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City of Heroes

City of Heroes 

Paragon City Hall (General)  » Issue 20 and the future

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23 posts found
  Cyrosphere

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/09
Posts: 105

 
OP  3/02/11 7:01:27 PM#1

I dislike this sort of speculation as it tends to be ultimately estimation work, but it has been bothering me after this was brought up on another forum.

 

Let's look at some ugly numbers pulled straight from NCsoft's IR page. This is City of Heroes' historical profits.

 

2004 31,475 (incomplete year: 3 quarters)

2005 34,265

2006 25,016

2007 23,446

2008 24,217

2009 22,909

2010 15,787

 

Note the last one.

1Q 2Q 3Q 4Q

3,348 3,491 5,709 3,239

Total

15,787

 

Despite the launch of the Going Rogue expansion, they couldn't reach their projected goal of 19 million KRW (16.8 million USD) and made 15.7 million KRW instead (13.9 million USD), and in fact they actually sold LESS units than compared to over the summer. Granted, this may be in part due to Cataclysm and/or DCUO launching, but that's still painful.

 

Let's look at some other numbers here, which can be seen as either optimistic or pessimistic: Tabula Rasa's operational costs prior to it being shut down.

 

2007 (Game launched Nov 2, 2007)

4Q Total

5,019 5,019

 

2008

1Q 2Q 3Q 4Q

1,870 2,007 1,756 182

Total

5,815

 

The game was shut down on Feb 28, 2009, and there is no statistical sales listed on the investment sheets beyond an "Other" category.

 

So, currently CoH is running at around 16k. If TR was shut down at the 6k mark, if CoH continues to lose sales at the current rate, and rather than the previous trend of a couple thousand per year, there's a BIG drop from 2009 to 2010, City of Heroes may kick the bucket around early 2013. Several of the senior designers and staff got released last holiday, and while they claim they moved on, for all we know it could be a positive spin on corporate layoffs.

 

NCSoft doesn't dig F2P. Therefore, unless Q1 and Q2 2011 really pick up, things are looking rather grim and I may reconsider my urge to resubscribe.

 

Now WHY they don't allow people to host their own servers and keep games going under fan initiative is unfortunately in the legal swamp, but there's my quick look into the crystal ball.

Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.

  OSF8759

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/27/07
Posts: 289

3/04/11 12:00:27 PM#2

The comparison to Tabula Rasa is especially scary, but keep in mind TR was a brand new title with a lot of money to try to make back, and at the revenue rates it was seeing that was never going to happen. Also, Garriott and NC did not get along well at all, as evidenced by the legal entanglements that ended their association. Garriott took NC to the cleaners, which is too bad because he made a really bad game for them. There's no way, in my opinion, he should have walked away with millions of dollars like he did.

Now, CoH is a completely different animal. It's long-since been profitable and made its initial investment back, so there is a lot more wiggle room for loss of revenue. Worse comes to worst, maintenance-mode can maintain the game for another 5-10 years easily. The more likely option is the game will go F2P. You rightly note NC does not seem to be a fan of the model, but recent successes in the industry with the model means NC at least has a third option to keep the game going and potentially make it more profitable.

IMHO, what doomed Going Rogue is that it's only 1-20 content. Technically, the endgame is a feature of Going Rouge, but if you play through the expansion the endgame doesn't feel like a part of the expansion at all. GR should have been 1-50, but there probably just wasn't the financing to support that, or, "conspiracy theory mode on" the 20 levels we got cost way too much to develop so GR had to be unintentionally truncated. Most likely, the fincancing just wasn't there for anything more than 20 levels. One hopes for the 20-50 gap to be filled, but realistically, that's never going to happen.

You shouldn't base your decision whether to come back or not on if you think the game will be shutting down in 2013. It's a good game, you will have fun if you resubscribe, and you should resub no matter what happens in 2013. Personally, I think the game will be running well into 2014 and beyond. At the very least concurrent players are at previously high levels even if revenues are in the dumpster. You can come back to the game and have at least two years of fun. Why the heck not? At least give it a try!

  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

3/06/11 4:58:18 PM#3

I feel that this thread is very appropriate, given that, I too was thinking about this lately.  As it has been mentioned already, City of Heroes isn't a sunk cost that hasn't recovered its initial start up costs, like Tabula Rasa.  Furthermore, Lineage 1 is still around, so as long as the game generates positive income, I think it will be around. 

