Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Garkan

I have met more psychopathic care bears playing MMOs than psychopathic pvpers, the care bears regularly make RL threats or promise to hunt you down IG until you quit and just generally torrents of abuse.

Its very sad really the way they cannot dissociate what happens in a game from real life and it seems like its been that way from the dawn of online games as the quote in the second posts dates from 1994! I would go one further and suggest anybody who makes claims of "PKers" or w/e you call it are unstable IRL has the same trouble telling the difference to.

Seriously if games drive you that crazy that you start believing that someone has mental health issues IRL because they killed you in a game you need to cancel your Internet subscription and do something else for a hobby.

A lot of "carebears" equate being PKd to having someone kick down their sand-castle or have someone walk by and knock all of the chess pieces off of the board.

They're just games, but it's still pretty frustrating for the victim when some complete stranger come by and basically destroy whatever enjoyment the victim was having prior to the incident.

Does it warrant death threats? Not by any means.

But at the same time, the fact that people being annoyed to the point where some of them are making threats agaisnt your life, should give you a hint that some people don't like to be bullied in an MMO anymore than they would like to be in real life.

Just because a person feels bullied in a game doesn't mean they are being bullied. It just means they made a bad choice in servers/games

A lot of people can't handle PvP because they have a romantic idea of what PvP is until reality hits them. I don't see that as being the fault of anybody but themselves.

Today yes, if you don't want to PvP don't play a game that forces PvP.

This was not always the case however, when choice in MMOs and/or server rulesets were extremely limited.

But as I've said, if PvPers are going to play the "suck it up, that's how the game is" card, they need to live with the fact that their games are never going to have a very large population.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Garkan

I have met more psychopathic care bears playing MMOs than psychopathic pvpers, the care bears regularly make RL threats or promise to hunt you down IG until you quit and just generally torrents of abuse.

Its very sad really the way they cannot dissociate what happens in a game from real life and it seems like its been that way from the dawn of online games as the quote in the second posts dates from 1994! I would go one further and suggest anybody who makes claims of "PKers" or w/e you call it are unstable IRL has the same trouble telling the difference to.

Seriously if games drive you that crazy that you start believing that someone has mental health issues IRL because they killed you in a game you need to cancel your Internet subscription and do something else for a hobby.

A lot of "carebears" equate being PKd to having someone kick down their sand-castle or have someone walk by and knock all of the chess pieces off of the board.

They're just games, but it's still pretty frustrating for the victim when some complete stranger come by and basically destroy whatever enjoyment the victim was having prior to the incident.

Does it warrant death threats? Not by any means.

But at the same time, the fact that people being annoyed to the point where some of them are making threats agaisnt your life, should give you a hint that some people don't like to be bullied in an MMO anymore than they would like to be in real life.

Just because a person feels bullied in a game doesn't mean they are being bullied. It just means they made a bad choice in servers/games

A lot of people can't handle PvP because they have a romantic idea of what PvP is until reality hits them. I don't see that as being the fault of anybody but themselves.

Today yes, if you don't want to PvP don't play a game that forces PvP.

This was not always the case however, when choice in MMOs and/or server rulesets were extremely limited.

But as I've said, if PvPers are going to play the "suck it up, that's how the game is" card, they need to live with the fact that their games are never going to have a very large population.

PvP was never mainstream. It never will be. I also believe it's the one thing holding sandbox games back from being truely successful

Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Garkan

I have met more psychopathic care bears playing MMOs than psychopathic pvpers, the care bears regularly make RL threats or promise to hunt you down IG until you quit and just generally torrents of abuse.

Its very sad really the way they cannot dissociate what happens in a game from real life and it seems like its been that way from the dawn of online games as the quote in the second posts dates from 1994! I would go one further and suggest anybody who makes claims of "PKers" or w/e you call it are unstable IRL has the same trouble telling the difference to.

Seriously if games drive you that crazy that you start believing that someone has mental health issues IRL because they killed you in a game you need to cancel your Internet subscription and do something else for a hobby.

A lot of "carebears" equate being PKd to having someone kick down their sand-castle or have someone walk by and knock all of the chess pieces off of the board.

They're just games, but it's still pretty frustrating for the victim when some complete stranger come by and basically destroy whatever enjoyment the victim was having prior to the incident.

Does it warrant death threats? Not by any means.

