as a dwarf/elf/human/dark elf/giant or tuareg human. But neither faction nor race have any relevance. Nobody treats you different, no race specific locations, not even class specific quests. Even the dialogue rhetoric is flat to outright ridiculous, like an overexaggerated mockery of fantasy dialogue

'The circlet of arcane power, athlatuhep the wicket demon holds it in the lair of despair, he has slept, for thousands of years, it is up to you (and an small number of healing and tanking friends that do all the work), chosen one, to retrieve it and save the world from utter destruction and doom. Good luck'

I know I'm getting carried away here. It's just that I had expected, back in 2004, the genre to evolve towards something deeper and more original. I should have known that the mass market tsunami won't help any attempts to move MMORPG foward towards deep entertainment.

M

A lot of zones in UO,DAoC,SWG were simply empty or simple copy and paste jobs that is what set Blizzard apart since they true spent great deal of time and money to make sure the content is fully fleshed. I simply don't see the point of large empty zone or vanilla city just to convoy the size (AoC/VG). If you want to make something big make sure its done well. SWTOR seems to be doing that.

 

As for SWG, it  was never that popular and NGE saved the game from spiraling into the abyss (check the population stats SWG was losing population and after CU/NGE decline slowed)

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

 
OP  3/23/11 9:48:28 PM#34

Coming back to 'my' topic; I am the consumer.  Some people get it and some do not.  "I" choose where to out-lay my entertainment dollars and there is some mounting uncertainty with the Trion development path or lack of direction that has "me" as an entertainment consumer concerned about "my" dollar.

 

Since my dollar might be better spent elsewhere soon, I did cancel my Founders-Club 3-month sub and am happier to be a month-month subscriber as I read through and follow about what Trion wants to be or appeal to when they grow-up.

 

So I am going to still be cautiously optomisitic, but not so-much-so as to pay for a 3-month or 6-month sub in advance.

 

Founders club members pay 10 cents less per day for a day of entertainment versus non-founders club members that are paying monthly. It really isn't that much, honestly.


Since I feel that Trion seems to be very unpredictable and potentially unreliable in terms of whether the entertainment game is worth a mid to long-term investment, but the immediate-term might still offer more entertainment than any non-sub single-player game or B2P game (GW2 isnt out) on the market today.


It actually relives me to feel as though I can take a 5-day break, or so, over the course of a month, at intermittent times, and still not miss-out on anything entertainment-wise or value-wise. However, if there is something that concerns me about any of the above, I can cancel immediately and not feel as though I'm feeding something I dont want to pay for and stop it more immediately than having a 3-month or 6-month sub.


So that's my take. I'm meeting Trion 1/2-way, and taking more of a controlling consumer-centric position as it relates to my subscription.

  xpowderx

Elite Member

Joined: 10/09/05
Posts: 4311

Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. Richard Feynman, Nobel-prize-winning physicist

3/24/11 12:05:45 AM#35
Originally posted by Kyleran

Actually as a Cleric I would have applauded the moves for entirely selfish reasons.  Rift is one of the few games that I've seen LFG spam that says "LFM to run Dungeon XYZ, NO CLERICS".  When questioned its because the raid has more than enough healers/off healers and its felt Cleric DPS sucks no matter how much into combat we spec.  Sadness.

I noticed this as well. Although I play a Reaver/Paladin I noticed Bards are wanted over clerics

MUST WATCH: http://vimeo.com/105072944

  crazynanny

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/03/10
Posts: 175

3/24/11 7:21:44 AM#36

I wonder if the game even needs such players as OP. "QQ my class got nerfed I ragequit/stop my sub". Maybe play after the changes first, then post, then You won't look like yet another WoW kid? Especially when alpha patch notes also have:



* Mages: Reduced pushback on all non-healing Mage spells.


* Mages: Increased the base damage on all damaging Mage abilities.


* Increased the amount of Armor on Cloth items.


  Xasapis

Tipster

Joined: 1/12/07
Posts: 5610

3/24/11 7:26:56 AM#37

I believe the OP will be happy to read the changes applied on the test alpha server regarding mages in general:

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?137034-Alpha-1.1-Update-Notes-Now-Available!

  Soki123

Elite Member

Joined: 8/10/08
Posts: 1341

3/24/11 7:33:32 AM#38

I played a Zerker back in the day in DAOC. If anyone remembers the LA nerf. Basically, zerkers destroyed everything, then nerfed and people whined and cried. I continued to play my zerker and still did very well, you just have to learn to adjust. That said, my main is a Pyro, and I ve had a blast with him, now they re getting buffed, it s like DAOC but the opposite for me. If they tone it down again, I don t care, I m not too concerned about that, I actually play to have fun, not to be the best.

  Cik_Asalin

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/04
Posts: 3091

 
OP  3/24/11 1:07:07 PM#39
Originally posted by Xasapis

I believe the OP will be happy to read the changes applied on the test alpha server regarding mages in general:

http://forums.riftgame.com/showthread.php?137034-Alpha-1.1-Update-Notes-Now-Available!

I think I might.  That, and as a Necro/Chloro, the addition to "Empty the Crypts" not eating a "Channel" but as a 20-second dot takes some of the edge off the initial concern of previously thought magery oversight by Trion.

 

But I am still going to be more comfortable with paying month-to-month and taking a few days off here and there without feeling as though I'm locked into a 3 or 6-month money-drop any more.

 

I understand that there is change and fluidity to every mmo entertainment outlet, but there is still many little things that gnaw away at me that surrounds less appeal than I had hoped in terms of the challenge to reward ratios, crafting and merchandising, community and player centricity of game-play and the overall shallowness and meaninglessness of PvPvE.

  tkoreaper

Novice Member

Joined: 6/03/09
Posts: 421

3/24/11 1:12:33 PM#40

Grow up and quit acting like you're the only one that got "nerfed". It's very annoying to see people cry about nerfs when really if they had any logical understanding at all, they would see it not as a nerf, but simply a change. A lot fo the supposed "nerfs" are made up for by increasing damage somewhere else, moving higher tier talents down the tree, or by changing other talents. People need to look at the WHOLE picture and quit crying about a few abilities that had their damage lowered or recieved a longer CD.

3 Pages « 1 2 3 » Search