But, with that said, I think Going Rogue expansion was a mistake in the same vein with City of Villains.  More specifically, the content was limited,  and there are late game powers (I20) that were/are restrictive to character concepts as it runs counter to the spirit of the game, which has always promoted individualism, and uniqueness.  To be blunt, I think that the Paragon team needs to continue to build on existing content they have as it will require very few resources.  I think if they continue to focus on end game, that it will drain too many resources away from other areas of the game that are not finished (eg bases, base raids, PVP, power pool customization, epic pool customization, new power sets, power proliferation, new costumes, etc).  As a result, they will continually bleed away players, because end game raiding is a small segment of the MMORPG population IMVHO.  Some players like MMORPG's due to crafting, exploration, role playing, PVP, barter/trading/economic, etc.

Free to play, I think is out of the question, given its population size is still substantial at the moment, but by 2013, it may appear to be a strong option.  Honestly?  I am not impressed with Issue 20, because many of the players that left are probably wanting more expansion of the game they used to love, not necessarily an end game that the game never had before.   I don't like this "all the eggs in one basket approach" the Paragon team is forging forward with Going Rogue, and the last two issues, and Issue 20.  If you are a player that doesn't care about end game, there is not much reason to continue to subscribe to CoX unless you still are having fun with the existing content.  The new TF's under 50 are nice though, but Issue 20 is bare bones for anyone not interested in this game.  Bare bones isn't luring customers to come into your shop to sit down and eat.  The Paragon team needs to find a way to have people step in that door...

 

 

 

 

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

3/07/11 9:12:23 AM#4

Waffle paragraphs waffle.  The new producer is making waves as far as I am concerned there is now an endgame, the game is solid incarnate is being worked on nicely and the game can fit in your life.  If you want to be hardcore go ahead but a casual person with one or two characters can keep up and still be a name somebody you like to play with.  Unlike many other games where you have to sacrifice the majority of your evenings and weekends to just about keep your spot to gain said loot.

I like the direction this game is going in I like the new content I am consuming.  I put to you waffler's that instead of being a dead door nob this game is in fact a rising pheonix with systems that people can really get their teeth into.  You design your character your way in your play style and your methods no Im not simply talking about power choice I am also talking about the incredibly deep power customisation methods through enhancement sets and then ontop of that the inarnate choices for your alpha slot.

  Cyrosphere

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/09
Posts: 105

 
OP  3/07/11 10:00:43 PM#5
Originally posted by Hoplites

I feel that this thread is very appropriate, given that, I too was thinking about this lately.  As it has been mentioned already, City of Heroes isn't a sunk cost that hasn't recovered its initial start up costs, like Tabula Rasa.  Furthermore, Lineage 1 is still around, so as long as the game generates positive income, I think it will be around. 

But, with that said, I think Going Rogue expansion was a mistake in the same vein with City of Villains.  More specifically, the content was limited,  and there are late game powers (I20) that were/are restrictive to character concepts as it runs counter to the spirit of the game, which has always promoted individualism, and uniqueness.  To be blunt, I think that the Paragon team needs to continue to build on existing content they have as it will require very few resources.  I think if they continue to focus on end game, that it will drain too many resources away from other areas of the game that are not finished (eg bases, base raids, PVP, power pool customization, epic pool customization, new power sets, power proliferation, new costumes, etc).  As a result, they will continually bleed away players, because end game raiding is a small segment of the MMORPG population IMVHO.  Some players like MMORPG's due to crafting, exploration, role playing, PVP, barter/trading/economic, etc.

 

Lineage 1 may be old, but keep in mind it's also bringing in 167 million USD compared to City of Heroes' piddly 14 million USD. The baseline for operation is ultimately one of profitability. CoH is barely making more than Guild Wars, which brings in revenue purely from box set sales.

 

I do agree with your second point. Issue 20 is currently up in the air for how much it will actually deliver on end-game content, and everything you've pointed out are just as requested features of the game, and if they are not addressed soon, it will be the existing player base, not any new potential newcomers, which will be alienated. Forums such as this are all the proof anyone needs that CoH doesn't have mainstream appeal and is a niche market (no longer an exclusive one either), and must focus on satisfying its existing customer base before attempting to expand.

 

Originally posted by OSF8759

IMHO, what doomed Going Rogue is that it's only 1-20 content. Technically, the endgame is a feature of Going Rouge, but if you play through the expansion the endgame doesn't feel like a part of the expansion at all. GR should have been 1-50, but there probably just wasn't the financing to support that, or, "conspiracy theory mode on" the 20 levels we got cost way too much to develop so GR had to be unintentionally truncated. Most likely, the fincancing just wasn't there for anything more than 20 levels. One hopes for the 20-50 gap to be filled, but realistically, that's never going to happen.

This is the main reason I haven't bought Going Rogue, I don't really care about new low level content unless I can play through it with my existing characters (I'm tired of rolling alts frankly, it's a tough transition when you're used to IO'd higher level characters, not to mention you physically cannot get to Praetoria with existing characters though they said they'd change this sometime).

I was expecting a full fledged new game world like City of Villains, not a new tutorial zone.

Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.

  Kaocan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 1312

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

3/07/11 10:23:40 PM#6

Guys, I love CoX, been in it since day one, but you have ot be realistic here. This game has been a niche game since the start, and has successfull been in the black ever since. Sure its not a WoW profit maker but it has been a success the entire time, for 7 years. Its had a great run, as much as I would not want to see it go away, I would have to be honest in saying it will always be a game I have great memories from. CoX has never been a failure to its fans and players (well except for that AE mess) and isnt that what its all about?

As long as CoX still makes them enough money to keep them in the black and justify the paychecks to the team working it it will be there. Eventually though even the good die off. Just dont count CoX dead yet. The competition for super hero MMOs have all been hit and miss so far, CoX has already outlived even those most recent additions to that line.

(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

3/08/11 4:06:41 AM#7
Originally posted by Cyrosphere
unless I can play through it with my existing characters (I'm tired of rolling alts frankly, it's a tough transition when you're used to IO'd higher level characters, not to mention you physically cannot get to Praetoria with existing characters though they said they'd change this sometime).

 

What nonsense some of you come up with A LEVEL 50 CAN GET TO PRAETORIA THROUGH POCKET D PORTAL.  People dont post here anymore because they are probably on the main forums for the game much like WoW people are.  Its posts and threads like these with tid bits of wrong information that really push people who play the game away.  Imo going rogue was an awesome pack but details I can thump out will be lost on people in this thread.  Going rogue isnt just a game addon its the entire game for new comers as well.

Don't like it don't play it, the game is successful plenty of press is still honed in on this game or did you miss massively's animal pack give away?

Yes this game will likely finish when CoX 2 is launched end of, its been going for more than half a decade and the best content for the endgamer progressor is in the process or has been launched.

Kaocan I actually like AE, if you refer to the farmers  well there will always be farmers in any game at least with CoX people trade each other rather than use a paid for illegal service like in wow. Just the other day I used the AE to make missions for my son to rescue his irl love interest from a teacher he isnt fond of and his best friend in a jester suit.  This for me was an epic gaming moment. 

  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

3/08/11 8:20:43 AM#8

Everyone posting in this thread really likes CoX, so I don't think we are trying to bad mouth it by any means.  Anyways, Going Rogue was designed, from my view, to attract new players. It is a similar approach that Blizzard took with Cataclysm, trying to entice new players to join the game, or give existing players a new starting area.  But I have to agree that if they continue to expand on Incarnate content they have to fill the gap between 20-50.   Blizzard has conceeded, that, the content between BC and WotLK areas isn't up to date with the new Cata content, so they have to revisit it at some point.   When introducing an end game with a massive story arc, you have to try to cover all the bases.

I think adding end game content is more than fine for CoX as long as power proliferation, epic pool, and power pool customization isn't put on a back burner which at this point I am officially concerned.  My hypothesis of the sudden decline of revenue is probably correlated with the sudden focus on Incarnate content, because I believe a big draw to the game over the years has been the new costumes, and auras, which is why packs are very popular.  But now that packs are being released as micro transactions, and the lack of new costumes in a free Issue, this is a concern, and may be a residual sign that Paragon team is trying to increase their profitability.   The vanguard costume set isn't new, and to obtain it now globally on your account, you require a consistent subscription from Mid Feb to mid April.  Vanguard costume pieces are cool, but Issue 20 for example needs to offer new costume pieces.

I don't remember if Lineage 1 NA is still around, but I know that Lineage 2 NA is still around, and it has a far more smaller population than CoX (Cox probably is 3-4 times larger).  NCSOFT is willing to keep the lights on as long as they feel it fills a niche in their lineup.  Seeing that CoX is the only Super Hero MMORPG they have, I think that it will still be around.  But the game definitely is at a cross roads with the current Issue 20.  Issue 20 is uncharted waters when it comes to what it offers, as it brings content that may not satisfiy a lot of the existing player base, possibly some, and based on Going Rogue, I don't think it brought in a lot of new players.  To be truthful, I have not seen anything in Issue 20 that requires a NDA, so if they are holding  back content for Issue 21, I highly recommend they reconsider.  Issue 20 is building the foundation for end game content, so it is understandable that its focus would be on Incarnate content, but Incarnate content is not the entire game, only a small segment of it, so they need to increase the areas they hit with Issue 20, or 21.  What I mean by that, is costumes, new powers, etc, something that can be used by all of the player base, and may attract a customer.  More importantly, to keep up with their competition (Champions Online) which has become Free to play recently, and DCOU which offers an innovative way to upgrade costume pieces cosmetically while retaining the stats from my view.