But at the same time, the fact that people being annoyed to the point where some of them are making threats agaisnt your life, should give you a hint that some people don't like to be bullied in an MMO anymore than they would like to be in real life.

Just because a person feels bullied in a game doesn't mean they are being bullied. It just means they made a bad choice in servers/games

A lot of people can't handle PvP because they have a romantic idea of what PvP is until reality hits them. I don't see that as being the fault of anybody but themselves.

Thats true!

But I have a romantic idea of what PvP is, and I really believe it can come true!  We just need the correct game mechanics to encourage more fair PvP and discourage ganking.  Ganking can even be possible still in these games, but just discouraged.

I can think of a lot of ways to implement this and you can probably too.  Some simple, some very complex (but fun).

I agree though that it is annoying when people whine about PvP servers or PvP MMORPGs.  I like to choose PvP servers and I know that ganking is going to come along with that, it is totally worth it to be a on a PvP server.  It is not ideal though; far from that romantic PvP ideal that I feel a game can accomplish.

Originally posted by kitarad

I like how most of you have portrayed yourselves as humanitarians and real all round nice guy who love to PK for all we know you could be a hitman.

 

All this thread managed to show is that it takes all kinds of people to play a player killer.

If it managed to show that, then the thread is a success as far as I am concerned.

I'd be the last to deny that some socially inadequate jerks call themselves "PvPers". All I want is recognition that not everyone or even the majority of those of us who like to pit our wits against real people are sociopaths.

To answer the question in the topic. Its not so much about what someone does, but more about what the reason is for doing it.

So yeah, I think a PKer/ganker can be a nice person or an asshole. Totally depends on what their reason for ganking is.

I usually have my doubts about the gankers who just are out to destroy other ppls fun. Partypoopers are douchebags usually in my experience :p

On the other hand, the ganker that expects it can happen any moment to himself and simply enjoys the thrill of the hunt or being hunted, can be a very nice person in rl. That one just looks at it as some kind of sports.

The partypoopers usually set the tone for a FFA PVP game though.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Garkan

I have met more psychopathic care bears playing MMOs than psychopathic pvpers, the care bears regularly make RL threats or promise to hunt you down IG until you quit and just generally torrents of abuse.

Its very sad really the way they cannot dissociate what happens in a game from real life and it seems like its been that way from the dawn of online games as the quote in the second posts dates from 1994! I would go one further and suggest anybody who makes claims of "PKers" or w/e you call it are unstable IRL has the same trouble telling the difference to.

Seriously if games drive you that crazy that you start believing that someone has mental health issues IRL because they killed you in a game you need to cancel your Internet subscription and do something else for a hobby.

A lot of "carebears" equate being PKd to having someone kick down their sand-castle or have someone walk by and knock all of the chess pieces off of the board.

They're just games, but it's still pretty frustrating for the victim when some complete stranger come by and basically destroy whatever enjoyment the victim was having prior to the incident.

Does it warrant death threats? Not by any means.

But at the same time, the fact that people being annoyed to the point where some of them are making threats agaisnt your life, should give you a hint that some people don't like to be bullied in an MMO anymore than they would like to be in real life.

Just because a person feels bullied in a game doesn't mean they are being bullied. It just means they made a bad choice in servers/games

A lot of people can't handle PvP because they have a romantic idea of what PvP is until reality hits them. I don't see that as being the fault of anybody but themselves.

Today yes, if you don't want to PvP don't play a game that forces PvP.

This was not always the case however, when choice in MMOs and/or server rulesets were extremely limited.

But as I've said, if PvPers are going to play the "suck it up, that's how the game is" card, they need to live with the fact that their games are never going to have a very large population.

I'm OK with that. The MMO ecosystem is large enough to allow plenty of niches.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Anubisan

Originally posted by Maelkor

The question can a pk/ganker be a nice person in RL? The short answer for me is probably not. The same personality traits that cause an individual to get enjoyment from ganking someone are also the same traits that tend to make an individual self centered. That does not mean they cant be sociable and part of an "in" crowd, however, as people grow up and become adults and "in" crowds are not quite so important those same traits will usually cause that person to become lonely as people no longer have a social reason to hang out with them unless they change in some form or fashion.

I can't disagree with this post more. Dude, we're talking about games here! Seriously... I know several people in real life who are absolutely vicious in games. Yet, these same people are some of the nicest and most caring friends I have ever had.

Reality != game world.

Here is some logic that sums things up quite well.

