Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by stayontarget

Originally posted by tub0rg

Is that supposed to be an argument?

They said they tested it in what form or shape ever, and thats your argument against raiding in gerneral?

You did realize I didn’t exclusively talk about tera right?

you also might want to look up tactic and strategic in the dictionary, cause i can see the combat being  more involving, reflex based and intuitive but not tactical or strategic.

 ~OP, sorry to go off-topic~

@ Tub0rg:

I am curious about your post, could you give me some references on some of those Tactical / strategic instances.  I am wondering because I have always found content that involves instances to be canned / boringly scripted incounters that has little to do with tactics and very little strategy after you have done it more than twice.  I think it's mostly due to the weak AI of the mobs.

On the other hand, I find OW encounters with bosses far more tactical and strategic as long as there is the possability of a pvp encounter during the fight.

Please don't view my post as an attack on your view because it's not (there is no right or wrong answer), and I really don't feel like getting into a "slap fight" here on the forums.

 

cheers

I don’t see the difference to scripted Raid encounters in let’s say WoW or Aoc to the scripted dungeon encounters in Tera, except for the more reflex based combat, which is without a doubt different but I don’t see how it it’s supposed to be more tactical. Evading boss hits by moving out of a zone is nothing new just because it works different in tera doesn’t make it more tactical, Aoc has no direct heals so positioning to get healed is as important as it will be in tera. Having to target the mob with the mouse is not more tactical, more intuitive and involving yes. 

 

As I said instance raids are PVE content, open world raids are PVP Content if there wasn’t the possibility to get ass raped by some other guild who want that xx hour spawn loot goddess there would be no point in them, since you can just bring enough people to zerg the encounter to death.

 

 

Of course Encounters get boring if you know them and grind them to death, when I was playing wow, burning crusade, we did the last boss in a raid maybe 3 - 4 times, and went to the next harder raid. Who said you should run the same raid for 6 months.

 

And to that other guy who said raiding was boring since you just get told what to jada jada, of course it’s fucking boring if you’re just getting told what to do or read how to kill a boss. The whole point is to find a way how to defeat him. The boss should be so hard that there is no way in hell you can defeat him with tank and spank so that you’ll have to cut corners, be creative how to defeat him. Of course it sucks if you’re just a tool who gets told where to stand and what to do.

 

The whole raiding equals zerging in tera I mean you can understand the developer, they develop the game in Korea, there are no pve servers in the Korean version of tera, they don’t have a pve rule set. Of course why would they be thinking about instance raiding in a pvp oriented game? I really hope I’m wrong about this, since I do like the art style and I like the combat, but I really fear that the whole pve rule set is just an afterthought for them.

I'll give you one example: you have to target heals. What do you do as a raiding healer in other games? You click the square icon of X player and heal him during a boss fight without even knowing where the fuck he is. Now try to comprehend how heal targetting would work in a 20man group in Tera. I'd say close to impossible but you are welcome to find a way to make it work yourself. Until then, I'm simply going to say that end-game instances in Tera are more exciting than raids in other MMOs.

No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

After raiding for years, I don't mind no raids. If I had to choose between 1 raid and 10 group instances, I'd pick the group ones.

Originally posted by judex99

No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

I take it you've only played WoW?

Originally posted by paterah

Originally posted by judex99

No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

I take it you've only played WoW?

Never played that game, please try again.

The small group instances, where movement and skill of every player counts are the best thing about a MMO.

The 24-player-instances in WoW sucked and it didn't matter if two or three people died there actually. 10-player-instances were quiet OK, but you got to take into account, that TERA is FPS-combat and not a hardlock-key-spamming-festival.

I can live without the big raids and it's allways more fun to go into smaller instances with a few good friends of yours instead of a bigger group where you only know half the people personally.

Originally posted by Yalexy

The small group instances, where movement and skill of every player counts are the best thing about a MMO.

The 24-player-instances in WoW sucked and it didn't matter if two or three people died there actually. 10-player-instances were quiet OK, but you got to take into account, that TERA is FPS-combat and not a hardlock-key-spamming-festival.

I can live without the big raids and it's allways more fun to go into smaller instances with a few good friends of yours instead of a bigger group where you only know half the people personally.

Well, some people here (e.g. above) are claiming that an MMO cannot exist!!! if there are no raids of 25 people meeting up every night at approximately 8 p.m. to kill a grounded dragon under a roof. I'm sorry but if this is your definition of end-game then it's simply downright wrong.

If you look at some of the footage from 2 years ago it is clear they were at one time planning raids that were hardly anything but zerg fests. If you skip to the end of this video you can see 5 or 6 lancers lining up to form a wall while sorcerors tossed fireballs over the tanks. It seems like a lot coordination would be required too execute this raid properly. I hope they manage to put it back in the game at some later release.

As i said before, for what we know atm, end game content will be mainly the political system with clan warfare, bg, pvp, raids, and territory control.
But when they unlock the last 10 levels in K Tera and full end game content we will have surely more info about this system and how it work in detail. Just be patient.