 

  Kaocan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 1312

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

3/08/11 9:16:06 AM#9
Originally posted by Wicoa
Originally posted by Cyrosphere
unless I can play through it with my existing characters (I'm tired of rolling alts frankly, it's a tough transition when you're used to IO'd higher level characters, not to mention you physically cannot get to Praetoria with existing characters though they said they'd change this sometime).

 

What nonsense some of you come up with A LEVEL 50 CAN GET TO PRAETORIA THROUGH POCKET D PORTAL.  People dont post here anymore because they are probably on the main forums for the game much like WoW people are.  Its posts and threads like these with tid bits of wrong information that really push people who play the game away.  Imo going rogue was an awesome pack but details I can thump out will be lost on people in this thread.  Going rogue isnt just a game addon its the entire game for new comers as well.

Don't like it don't play it, the game is successful plenty of press is still honed in on this game or did you miss massively's animal pack give away?

Yes this game will likely finish when CoX 2 is launched end of, its been going for more than half a decade and the best content for the endgamer progressor is in the process or has been launched.

Kaocan I actually like AE, if you refer to the farmers  well there will always be farmers in any game at least with CoX people trade each other rather than use a paid for illegal service like in wow. Just the other day I used the AE to make missions for my son to rescue his irl love interest from a teacher he isnt fond of and his best friend in a jester suit.  This for me was an epic gaming moment. 

 AE is great now yes. But if you were around for its launch, and seen the effect on the game as a whole you would knwo what I'm talking about. I think they took a large hit on thier fan base when that occured, there was a mass exodus from the servers shortly after it hit and most didnt come back until months after they fixed it. Dont missunderstand my comment there, AE is a great innovation in any game, but as it was originally implimented it allowed too my exploitation. It changed the course of the entire game and it created a huge negative impact on the player base until it was fixed.

Oh and yes you can get into Preatoria thru the D, that was added shortly after GR came out.

(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  SwampRob

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/05/07
Posts: 1010

3/08/11 9:39:54 AM#10
Originally posted by Wicoa

Waffle paragraphs waffle.  The new producer is making waves as far as I am concerned there is now an endgame, the game is solid incarnate is being worked on nicely and the game can fit in your life.  If you want to be hardcore go ahead but a casual person with one or two characters can keep up and still be a name somebody you like to play with.  Unlike many other games where you have to sacrifice the majority of your evenings and weekends to just about keep your spot to gain said loot.

I like the direction this game is going in I like the new content I am consuming.  I put to you waffler's that instead of being a dead door nob this game is in fact a rising pheonix with systems that people can really get their teeth into.  You design your character your way in your play style and your methods no Im not simply talking about power choice I am also talking about the incredibly deep power customisation methods through enhancement sets and then ontop of that the inarnate choices for your alpha slot.

I've been with CoX since launch and only recently cancelled by sub.    The reason was precisely the new direction the game has taken.

With the last expansion; you now have to buy it to continue your character to level past 50 (technically speaking).   And, you are severlely slowed down for not grouping for this new content.      

CoX has always been the most solo-friendly MMO I've ever played.   It is also the only MMO I know of where it was very possible to get the best loot in the game without forcing a player to group to do so.    I truly mean, the only one.    

They have finally broken away from this and it makes me sad.    I have 70+ character, 3 fully decked out bases, and billions of influence.     But I'm gonna let it go stale and just have my fond memories of the game now.   

*Sorry about the large font, my eyes aren't what they used to be.

