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Xsyon: Prelude

Xsyon 

General Discussion  » Another terrible game, launched far too early with little to insight or inspiration

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89 posts found
  mrcalhou

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 1459

3/10/11 4:32:14 PM#21
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by Elmoren

Blindly figuring things out without feedback is not a challenge, its an exercise in futility.  I'm not spending a week figuring out what stats do.  Fundamental expectations of a video game are fundamental.  You can not have a successful game with a target audience of limited people.

I'm in a agreement with you on this point actually, not really my idea of fun nor what I expect in my MMO's so I'm probably not going to play it any more than you are.  I do disagree completely with the highlighted comment however.

It's your sort of thinking that leads developers to create every game along the lines of the formula made popular by WOW.  There certainly is room for games for smaller niche's of players a la EVE or several other smaller titles.

This is a business, businesses need to make money.  You will not make money passing things off as a 'challenge' or a 'sandbox' because you were too lazy to write tooltips or a tutorial in a disaster of a UI.  Even something as simple as descriptions would have gone a long way, and not chased players off.

It is true, they may have narrowed the niche too far down, if its true that "most" gamers will insist on tooltips, tutorials or what not.

95% of the people that play this game will leave after the free trial, mark my words.  Not opening more servers was the best thing they could have done.  One would die immediately.

I doubt this game will ever have a free trial.  This is a game normally only tried by those who already know what they're getting in to, what I'm surprised at is that you didn't realize what you were getting into.

Also, don't expect things to get added to this game.  It has a long way to go to even be functional, let alone add to its established base of functionality.

Depends on what you call functional. What it has functions pretty well (crafting, city building etc) but if you aren't interested in those features (I'm not) then your viewpoint is valid.

Good luck if you think not knowing things, and guessing what things do is a 'challenge'.  It's not.  It's just dumb luck. 

Actually, to some folks that is the challenge, they just aren't wired the same as you.

I would hardly consider Eve to have a limited player-base. CCP is likely pulling in between 4 and 5 million american dollars a month. More than enough to pay employees, update the game, and launch research initiatives. Is it limited relative to World of Warcraft, then sure it is. Is it limited relative to Darkfall? Not by a longshot.

I think the poster you quoted was thinking more along the lines of Darkfall and Mortal Online. Those games, while they strive to be "sandbox" (I prefer the term emergent-gameplay) in execuation, they fall short because of lack of depth, horrible launches, and the developers fearing that they will alienate their player-base by making too many changes.

What Xsyon needs to do is outline a plan that will balance the game better in terms of PvP and Non-Pvp combat options, item efficacy, and play-styles. They need to figure out ways to improve their server's ability to handle the things going on. And they need to finally come out and say, "Look this is the way that will work the best. If I'm wrong then I will figure out a way to change it in a step-wise fashion that isn't too drastic at one time."

--------
"Chemistry: 'We do stuff in lab that would be a felony in your garage.'"

The most awesomest after school special T-shirt:
Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions

  darth_vato

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/15/11
Posts: 5

3/10/11 4:40:21 PM#22
Originally posted by Elmoren

Xsyon isn't bad game.  

Just a terrible all around game

lol

As for the whole stats thing, did you not even bother to look at the forum or read the manual? That might have, you know, helped you out in the long run. Now you just look like an idiot.

Then again you're a Warhammer correspondent... how's that working out for you?

Needless to say I've already gotten a refund on Xsyon, not that it matters anyways. The game will do good regardless. 

  Raxeon

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/10/10
Posts: 2082

3/10/11 4:44:02 PM#23

this isnt launch day thats in 5 days

  User Deleted
3/10/11 4:50:33 PM#24
Originally posted by Elmoren

Xsyon isn't bad game.  

 

I'm confused...you title the thread "Terrible game" and you start by saying it's not a bad game...my head hurts.

  seabeast

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 766

3/10/11 4:55:33 PM#25

"Do not buy this game.  You were warned." I do not know if I will purchuse this game or not but I will investigate it first...THATS A HINT SON.

