Trending Games | Pirate101 | Guild Wars 2 | Warhammer 40K: Eternal Crusade | World of Warcraft

  Network:  FPSguru RTSguru
Login:  Password:   Remember?  
Show Quick Gamelist Jump to Random Game
Members:2,900,228 Users Online:0
Games:751  Posts:6,269,193
Recent forum postsRSS
Active threads
Cloud view
List all forums
General Forums
Developers Corner General Discussion
Popular Game Forums
Click a status to find game forum
Game Forums
Click a letter to find game forum
A-C
2029 Online 2112: Revolution 2Moons 4Story 8BitMMO 9 Dragons A Mystical Land A Tale in the Desert III A3 ACE Online ARGO Online Aberoth Absolute Force Online Absolute Terror Achaea Adellion Aerrevan Aetolia, the Midnight Age Age of Armor Age of Conan Age of Empires Online Age of Mourning Age of Wulin Age of Wushu Aida Arenas Aika Aion Albion Online Alganon All Points Bulletin (APB) Allods Online Altis Gates Amazing World Anarchy Online Ancients of Fasaria Andromeda 5 Angels Online Angry Birds Epic Anime Trumps Anmynor Anno Online Applo Arcane Hearts Arcane Legends ArchLord ArcheAge Archeblade Archlord X Ascend: Hand of Kul Asda 2 Asda Story Ashen Empires Asheron's Call Asheron's Call 2 Astera Online Astonia III Astro Empires Astro Lords: Oort CLoud Asura Force Atlantica Online Atriarch Aura Kingdom Aurora Blade Auto Assault Avatar Star Battle Dawn Battle Dawn Galaxies Battle for Graxia Battle of 3 Kingdoms Battle of the Immortals Battlecruiser Online Battlestar Galactica Online Battlestar Reloaded Beyond Protocol Black Aftermath Black Desert Black Gold Black Prophecy Black Prophecy Tactics: Nexus Conflict Blacklight Retribution Blade & Soul Blade Hunter Blade Wars Blazing Throne Bless Blitz 1941 Blood and Jade Bloodlines Champions Boot Hill Heroes Borderlands 2 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel Bound by Flame Bounty Bay Online Brain Storm Bravada Bravely Default Bravely Second Brawl Busters. Brick-Force Bright Shadow Bullet Run Business Tycoon Online CTRacer Cabal Online Caesary Call of Camelot Call of Gods Call of Thrones Camelot Unchained Canaan Online Cardmon Hero Cartoon Universe CasinoRPG Cast & Conquer Castle Empire Castlot Celtic Heroes Champions Online Champions of Regnum Chaos Online Child of Light Chrono Tales Citadel of Sorcery CitiesXL Citizen Zero City of Decay City of Heroes City of Steam City of Transformers City of Villains Civilization Online Clan Lord Clash of Clans Cloud Nine Club Penguin Colony of War Command & Conquer: Tiberium Alliances Company of Heroes Online Conquer Online Conquer Online 3 Continent of the Ninth (C9) Core Blaze Core Exiles Corum Online Craft of Gods Crimecraft Crimelife 2 Cronous Crota II Crusaders of Solaris Cultures Online Cyber Monster 2 Cyberpunk 2077 Céiron Wars
D-F
D&D Online DC Universe DK Online DOTA DOTA 2 DUST 514 DV8: Exile Dalethaan Dance Groove Online Dark Age of Camelot Dark Ages Dark Legends Dark Orbit Dark Relic: Prelude Dark Solstice Dark Souls 2 Dark and Light DarkEden Online DarkSpace Darkblood Online Darkest Dungeon Darkfall Darkfall: Unholy Wars Darkwind: War on Wheels Das Tal Dawn of Fantasy Dawntide DayZ Dead Earth Dead Frontier Dead Island Dead Island 2 Dead Island: Riptide Deco Online Deep Down Deepworld Defiance Deicide Online Dekaron Demons at the Horizon Desert Operations Destiny Diablo 3 Diamonin Digimon Battle Dino Storm Disciple Divergence Divina Divine Souls Divinity: Original Sin Dofus Dominus Online Dragon Age: Inquisition Dragon Ball Online Dragon Born Online Dragon Crusade Dragon Empires Dragon Eternity Dragon Fin Soup Dragon Nest Dragon Oath Dragon Pals Dragon Raja Dragon's Call Dragon's Call II Dragon's Prophet DragonSky DragonSoul Dragona Dragonica Dragons and Titans Drakengard 3 Dream of Mirror Online Dreamland Online Dreamlords: The Reawakening Drift City Duels Dungeon Blitz Dungeon Fighter Online Dungeon Overlord Dungeon Party Dungeon Rampage Dungeon Runners Dungeon of the Endless Dynastica Dynasty Warriors Online Dynasty of the Magi EIN (Epicus Incognitus) EVE Online Earth Eternal Earth and Beyond Earthrise Eclipse War Ecol Tactics Online Eden Eternal Edge of Space Einherjar - The Viking's Blood Elder Scrolls Online Eldevin Elf Online Elite: Dangerous Embers of Caerus Emil Chronicle Online Empire Empire & State Empire Craft Empire Universe 3 EmpireQuest Empires of Galldon End of Nations Endless Ages Endless Blue Moon Online Endless Online Entropia Universe EpicDuel Erebus: Travia Reborn Eredan Eternal Blade Eternal Lands Eternal Saga Ether Fields Ether Saga Online Eudemons Online EuroGangster EverEmber Online EverQuest Next EverQuest Online Adventures Evernight Everquest Everquest II Evony Exarch Exorace F.E.A.R. Online Face of Mankind Fairyland Online Fall of Rome Fallen Earth Fallen Sword Fallout 4 Fallout Online Family Guy Online Fantage Fantasy Earth Zero Fantasy Realm Online Fantasy Tales Online Fantasy Worlds: Rhynn Faunasphere Faxion Online Fearless Fantasy Ferentus Ferion Fiesta Online Final Fantasy Type-0 HD Final Fantasy XI Final Fantasy XIV Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn Firefall Fists of Fu Florensia Flyff Football Manager Live Football Superstars Force of Arms Forge Forsaken Uprising Forsaken World Fortnite Fortuna Forum for Discussion of Everlight Freaky Creatures Free Realms Freesky Online Freeworld Fung Wan Online Furcadia Fury Fusion Fall
