Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

What about you both read the gamespot version?

 ...Muzyka then chimed in, saying that BioWare does, in fact, have ample experience in the field of games-as-service, given many team members' backgrounds with Mythic Entertainment. For BioWare, he said, it's about collaboration, as well as finding the best and the brightest and building off of their communal experience."

Are you trying to defuse the situation, or encite a riot?

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

Originally posted by slpr

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

I know it isn't news.  I also know it isn't "good news."  lolmythic.  Warhammer Online = 2 US servers now.  GG.

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

I know it isn't news.  I also know it isn't "good news."  lolmythic.  Warhammer Online = 2 US servers now.  GG.

Correct me if i'm mistaken wasn't the pvp the best part of their games? DAOC/warhammer? it was the set up of the zones and the pve that suffered.

Mythic is working on the pvp, which they are known for doing very well.  Least last i recalled.

Originally posted by whilan

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

I know it isn't news.  I also know it isn't "good news."  lolmythic.  Warhammer Online = 2 US servers now.  GG.

Correct me if i'm mistaken wasn't the pvp the best part of their games? DAOC/warhammer? it was the set up of the zones and the pve that suffered.

Mythic is working on the pvp, which they are known for doing very well.  Least last i recalled.

Mythic did do a good job with DAoC.  That was a long time ago.  Warhammer Online, however, was just a few years ago.  They did PvP right?  I'm sorry, but everything was terribly imbalanced, and the only way to succeed was zerg vs zerg clusterf**ks.  The reason DAoC was so fun and successful was the 3 faction edge, which you don't find often in MMOs nowadays.  It lead to great things like Darkness Falls, the tug-of-war dungeon in DAoC.  But Mythic is so deluded and unaware, they actually thought "Tomb of the Vulture Lord" would reignite that success.  Without three sides, one side floods into the zone and the other side is forced to grind PvE until they get access, ad nauseum.  The Mythic team, whether you want to believe it or not, does not have very sound ideas.

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by whilan

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

I know it isn't news.  I also know it isn't "good news."  lolmythic.  Warhammer Online = 2 US servers now.  GG.

Correct me if i'm mistaken wasn't the pvp the best part of their games? DAOC/warhammer? it was the set up of the zones and the pve that suffered.

Mythic is working on the pvp, which they are known for doing very well.  Least last i recalled.

Mythic did do a good job with DAoC.  That was a long time ago.  Warhammer Online, however, was just a few years ago.  They did PvP right?  I'm sorry, but everything was terribly imbalanced, and the only way to succeed was zerg vs zerg clusterf**ks.  The reason DAoC was so fun and successful was the 3 faction edge, which you don't find often in MMOs nowadays.  It lead to great things like Darkness Falls, the tug-of-war dungeon in DAoC.  But Mythic is so deluded and unaware, they actually thought "Tomb of the Vulture Lord" would reignite that success.  Without three sides, one side floods into the zone and the other side is forced to grind PvE until they get access, ad nauseum.  The Mythic team, whether you want to believe it or not, does not have very sound ideas.

Whatever you say, it's just your opinion. For me PvP in warhammer was good. And also you're assuming they will make bad PvP for SWTOR and also the leaders in SWTOR are not the same of mythic's.

Originally posted by slpr

Whatever you say, it's just your opinion. For me PvP in warhammer was good. And also you're assuming they will make bad PvP for SWTOR and also the leaders in SWTOR are not the same of mythic's.

You're assuming they will make good PvP for SWTOR, so is what I'm doing any worse than what you are doing?  And actually, Rob Denton still calls the shots for a lot of the Mythic staff, and the other heads of BioWare Austin are from SWG/Ultima Online which this game is obviously not following in the footsteps of.

Tell me, what was so great about the PvP in Warhammer?  The frustration of getting 2 shotted by a Bright Wizard?  The OP disorient that was the Marauder's bread and butter nerfed off the bat, leaving the class virtually unplayable for over a year?  The fact that, in assault stance, armor debuffs were doubled on Shadow Warriors (worst class ever.)  Or did you simply like taking forts in a 3 fps slideshow battle of luck and OMGAOEEVERYWHERE?  The game was a travesty, and while it may have had a couple fun moment here and there, the game as a whole failed on multiple levels, and Mythic should shoulder the blame.

"PvP" is not as cut and dry as you make it seem to be.  One of the biggest parts, dare I say "make it or break it", is balance, and if that is something Mythic is in charge of, do NOT expect good things.

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

Whatever you say, it's just your opinion. For me PvP in warhammer was good. And also you're assuming they will make bad PvP for SWTOR and also the leaders in SWTOR are not the same of mythic's.

You're assuming they will make good PvP for SWTOR, so is what I'm doing any worse than what you are doing?  And actually, Rob Denton still calls the shots for a lot of the Mythic staff, and the other heads of BioWare Austin are from SWG/Ultima Online which this game is obviously not following in the footsteps of.

 

Tell me, what was so great about the PvP in Warhammer?  The frustration of getting 2 shotted by a Bright Wizard?  The OP disorient that was the Marauder's bread and butter nerfed off the bat, leaving the class virtually unplayable for over a year?  The fact that, in assault stance, armor debuffs were doubled on Shadow Warriors (worst class ever.)  Or did you simply like taking forts in a 3 fps slideshow battle of luck and OMGAOEEVERYWHERE?  The game was a travesty, and while it may have had a couple fun moment here and there, the game as a whole failed on multiple levels, and Mythic should shoulder the blame.

 

"PvP" is not as cut and dry as you make it seem to be.  One of the biggest parts, dare I say "make it or break it", is balance, and if that is something Mythic is in charge of, do NOT expect good things.