  SuperXero89

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2615

3/10/11 4:59:26 PM#26

The problem with a lot of indy games is that they have too many big ideas and not enough means to implement them.  I'm not sure what the issue would be with simply release a solid base-game to be built upon with future content and updates.  Instead, too many indy games get releaesd with half baked ideas and unfinished content that leaves players little else other than a world and a character model to move around within that world.

  seabeast

Novice Member

Joined: 3/24/05
Posts: 766

3/10/11 5:01:07 PM#27
Originally posted by SuperXero89

The problem with a lot of indy games is that they have too many big ideas and not enough means to implement them.  I'm not sure what the issue would be with simply release a solid base-game to be built upon with future content and updates.  Instead, too many indy games get releaesd with half baked ideas and unfinished content that leaves players little else other than a world and a character model to move around within that world.

  JohnnyMotrin

Novice Member

Joined: 11/14/06
Posts: 441

We've got the streets suckers!!!

3/10/11 5:12:24 PM#28
Originally posted by Elmoren

Xsyon isn't bad game.  It's a poorly done game.  Much like other MMO's of the past few years, it suffers from the 'get it out the door!' mentality of MMO project managers and was rushed out far too early, severely crippling its potential. 

As I said, its not a bad game.  Howver, it's also not a good game.  It's a classic case of diehard MMO players (like myself) trying to find somewhere to call home, embracing the newest, poorly done, idea.  When you're bored, struggling to find a game to play in your spare time, you'll play ANYTHING.  Thats where Xsyon comes in.

If you haven't read forums or looked up guides, don't bother playing this game.  You won't be able to.  Not from an impossible point, but from a WTF point.  You'll come into a world without tooltips or descriptions, without a tutorial, without a blatantly obvious UI, and without much time to learn it.  You'll probably get ganked while trying to figure out what to do.

Don't get me started on character creation, where you get to allocate meaningless stat points into a few commonly named places.  I label them as meaningless because there is no way to figure out what each one does, and in game - some are even less obvious then their labels.

Tooltips are not hard to write.  They are not hard to implement, and they are inexcusable not to have in any program, of any kind (except perhaps a calculator) in any production level environment since 1995.  Information is never a bad thing.  Not having these means you're allergic to success and money.

Combat is a mass of poorly animated and designed characters from 1998 swinging wildly without any indication of, well, anything.  Are you hitting?  Are they?  when will either of you die?  What's happening?  Why play a game where you aren't even in reasonable control of your actions.  Swinging wildly at someone hoping you're hitting isn't PVP.  It's luck.  Go to the casio if that's your thing.

Just a terrible all around game, from another company that didn't bother to write up a project plan and pushed out a release far before it was ready.  What another monumental waste of time and development.  Incredible potential.

Do not buy this game.  You were warned.

 

{mod edit}

 

I've said all along that I hope the game does do well and eventually gets to a state where Xsyon can be considered a "finished" game.  Why? Because I do want to play it as the developers foresee it to be.  However I can not give them 1 cent  at it's current state. 

 

I find it laughable how people get so offended and almost take it personal anytime someone posts Xsyon's flaws.  The game has more flaws than possibly any other MMO at this current time.  It goes a long way in telling us the current state within the MMO world that people are actually spending their money on these unfinished products... basically paying to beta play.  Good grief!

  User Deleted
3/10/11 5:34:23 PM#29

Well for the OP, the game is designed to have a lot of "unknown" in it, for the players to discover though playing, rather than getting a detialed write up on every stat and function in game.  Was this done on purpose or because its like one guy programming the game...who knows, but it is what it is.  I liked that part of the game  No best way to build a character other than trying it out and comparing results, only way to find out which weapons worked best was to try them, and the answer was non, unarmed preformed best....anywho the game made a point not to hold your hand with tutorials, tool tips, and advanced strategy write ups.

 

I agree with the UI and interface looking like a game 10 years ago, and preforming like a game 15 years ago.

 

No the crafting system is not well done, its simple, uninspired, and boring.  Tedious scavanging of not nodes but tile texure for reources.  Whatever thats fine, but its incedibly boring, watching the scavange, forage, or harvest bar slowly move.  Nothing inspired about that.  Then the actual crafting, open craft window, add mats and tools, hit create, watch green bar move, either complete or failure.  That is all.

Normally a crafting system like this isnt a big deal, but it is the focus of the game, at least im told that, and from looking at what else the game offers, it must be the focus of the game, if not...what is?