G-L
GalaXseeds Galactic Command Online Game of Thrones: Seven Kingdoms Gameglobe Gate To Heavens Gates of Andaron Gatheryn Gauntlet Gekkeiju Online Ghost Online Ghost Recon Online Gladiatus Glitch Global Agenda Global Soccer Gloria Victis Glory of Gods GoGoRacer Goal Line Blitz Gods and Heroes GodsWar Online Golemizer Golf Star GoonZu Online Graal Kingdoms Granado Espada Online Grand Chase Grand Fantasia Grepolis Grimlands Guild Wars Guild Wars 2 Guild Wars Factions Guild Wars Nightfall H1Z1 Habbo Hotel Hailan Rising HaloSphere2 Haven & Hearth Hawken Heart Forth Alicia Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft Helbreath Hellgate Hellgate: London Hello Kitty Online Hero Online Hero Zero Hero's Journey Hero: 108 Online HeroSmash Heroes & Generals Heroes & Legends: Conquerors of Kolhar Heroes in the Sky Heroes of Atlan Heroes of Bestia Heroes of Gaia Heroes of Might and Magic Online Heroes of Thessalonica Heroes of Three Kingdoms Heroes of the Storm Hex Holic Online Hostile Space Hunter Blade Huxley Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition Illutia Illyriad Immortals USA Imperator Imperian Inferno Legend Infestation: Survivor Stories Infinite Crisis Infinity Infinity Iris Online Iron Grip: Marauders Irth Worlds Island Forge Islands of War Istaria: Chronicles of the Gifted Jade Dynasty Jagged Alliance Online Juggernaut Jumpgate Jumpgate Evolution KAL Online Kakele Online Kaos War Karos Online Kartuga Kicks Online King of Kings 3 Kingdom Heroes Kingdom Under Fire II Kingdom of Drakkar Kingory Kings Era Kings and Legends Kings of the Realm KingsRoad Kitsu Saga Kiwarriors Knight Age Knight Online Knights of Dream City Kothuria Kung Foo! Kunlun Online Kyn L.A.W. LEGO Universe La Tale Land of Chaos Online Landmark Lands of Hope: Redemption LastChaos League of Angels League of Legends - Clash of Fates Legend of Edda: Vengeance Legend of Golden Plume Legend of Katha Legend of Mir 2 Legend of Mir 3 Legendary Champions Lego Minifigures Online Lichdom: Battlemage Life is Feudal Light of Nova Lime Odyssey Line of Defense Lineage Lineage Eternal: Twilight Resistance Lineage II Linkrealms Loong Online Lord of the Rings Online Lords Online Lords of the Fallen Lost Saga Lucent Heart Lunia Lusternia: Age of Ascension Luvinia World
M-Q
MU Online Mabinogi Maestia: Rise of Keledus MagiKnights Magic Barrage Magic World Online Manga Fighter MapleStory Martial Heroes Marvel Heroes Marvel Super Hero Squad Online Marvel: Avengers Alliance Mass Effect 4 MechWarrior Online Megaten Meridian 59 : Evolution Merlin MetalMercs Metaplace Metin 2 MicroVolts Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor Midkemia Online Might & Magic Heroes: Kingdoms Might & Magic X: Legacy MilMo Minecraft Mini Fighter Minions of Mirth Ministry of War Monato Esprit Monkey King Online Monkey Quest Monster & Me Monster Madness Online MonsterMMORPG Moonlight Online: Tales of Eternal Blood Moonrise Mordavia Mortal Online Mourning My Lands Myst Online: URU Live Myth Angels Online Myth War Myth War 2 Mythborne Mytheon Mythic Saga Mythos N.E.O Online NIDA Online Nadirim Naviage: The Power of Capital Navy Field Need for Speed World Nemexia Neo's Land NeoSteam Neocron Nether Neverwinter Nexus: The Kingdom Of The Winds NinjaTrick NosTale Novus Aeterno Oberin Odin Quest Odyssey RPG Ogre Island Omerta 3 Online Boxing Manager Onverse Oort Online Order & Chaos Online Order of Magic Original Blood Origins Return Origins of Malu Orion's Belt Otherland Forums OverSoul Overkings Oz Online Oz World Pandora Saga Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Panzar Parabellum Parallel Kingdom Parfait Station Path of Exile Pathfinder Online Perfect World Perpetuum Online Persona V Phantasy Star Online 2 Phantasy Star Universe Phoenix Dynasty Online Phylon Pi Story Picaroon Pillars of Eternity Pirate Galaxy Pirate Storm Pirate101 PirateKing Online Pirates of the Burning Sea Pirates of the Caribbean Online Pixie Hollow Planeshift Planet Arkadia Planet Calypso PlanetSide 2 Planetside Planets³ Playboy Manager Pocket Legends Pockie Ninja Pockie Pirates Pockie Saints Pokémon X and Y PoxNora Prime World Prime: Battle for Dominus Priston Tale Priston Tale II Prius Online Prodigy Project Blackout Project Gorgon Project Powder Project Titan Forums Project Wiki Project Zomboid Puzzle Pirates Quest for Infamy Quickhit Football