Originally posted by judex99

No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

I laughed so hard while reading this one.

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

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Originally posted by DarkPony

 

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

---

Only for those who actually enjoy waiting for Thomas to get back from afk again raiding.

And after that all we can rant about Thomas in the guild forums... how can you say thats not fun? :)

Seriously, less content is less no matter how blind some people are on this forums or any others, if tomorrow a company removes group content from a MMO im sure some crazy people will agree too... so maybe you think is ok to remove group content too because someone can go afk and the rest of the group should wait for him?

I just feel the game lacking in the end game part, we will see how it is when gets released here, but they should think twice about this, and to be honest, i think they will.

Originally posted by judex99

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

---

Only for those who actually enjoy waiting for Thomas to get back from afk again raiding.

 

And after that all we can rant about Thomas in the guild forums... how can you say thats not fun? :)

 

Seriously, less content is less no matter how blind some people are on this forums or any others, if tomorrow a company removes group content from a MMO im sure some crazy people will agree too... so maybe you think is ok to remove group content too because someone can go afk and the rest of the group should wait for him?

I just feel the game lacking in the end game part, we will see how it is when gets released here, but they should think twice about this, and to be honest, i think they will.

Dude wake up! Its not like the remove raids and dont add anything at all.Just raids get replaced with 5man dungeons.I cant see why pve endgame has to include raiding to be viable.Go play rift allready and leave tera alone.

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by judex99

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

---

Only for those who actually enjoy waiting for Thomas to get back from afk again raiding.

 

And after that all we can rant about Thomas in the guild forums... how can you say thats not fun? :)

 

Seriously, less content is less no matter how blind some people are on this forums or any others, if tomorrow a company removes group content from a MMO im sure some crazy people will agree too... so maybe you think is ok to remove group content too because someone can go afk and the rest of the group should wait for him?

I just feel the game lacking in the end game part, we will see how it is when gets released here, but they should think twice about this, and to be honest, i think they will.

Dude wake up! Its not like the remove raids and dont add anything at all.Just raids get replaced with 5man dungeons.I cant see why pve endgame has to include raiding to be viable.Go play rift allready and leave tera alone.

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by judex99

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

---

Only for those who actually enjoy waiting for Thomas to get back from afk again raiding.

 

And after that all we can rant about Thomas in the guild forums... how can you say thats not fun? :)

 

Seriously, less content is less no matter how blind some people are on this forums or any others, if tomorrow a company removes group content from a MMO im sure some crazy people will agree too... so maybe you think is ok to remove group content too because someone can go afk and the rest of the group should wait for him?

I just feel the game lacking in the end game part, we will see how it is when gets released here, but they should think twice about this, and to be honest, i think they will.

Dude wake up! Its not like the remove raids and dont add anything at all.Just raids get replaced with 5man dungeons.I cant see why pve endgame has to include raiding to be viable.Go play rift allready and leave tera alone.

 

If they would truly release a new group dungeon about every 2 months to keep pve players happy I could see it work. But I highly doubt they will, alone from the development stand point this would be hard to keep up while maintaining quality.

 

And ultimately why shouldn’t they release 10 or 15  man raid dungeons, which would feel a lot more epic, and because they are harder to organize the content will last longer, giving the development team more time to create more content so people won’t get bored.

 

I mean the argument it’s not about the single player if you have 10 or 20 player raid is just retarded. I admit I don’t know how WoW is today, but there were numerous Raid bosses and even simple trash mobs that will wipe the entire Raid if one guy fucks up and I don't mean the main tank, I mean a simple dmg dealer not watching out.

 

Maybe the political system will have a great pve component that’s fun and engaging and all that, I can’t imagine what that would be, its seems much more likely that it is a pvp oriented feature especially since there are no pve servers in the Korean version of the game.

You haven't seen the level 50 dungeon of tera then.And yes they allready added 2 new dungeons last week allready.

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by tub0rg

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by judex99

Originally posted by DarkPony

 

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Originally posted by judex99
No raid content is less content no matter what you guys say, an end game without raids is like a cake without icing.

---

Only for those who actually enjoy waiting for Thomas to get back from afk again raiding.

 

And after that all we can rant about Thomas in the guild forums... how can you say thats not fun? :)

 

Seriously, less content is less no matter how blind some people are on this forums or any others, if tomorrow a company removes group content from a MMO im sure some crazy people will agree too... so maybe you think is ok to remove group content too because someone can go afk and the rest of the group should wait for him?

I just feel the game lacking in the end game part, we will see how it is when gets released here, but they should think twice about this, and to be honest, i think they will.

Dude wake up! Its not like the remove raids and dont add anything at all.Just raids get replaced with 5man dungeons.I cant see why pve endgame has to include raiding to be viable.Go play rift allready and leave tera alone.

 

If they would truly release a new group dungeon about every 2 months to keep pve players happy I could see it work. But I highly doubt they will, alone from the development stand point this would be hard to keep up while maintaining quality.