A lot of gamers here seem to be in need of a serious reality check. These are bloody games, don't forget that.

At least it's a good way to spot posters you can imediately dismiss in other posts with such a warped reality sense. I wouldn't trust their judgement on anything after an insight to how they think, in this thread

Fibben, I don't even totally understand whos side you are on with this post, lol.

I think Anu saying that Reality != Game World is definitely true, but he is missing the point of why ganking would be looked at as stupid/wrong/annoying.  Most people who do not like ganking and wish others would gank less do not think that the game world is reality, that is not why they think it is wrong; that is a strawman argument.

The game world is not reality.  But the social interactions within the game are real interactions between real people, and therefore there can still be negative and positive interactions, and bring happiness or unhappiness to the users, and therefore there is a moral choice associated with social gaming.  (Trash talk and PvP could be a positive interaction if both users accept it as so, etc).

Yes, it is true that interactions in MMOs are between real people. But, with the exception of cheaters, those interactions are never beyond the scope of a game and the rules that define it. When a gamer decides to play a game where non-consensual PvP is allowed, they are not justified to become overly upset when someone endulges in that type of activity. It is part of the game and should be expected as such. It's like someone playing Tekken in an arcade and getting pissed off that another player kicked their ass. Yeah its annoying and it cost them a quarter, but that's the game and that is what they should have expected the moment they started.

The reason why it is wrong would be that it is disrupting and annoying others with no positive reprocussion.  You are being abnoxious for the sake of being abnoxious.  The game is not real but the annoyance and loss of time that the gankee experience are real.  Morally speaking (adopting a utilitarian viewpoint), you should probably avoid actions that cause others to feel annoyed or lose time, unless those actions also carry with it something positive that makes the action worthwhile.

I tend to agree with you when it comes to the morality of ganking players for the sole purpose of causing them grief. This behavior is asshole-ish and morally questionable, but still I feel there is a big difference between messing with another player in a video game and trying to ruin someone's day in real life. The post I was responding to originally was arguing that any PKer/ganker was probably a bad person in real life... an assertion that I whole-heartedly disagree with.

The action of ganking carries with it a positive feeling in the ganker, probably, which could be argued to be why ganking is morally OK.  Yes it makes the other player feel annoyed and wastes their time, but that is within the confines of the game (and therefore they agreed to accept such transactions) and you as the ganker get a lot of pleasure out of ganking so the action is morally positive overall.

But we should probably look deeper into why the ganker gets pleasure out of ganking, which goes back to my last post...  The ganker probably gets pleasure out of ganking because the ganker is a bit messed up in the head (not trying to insult; everyone is messed up in the head to some extent). 

It doesnt take a lot of psychological hang-ups to get someone to enjoy ganking in a video game; after all, its just a game, and the moral situations we face in a game are insignificant to those we face every day in real life.  It doesnt really matter much AT ALL, very very little.  Which makes it much easier to make morally wrong choices, since it matters so little...  Much like tossing a plastic bottle in the trash instead of recycling bin.  Such a tiny thing; such a no-biggie.

But if we are only enjoying the ganking because we have low self esteem or some other mental hang-up, then that would arguably void the morality of the action.  I think this is the case...

I don't agree. I think many people gank other players simply because they see them as an enemy in a video game and they enjoy the act of combatting real players more than NPCs. This is why I personally tend to love PvP. But then again, I am not the type of gamer who would go out of my way to try and ruin someone's day (the jury's still out on these folks). I usually look for relatively fair fights and, once the fight is over, I tend to leave the other player alone unless they come back for revenge. Its just a game to me... and honestly I think it should be for everyone. In my opinion, it is the ones who take things too seriously in a video game who are the troubled individuals... not the casual PKer/gankers.

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by Garkan

"Eve is a perfect example of this. There is a vast non-PvP portion to the game ranging from mining, crafting, trading, etc, however there is still a considerable side of PvP with the game. There are no other games like Eve, and only one shared server for it, so there's only one ruleset. This is where problems occur, because different portions of the playerbase want different things. The PvEers generally want to PvE in peace, while many of the PvPers would love for all space to become zero sec so they could potententially hunt down and pod every single player..."

No....... Absolutely no, nobody in EVE can "PvE in peace" everything a player does affects every other player, they affect the economy and they devalue some items and inflate the cost of others, a mission runner will dump loyalty store items on the market which makes them cheaper and they inject minerals into the economy making those cheaper while items missions runners commonly use will go up in price.