  Luv_bug

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 121

3/08/11 10:19:04 AM#11

I really think the decline in subs is because of the departure from coh's superhero roots. People who played this game embraced goodness and being superpowered, but every move they make makes players less truly good and less powerful. It began with the nerfs, having shown up after the golden age of coh I have only heard the stories of those mighty heroes of the past but things like pulling and tanking an entire zone(I have seen that video), 12 phants(6 phantom army, 6 phantasms), being able to max out at 21 fire imps etc are beyond the wildest dreams of the mediocre and often outmatched so called heroes of i5 and beyond. Couple that with the diminishing return mechanic introduced in i6 and you had a mass exodus on your hands. That is not what the players signed up for and the numbers and the comments bare that out http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/16672-more-coh-nerfs-inc-wth.html . You can't sell one thing and then change it to a lesser thing and expect people to be willing to stay. Then they introduce CoV and made it mandatory to have to use HERO sg bases(???). I didn't sign up for that, and I don't wanna be held hostage to buying and playing something I don't want just to use what every other mmo includes automatically, guild halls. You'll notice, the effects of the 4 issues released in 2005 sent 2006 waaay down in terms of revenue. We didn't ask for nerfs and we didn't ask for vills, but got them both whether we wanted them or not. Then in 2007 they start doing things to make heroes and vills work together, not compete, not balance pvp, cooperate. Why would I want to work with vills against npcs, when I can work with heroes against npcs and/or vills? Again, profits go down. People who bought coh embraced being the good guy fighting evil, but everytime they tried to incorporate systems in which heroes and vills work together your virtual ideal was tainted and the immersion hindered, hence another monetary decline even despite adding new powersets. I personally hate vills and don't want to play with them, but fight and destroy them, so give me more opportunities to do that (despite them each being individually OP and still not getting nerfed) not team with them. This classic thesis-antithesis-synthesis is all too apparent whether it was the use of the ourobos as a universal fast travel method or the holiday events that, without fail, forced heroes and vills to play as allies, and honestly, took away from the game's possible growth. The same people play both sides so if we wanna buddy up we just choose one, but where's the ongoing war between good and evil really embraced? The one place it existed in game(pvp) was so nerfed that we might as well have been fighting with wiffle bats. Crazy, and as this merging trend continued soon villains, who now even summon demons , walk the streets of Atlas park, not as adversaries, but as full fledged citizen's. The synthesis is complete.  So now NCSoft begins its path down the oldest and most sinister of evil tropes, man becoming God. You think the slots are Alpha to Omega by coincidence? Whoever is behind coh knows some occult ideology to some degree whether its the WWs in the shape of an all seeing eye(from above), or the compass and name of the AE, Architect Entertainment. They now introduce something called B.A.F.(as in Baphomet). These things have no meaning to most people, but these esoteric ideas and concepts are rampant in certain strata of society, and represent the very things we see happening in coh, and the world, no more black and white good and evil, just Shades of Gray(i18).

2004 31,475 (incomplete year: 3 quarters)

2005 34,265

2006 25,016

2007 23,446

2008 24,217

2009 22,909

2010 15,787

 

Issues (free updates)

Issue # Title Main features Release Date
1 "Through the Looking Glass" Raised the level cap from 40 to 50, introduced new high level enemy groups and zones for these levels, and added a tailor feature allowing players to alter character costumes. June 9, 2004
2 "Shadows of the Past" Added cape and aura costume features, respecification, badges, and new zones (one of which included a secret dance club without enemies). September 16, 2004
3 "A Council of War" Introduced a new zone, replaced the Nazi-themed Fifth Column enemy group with the Council, added new giant monsters and zone events, added Peacebringers and Warshades, and added Ancillary Power Pools for characters above level 40. January 4, 2005
4 "Coliseum" Introduced player versus player (PvP) content in the form of an arena, and also added costume options such as finer tuning of body and face scale. May 4, 2005
5 "A Forest of Dread" Introduced a new folklore-themed zone, with several new associated enemy groups, as well as new powersets based on archery and sonic powers. August 31, 2005
6 "Along Came a Spider" Updated the game client's graphics engine, and added support for dual-core CPUs and 3D sound; it also introduced three shared PvP zones, and the ability for Super Groups to build bases. October 27, 2005
7 "Destiny Manifest" Raised the level cap for villains from 40 to 50, introduced the new zone for villains of that level range, "Patron Power Pools" (the villainous counterpart to heroes' Ancillary Power Pools), "Mayhem Missions" for Villains of all levels, new power sets for new Villains, and a fourth PvP zone, "Recluse's Victory". June 6, 2006
8 "To Protect and Serve" Introduced a Police Scanner for Heroes that provides repeatable missions (similar to the Villains' Newspaper) and "Safeguard Missions" (analogous to the Villains' "Mayhem Missions"), as well as a complete redesign of the Faultline zone and the Veteran Rewards system, which gives special "perks" to players based on how long their accounts have been active. A retail box was released after this update called "Good vs. Evil Edition". November 28, 2006
9 "Breakthrough" Introduced the Invention system and auction houses; it also revamped the game's single raid encounter and opened it to Villain players as well. May 1, 2007
10 "Invasion" Replaced the old Rikti Crash Site zone with a new Rikti War Zone area, featuring a new raid encounter and cooperative play between both Heroes and Villains. The Rikti enemy group was also redesigned, and a new world event was added in which the Rikti would stage a mass invasion of a random zone. July 24, 2007
11 "A Stitch in Time" Focused on time travel; it introduced the Flashback system for accessing or repeating game content beneath a player's level. It also added customizable weapon graphics for powersets which used drawn weapons, and new power sets based on dual blade wielding and willpower. November 28, 2007
12 "Midnight Hour" Introduced new magic and mythology themed zones, including one set in ancient Rome; the Arachnos Soldier and Arachnos Widow archetypes, and began "power proliferation" by which power sets unique to certain archetypes are made accessible to other archetypes. May 20, 2008
13 "Power and Responsibility" Added two new power-sets (Shields and Pain Domination), changes to power effects making them act differently in PvP situations, dual builds (Players can build and maintain two separate character builds on the same character), and leveling pacts (Players can level up two characters simultaneously in-game, even if one of them are offline). On January 2009, a retail box release was made of Issue 13 called "Mac Special Edition", which allowed computers running Mac OS X to play City of Heroes for the first time. December 2, 2008
14 "Architect" Added a Mission Architect feature allowing players to publish and play custom mission arcs. A retail box release was made after this update called "Architect Edition", available to both PC and Mac players.[10] April 8, 2009
15 "Anniversary" Announced on April 28, the date of City of Heroes' Fifth Anniversary. The update returned the Fifth Column as a enemy group in various zones and a Fifth Column centric Task Force & Strike Force. It also added Mission Architect features that didn't make the deadline for Issue #14, costume creator sets, new character faces, and the first free costume change emotes.[11] June 29, 2009
16 "Power Spectrum" Allowed players to choose the color/styles/animation paths for character power sets. This update also included more power set proliferation, added epic power pool choices, a new Sidekicking system, Level 5-24 altered to increase XP/influence rewards by 20%, minor changes to the Mission Architect, and a replacement of the difficulty adjustment system.[12] September 15, 2009
17 "Dark Mirror" An update to the graphics engine that fixed all older issues related to ATI cards, as well as added a new preset for high performance graphic cards called "Ultra Mode", several QoL updates, and a revamped Positron's Task Force. Issue 17 also permits CoH: Going Rogue preorder customers to play Dual Pistols and Demon Summoning power sets prior to the official release of Going Rogue.[13] April 28, 2010
18 "Shades of Gray" Introduces the tips system, an alternate method of getting missions via drops from foes, and opens trading between alignments and unites the Wentworth's auction house and the Black Market. Anyone with the Going Rogue expansion gets access to new power sets: Kinetic Melee and Electricity Control. This issue also re-introduces the Cathedral of Pain trial.[14] A retail box release was made of Issue 18 called "City of Heroes: The Complete Collection". August 16, 2010
19 "Alpha Strike" Issue 19 includes the first part of the new endgame changes referred to as the "Incarnate system". Issue 19 adds an Ouroboros task force that unlocks an "Alpha Slot" on Level 50 Characters. Two difficult task forces are available for characters who have gained an Alpha Slot. Changes include: Zone events in all Praetoria city maps, opening Praetoria to levels past 20, merging subways/ferries to include all destinations (across same alignment only), power animations, increased tip mission drops, mission architect enhancements, hazard zone badges, and making the Fitness Power Pool inherent to all characters.[15] November 30, 2010