 

And ultimately why shouldn’t they release 10 or 15  man raid dungeons, which would feel a lot more epic, and because they are harder to organize the content will last longer, giving the development team more time to create more content so people won’t get bored.

 

I mean the argument it’s not about the single player if you have 10 or 20 player raid is just retarded. I admit I don’t know how WoW is today, but there were numerous Raid bosses and even simple trash mobs that will wipe the entire Raid if one guy fucks up and I don't mean the main tank, I mean a simple dmg dealer not watching out.

 

Maybe the political system will have a great pve component that’s fun and engaging and all that, I can’t imagine what that would be, its seems much more likely that it is a pvp oriented feature especially since there are no pve servers in the Korean version of the game.

You haven't seen the level 50 dungeon of tera then.And yes they allready added 2 new dungeons last week allready.

Originally posted by tub0rg

no matter how big the dungeon is, after 9 weeks running it every evening you will want something new.

 

You do realize that those 2 dungeons have been in production longer than 2 months? adding dungeons down the line means starting from scratch every two month, new concept new artwork, at least a few new models new items, new map layout. new boss scipts etc.

 

Even if they have  two teams working parallel its hard to imagine that they can dishout a meaning full lets say 10 boss doungen every 2 months.

Isn't it the same with raids?Can't see the difference between repeating a 5 man dungeon or a raid.

Originally posted by tub0rg

A dungeon you can do every night, you only need 5 guys so you can do it all the time.

 

For a Raid you need something between 10 and 40 people. so its much harder to organize, everyone has to have time normally you need a raid planner where people can plan ahead since not all have the same work hours, especially with the bigger raids, that was the main reason wow went from 40 to 25 player since 40 player raids were a bitch to organize.

 

so you can’t do it 7 days a week but maybe 2 or 3 (yeah of course there are raid guilds who do it every day but not the majority of players)

 

So raids become more important, since you only have a limited time to do those, people tend to prepare more for them. And often raids need preparation, since you have spare time till you can do them again.

 

So you trade the possibility to do them every day all the time, for a bigger, more epic fight, with much more people and rare loot, (obviously if you  need 40 people to get a drop from a mob it will be more rare then if you only need 5 people to do it, that doesn’t mean 5 player drops can’t be as important they truly can be)

 

And it truly feels epic when you’re standing beneath a giant boss with 39 people behind you trying to keep you alive and fucking that thing up before it can mush you. I know it is very unique view, but it truly feels different even between fighting with 40 or 25 people.

Of course it doesn’t matter if you’re only a hired hand who presses 4 different buttons. Raids should be brutally hard to beat; after all it’s the last pve content if you beat that there is normally nowhere to go.

Well, it felt more epic at lvl 20 dungeon in tera where i was tanking with 500 hp left and managed to dodge a giant's boss ability the last moment; and while i was in the air the priest managed to hit his heal on me.That felt truly epic.

On the other hand,if u feel epic doing a raid were at most times you just stand there afk spaming your heals/attacks/spells, its up to you.Of course you get phase 1 where you have to spread,phase 2 where you gather and phase 3 where you need to avoid the fire.That doesnt feel epic at all to me.

And as i said before.Watch the level 50 dungeon of tera.You will see for yourself.

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by tub0rg

A dungeon you can do every night, you only need 5 guys so you can do it all the time.

 

For a Raid you need something between 10 and 40 people. so its much harder to organize, everyone has to have time normally you need a raid planner where people can plan ahead since not all have the same work hours, especially with the bigger raids, that was the main reason wow went from 40 to 25 player since 40 player raids were a bitch to organize.

 

so you can’t do it 7 days a week but maybe 2 or 3 (yeah of course there are raid guilds who do it every day but not the majority of players)

 

So raids become more important, since you only have a limited time to do those, people tend to prepare more for them. And often raids need preparation, since you have spare time till you can do them again.

 

So you trade the possibility to do them every day all the time, for a bigger, more epic fight, with much more people and rare loot, (obviously if you  need 40 people to get a drop from a mob it will be more rare then if you only need 5 people to do it, that doesn’t mean 5 player drops can’t be as important they truly can be)

 

And it truly feels epic when you’re standing beneath a giant boss with 39 people behind you trying to keep you alive and fucking that thing up before it can mush you. I know it is very unique view, but it truly feels different even between fighting with 40 or 25 people.

Of course it doesn’t matter if you’re only a hired hand who presses 4 different buttons. Raids should be brutally hard to beat; after all it’s the last pve content if you beat that there is normally nowhere to go.

Well, it felt more epic at lvl 20 dungeon in tera where i was tanking with 500 hp left and managed to dodge a giant's boss ability the last moment; and while i was in the air the priest managed to hit his heal on me.That felt truly epic.

On the other hand,if u feel epic doing a raid were at most times you just stand there afk spaming your heals/attacks/spells, its up to you.Of course you get phase 1 where you have to spread,phase 2 where you gather and phase 3 where you need to avoid the fire.That doesnt feel epic at all to me.

And as i said before.Watch the level 50 dungeon of tera.You will see for yourself.