 

Now the good part, youve skilled crafting, you have lots of recipies (some you find some you automatically learn somehow) now what.  Ok go get more mats and skill it some more, your skills and stats are decaying.  What good are these items your making for?  Come the big day tribal wars, a combat system, and the rest of the game is released, id gather at least a year from now on that, if not longer.  Nothing is needed really untill tribal wars, so it sits in a basket, waiting for a need.  Currently unarmed combat naked is the best route, armor doesnt do anything noticable, even the good stuff, and unarmed swings faster, has a chance to stun, and lowerd the amount of hits to kill from 3 to 5, but you swing faster than a weapon so its about the same.

 

Terraforming!  Sounds great, however one man terraforms for an entire tribe, oh and you joined late, its already done, looks cool right?  No you cant take your shovel outside your homestead or tribal lands and dig and terraform, its forbidden in the apocalypse.  The purpose for this all?  Visual and come the big day tribal wars is released(youll hear that a lot) it will add defense.

Structures?  Teepee's, log cabins, its the 1800's and they are back, nevermind its a year after the apocalypse, theres no reminace of last years civilization, it was all destroyed, leaving nature untouched, except no bushes, those must have gone extinct, grass and trees and pristine beauty, with some junk piles.  Oh these structures dont have a use untill the big day tribal wars is released either.

 

Ok so your in a tribe, they have terraformed something cool, have a nice settlement built for visuals (untill the big day...) now what?  Combat is a placeholder and doesnt preform well, so you can gather mats for the higher level crafters, or do it yourself and craft what everyone else has stockpiled just to do it.

 

So lets pretend we are 3 months after a successful launch, no lag, no issues all is well.  Your tribe has 500 baskets full of, well crap.  You can kill people, but combat is the same, and why?  Take their stuff, give them a reason to head back to the baskets and grab one of the 5000 items their tribes been pumping out over the last 3 months....still have a long time untill tribal wars.

Good game on paper, huge potential, lacks the basics, trouble getting launched, all the cool stuff is still on paper, what you pay for is alpha, big promises ect......why does this sound so familiar?

  nutsodds

Novice Member

Joined: 1/31/10
Posts: 90

3/10/11 6:08:13 PM#30

Op seems to have something personal against the game.

Or even interested in the game fails or something lol.

I love this game.Yeahh Fanboy!!

  Elmoren

Warhammer Online Correspondent

Joined: 7/05/07
Posts: 113

 
OP  3/10/11 6:52:58 PM#31
Originally posted by mrcalhou
Originally posted by Kyleran

It's your sort of thinking that leads developers to create every game along the lines of the formula made popular by WOW.  There certainly is room for games for smaller niche's of players a la EVE or several other smaller titles.

 

No, my opinion is that of games that are complete.  They hold basic fundamentals of software design present, and they do not cut corners or omit basic features in order to deliver a product in a rush and make a quick profit.  Don't bother arguing this, there isn't a counter argument.  The game is being rushed out the door, probably due to poor planning, so they can recoop some costs.  This is the first time this has ever happened in the industry.

I'm not INSISTING on anything.  I'm saying a little extra work (and some of the additions people complain about are literally MINOR additions) goes a LONG way.  They didn't produce this game for the hell of it, they need it to make money too.  Why limit your income by not putting a little pride in your work and doing things the right way.

This has amazing potential, as a whole.  It was poorly and hastily done, and will suffer tremendously.  Eve has a Niche Base, I played Eve for years, their fans are dedicated and concise in their opinions.  Eve is a complete game.  You won't find things unexplained, lacking tooltips or UI development, or generally leaving people completely in the dark.  The information is right there in the game ready for you to access.

What "Wow formula" are you talking about, anyway?  The formula of success?  Sorry for expecting someone developing a product to have finished it before marketing it.

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  gracefield

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/06
Posts: 284

3/10/11 7:08:38 PM#32

Very gradually, more threads like this are emerging, where gamers are beginning to debate the problems with this game. At the same time, the number of threads where people are lauding the positive things they see in Xyson is decreasing. I've said before that these guys are close to screwing this up. This is a good idea but it's been poorly executed and it's beginning to fall apart....

  kaiser3282

Tipster

Joined: 5/21/08
Posts: 2694

3/10/11 7:24:46 PM#33
Originally posted by Elmoren
Originally posted by mrcalhou
Originally posted by Kyleran

It's your sort of thinking that leads developers to create every game along the lines of the formula made popular by WOW.  There certainly is room for games for smaller niche's of players a la EVE or several other smaller titles.

