Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by gorro187

In all honesty think about this. Blizzard claims to have 12 million active subs? Yet they talk about the record 4.4 million sold copies of cataclysm? What about the 7.6 million other "active" subs? Clearly by blizzards own admission in a round about way they have not bought cataclysm? Somethings not right there. Not trolling just looking at hard facts as far as numbers blizzard themselves put out.

i always believed that game companies include non active subscriptions among the active ones when giving a subscription rate to the public so it looks more than it actually is actively playing.... but yeah blizz has many millions of subs, cata sold like 3.5 millions in 1 day, it went up to 4.4 i thin as of now.... i know a lot of ppl that plays wow and dont have cataclysm (planning to get it ) one of my ex guild mates even had only the up to the burning crusade coz didnt have the money to buy the Xpacs along with the subscription..... many ppl are in those shoes as well, im pretty sure about that.... and that doesnt mean the wouldnt get cata so..... they might / might not get it

In China, WoW players pay for chunks of time. As of 2007, factoring in the buying power of currency, Chinese players were paying the equivalent of 25 cents per hour. WoW China players pay the equivalent of $15 a month for 60 hours of gameplay, which translates to roughly 2 hours a day. Aside from the ultra-casual, many WoW China players are paying more of their income than you are.

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by XiThRyL

I'm not even too convinced the 2012 events will end this behemoth, lol

No but seriously it does seem like a trend that posts like this show up close to competing MMOs launching. I myself play WoW and will be getting Rift at launch, however I will stay subbed to WoW. I don't see this game going anywhere anytime soon.

We know that even if people do leave to go on their ways in Telara or where ever, soon as we here a new content patch is rolling around, most people will migrate right back.

Hmmm, I don't know.

Of course, you're right in that WoW isn't going anywhere. But I'd be surprised if all the upcoming MMO's didn't cause a drop off in sub numbers in WoW for at least the 2011 period. Even if it'd be for each new MMO 3-6 months, then that would mean the majority of months that a lot of MMO gamers will play at least 1 of these new MMO's, and a considerable part of that number that will cancel their current sub for that time period, whether that'll be WoW, Aion, etc.

The flaw in this logic is that for many players, WoW is their first MMO and last.

'only 30% go beyond level 10' -Blizz CEO

So where does the other 70% go? It certainly does not say in the MMO genre as the MMO market is not 36 Million+ players.

People try their first MMO WoW (cause MMO = WOW right now to the general public) and either play that or leave the genre completely, at least the vast majority does.

Originally posted by Omali

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by gorro187

In all honesty think about this. Blizzard claims to have 12 million active subs? Yet they talk about the record 4.4 million sold copies of cataclysm? What about the 7.6 million other "active" subs? Clearly by blizzards own admission in a round about way they have not bought cataclysm? Somethings not right there. Not trolling just looking at hard facts as far as numbers blizzard themselves put out.

i always believed that game companies include non active subscriptions among the active ones when giving a subscription rate to the public so it looks more than it actually is actively playing.... but yeah blizz has many millions of subs, cata sold like 3.5 millions in 1 day, it went up to 4.4 i thin as of now.... i know a lot of ppl that plays wow and dont have cataclysm (planning to get it ) one of my ex guild mates even had only the up to the burning crusade coz didnt have the money to buy the Xpacs along with the subscription..... many ppl are in those shoes as well, im pretty sure about that.... and that doesnt mean the wouldnt get cata so..... they might / might not get it

In China, WoW players pay for chunks of time. As of 2007, factoring in the buying power of currency, Chinese players were paying the equivalent of 25 cents per hour. WoW China players pay the equivalent of $15 a month for 60 hours of gameplay, which translates to roughly 2 hours a day. Aside from the ultra-casual, many WoW China players are paying more of their income than you are.

yeah but currency in china has a different value than dollar in US.... we pay 15 a month and they pay 15 for 2 hours... but they get 15 chinese bucks (forgot the name of their currency) easier than we get 15 dollars...... same thing comparing US to my country, something cost 10k peso in my country ,and the same thing in US cost the equivalent which is US$ 300, however in US u earn $300 in one week, and in my country you earn US$300 ( $10k peso) in one month

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by XiThRyL

I'm not even too convinced the 2012 events will end this behemoth, lol

No but seriously it does seem like a trend that posts like this show up close to competing MMOs launching. I myself play WoW and will be getting Rift at launch, however I will stay subbed to WoW. I don't see this game going anywhere anytime soon.