R-S
R2 Online RAN Online RF Online ROSE Online Rage of 3 Kingdoms Ragnarok Online Ragnarok Online II RaiderZ Rail Nation Rakion Rappelz RappelzSEA Ravenmarch Realm Fighter Realm of Sierra Realm of the Mad God Realm of the Titans Realms Online Reclamation Red Stone Red War: Edem's Curse Regnum Online Remnant Knights Renaissance Repulse Requiem: Memento Mori Rift RiotZone Rise Rise of Dragonian Era Rise of Empire Rise of the Tycoon Risen 3: Titan Lords Rising of King Risk Your Life Rivality Rockfree Rohan: Blood Feud Role Play Worlds Roll n Rock Roma Victor Romadoria Rosh Online Roto X Rubies of Eventide Ruin Online Rumble Fighter Runes of Magic Runescape Rust Rusty Hearts Ryzom S4 League SAGA SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online SMITE SUN Sacred 3 Sagramore Salem SaySayGirls Scarlet Blade Scions of Fate Seal Online: Evolution Second Chance Heroes Second Life Secret of the Solstice Seed Serenia Fantasy Seven Seas Saga Seven Souls Online Sevencore Shadow Realms Shadow of Legend Shadowbane Shadowgate Shadowrun Online Shaiya Shards Online Shattered Galaxy Sho Online Shot Online Shroud of the Avatar SideQuest Siege on Stars Sigonyth: Desert Eternity Silkroad Online Skyblade Skyforge SmashMuck Champions Smoo Online Soldier Front Soul Master Soul Order Online Soul of Guardian South Park: The Stick of Truth Space Heroes Universe Sparta: War of Empires Spellcasters Sphere Spiral Knights Spirit Tales Splash Fighters Squad Wars Star Citizen Star Sonata 2 Star Stable Star Supremacy Star Trek Online Star Trek: Infinite Space Star Wars Galaxies Star Wars: Clone Wars Adventures Star Wars: The Old Republic StarQuest Online Starbound Stargate Worlds Starlight Story Starpires State of Decay SteelWar Online Stone Age 2 Stormfall: Age of War Stormthrone Storybricks Stronghold Kingdoms Styx: Master of Shadows Sudden Attack Supremacy 1914 Supreme Destiny Sword Girls Sword of Destiny: Rise of Aions SwordX Swords of Heavens Swordsman
T-Z
TERA TS Online TUG Tabula Rasa Tactica Online Tales Runner Tales of Fantasy Tales of Pirates Tales of Pirates II Tales of Solaris Talisman Online Tamer Saga Tank Ace Tantra Online Tatsumaki: Land at War Terra Militaris TerraWorld Online Terraria Thang Online The 4th Coming The Agency The Aurora World The Banner Saga The Black Watchmen The Chronicle The Chronicles of Spellborn The Crew The Division The Epic Might The Hammers End The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing The Incredible Adventures of Van Helsing 2 The Legend of Ares The Lost Titans The Matrix Online The Mighty Quest for Epic Loot The Missing Ink The Mummy Online The Myth of Soma The Pride of Taern The Realm Online The Repopulation The Secret World The Sims Online The Strategems The West The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt Theralon There Therian Saga Thrones of Chaos Tibia Tibia Micro Edition Tiger Knight Titan Siege Titans of Time Toontown Online Top Speed Topia Online Torchlight Torment: Tides of Numenera Total Domination Transformers Universe Transistor Transverse Traveller AR Travia Online Travian Trials of Ascension Tribal Hero Tribal Wars Tribes Universe Trickster Online Trove Troy Online True Fantasy Live Online Turf Battles Twelve Sky Twelve Sky 2 Twilight War Tynon U.B. Funkeys UFO Online URDEAD Online Ultima Forever: Quest for the Avatar Ultima Online Ultima X: Odyssey Ultimate Naruto Ultimate Soccer Boss Uncharted Waters Online Undercover 2: Merc Wars Underlight Unification Wars Universe Online Utopia Valkyrie Sky Vampire Lord Online Vanguard: Saga of Heroes Vanquish Space Vector City Racers Vendetta Online Victory - Age of Racing Vindictus Virtonomics Vis Gladius Visions of Zosimos VoidExpanse Voyage Century Online W.E.L.L. Online WAR (Warhammer Online) WAR2 Glory WYD Global Wakfu War Thunder War of 2012 War of Angels War of Legends War of Mercenaries War of Thrones War of the Immortals WarFlow Waren Story Warflare Wargame1942 Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade Warhammer 40K: Dark Millennium Online Warhammer Online: Wrath of Heroes Warkeepers Warrior Epic Wartune Wasteland 2 WebLords Wild West Online WildStar Wind of Luck WindSlayer 2 Wings of Destiny Wish Wizard101 Wizardry Online Wizards and Champions Wonder King Wonderland Online World Golf Tour World of Battles World of Darkness World of Heroes World of Kung Fu World of Pirates World of Speed World of Tanks World of Tanks Generals World of Warcraft World of Warplanes World of Warships World of the Living Dead WorldAlpha Wurm Online Xenoblade Chronicles: X Xenocell Xiah Xsyon Xulu YS Online Yitien ZU Online Zentia Zero Online Zero Online: The Andromeda Crisis Zodiac Online Zombies Ate My Pizza eRepublik