Expansions (Paid updates)

 

Expansion Title Corresponding Issue # Release Date Summary (Paid features only)
City of Villains (Standalone) 6: Along Came a Spider October 2005 New Villain Player Archetypes, New Villain Character Tutorial & Villain Player Zones (Level 1-50), New Player vs. Player Zones, New Player-Created Superbase system.
City of Heroes: Going Rogue 18: Shades of Gray August 2010 Hero/Villain side-switching capability, New Praetorian Character Tutorial & Praetorian Character Zones (Level 1-20), New Power Sets.
  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

3/08/11 11:52:30 AM#12

Swamprob Im going to be cheeky and take a punt if u happen to be on the freedom server and u are truly leaving I would gladly take some of that inf and trust me its badly needed.  Send me a pm if ur up for it.

I also feel sorry you feel that way about the new content.

  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

3/08/11 3:25:45 PM#13

Other than the GDN/ED, which caused a massive drop, the game has been a consistent money maker until this past year.  But this recent drop is hard to explain, and to be honest I am not sure why it is happening, and all we can do is speculate.  I will say, that, if the drop is a way customers are voting with their wallets by being unhappy that Issue 18 didn't have enough Incarnate content, then, maybe Issue 20 (which is pretty much all Incarnate content) will bring them back, and cause a mini Renaissance of the game.  It could also be due to the economy, and many players choose to not subscribe to CoX as their second game, or choose to subscribe to just one.  It is possible those players return in 2011, but it is very early to tell what direction the game will go.  Issue 20, 21, 22, and possibly 23 will really determine the direction the game goes in 2011, and I hope the Paragon team is up to the task of delivering what they had in mind.

  Luv_bug

Novice Member

Joined: 1/13/11
Posts: 121

3/08/11 4:53:40 PM#14
Originally posted by Hoplites

Other than the GDN/ED, which caused a massive drop, the game has been a consistent money maker until this past year.  But this recent drop is hard to explain, and to be honest I am not sure why it is happening, and all we can do is speculate.  I will say, that, if the drop is a way customers are voting with their wallets by being unhappy that Issue 18 didn't have enough Incarnate content, then, maybe Issue 20 (which is pretty much all Incarnate content) will bring them back, and cause a mini Renaissance of the game.  It could also be due to the economy, and many players choose to not subscribe to CoX as their second game, or choose to subscribe to just one.  It is possible those players return in 2011, but it is very early to tell what direction the game will go.  Issue 20, 21, 22, and possibly 23 will really determine the direction the game goes in 2011, and I hope the Paragon team is up to the task of delivering what they had in mind.