We know that even if people do leave to go on their ways in Telara or where ever, soon as we here a new content patch is rolling around, most people will migrate right back.

Hmmm, I don't know.

Of course, you're right in that WoW isn't going anywhere. But I'd be surprised if all the upcoming MMO's didn't cause a drop off in sub numbers in WoW for at least the 2011 period. Even if it'd be for each new MMO 3-6 months, then that would mean the majority of months that a lot of MMO gamers will play at least 1 of these new MMO's, and a considerable part of that number that will cancel their current sub for that time period, whether that'll be WoW, Aion, etc.

No they won't cancel, because  the vast majority will not abandon they characters and the game they played for years and years to play the exact same copy from scratch again.

This has been something a lot, I mean a lot of mmorpg.com members simply don't get.

Suppose you love to play chess, you play chess 4 hours a day for 5 years in a row. Then a new game comes along that plays like chess, but with slighlty different rules. Of course this new game will be "experimented" with for a few weeks, but people are clustered to playing WOW for a long time now.

Only that portion that is really really really tired of WOW is posting on mmorpg.com and hyping new fantasy games, but if - by now - you didn't see that those "new" copies will hardly go anywhere, you'll never see it.

It doesn't matter, because in the end the chess player will play chess again, since it is the classic one.

The huge number of WOW players simply assures that in the passing of time those copies really never had a chance to succeed in multi millions anyway. Rift will follow the road of AoC, Tr, War, Aion, ST, CO, DCO, ....

Polish or "good" or "fantastic" has notthing to do with it. The standard was set 6 years ago and that standard simply has the complete market in its hand.

You can cry about it, dream about, scream about it, hate the damned thing, but the copy will never replace chess.

I played wow since closed beta up till cataclysm, i quited.

Reason:

Community went from bad to worse ever since TBC

WOTLK baby's whining about evrything and nothing

Cataclysm fails to deliver what previous expansions deliverd......and thats fun.

Core class mechanics changed due to PVP balance, things ingame that has been like this for 5 years or longer just get changed all of a sudden.

Massive class balance ruining the game, in the name of Esport.....

Low level damage is nothing but 2 shotting

have around 6 level 85's got 1 character fully geared in pvp set, but cant be arsed to stand in 30 min queue's for 1 pvp game and get 35 honor.....when 1 piece costs around 2400 lol.

Wow had its glory and it will go downhill from here very very fast.

Ashame tough, as WoW had one of the best community's ever in an mmo back in 2004.

Originally posted by mastersomrat

First, I heard Blizzard lost over half it’s subscriber base bringing it somewhere in the 5.5 range.  Then, with Cata, I have many friends stating that their tired of the same old grind and have either canceled their subscriptions or are in the process of it.  Now if all this wasn’t unsettling enough, we have entire guilds that have pre-ordered Rift.

 

 

Does anyone know if Blizzard did in fact loss a good portion of their subs?  Anyone know if future WoW expansions will be anything else than level some more?  Any info helpful.

 It's not going to die, but it's heyday is definately over.

The community I'm part of plays many MMO's, WoW and EVE being the 2 most popular that we support, but since last week 10 WoW members have cancelled their subs, not to play Rift, but due to having very little to do in WoW, and when I mean little to do I'm talking about NEW things to do, not grind out another alt or repeat the same dungeon to grind out Justice points.

Cata was an OK expac, nothing amazing, I found the underwater zone annoying as hell and couldn't wait to get out of it, like may others in my guild, but it's just alot of the same, so those that had come back to see the expac have already gone once they hit max lvl, and the rest just do as they did before, grind grind grind.