MMORPG.com Discussion Forums

Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Write up for those who doubt the GW2 crafting

2 Pages 1 2 » Search
34 posts found
  romanator0

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/10
Posts: 2425

 
OP  3/15/11 6:52:00 PM#1

http://tap-repeatedly.com/2011/03/15/crafting-a-future/#more-13622

Lewis B at tap-repeatedly made a nice write up about the crafting system in GW2 and how it might effect the economy and how it fits in with the rest of the game.

  djazzy

Novice Member

Joined: 6/20/05
Posts: 3623

3/15/11 7:07:01 PM#2

Write

;-p

  Loke666

Elite Member

Joined: 10/29/07
Posts: 16766

3/15/11 7:07:51 PM#3

I can't say I read anyone here who wish that GW2s crafting was a minigame. I guess people here are more experienced than many people Lewis talked to and know that minigames gets freaking boring after a while.

The issue everyone here have is the discovery system (Lweis seems to have missed that some are drops or quest rewards).

I don't think it is optimal myself but at least it don't force me to craft 35 tin long swords no one want to buy (EQ2).

The gathering system is actually pretty neat, particularly since material both can be drops or salvaged as well.

I still wonder if you can get rare materials from nodes and if in that case it is the same nodes as regular materials. 

  ircaddicts

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 154

3/15/11 7:18:42 PM#4
Originally posted by Loke666

I can't say I read anyone here who wish that GW2s crafting was a minigame. I guess people here are more experienced than many people Lewis talked to and know that minigames gets freaking boring after a while.

The issue everyone here have is the discovery system (Lweis seems to have missed that some are drops or quest rewards).

I don't think it is optimal myself but at least it don't force me to craft 35 tin long swords no one want to buy (EQ2).

The gathering system is actually pretty neat, particularly since material both can be drops or salvaged as well.

I still wonder if you can get rare materials from nodes and if in that case it is the same nodes as regular materials. 

 The blog writer is rather clueless about what people want and don't want. Personaly I would rather be crafting SOMETHING to advance my skill  even if it is pretty much useless than have to waste hours doing useless combos of mats to find ONE recipe. I don't want a mini game for crafting at all. I do like the gathering system as I have spent WAY to much time wanding around in mmos only to find someone has nicked all the mats I wanted.

Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 Lotro

Worst 2 wow and eve

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

3/15/11 7:56:23 PM#5
Originally posted by ircaddicts

 The blog writer is rather clueless about what people want and don't want. Personaly I would rather be crafting SOMETHING to advance my skill  even if it is pretty much useless than have to waste hours doing useless combos of mats to find ONE recipe. I don't want a mini game for crafting at all. I do like the gathering system as I have spent WAY to much time wanding around in mmos only to find someone has nicked all the mats I wanted.