So if they can affect me I should sure as hell be able to affect them in return.

Face, meet palm.

My point was that entirely excluding any PvP aspect of Eve, the game has several gameplay mechanics and aspects that players purely interested in PvE would, and do, enjoy. In fact, it's many of those PvE oriented players that keep the game's economy churning out new ships, weapons, and munitions for PvPers to blow each other up with.

Eve is a unique hybrid in that it needs both PvEers and PvPers to survive. Take away the PvP and the PvE quickly becomes meaningless. Take away the PvE and the PvP likewise becomes irrelevant. The point is that the two need to be balanced so that PvEers can do their PvE thing without being screwed every step of the way, hence why there is sec space.

Needing care bears is a fallacy many pvpers and lots of players have industrial alts and most production beyond basic T1 involves nullsec and wormhole space, moon materials and reactions come purely from low/nullsec and nullsec alliances tie up most of their production.

The skills for T1 production can be trained in a few weeks so again the carebears are 100% useless, even parasitic as the real players would benefit from better margins if the carbears disappeared.

We do agree on one thing though your post was fairly face>palm inducing.

Originally posted by A1x2e3l

In case Being determines Consciousness, what sort of mentality can develop such individual?

 

“Education is the art of making man ethical.” (“Philosophy of Right”, Hegel).

 

What MMOs are teaching than?

 

 

In case Consciousness determines Being, what sort of a person/individual is a PKer? 

 

“Be a person and respect others as persons.” (ibid)

 

Should MMO developers be more careful, and obligatory protect other players? Are PvP only MMORPGs with humanoid-PCs ethically justified?

 

 

I do not think that certain games could be directly related to RL criminal actions and I have nothing against controlled and artistic adult content in MMOs, but I am really puzzled with the growing numbers of rude anti-social MMO players (PKers, gankers, blockers, team-killers, etc.). I guess game developers should pay more attention to game design/content in this respect and consider what social impact their products might have.

 

What do you think?

I truly enjoy the role of gankers.  I enjoy the challenge they set upon me, the challenge that I need to become stronger or smarter in order to block and counter their attack.  Looking back at games I play (where I gravitate to the pvp servers) some of the best experiences I've had was those 1v1s while leveling or farming mats where it was an equal fight and skill determined the winner (and sometimes a little luck - RNG for the lose?). Those were fond memories.

I guess I should add that while I have ganked people in the past, I pretty much leave people be at this point.  I tend to wait for people to initiate the fight nowadays.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Solestran

Originally posted by Sovrath

Of course they can be nice people.

If a game advertises ffa pvp and ffa pvp where people can be pk'ed/pk at any level then I would assume that players who don't mind this game play will want to play it.

In Lineage 2, if I saw a wartag I would pk them no matter the level. I would never bad mouth them or insult them, I would just take them out.

PKer is defined as someone who PvP's in a manner that ruins the gameplay of their victims.  A completely different scenario than a free for all PvP game, where most people tend to fight others in the context of the game and don't grief specific individuals or areas for hours at a time.

 

Edit:  Hence the reason why most people are called PvPers and certain individuals are labeled as PKers.

Well, whenever I was killed by a wartag or killed someone who was a war tag it was always called "pk". Player Kill.

I still stand by my statement which is that any game that has ffa pvp where any level can pk a significantly lower lvl player should only be played by the people who don't mind that type of thing.

I just don't understand why players who hate this type of thing would play a game where it was allowed?

I think they want the "experience" or "thrill" of that kind of environment, but don't want the "risk" of it.

To add a little more about gankers - I think gankers can be perfectly nice people in real life.  I mean its not like they are ganking people in real life, right?  They are playing an online game and doing it.  Trully no harm done when the game allows ganking and player killing.

Originally posted by Anubisan

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by Fibbin

Originally posted by Cecropia

Originally posted by Anubisan

Originally posted by Maelkor

The question can a pk/ganker be a nice person in RL? The short answer for me is probably not. The same personality traits that cause an individual to get enjoyment from ganking someone are also the same traits that tend to make an individual self centered. That does not mean they cant be sociable and part of an "in" crowd, however, as people grow up and become adults and "in" crowds are not quite so important those same traits will usually cause that person to become lonely as people no longer have a social reason to hang out with them unless they change in some form or fashion.

I can't disagree with this post more. Dude, we're talking about games here! Seriously... I know several people in real life who are absolutely vicious in games. Yet, these same people are some of the nicest and most caring friends I have ever had.