 I think you just have to look at what coh has done and say that the devs ideas are not working. The players are reacting to the path the game is taking, so just like with the pvp nerf, the devs are not interested in what the players want no matter how much feedback you give them. The fact the additional content costs $20 and offers little more than the ability to be ambiguous in your alignment and get yet another type of merit was ridiculous. Fact is, as fast as people lvl and as many alts as they have, IF they want to play a vill, they will, if they want to play a hero, they will, nothing's stopping them so how many people really are gonna switch percentagewise and who the heck cares about being neutral?  Its not like it matters in pvp or if it did, that pvp is so huge in coh that people actually care what your alignment is. They need to also get away from the esoteric bullcrap and just be about letting superheroes be super instead of becoming so called "gods".

  therain93

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/01/06
Posts: 2048

"Racing to endgame is like racing to the end of your vacation."

3/08/11 7:40:02 PM#15

I won't argue with the numbers the OP cited, but merely state that they don't really seem to jive with the server loads that have been observed since Going Rogue went live. No explanation.

I also wonder why the OP's speculation about the game shutting down in 2013, basically 21 months away, would impact returning right now.  There are plenty of people playing, so I'd say give it a go.  Should the game shutdown in 2013, then that would be one nice long run, and certainly be missed by some of us.

Finally, although NCsoft has shied away from F2P in the past, I think this is going to change.  I say this for 2 reasons.  1 is that with the next big patch, City of Heroes players will be required to use the NCsoft launcher.  For those that don't know, it is the equivalent of the station pass launcher.  There had been rumblings in the past that NCsoft would release something similiar and this is another step closer.  2 is that the EULA for CoH has been modified, and now makes reference to NCsoft "NCcoin".  So, they're moving towards an xbox live/wii/gfwl point purchasing system it sounds like, which could be yet another bridge to f2p with item shop.

 

Anyhoo, I'm still happy in game, but anyone leaving, please pm me because I can use the inf  and I'll take your supergroup base too! ( ' :

  Cyrosphere

Novice Member

Joined: 2/02/09
Posts: 105

 
OP  3/08/11 10:42:24 PM#16
Originally posted by Wicoa
Originally posted by Cyrosphere
unless I can play through it with my existing characters (I'm tired of rolling alts frankly, it's a tough transition when you're used to IO'd higher level characters, not to mention you physically cannot get to Praetoria with existing characters though they said they'd change this sometime).

 What nonsense some of you come up with A LEVEL 50 CAN GET TO PRAETORIA THROUGH POCKET D PORTAL.  People dont post here anymore because they are probably on the main forums for the game much like WoW people are.  Its posts and threads like these with tid bits of wrong information that really push people who play the game away.  Imo going rogue was an awesome pack but details I can thump out will be lost on people in this thread.  Going rogue isnt just a game addon its the entire game for new comers as well.

I don't normally respond to irrational fanboi posts like yours, but re-read the portion of my text you quoted. As of the last time my account was active, you couldn't get to Praetoria with existing characters. I heard a dev comment that they were changing this.

I take it by your diatribe that this has now in fact changed, which if so is in fact great. Have they added Praetorian story content for levels 20~50?

 

Originally posted by therain93

I won't argue with the numbers the OP cited, but merely state that they don't really seem to jive with the server loads that have been observed since Going Rogue went live. No explanation.

...

Finally, although NCsoft has shied away from F2P in the past, I think this is going to change.  I say this for 2 reasons.  1 is that with the next big patch, City of Heroes players will be required to use the NCsoft launcher.  For those that don't know, it is the equivalent of the station pass launcher.  There had been rumblings in the past that NCsoft would release something similiar and this is another step closer.  2 is that the EULA for CoH has been modified, and now makes reference to NCsoft "NCcoin".  So, they're moving towards an xbox live/wii/gfwl point purchasing system it sounds like, which could be yet another bridge to f2p with item shop.


I'll give you a little industry insider secret as a former GM: load numbers on servers mean absolutely nothing, because they can be toggled at will by server side flags. While I doubt they would set some servers artificially to load level 2 just for giggles, keep in mind that such numbers prove very little if one does not know what hardware is associated to handle the service load being provided. I've also heard CoH devs state that the numbers indicate load, not player population, which is corporate semantics drivel: the two are almost synonymous if one equates population to concurrent logged in users.