There are some nice shiny MMO's coming out, but none will kill WoW, they may surpass it (Fingers crossed SWTOR is that title) but so long as Blizzard are happy with a certain revenue turnover then the game will remain live and supported, or even just live like Vanguard, it's just a darn shame Blizzard expax schedule is so bloody stingy, if they could up the pace in pumping out new content then perhaps they could remain top dog for many more years, I truly believe this is probably their last year of customer growth, it will probably platuea and then decline next year.

Originally posted by pragues

No they won't cancel, because  the vast majority will not abandon they characters and the game they played for years and years to play the exact same copy from scratch again.

Only that portion that is really really really tired of WOW is posting on mmorpg.com and hyping new fantasy games, but if - by now - you didn't see that those "new" copies will hardly go anywhere, you'll never see it.

Lol. Don't tell me you're one of those persons that really WANTS other MMO's to fail besides the one you favor, up to the point that you're gleeful when they don't succeed? I hope that isn't the case.

The huge number of WOW players simply assures that in the passing of time those copies really never had a chance to succeed in multi millions anyway. Rift will follow the road of AoC, Tr, War, Aion, ST, CO, DCO, ....

Polish or "good" or "fantastic" has notthing to do with it. The standard was set 6 years ago and that standard simply has the complete market in its hand.

You can cry about it, dream about, scream about it, hate the damned thing, but the copy will never replace chess.

Canceling/freezing your sub for a number of months isn't the same as canceling/wiping your chars, at least not in any MMO I've encountered. They're still there as soon as you resub again (unless someone hijacked your account).

As for how many WoW players there'll be and how many players in the other MMO's, we'll have to see in 2012. Those that said AoC and WAR would be humongous were wrong, as well who said that WoW 2 (CATA) would lead to 15+ million subs. It's all speculation, but I do find it amusing how hard (some) fanbois of a game, whether that's WoW, Rift, TERA, or whatever game it is feel the need to put 'their' game on an adulating pedestal while at the same time trash talking all other MMO's. Reminds me of soccer fans and hooligans sometimes, where you can have people that are foremostly fans of 1 club, instead of fans of soccer in general.

Me, i think it's good to have more diversity in the MMO genre up to the point that there could be serious competition for WoW, or to put it simply: 1 dominating MMO = bad, many high quality MMO's = good

So here's to 2011 and 2012 and all the wonderful new MMO's it brings

Originally posted by jpnz

The flaw in this logic is that for many players, WoW is their first MMO and last.

'only 30% go beyond level 10' -Blizz CEO

So where does the other 70% go? It certainly does not say in the MMO genre as the MMO market is not 36 Million+ players.

 

People try their first MMO WoW (cause MMO = WOW right now to the general public) and either play that or leave the genre completely, at least the vast majority does.

Hmm, true, that'll apply to a number of WoW players, but overall I think there are more MMO gamers and not just only WoW players that have been introduced to the MMO genre as can be seen with launches for WAR, AoC, Aion etc that had a lot more gamers playing it than there were MMO gamers who played the old MMO's. So yes, for a number of people WoW will be their 1st and last MMO, but not for all, for a lot of MMO gamers it was simply their 1st MMO.

It's very convenient for Activision to measure WoWs sub count just after the release of Cataclysm. Countless of ex-WoW players have bought the box and hope it has changed for better.

I'd so much like to know what the sub figures are now compared to those in early december last year.