If you're spending hours doing combos, you're either doing it wrong, or you're trying to explore and find something unique.

If the idea of spending that much time experimenting doesn't appeal to you, then you should probably give up on finding something unique.

Look at it this way... it's not any harder/rarer than getting some ultimately rare crafting recipe that drops randomly, the difference is that if somebody wants to share the recipe with somebody else, they can.

... and wikipedia if you want the rewards without the effort.

  Gennadios

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/08
Posts: 211

God Walking Amongst Mere Mortals

3/15/11 9:31:07 PM#6

The author romanticising a feature that will lose it's luster a few months down the line is kind of quaint, yet sad.

All the discovery system will do is drive a bigger wedge between the invested, results oriented gamers that know exactly what's available up front and the sentimental/clueless/roleplayers/noobs that waste their time on  "discovery."

Every single argument he lists will cease to be relevant in the first two months of release. The notion that ANet will stealth in totally free items to discover is laughable. How often should we expect something like that? Every 6 months when they hold a design a weapon contest? Why would they even do that when there's a financial benefit to release such items as part of a paid expansion? How long will it take for the community to discover the 5 or so items that get added?

 

I also doubt the author ever actually played or understood the TF2 crafting system. It works primarily because it's random. recipes you discover give you a a random item for a specific class and character slot. Meaning that if you have your mind set on a certain item, you'll be crafting the same recipe over and over until the game stops giving you the football helmet and finally spawns the fuzzy hat. I doubt that anyone would want a system that randomized in GW2, but the only alternative is something overly simplistic.

Another thing that hasn't been taken into account, is that the discoverables are essentially free. Same problem as GW1, such skins will be overly common and nobody will buy them. Players will just add extra value to the lootable recipe items in the long run.

  SalmonMan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/06/10
Posts: 78

3/15/11 9:51:55 PM#7
Originally posted by Gennadios
The notion that ANet will stealth in totally free items to discover is laughable. How often should we expect something like that? Every 6 months when they hold a design a weapon contest? Why would they even do that when there's a financial benefit to release such items as part of a paid expansion? How long will it take for the community to discover the 5 or so items that get added?

Why not? It's exactly the sort of small content updates you would expect. But I would also expect some to be added as part of paid for expansions or micro-transactions (perhaps you could discover them, but they are locked until you buy some widget as a micro-transaction, etc). Sure, they would only remain secret for a short while, but that would be part of the fun. New recipes could reflect the new content in expansions. I would think there would be a mix of new free and mini payment types of recipes and crafting related stuff.

  nomss

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/21/10
Posts: 1488

3/15/11 10:14:03 PM#8

I don't understand why the discoverable system is bothering people. I won't be doing it, but does not mean there are 2 other guys who may want to do it...

I don't see how nodes being available to everyone will create a better econmy. I think best crafting system was in FFXI. Once maxed level you could start making +1 items and even low level gear would be good and sell for a good price.

Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1

  Lord.Bachus

Elite Member

Joined: 5/14/07
Posts: 8630

I believe in life before death... So dont forget to enjoy it while you still can.

3/16/11 1:44:02 AM#9

The sollution for the Wiki recipes database is simple...

 

Make all/most/some recipes character based... which would mean that while you and me could create the same item, we would need different ingredients because our creation process is a little different...

 

 

Next to they could have/make a minigame that allows you to discover new recipes... and have the actuall crafting process as it is..

 

 

 

Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13580

3/16/11 1:52:02 AM#10
Originally posted by Loke666

I can't say I read anyone here who wish that GW2s crafting was a minigame. I guess people here are more experienced than many people Lewis talked to and know that minigames gets freaking boring after a while.

That's why the Puzzle Pirates approach to minigames was invented.  You play a minigame a bunch of times to get good at it, and it keeps track of how good you are.  Then after that, it will let you continue to craft goods based on your rating of how good you are at the minigame, if you've played it in the last 10 days.  If you play it once per week, you can keep crafting goods at that skill level forever.

If you quit for six months, then as soon as you play it once again, it lets you continue crafting goods for the next 10 days at that skill level.  Of course, if you quit for six months, you might not be so good anymore when you come back.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 13580

3/16/11 3:35:43 AM#11

My, that's an awful article.  Let's start with the obvious howler:

"Guild Wars Wikipedia (GWW)"

It's hard to imagine anyone familiar with the concept of a game wiki saying that.

-----

"RIFT and World of Warcraft are two examples of MMOGs where nodes are used as a valuable commodity, often more so than the product they produce."

So far so good...

"A greater abundance of raw materials immediately reduces their value, creating a new market for the products produced and thereby placing greater emphasis on creation as opposed to wholesale of raw goods."