Your second point does pique my curiosity however. I do know that CoH is if nothing else, NCSoft's generally most stable earner outside of Asia, so if they've integrated it with their launcher (though it could be just as easily removed I surmise from a coding perspective), it could be taken as a continued sign of product confidence.

Remember, it has to be fun to be a game. Grinding is a bedroom activity, and the point is definitely not to do my wife as fast as possible.

  Kaocan

Novice Member

Joined: 8/18/09
Posts: 1312

The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.

3/09/11 12:44:06 AM#17

The decline in CoX subs is in my opinion caused by the new direction as most here have already said. CoX has always been a game that did NOT have loot based progression in it at all, hell it barely had real progression. Thats what made it special and what made it the place everyone enjoyed.

Most are like me I will bet, we have several MMOs out there we play and have played over the years, but one thing always remained constant, CoX was our side game...ALWAYS. It didnt matter how long we were gone, we could always just jump right back in, hit up a group of any level, and get right back into the thick of it in minutes. Didn't matter if I was level 15, or 32, or 48, or 50, or if my friends were all level 50 for years, I could join up with them and fight side by side at ANY time.

This has all been possible because there was no progression, it was always, always just about playing the game, that was it. Now however, its getting progression....and its becoming just another grind fest, forced to stay all the time, can't come back and be on equal footing progression game. And it will lose more loyal fans the farther they push it this way.

Up until recently I maintained 2 full subs in CoX, from day 1 all the way through. I had every veteran badge on close to 70+ characters spanning 5 servers, 3 SG and 3 VG bases - HUGE bases too, left overs from top 10 SGs of the past that just I alone remained in at the end. I payed for the extra slots, I payed for every booster pack. But you know what, at i19....I let both those accounts and everything on them just go the way side.

I am sorry, but I have no interest to log in anymore and have to wrry how I'm going to hook back up with my raiding buds and make the attempt to catch back up just so I can have fun. Thats not what kept me there for almost 8 years. There is something to say about a game that doesn't have progression, too bad they are taking it away after all this time.

(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

3/09/11 6:28:56 AM#18

Cyro by claiming that I am a fanboi and irrational for proving one of your points wrong just shows how unreasonable you are with your strangely down posts, you are down on a game that really doesnt have much activity on these forums and you go to the lengths of attacking people who retort your claim/(s).  Who cares about margins and profit numbers except the company itself as a gamer it is the last thing I look at as long as the game is live and I enjoy I couldn't care less about profits and I think alot of "gamers" are with me on that thought.

You are unreasonably down and fight with statistics that really a government civil servant would come up with I have to worry as to your purpose.

This thread is just statistical troll bait anyway I am sorry I tried to add the perspective from someone who  enjoy's this game and games in general.  For example I played wow for quite sometime but I really couldnt give a monkey as to their profits's I play what I enjoy.

I give up let this thread die in a pile and I urge anyone else to just let it alone too.

  Hoplites

Novice Member

Joined: 6/08/06
Posts: 442

3/09/11 9:42:40 AM#19

This thread is a good discussion where many perspectives are presented.  I, personally, am still subscribed to CoX, and I don't plan on unsubscribing until they turn the lights off.  I have offered two perspectives as to the sudden decline which we haven't seen since GDN/ED, and both are possibilities.  Issue 20, and 21 are all about incarnate content, so we will find out which one of my hypothesis proves to be right soon enough.

Yes, it is true, that CoX has been moved over to the new launcher, and the Wisp aura is really awesome by the way.  But, I can see why some people are upset with the direction of CoX currently, and it is also possible many people that left were unhappy there was no end game.  When you quit, you fill out a survey, and it is possible that an end game was the most requested feature from the survey.  So, entirely possible the devs have moved in this direction based on this data.   But if you are an existing player, you don't have an opportunity to fill out this survey, unless you stop your subscription, so the double edged sword is at work here.

  Schmidty797

Novice Member

Joined: 3/09/11
Posts: 32

" I don't scream and kick and bitch when shit don't fall in my hands" - The Roots

3/14/11 5:36:11 PM#20
Originally posted by Wicoa

Waffle paragraphs waffle.  The new producer is making waves as far as I am concerned there is now an endgame, the game is solid incarnate is being worked on nicely and the game can fit in your life.  If you want to be hardcore go ahead but a casual person with one or two characters can keep up and still be a name somebody you like to play with.  Unlike many other games where you have to sacrifice the majority of your evenings and weekends to just about keep your spot to gain said loot.

I like the direction this game is going in I like the new content I am consuming.  I put to you waffler's that instead of being a dead door nob this game is in fact a rising pheonix with systems that people can really get their teeth into.  You design your character your way in your play style and your methods no Im not simply talking about power choice I am also talking about the incredibly deep power customisation methods through enhancement sets and then ontop of that the inarnate choices for your alpha slot.

Thats good to hear.

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