Reality != game world.

Here is some logic that sums things up quite well.

A lot of gamers here seem to be in need of a serious reality check. These are bloody games, don't forget that.

At least it's a good way to spot posters you can imediately dismiss in other posts with such a warped reality sense. I wouldn't trust their judgement on anything after an insight to how they think, in this thread

Fibben, I don't even totally understand whos side you are on with this post, lol.

I think Anu saying that Reality != Game World is definitely true, but he is missing the point of why ganking would be looked at as stupid/wrong/annoying.  Most people who do not like ganking and wish others would gank less do not think that the game world is reality, that is not why they think it is wrong; that is a strawman argument.

The game world is not reality.  But the social interactions within the game are real interactions between real people, and therefore there can still be negative and positive interactions, and bring happiness or unhappiness to the users, and therefore there is a moral choice associated with social gaming.  (Trash talk and PvP could be a positive interaction if both users accept it as so, etc).

Yes, it is true that interactions in MMOs are between real people. But, with the exception of cheaters, those interactions are never beyond the scope of a game and the rules that define it. When a gamer decides to play a game where non-consensual PvP is allowed, they are not justified to become overly upset when someone endulges in that type of activity. It is part of the game and should be expected as such. It's like someone playing Tekken in an arcade and getting pissed off that another player kicked their ass. Yeah its annoying and it cost them a quarter, but that's the game and that is what they should have expected the moment they started.

The reason why it is wrong would be that it is disrupting and annoying others with no positive reprocussion.  You are being abnoxious for the sake of being abnoxious.  The game is not real but the annoyance and loss of time that the gankee experience are real.  Morally speaking (adopting a utilitarian viewpoint), you should probably avoid actions that cause others to feel annoyed or lose time, unless those actions also carry with it something positive that makes the action worthwhile.

I tend to agree with you when it comes to the morality of ganking players for the sole purpose of causing them grief. This behavior is asshole-ish and morally questionable, but still I feel there is a big difference between messing with another player in a video game and trying to ruin someone's day in real life. The post I was responding to originally was arguing that any PKer/ganker was probably a bad person in real life... an assertion that I whole-heartedly disagree with.

The action of ganking carries with it a positive feeling in the ganker, probably, which could be argued to be why ganking is morally OK.  Yes it makes the other player feel annoyed and wastes their time, but that is within the confines of the game (and therefore they agreed to accept such transactions) and you as the ganker get a lot of pleasure out of ganking so the action is morally positive overall.

But we should probably look deeper into why the ganker gets pleasure out of ganking, which goes back to my last post...  The ganker probably gets pleasure out of ganking because the ganker is a bit messed up in the head (not trying to insult; everyone is messed up in the head to some extent). 

It doesnt take a lot of psychological hang-ups to get someone to enjoy ganking in a video game; after all, its just a game, and the moral situations we face in a game are insignificant to those we face every day in real life.  It doesnt really matter much AT ALL, very very little.  Which makes it much easier to make morally wrong choices, since it matters so little...  Much like tossing a plastic bottle in the trash instead of recycling bin.  Such a tiny thing; such a no-biggie.

But if we are only enjoying the ganking because we have low self esteem or some other mental hang-up, then that would arguably void the morality of the action.  I think this is the case...

I don't agree. I think many people gank other players simply because they see them as an enemy in a video game and they enjoy the act of combatting real players more than NPCs. This is why I personally tend to love PvP. But then again, I am not the type of gamer who would go out of my way to try and ruin someone's day (the jury's still out on these folks). I usually look for relatively fair fights and, once the fight is over, I tend to leave the other player alone unless they come back for revenge. Its just a game to me... and honestly I think it should be for everyone. In my opinion, it is the ones who take things too seriously in a video game who are the troubled individuals... not the casual PKer/gankers.

I think we are coming from almost the same direction, because I sometimes fight those that are probably weaker, but I tend to look for fair fights too.  When I say that ganking is morally wrong, I am talking about attacking a player when you are extremely certain you will win...  Lets say over 95%.

Its just a game and I don't take it seriously either.  I think it is wrong to gank but its not a very big deal, I have friends who like to gank, and I do it on ocassion...  I like to argue with my brother about it the most, because he likes to kill lowbies then camp them for 30 minutes or so, which is excessive and more immoral than shooting down an enemy lowbie as you run to your next quest.