Your mistaken if you think WoW has halved its subscription numbers. Personally i think you'd be a fool to leave WoW for Rift but thats just my opinion. Cataclysm has proved to be a real challenge for Raiders which has made it all the more worthwhile. It took Paragon (the best guild in WoW) 6 weeks to clear all of the Tier 1 content that is available today. In TBC it took the fastest guild 2 weeks, Wrath took 40 odd hours! People moaned and whined at how easy wrath was and Blizzard has listened. Has it effected the game for better or worse? for me it has, having everyone killing Lich King despite being a dribbler was just ridiculous.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by Omali

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by gorro187

In all honesty think about this. Blizzard claims to have 12 million active subs? Yet they talk about the record 4.4 million sold copies of cataclysm? What about the 7.6 million other "active" subs? Clearly by blizzards own admission in a round about way they have not bought cataclysm? Somethings not right there. Not trolling just looking at hard facts as far as numbers blizzard themselves put out.

i always believed that game companies include non active subscriptions among the active ones when giving a subscription rate to the public so it looks more than it actually is actively playing.... but yeah blizz has many millions of subs, cata sold like 3.5 millions in 1 day, it went up to 4.4 i thin as of now.... i know a lot of ppl that plays wow and dont have cataclysm (planning to get it ) one of my ex guild mates even had only the up to the burning crusade coz didnt have the money to buy the Xpacs along with the subscription..... many ppl are in those shoes as well, im pretty sure about that.... and that doesnt mean the wouldnt get cata so..... they might / might not get it

In China, WoW players pay for chunks of time. As of 2007, factoring in the buying power of currency, Chinese players were paying the equivalent of 25 cents per hour. WoW China players pay the equivalent of $15 a month for 60 hours of gameplay, which translates to roughly 2 hours a day. Aside from the ultra-casual, many WoW China players are paying more of their income than you are.

yeah but currency in china has a different value than dollar in US.... we pay 15 a month and they pay 15 for 2 hours... but they get 15 chinese bucks (forgot the name of their currency) easier than we get 15 dollars...... same thing comparing US to my country, something cost 10k peso in my country ,and the same thing in US cost the equivalent which is US$ 300, however in US u earn $300 in one week, and in my country you earn US$300 ( $10k peso) in one month

He said that the Chinese are paying the EQUIVALENT of 25 cents per hour and that they end up paying more than $15 dollars per month if they play more than 60 hours per month. Your reply makes no sense as his figures are in dollars and not the Chinese's currency which is the yuan. He is not talking about 15 yuan he's talking about $15 dollars. 

I am from the UK but I am pretty sure people in the US earn more than $300 dollars per week whereas in China they have really low salaries maybe along the lines of 100-300 dollars per month!

Originally posted by gorro187

In all honesty think about this. Blizzard claims to have 12 million active subs? Yet they talk about the record 4.4 million sold copies of cataclysm? What about the 7.6 million other "active" subs?

China. China is 1 expansion behind. It explains it perfectly.

Some people really have no clue.

When you talk about WOW. You don't talk about the next MMORPG being launched next week with the other ones to follow next month.

You talk about a game that had a $ 1.425.000.000 dollar revenue in 2010. The rest of our western bunch follows at $ 10-25 million, with an exception of EVE around 50 millio dollars.

You don't talk about competition, you talk about "the" standard and some weekly/monthly new launch that wants to eat from its table.

As for offering other forms than the "standard", those other are not even alternatives: they play in the exact same way, which is really very sad instead of "exciting".

I think it's sadder to not welcome and want diversity in the MMORPG genre: for those that like the themepark model but want something new and/or slightly different than the themepark MMO's they've been playing there'll be Rift, TERA, SWTOR.

For those that crave for sandbox MMO's there'll be Xsyon as pure sandbox and Archeage and World of Darkness as AAA sandbox titles.

For those that crave MMORPG's that are different than the current batch of MMO's, there'll be MMO's like GW2, Firefall and TSW.

Sure, people can stick with WoW, LotrO, EVE or whatever MMO they're happy with playing all they want.

But as said, diversity and variety = a good thing.

^^ agreed. but it must have quality people.

So many mmo's that came out die within months of release....

From the 100 mmo's that came out the last decade only a few where succesfull.

That tells something about the quality of mmo's, i would never ever pay for a mmo that doesnt cut it or aint fun playing.

My personal wish list for a top notch mmo:

Awesome looking chars and char creation

Fun to play

enough end game contend

Balanced PVP

Good graphics

Nice looking armor kits

and a very good community

these are just a simple wish list for a good mmo. unlucky for me only 3 live up to that

GW - WoW - Aion and they all have major let down after many many hours of gameplay :(

GW and WoW wher for me the most fun ever i had in any mmo ever created, but they all happend in the early days of those mmo's the older the games became the less fun i had playing it.