No, no it doesn't.  If the cost of the raw materials is 10 platinum, and the cost of crafting is 3 seconds, then the value of the item is essentially entirely in the cost of the raw materials.  If the cost of the raw materials is reduced to 1 platinum, that isn't changed meaningfully.  If the cost of the raw materials is reduced to nothing, then the value of the crafted item is likewise reduced to nothing.  It's easier to spend 3 seconds to craft it yourself than to find someone else who did.

Furthermore, while it's likely that ArenaNet will make raw materials fairly plentiful, it's hardly guaranteed.  They could easily make more nodes spawn or fewer, or make each node give more materials or fewer, or make crafting items require more materials or fewer.  Any one of those effects could, by itself, overwhelm the decision to make it so that everyone can harvest from the same node.

And then later...

"While the physical creation may be uninvolving, arriving at this stage would not have only took time (through creating the components and discovering the recipe) but fundamentally the method remains quick and entirely functional."

Right.  He's finally conceded that crafting itself is completely trivial, but still expects players to value the crafted item far more than the materials from which it is crafted?

-----

"Not only will this encourage the distribution of weapons and armour to all players but also a greater motivation to share what we gather, in order to help others."

Perhaps there's a greater motivation to give things away if they're so common and cheap as to be worthless.  But it's perhaps more salient to say that there's no motivation to ask for things to be given to you if they're so cheap as to be worthless.

-----

"The final benefit that this creates is the natural encouragement to craft. By creating nodes that are abundant for all, players will realise they don’t have to spend countless hours scouring zones for resources, but will instead be willing to craft freely and in abundance without fear of a time-sink."

Making crafting add no value whatsoever encourages players to craft?  Really?

-----

"But what these individuals are failing to understand is the prospect of discovery. Although for many the temptation to utilise GWW will be too great, there will be countless who enjoy the prospect of finding recipes for themselves."

So here, the writer is trying to comment on something that he knows absolutely nothing about.  It's something that most games don't do, so he hasn't seen it, and how would he know how it works?

First of all, most people don't find it terribly interesting to pick some items at random and see if they'll combine to something that you don't want, when you could have looked on the wiki and seen.  Maybe people try it a few times, but virtually everyone will get bored very quickly.

Second, trying things at random will be a tremendously inefficient way to discover recipes.  This is the sort of thing that basically has to be macroed.  Someone writes a macro and lets it run for a week and systematically tries hundreds of thousands of combinations and sees what works.  Anything that will work within the first million or so most obvious guesses will be found very quickly.  There will be so few things outside of that that the odds of actually discovering something new will be infinitessimal.

"Imagine the excitement at discovering a recipe for a stunning bow and the realisation that having visited GWW, it isn’t there. Think of the adoration, the begging from others and riches you could earn."

Umm, yikes.  "Adoration" is the wrong word.  Try "flame wars", and you're closer to the truth.

If one person knows a recipe and won't give it away to anyone who wants it for free, he'll get flamed, blacklisted, and so forth.  Actually, if he knows the recipe and does share it, he might well still get flamed if he doesn't explain it in a sufficiently accessible way to people who just learned five minutes ago that the game actually has crafting.

Does that sound cynical?  Well, I've got the scars to prove that it happens that way in practice.  Or at least it did in the ruby glue incident in A Tale in the Desert.  And the community for Guild Wars 2 has exactly zero chance of handling the situation in a more mature manner than that of ATITD.

-----

"What these people are failing to understand however is that crafting of this type is not only tiresome after a short period, but players often create work-arounds through external modifications that strip back the process and make it simpler."

If it's bad that a process can be botted, then combat should be removed from most MMORPGs.  That gets tiresome, too, doesn't it?

Now, it's certainly possible to make a bad minigame, or to require it to be played too much.  But that's not an argument against having minigames, any more than that it is possible to have badly designed combat is an argument against having combat at all.

There are other, more serious arguments against minigames.  But the author of that article doesn't seem to be familiar with them.

-----

"Although players who craft almost exclusively within MMOGs may object entirely, we cannot expect a developer to create a crafting system that is laborious or overly time consuming, when the vast majority of players only use crafting to compliment their play."

This amounts to arguing that Guild Wars 2 should not have a good crafting system because most other games don't.  The latter is the reason why most players don't like crafting much in most other games.

-----

"By altering the way resource nodes are gathered, creating discoverable recipes with potentially limitless combinations of items, coupled with a streamlined yet simple method of crafting, we will see more players than ever encouraged to craft.  This is surely a good thing, isn’t it?"

If the problem is that crafting is boring, making it mandatory but still boring is a downgrade, not an upgrade.

Thankfully, ArenaNet doesn't look likely to go that route.  Quite the opposite, actually:  they'll make crafting completely optional, and if you want something crafted, it will likely be a fairly trivial matter to get someone to craft it for you, even if you can't craft yourself.  That means fewer players crafting than in a game that actually pushes players to do so, not more.

=====

Now, there are some serious arguments in favor of the way ArenaNet is handling crafting.  I might have to write that up sometime.  But they aren't anywhere to be found in that article.