My main question for you is, if you see lowbies as just another enemy in a video game then why don't you just run by them the way you run by lowbie NPCs?  It is more fun to fight enemy players than enemy NPCs, but that is because they are unpredictable, intelligent, more of a challenge, and satisfying to win against due to knowing they are more equal to you than stupid AI.  But lowbie players are not unpredictable-  They run away almost every time.  Nothing they can do is challenging or very intelligent, because theres no intelligent way to fight against a gank, the only intelligent thing to do is not fight at all (run away or stand still).  The only satisfaction I see comes from exerting dominance over another being.  So when you say that people gank because 'they see them as an enemy in a video game and enjoy combatting real players moer than NPCs', I don't believe that is the real reason.

Moving on, you said that: 'When a gamer decides to play a game where non-consensual PvP is allowed, they are not justified to become overly upset when someone endulges in that type of activity'.

I agree that they are not justified to become 'overly upset'.  But they are going to be annoyed and even 'upset' (although if they start whining/complaining I would slap them).  Two factors lead to them being annoyed:  Game mechanics and the player who ganked them.

I would like to see more game mechanics in MMORPGs that encourage fair world PvP and discourage ganking.  Maybe dishonor points for ganking that labels you to the community as a ganker.  Or giving honor points for /dueling with lower levels instead of ganking them (and dueling would automatically adjust the levels to be fair).  That way when you see a lowbie you can gank them or you can get rewards for /dueling them.  Since they know they'll die if they don't accept the duel they will always accept it, and they will have a fighting chance to win because duels could be adjusted for level.  These are just a couple ideas on the top of my head.  Theres other annoying things about MMORPG game mechanics for developers to worry about so I get it if MMORPGs do not make more of an effort to eliminate ganking.

The second factor leading to the gankees annoyance is the ganker.  Thats why I hope gankers make the morally correct choice to not annoy their fellow players even though the game mechanics allow for it.  It is within their right to be a ganker since everyone agreed to play the game, but they are still being annoying/mean for no real gain, which is stupid.  And I hope people see that and point them out/tell them they are stupid for ganking.

/totally off-topic

I have to log now but I wanted to say about the OP...  lol @ the Hegel quote.  Hegel was such a nutter.  I took a class about him in undergrad and learned nothing, everything he says is riddles and non-sense, and any one sentence of his writing only would make any sense in context of his entire mode of thought which is partially why I learned so little and see him as a such a nutter- His mode of thought was ridiculously complicated.  Our professor never even considered that we as students would even begin to understand Hegel, and he basically just graded us on effort.

But IMO the only way to understand Hegel is to immerse yourself so into his writing that you become insane as well.

Sort of like a religion or cult, you don't understand it because you havent accepted it, but once you accept it you cannot question it because you have already accepted it??

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by jusomdude

Originally posted by sungodra

Originally posted by jusomdude

I think many people who do PK have some sort of RL issues. Even if they're taking virtual property or ending another's virtual life, the fact that they get some sort of real pleasure out of it and don't care about the victim shows they have some issues.

The fact is, they are preying on other people without any kind of empathy and it gives them pleasure. Twisted? You decide.

Also, I don't think how a person acts in real life is really any indication of how stable they are. There are serial killers that can appear to be the nicest person in the world.

 OMG...

 

The game gives you abilities to use against your enemy.  So if you use them , then all of a sudden that makes you  the same as a serial killer? 

 

Maybe there is something wrong with the people that are saying stuff like this?

 

PVP is a large part of most games, and the only reason some people even play them. It is like a sport for some.  It is competitive in nature. It's like playing mortal kombat with your friend and then crying on the forums because you got killed.

Your reading comprehension isn't very good. I wasn't saying PKing makes you the same as a serial killer, I was saying taking pleasure at another's misfortune isn't a sign of a healthy individual.

 

What about the millions of people who love to watch those bloopers videos of idiots riding bikes off roofs and such like? Are they all latent serial killers too, just waiting, waiting for their chance to strike? Have YOU ever watched such a clip, even on youtube, and laughed? If you have, you're basically Ted Bundy #2!

Seriously man, get over yourself. There's nothing more normal than laughing at someone else's misfortune, assuming the misfortune is essentially trivial. Like, for instance, losing a few e-pixels in a game - how much more trival can a misfortune be?

And if you dont find such things essentially trivial, then I'd propose that it's you with whom there is something wrong.