Its very hard to sadisfy each mmo player, its close to imposible, but as long as the thick line if fun to walk iam there :)

Wake me up when GW2 is release :P

WoW is still the Giant.I havn't played in a couple years , but I still read up on it.And most of my old guild is still playing from the Vanilla days.They may take breaks sometimes but they always go back.

With that being said.I just read recently that wow has over 12.5 million subs as of last month,And that they could break there own record for the most subs they have ever had at one time, this year.Not only do I think that WoW's hey day isn't over.But I think that it will maintain numbers like this for years upon years to come.People speculate and in some cases may wish that WoW wasn't the King MMO anymore.But It is , and as long as Blizzard wants it to reign supreme it probably will.Its hard for any game to compete with Blizzard when they keep an active staff of over 5000 employee's just to keep WoW Running.They time there content releases to stretch as far inbetween as they think is healthy for there game.As well as to coincide with other releases of competitor's.But if they had too I bet they have the resources and the money to Pop out expacs and updates so fast they Could easily squash any worries they may have before it even happens.

Not a big WoW fan like I once was.But its rediculous to even think that there is a game in sight that will dethrone or make any kind of significant dent in WoW's Sub base.It hasn't happened yet and it may not happen until Blizz decides to let it happen.GW2 will have alot of players almost immediately .But being B2P most people who play that will probably still keep there WoW subs active.So it may get the numbers way up there.But Probably not at the expense of WoW.More likely at the expense of alot of the smaller games out there though.There is no other game that I would persenolly expect to make a dent in the market.Theres games that will be highly successful , like SWToR, maybe Rift ( blah), and a few others .But there impact on WoW will be minimal if any impact at all.Just my opinion, but based on History its the likely scenario.

I fall into this category myself. I've played for quite a few years and the game has run its course with me I think. I was excited as hell for Cata but when it came out I wasn't very impressed. The only thing that truly felt new to me was the guild achievements and leveling, everything else just felt old and stagnant. Every expansion uses the same blueprint and reused ideas so even though the content was new it didn't feel new. My character has over 9k achievements, I raided all through WoTLK and got most of the HMs done and when I dinged 85 I was staring at just another two years or raiding and BG/arena queueing again? I dunno it is just old, I feel like I been there done that.

I had cancelled my account after dinging 85, and usually when I cancel my account I come back a couple weeks later refreshed and enjoying the game all over again. I came back again after about a month because I got the itch, but this time it didn't even take two weeks for me to be bored as hell again and cancel my account. The expansion just doesn't feel new to me. No hard feelings though it was good while it lasted I just need something new.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by mastersomrat

First, I heard Blizzard lost over half it’s subscriber base bringing it somewhere in the 5.5 range.  Then, with Cata, I have many friends stating that their tired of the same old grind and have either canceled their subscriptions or are in the process of it.  Now if all this wasn’t unsettling enough, we have entire guilds that have pre-ordered Rift.

 

 

Does anyone know if Blizzard did in fact loss a good portion of their subs?  Anyone know if future WoW expansions will be anything else than level some more?  Any info helpful.

it might be true that many people cancelled WoW sub, but thats very different than blizz losing half subscriptions lol which i highly doubt....

Blizzard lost 8 million of their subs in China for an entire year. Of course Blizzard said nothing but it was largely reported.

I really hope that WoW sticks together because otherwise too many of it's player base would end up in Rift. Rift forum has turned into crap already, just hoping that most of those trolls won't be in game after beta...

Originally posted by Timukas

I really hope that WoW sticks together because otherwise too many of it's player base would end up in Rift. Rift forum has turned into crap already, just hoping that most of those trolls won't be in game after beta...

If a company just makes a game that isn't a WoW clone, or even has the slightest semblance of difficulty, it'll be safe from WoW players forevermore.