 

No, my opinion is that of games that are complete.  They hold basic fundamentals of software design present, and they do not cut corners or omit basic features in order to deliver a product in a rush and make a quick profit.  Don't bother arguing this, there isn't a counter argument.  The game is being rushed out the door, probably due to poor planning, so they can recoop some costs.  This is the first time this has ever happened in the industry.

I'm not INSISTING on anything.  I'm saying a little extra work (and some of the additions people complain about are literally MINOR additions) goes a LONG way.  They didn't produce this game for the hell of it, they need it to make money too.  Why limit your income by not putting a little pride in your work and doing things the right way.

This has amazing potential, as a whole.  It was poorly and hastily done, and will suffer tremendously.  Eve has a Niche Base, I played Eve for years, their fans are dedicated and concise in their opinions.  Eve is a complete game.  You won't find things unexplained, lacking tooltips or UI development, or generally leaving people completely in the dark.  The information is right there in the game ready for you to access.

What "Wow formula" are you talking about, anyway?  The formula of success?  Sorry for expecting someone developing a product to have finished it before marketing it.

 Cool story except for the part where you apparently read up on / learned little to nothing about the game, its development, and the core ideas behind the game. Maybe on of the kiddies who just saw a couple of features that they liked, and ignored all the other little details?

Judging by your OP, the game wa sjust too hard for you to figure out. Meanwhile many of us logged into the game and had absolutely no problem with some of the thingsyoure talking about. The things we had trouble with... guess what, theres plenty of player made guides, tutorials, videos, etc out there on the forums. That is the way the ENTIRE game is designed. it is PLAYER driven, not you having your hand held by someone else. We are thrown into a world with very little knowledge and some primitive tools with nobody around to teach us except eachother. There are no NPCs to guide you and hold your hand every step of the way, it simply wouldnt make sense to even have some of the things youre talking about.

To me it honestly just sounds like you:

1) expected an easy mode game like the hundreds that already exist

2) want this game to have things / be just like everything else out there that you could be playing instead, rather than understanding thatsome of the "missing" things and difficulties are intended and fit into the game design & background story and will be added/ improved as the ENTIRE game, including our knowledge & technology evolves over time.

3) again, are completely clueless. the game has already been delayed about 1 year to fix some of the things that actually were problems. the state it is in now, with the features that ar ein it are INTENDED and if you were an actually member of the Xsyon community you would have the slightest clue that things change from day to day based on what we the players ask for, through forum debates, polls, etc. Jordi isnt making these decisions on his own, he takes feedback from us, asks what we do/dont want in the game, and much of what you see now is the way we wanted it. We dont want WoW version 949374 or Hello Kitty Online.

  Inveritus

Novice Member

Joined: 2/20/11
Posts: 55

3/10/11 7:30:14 PM#34
Originally posted by Elmoren
Originally posted by mrcalhou
Originally posted by Kyleran

It's your sort of thinking that leads developers to create every game along the lines of the formula made popular by WOW.  There certainly is room for games for smaller niche's of players a la EVE or several other smaller titles.

 

No, my opinion is that of games that are complete.  They hold basic fundamentals of software design present, and they do not cut corners or omit basic features in order to deliver a product in a rush and make a quick profit.  Don't bother arguing this, there isn't a counter argument.  The game is being rushed out the door, probably due to poor planning, so they can recoop some costs.  This is the first time this has ever happened in the industry.

I'm not INSISTING on anything.  I'm saying a little extra work (and some of the additions people complain about are literally MINOR additions) goes a LONG way.  They didn't produce this game for the hell of it, they need it to make money too.  Why limit your income by not putting a little pride in your work and doing things the right way.

This has amazing potential, as a whole.  It was poorly and hastily done, and will suffer tremendously.  Eve has a Niche Base, I played Eve for years, their fans are dedicated and concise in their opinions.  Eve is a complete game.  You won't find things unexplained, lacking tooltips or UI development, or generally leaving people completely in the dark.  The information is right there in the game ready for you to access.

What "Wow formula" are you talking about, anyway?  The formula of success?  Sorry for expecting someone developing a product to have finished it before marketing it.

 

You know, it's a basic, fundamental principle of humanity that  a person's opinion cannot - by the definition of the word opinion - be wrong.

 

But somehow, you managed.

 

First of all, I'm not really sure what you were expecting from this game. It's NOT a WoW clone, like Warhammer <insert superior self-satisfied snicker, followed by directly conflicting butt scratch and burp>. It's a survival-oriented city-building sandbox MMO. Your bitch is the lack of tooltips? Here's an idea; figure it out. Radical, I know, but almost everyone else who is playing the game knows exactly what everything in the game does. Try asking someone. Try looking at the game manual. Try playing the game, you'll get the hang of it eventually. 