Is there a reason you're trying to make this personal? I guess what I said may apply to you?

BTW, you've taken what I said about the serial killer all wrong, I wasn't even relating people who PK to serial killers. What I said about serial killers was a whole different point.

Ya I've laughed at people getting hit in the junk etc, which isn't the same as getting a thrill out of hitting someone in the junk yourself.

People who are the source of another's grief and take pleasure in it, have some sort of issues... which I guess I have to clarify for you that doesn't make them on the edge of becoming a serial killer. But they surely are real dicks/ not nice people.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

But I would like to hear how a healthy person could get enjoyment out of killing someone in a game who is vastly inferior to them level-wise?  I have gone on and on about how I think it is linked to feeling superior than the gankee, and that is linked to some unhealthy mental attribute like low self-esteem...  What are some other reasons why someone might enjoy killing lowbies repeatedly with no real difficulty?

You're thinking in terms of level-based design in EQ/WOW-style MMOs, so that probably contributes to your lack of familairity with other reasons. In most MMOs, a new character or a crafting character is a weak piece of garbage that really isn't worth anyone's time. They can't contribute to the economy, they are worthless in combat when fighting anything 6 or 7 levels above them, they can't make or gather anything of significance.They're pretty frikken useless to everyone.

In EVE, that 'weaker' character could be a scout or a tackler. That 'crafter' or 'miner' is affecting your bottom line on the market. He is affecting your enemy's access to supplies or he may even be directly supplying your enemy. As the other poster said, everything you do in EVE makes a difference. Every character's actions have impact.

Now, if we were talking about WOW, I could almost understand your point. A low level character can't harm you. There's no way to trade between sides or even to talk to each other's side. There's no point gain from killing low level characters and there's no loot to be gained. They're worthless so there's really no other reason to kill them other than 'they were there' In the end, though, there's no penalty for dying in PVP so even if you do punt their useless asses off the battlefield, it's not like it affected them anyway.

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Originally posted by Garkan

I have met more psychopathic care bears playing MMOs than psychopathic pvpers, the care bears regularly make RL threats or promise to hunt you down IG until you quit and just generally torrents of abuse.

Its very sad really the way they cannot dissociate what happens in a game from real life and it seems like its been that way from the dawn of online games as the quote in the second posts dates from 1994! I would go one further and suggest anybody who makes claims of "PKers" or w/e you call it are unstable IRL has the same trouble telling the difference to.

Seriously if games drive you that crazy that you start believing that someone has mental health issues IRL because they killed you in a game you need to cancel your Internet subscription and do something else for a hobby.

EDIT

"Eve is a perfect example of this. There is a vast non-PvP portion to the game ranging from mining, crafting, trading, etc, however there is still a considerable side of PvP with the game. There are no other games like Eve, and only one shared server for it, so there's only one ruleset. This is where problems occur, because different portions of the playerbase want different things. The PvEers generally want to PvE in peace, while many of the PvPers would love for all space to become zero sec so they could potententially hunt down and pod every single player..."

No....... Absolutely no, nobody in EVE can "PvE in peace" everything a player does affects every other player, they affect the economy and they devalue some items and inflate the cost of others, a mission runner will dump loyalty store items on the market which makes them cheaper and they inject minerals into the economy making those cheaper while items missions runners commonly use will go up in price.

So if they can affect me I should sure as hell be able to affect them in return.

Those psychopathic carebears are obviously idiots and as someone who is against ganking I would like distance myself from them completely, lol.

But I would like to hear how a healthy person could get enjoyment out of killing someone in a game who is vastly inferior to them level-wise?  I have gone on and on about how I think it is linked to feeling superior than the gankee, and that is linked to some unhealthy mental attribute like low self-esteem...  What are some other reasons why someone might enjoy killing lowbies repeatedly with no real difficulty?

And again, I don't think this 'unhealthy mental attribute' is necessarily a serious problem.  This is just a game we are talking about, not a major moral offense, and I wouldn't make the claim that all gankers need to see a psychologist or something...  Maybe they just need to do some self reflecting as to why they enjoy causing annoyance to other players.

Well I can tell you from experience that at a certain point, you don't even register them as players. You see, In WoW I got used to randomly fire blasting little lvl 1 squirrels, toads, and other critters while running from place to place because it was simply fun to use the ability.