  Kingdouglas

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/28/11
Posts: 81

3/16/11 5:49:20 AM#12

@Quizicalls long reply. I can't judge the reasoning because I don't know that much about crafting in games but I have to say that was an entertaining post (im not trying to be ironic, I actually enjoyed reading the post).

  User Deleted
3/16/11 6:23:31 AM#13

I have to think that nodes will be pretty scarce, or have extremely long reset timers per person.  Not only because sharing nodes would otherwise increase the output of a zone 100x over, but also because I think it fits with their philosophy of not wanting other people in the group to have to wait for people to constantly have to stop to gather.  So I think raw materials are still going to fetch a good price.

I would also expect creating the goods to be about the same as in other games, a small tip above the cost of mats required.  It does take effort to raise the skill level after all.

I don't think that the discovery process is going to be a bad thing.  I think as long as ArenaNet puts in a sufficient number of recipes, then you'll have a very good chance of finding a combination that works.  I think also especially if the recipes follow some intuitive rules.

For instance, if making a bow always requires lumber and string, then you're really mixing and matching the two other slots.  If there's a clear way to keep track of what zone an item was found in, then it's even easier.  If Lumber/String/Gem/Mechanism from zone A makes a bow, then probably the same combination of item types from zone B will make a bow.  If each of these components provides a certain amount of a certain stat, then it's even easier than that.  Any lumber from any zone plus any string plus any gem etc etc will make a different bow with the composite stats.  That would certainly ease upping your crafting skill and allow you to use up extra lower level raw materials you have laying around.

Quizzical, you have a good point about potential flame wars from withholding recipes, but similarly, I hope that if the recipes are intuitive enough, if the item names are descriptive enough, just knowing an item exists and what level the crafter is will put people on the fast track towards being able to discover it themselves. 

  ircaddicts

Novice Member

Joined: 12/15/05
Posts: 154

3/16/11 8:28:52 AM#14
Originally posted by Meowhead
Originally posted by ircaddicts

 The blog writer is rather clueless about what people want and don't want. Personaly I would rather be crafting SOMETHING to advance my skill  even if it is pretty much useless than have to waste hours doing useless combos of mats to find ONE recipe. I don't want a mini game for crafting at all. I do like the gathering system as I have spent WAY to much time wanding around in mmos only to find someone has nicked all the mats I wanted.

If you're spending hours doing combos, you're either doing it wrong, or you're trying to explore and find something unique.

If the idea of spending that much time experimenting doesn't appeal to you, then you should probably give up on finding something unique.

Look at it this way... it's not any harder/rarer than getting some ultimately rare crafting recipe that drops randomly, the difference is that if somebody wants to share the recipe with somebody else, they can.

... and wikipedia if you want the rewards without the effort.

 You still don't get it  SIGH. Ok lets try another way. You can do one the following 2 DE's Which would you choose. 

One is you have to kill a random amount (say 20 to 50) of a random creature in a random location. All the info is hidden from you. You only know you have done the quest when it says quest complete. If you leave the area or log out before you finished then any progess is reset. This is the discovery DE.

In the other one the objectives are also random but the number you have to kill is five times as many BUT you know ALL the info AND you can quit at anytime and it will SAVE your progess and you can complete it later. This is the normal DE. I would take the normal one every time. As I can see I'm geting somewhere everytime I kill something. IF I get bored I can go do something else and know I can finish this later. I CAN NOT do that in the other DE.

Makeing the recipes a world drop is VASTLY different for makeing it a discovery option. As I can do other things while waiting for the recipe to drop. Where as I can't do that with the discovery option. If I spend 2 hours out in the world doing stuff and the recipe does'nt drop I will still of got all the xp, gold, mats, and karma from all the stuff i did even if I don't get the recipe. Where are I will get NOTHING from the discover methord if I don't find the recipe and then only the recipe if I do.

As I have said before several times IF all the recipes are as simple as you seem to think they are. ALL but the rarest WILL be on the wiki before the game even goes live. Thereby rendeing the whole process pointless.

Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 Lotro

Worst 2 wow and eve

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

3/16/11 9:05:07 AM#15
Originally posted by ircaddicts

As I have said before several times IF all the recipes are as simple as you seem to think they are. ALL but the rarest WILL be on the wiki before the game even goes live. Thereby rendeing the whole process pointless.

... and so?  That's like saying that puzzle games are pointless because all the answers to the puzzles will be up on a wiki almost instantly.

If you don't want to do the puzzles, then don't.

For those who want to do the puzzles, it sounds fun.  The answers being on wiki don't have anything to do with the enjoyment those people will get.

So far as this crafting system goes, ideally, they would create a sort of 'language' out of the item crafting, so you can understand how doing one thing will lead to you figuring out how to do other things.  Like if you learn how to make a poison axe haft, you can translate that into making poison sword hilts, poison staff wrappings, and so on.