 

Second, learn what the hell you're talking about. You likely did absolutely no research, which is not surprising, but extremely annoying, especially when you come on the forums spewing the same old canned vitriol. Xsyon is a very well done game. Everything that has been implemented has been done so based on forethought and community feedback, and has been done so with an overall goal in mind.

 

You're saying the game was hastily pushed out to make a profit? Yeah. That's why everyone gets two free months of play (two and a half, now, actually). The game was suppose to release exactly as it is now. Stop throwing out dumbass arguments when you're reasoning for seeing an incomplete game is that they don't have tooltips and a tutorial.

 

Jordi made no attempt at marketing whatsoever - this furor that's been stirred lately is purely based on people liking the game, then coming here and talking about it. Notice, no articles, no interviews, no banners at the top or bottom of the page. Also, notice, I said Jordi, not "Notorious Games." Notorious games is Jordi, and a couple Russians he sends some of the extra design work out to. You don't work 20 hour days because you give any sort of damn about money.

 

Oh, and the "WoW formula" he's talking about is your idea of a complete game; you know, hand holding, kill ten rats, uberl33t gear, no thought whatsoever. I take it your biggest problem is that, since the game bears absolutely no resemblance to WoW (or perhaps that one game nobody plays anymore, what was it, Warscrewdriver or something?) you have absolutely no idea what to do. And just because you apparently have no problem-solving or deductive skill doesn't mean the game isn't functional. It more than likely just means you're a moron.

 

In my palm I hold the world, in my hand I grasp it.
I loosened my fist but for an instant,
and thus I failed to clasp it.

  SlyLoK

Elite Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 1103

3/10/11 8:18:54 PM#35

Some of these replies remind me of Darkfall...

Now that the viral marketing is done this board should soon return to normal.

  maskedweasel

Tipster

Joined: 9/24/07
Posts: 7286

"Kids, try imagining how far the universe extends! Keep thinking about it until you go insane."

3/10/11 10:32:16 PM#36
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Some of these replies remind me of Darkfall...

Now that the viral marketing is done this board should soon return to normal.

mm, I'm not one to market a game as something its not.  While *some* of the points the OP has is valid.. the game has a number of issues.. I think, as most players do,  he's swinging the axe way too hard here and missing a lot of what players are finding enjoyable about the game.

 

While no game is for everyone,  I'm finding quite a bit of merit in this title,  and I'm willing to put up with a little bit of incompleteness due to the nature of the system.  Understand, I would not be playing something I didn't find fun or enjoyable.  To me, his issues are just those -- issues.  Sometimes players can look past flaws like that and still enjoy a game -- hell we all know he must have looked past tons of flaws to be a Warhammer correspondent,  and other flaws are incredibly gamebreaking for some.

 

Originally when looking at this game I was turned off by the horrid PvP.  Eventually I was sick of hearing about the game second hand and gave it a shot on my own.  My review of the game went over thoroughly what problems I encountered and what I perceived as being issues,  but in the end,  my enjoyment outweighed my frustration.

 

Call it impatience if you want because  I don't choose to wait around for a game to be perfect before playing it.   All that matters is that those that do play it, enjoy their play time,  unlike many I've read on the MO boards paying for a game to keep it on life support while Star Vault gets their game together.     

 

I don't know why people want to invest money in a game that isn't worth playing right now,  and from my play time in Xsyon,  it was worth my investment.  

"Loan me a Dragon I wanna see space"


  burning

Novice Member

Joined: 2/09/04
Posts: 10

3/10/11 11:38:43 PM#37
Originally posted by maskedweasel
Originally posted by SlyLoK

Some of these replies remind me of Darkfall...

Now that the viral marketing is done this board should soon return to normal.

mm, I'm not one to market a game as something its not.  While *some* of the points the OP has is valid.. the game has a number of issues.. I think, as most players do,  he's swinging the axe way too hard here and missing a lot of what players are finding enjoyable about the game.

 

While no game is for everyone,  I'm finding quite a bit of merit in this title,  and I'm willing to put up with a little bit imcompleteness due to the nature of the system.  Understand, I would not be playing something I didn't find fun or enjoyable.  To me, his issues are just those -- issues.  Sometimes players can look past flaws like that and still enjoy a game -- hell we all know he must have looked past tons of flaws to be a Warhammer correspondent,  and other flaws are incredibly gamebreaking for some.