Well the same pastime while running around sort of equated to players as well. Running from one point to another, if you saw a player off the side of the road minding his own business, you just fire blasted him, or whatever. I didn't really think about it.

Guess that makes me a sociopathical gamer. I'm not a psychopath because i'm not that way from birth, but I deffinetely felt indifferent about it at the time. I think a lot of it has to do with the decensitization of violence in video games, among other things.

That fact is probably trippled in my case along with the apathy, because I deal with death IRL on a fairly regular basis. In order to be used to death you have to learn to either numb your emotions until later, or begin to feel apathetic towards death in order to do your job in the most logical and productive manner.

A MMORPG is an interactive public form of an artistic entertainment. Influence of Art on a human is well known. On the other hand, nobody is talking loud in a theater. So, I am “blaming” not only people (players) but game design (developers) as well. However, it is better to start from yourself (us, gamers). What is formally possible does not mean that it should be realized. IMO this is also valid in virtual reality. Once being a murderer means a murderer forever: if someone enjoys (allows himself/herself) disturbing another human in a MMO, “ruin his game” he will not hesitate under suitable circumstances to do that in RL because another person does not exist for him, his will, his last crazy desire/dream has the priority. I wish I would be wrong.

Originally posted by A1x2e3l

A MMORPG is an interactive public form of an artistic entertainment. Influence of Art on a human is well known. On the other hand, nobody is talking loud in a theater. So, I am “blaming” not only people (players) but game design (developers) as well. However, it is better to start from yourself (us, gamers). What is formally possible does not mean that it should be realized. IMO this is also valid in virtual reality. Once being a murderer means a murderer forever: if someone enjoys (allows himself/herself) disturbing another human in a MMO, “ruin his game” he will not hesitate under suitable circumstances to do that in RL because another person does not exist for him, his will, his last crazy desire/dream has the priority. I wish I would be wrong.

Basically this.   If your enjoyment of or reason for playing a game is to ruin others fun, without provocation, then you are a d-bag, both in the game and in rl.    Period.  

However, I do think that game designers need to take some of the blame.   In rl, there are consequences for being a jerk.   They might be mild, such as ppl flipping you the finger, or you might get punched out or go to jail, depending on your level of a-holeness.     Games need to do this too, in an unexploitable way.    Basically, if you continue to be a jerk to others, the penalties should ramp up to the point where your character is locked away or executed.     I would love to see a game do this.   A penalty where repeated bad behaviour earns you a reputation that causes you to avoid the law and/or bounty hunters.    If caught, that character (not the account) would be unplayable for a while (thrown in prison) or possibly deleted if your crimes were egregious enough.

This would allow for all the freedom of choice this type of player demands, but put truly punitive disincentives in place for such actions.    To be fair, in such a game, I think you'd have to allow for full looting.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Basically this.   If your enjoyment of or reason for playing a game is to ruin others fun, without provocation, then you are a d-bag, both in the game and in rl.    Period.  

However, I do think that game designers need to take some of the blame.   In rl, there are consequences for being a jerk.   They might be mild, such as ppl flipping you the finger, or you might get punched out or go to jail, depending on your level of a-holeness.     Games need to do this too, in an unexploitable way.    Basically, if you continue to be a jerk to others, the penalties should ramp up to the point where your character is locked away or executed.     I would love to see a game do this.   A penalty where repeated bad behaviour earns you a reputation that causes you to avoid the law and/or bounty hunters.    If caught, that character (not the account) would be unplayable for a while (thrown in prison) or possibly deleted if your crimes were egregious enough.

This would allow for all the freedom of choice this type of player demands, but put truly punitive disincentives in place for such actions.    To be fair, in such a game, I think you'd have to allow for full looting.

Such a game exists. It's called Dransik. When a criminal is caught, they're sent to Prison Island with the rest of the criminals and they serve out a sentence there. The criminal can mine inthe rocks in the quarry to reduce their sentence some, but since they're trapped on an island with others like them, it's highly liekly they will be PK'd, looted and have to fight back and forth just to stay alive long enough to work off the sentence so that they can return to the general populace.

Then again, there's always Roma Victor where they crucified criminals and left them hanging there in public to serve their 'ban time'. Actually, their first crucifixion was exactly five years and one month ago :

Source: http://www.gamershell.com/news_29017.html

ohaitherr. I Pk in every game i played. I camp, i spawn kill, and wait for hours for you to come out of hiding, ill even pay people to tell me where you are. (: Im a nice person though. :D