The only thing you've ever managed to convince me of with all your arguing is that they've created a feature I'll enjoy and you won't.  (Unless you ruin my enjoyment by stalking me and keep messaging me 'Hey Meowhead!  Here's a recipe you might not know, now you can't find it on your own!'.  Which would be creepy. ;) )

That's just the way it is.  I'm not trying to convince you that you have to enjoy the feature, just explaining that it is possible for other people to do so, and trying to explain how they would do it if they were going to.

It is highly unlikely that any game will have every feature perfectly tuned to a person's tastes.  I'm sure there's something you like about GW2 that I find less than ideal.  In this case, it's the other way around.

Since the crafting won't get anybody items any more powerful than any other method of getting items (Like buying them, going through dungeons, or PvP), it doesn't seem like some horrible tragic crime to me if they ended up creating the kind of system you won't enjoy.

That's one problem with crafting.  No matter WHAT system you care to name, there's going to be a large amount of people who don't like it for one reason or another.  Too simple, too hard, too many minigames, not enough minigames, too straightforward, too cryptic, too pointless, too important, not enough effect on the economy, too much...

With many other features, it's a little easier to target the fun, but people are severely divided on almost every aspect of crafting.

  someforumguy

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/25/07
Posts: 3504

3/16/11 9:13:11 AM#16
Originally posted by ircaddicts
Originally posted by Loke666

I can't say I read anyone here who wish that GW2s crafting was a minigame. I guess people here are more experienced than many people Lewis talked to and know that minigames gets freaking boring after a while.

The issue everyone here have is the discovery system (Lweis seems to have missed that some are drops or quest rewards).

I don't think it is optimal myself but at least it don't force me to craft 35 tin long swords no one want to buy (EQ2).

The gathering system is actually pretty neat, particularly since material both can be drops or salvaged as well.

I still wonder if you can get rare materials from nodes and if in that case it is the same nodes as regular materials. 

 The blog writer is rather clueless about what people want and don't want. Personaly I would rather be crafting SOMETHING to advance my skill  even if it is pretty much useless than have to waste hours doing useless combos of mats to find ONE recipe. I don't want a mini game for crafting at all. I do like the gathering system as I have spent WAY to much time wanding around in mmos only to find someone has nicked all the mats I wanted.

Yes, the blog writer is clueless about what people individually want. Who isnt? This is also completely besides the point if the next thing you write is all about what you want.

They already wrote that not all recipes are obtained through the experimenting. Its a mix of different ways to obtain.

  Sasami

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/08
Posts: 330

3/16/11 9:56:22 AM#17
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by Loke666

I can't say I read anyone here who wish that GW2s crafting was a minigame. I guess people here are more experienced than many people Lewis talked to and know that minigames gets freaking boring after a while.

That's why the Puzzle Pirates approach to minigames was invented.  You play a minigame a bunch of times to get good at it, and it keeps track of how good you are.  Then after that, it will let you continue to craft goods based on your rating of how good you are at the minigame, if you've played it in the last 10 days.  If you play it once per week, you can keep crafting goods at that skill level forever.

If you quit for six months, then as soon as you play it once again, it lets you continue crafting goods for the next 10 days at that skill level.  Of course, if you quit for six months, you might not be so good anymore when you come back.

 That actually sounds pretty damn good system. Damn I really wish this becomes cornerstone of future crafting. It's not too easy, yet not too hard. I really like how it mimicks realistic skill system where you actually need to do stuff to be good. I'm sure there is features that could be adjusted like losing skill lvl or losing materials in process but damn that sounds good. Post of day, week, maybe even month.

  Kaneth

Elite Member

Joined: 8/19/07
Posts: 1631

3/16/11 11:07:12 AM#18

Personally, I think the crafting system sounds like it could be fun. It has some elements of the Asheron's Call original magic system, where you had to discover spells by combining different spell components, or you could learn them from a scroll if you found one. Then of course SpellPea came out and basically negated any reason for discovery, but the first month or so of the game watching all of the mages in town standing around fizzling spells and the cheer when a new spell was found was a really neat experience.

As with all things, I'm not going to pass a judgement until I actually see it in action, or get to try it myself to see how well I like it.

  jondifool

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 1122

3/16/11 11:53:04 AM#19

to keep it short and simple. Remember the Bartle test. There is different kind of gamers

And if you havent got the picture yet, ArenaNet does alot for explores. Discovering recipes by eksperiment is for explores. And they enjoy that even when outwited by wiki. And alot of casual gamers (wich GW2 will have because its F2P as GW1 had) will enjoy the feature.

Achivers goes to wiki, and loose very litte by having to do that!

read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  TGSOL

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/11
Posts: 279

3/16/11 12:06:32 PM#20

It's been known forever that crafting was not going to be an overly complex or essential part of the game. Combat, the dynamic world and personal stories are thier primary focus.

2 Pages 1 2 » Search