 

Originally when looking at this game I was turned off by the horrid PvP.  Eventually I was sick of hearing about the game second hand and gave it a shot on my own.  My review of the game went over thoroughly what problems I encountered and what I perceived as being issues,  but in the end,  my enjoyment outweighed my frustration.

 

Call it impatience if you want because  I don't choose to wait around for a game to be perfect before playing it.   All that matters is that those that do play it, enjoy their play time,  unlike many I've read on the MO boards paying for a game to keep it on life support while Star Vault gets their game together.     

 

I don't know why people want to invest money in a game that isn't worth playing right now,  and from my play time in Xsyon,  it was worth my investment.  

Finally someone hits the nail on the head! You can sit here posting all the bad stuff about the game or all the good stuff...but at the end of the day its the person sitting behind the computer screen that matters. If the game is fun its fun, if its not well...you move on.

Not every game is going to be something you enjoy, but if you find that one stick to it and support it

(also im not a fanboy im just someone who found a game that he enjoys, nothing more)

  vladww

Novice Member

Joined: 10/05/04
Posts: 430

There are 3 kinds of people - those who can count, and those who can''t.

3/11/11 4:40:20 AM#38

Very accurate post by the OP

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Playing : Uncharted Waters Online
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  Mothanos

Hard Core Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1887

3/11/11 5:00:07 AM#39

If your company suffers from sponors and gifts to create mmo's you have deadline's, its money what those managers want.

They do not understand the world of development and you see that in almost each mmo launch, and not only mmo's Killzone3 is also a nice example.

If you are in demand of funds you need to work faster and harder and longer, and the dangers are you are overlooking the big picture of creating quality.

 

rush rush rush and make stock holders happy with proftis $$$$$$$$$$$$

Take Ncsoft for example, they create so many mmo's and when they launched the support for those games are realy realy bad.

Aion from Ncsoft had so much anticipation here in the Eu and USA, they had a fantastic launch, and where on the way to a solid player base.

But community wanted a little more then running a dung 500 time for a simple drop they needed.

They wanted a little less grind for exp and a little faster gearing up.

They should have listened to the community when it was standing strong, but to little to late.

Half the people quited before reaching level 30.

 

Aion had realy good potantial, but bad support for Eu and USA market + $$$$$$$$$$ was more importand.

Warhammer released an Alpha staged game lulz,

Never ever going to buy a game from NCsoft again.

Never going to buy a game from Mythic again

Never going to buy a game from a branch that focus on initial $$$ and let the community drop death for it.

 

Blizzard and Arenanet dont suffer from deadlines alot like formentioned company's, and that is (i think) why they are creating much better quality games.

Ofcourse they run deadline's, but it is their own deadline not the stock holders pool that needs to go filled or you get fired mentality.

 

  gracefield

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/04/06
Posts: 284

3/11/11 5:33:26 AM#40
Originally posted by Spiider
Originally posted by Elmoren

I have played the game.  I am not an ex employee.  I like having a job, not working for a company that can't produce respectible products,

{mod edit}

Most people haven't come here to 'smash Xyson down', they're simply telling the truth about a game that isn't very good. It's a big bad world out there and at the end of the day, the majority of qamers don't really give a rat's ass about little indy developers or companies that are trying to break the mould or whatever - they want a game that's new and innovative and which works. You either provide that or you make room for the next guy.

That's commercial reality - yes, you'll get a hard core of players who'll put up with anything to see their dream realised, but they won't be enough to keep this thing afloat in the long term and to be perfectly honest, if a developer can't deliver at least the main section of a game on launch day and in working condition, then they shouldn't be launching at all. You wouldn't buy a half-finished car or an incomplete house, so why should you buy a game that still needs work?

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that as gamers, we're getting what we deserve in the MMO genre. We've been far to willing over the years to accept and pay for games that in reality weren't half-way out of beta. It's time we stood up and told companies to try a little harder - set realisitc launch dates and meet your commitments with games that work - or find something else to fill your day.

And as for other developers being afraid of Xsyon as this poster suggests, I hardly think there are too many of them quaking in their boots just at this stage. The game may well have "huge potential" as you suggest - but that's worth squat until they do something with it.

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