Like i said, whatever you say. I told you already that the people leading the project are not from mythic, most of them are from bioware so believe whatever you want. And just because someone didn't do their best job in a previous project, that doesn't mean they are incompetent and not capable of doing something great in other projects.

What's so great in warhammer pvp? easy, it was fun... alot better than WoW for example. It was imbalanced and broken at some points? sure, but thats because the game was incomplete when release. Mythic lacked a good leader and EA also did a mistake, which till now they seem to have learned from it.

Originally posted by Elidien

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Elidien

This means they are going for casual and not hardcore.

We've known that for over a year now. Where have you been?

This means its a themepark and not a sandbox.

Ditto.

This means TOR will be like WOW and not like SWG.

Maybe more like WOW than SWG, but that's fine by me.And again, we've know for over a year now that this wasn't SWG 2. SWG is still around. Go play it and stop whining on these forums.

It means they want millions of subs and not a niche game.

And this is bad how?

 It means that if you like WOW, you will like TOR.

TOR is nothing like WOW. Constantly saying it is won't make it so.

it means that revenue matters the most.

See point from above. You must be under the mistaken impression that companies spend all that money making games for charity.

Getting more specfic at this point is a waste of time.

You already wasted our time with your ranting. Why stop now?

Funny how you TOR fanbois jump all over me when all I did was interpret the article for those that did not understand it.

Did I say anything was bad or good? No.

Did I say I preferred one over another? No.

Did I offer any opinion as to he game outside of the interpretation of the article? No.

I offered an interpretation of the article and quote as it relates to what I understand it to mean. You guys are so worried about the game and so quick to judge and defend it while attacking anyone that offers a counter opinion that you don't really read what is said.

 It read to me like the same type of whining that I've been seeing about this game for the last year so forgive me if that wasn't your intention. It's easy to misinterpret on a message board. My bad.

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Elidien

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Elidien

This means they are going for casual and not hardcore.

We've known that for over a year now. Where have you been?

This means its a themepark and not a sandbox.

Ditto.

This means TOR will be like WOW and not like SWG.

Maybe more like WOW than SWG, but that's fine by me.And again, we've know for over a year now that this wasn't SWG 2. SWG is still around. Go play it and stop whining on these forums.

It means they want millions of subs and not a niche game.

And this is bad how?

 It means that if you like WOW, you will like TOR.

TOR is nothing like WOW. Constantly saying it is won't make it so.

it means that revenue matters the most.

See point from above. You must be under the mistaken impression that companies spend all that money making games for charity.

Getting more specfic at this point is a waste of time.

You already wasted our time with your ranting. Why stop now?

Funny how you TOR fanbois jump all over me when all I did was interpret the article for those that did not understand it.

Did I say anything was bad or good? No.

Did I say I preferred one over another? No.

Did I offer any opinion as to he game outside of the interpretation of the article? No.

I offered an interpretation of the article and quote as it relates to what I understand it to mean. You guys are so worried about the game and so quick to judge and defend it while attacking anyone that offers a counter opinion that you don't really read what is said.

 It read to me like the same type of whining that I've been seeing about this game for the last year so forgive me if that wasn't your intention. It's easy to misinterpret on a message board. My bad.

No worries. :) I understand where you are coming from (I am going through the same thing with Rift). I just think that article confirms some of the stuff we have speculated on and its up to each individual to decide if that's good or bad for them personally. I am looking forward to TOR and most likely will play. My concerns are well beyond it being WOW-like but that's another story for another thread. :)

If you think TOR looks like WoW, I think its safe to say you would think the skeleton of a monkey and a baby would be the same. Im glad you guys dont have important jobs that impact the lives of others, please tell me  the only politics youre involved in is on these forums...

Originally posted by whilan

Originally posted by laikacosmo

Originally posted by slpr

It isn't news. We've known for ages now that the guys from mythic were working on the PvP part of the game.

I know it isn't news.  I also know it isn't "good news."  lolmythic.  Warhammer Online = 2 US servers now.  GG.

Correct me if i'm mistaken wasn't the pvp the best part of their games? DAOC/warhammer? it was the set up of the zones and the pve that suffered.

Mythic is working on the pvp, which they are known for doing very well.  Least last i recalled.

Mark Jacobs fired the guy that was responsible for the good RvR in DaoC many years ago. Around the time they were planning the second expansion, this dev wanted to make tons of improvements to RvR, but was shot down and we got EQ style raiding with the Trials of Atlantis instead. He complained that it would ruin the game, and he was canned within a week. Several of the original DaoC devs left shortly after this, replaced by Mark Jacobs with new talent that was enthusiastic about the new direction DaoC had taken.

In short: the people that made DaoC RvR fun are long gone and have been for years. It's no wonder Warhammer failed. So if Mythic is working on the PvP, don't get too excited.

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Comnitus

Originally posted by Benthon

Originally posted by romanator0

Originally posted by Gajari

You can't expect them to throw away everything that has been learned from WoW and try for something ENTIRELY different... because then you end up with FFXIV.

There is nothing wrong with being entirely different if you can make it work. SE's problem was they just can't seem to make good games.

 This.

The only ones to make something entirely different "work" was CCP. EIGHT YEARS AGO. And don't say no one has tried since then; we've gotten everything from Darkfall (and Mortal Online) to LEGO Universe in that timespan.

BioWare: Yes, let's bank a $150 million dollar project on being "entirely different."

Like I said, if you have great people working on your game and the time and confidence to do it, then you can do it if you can make everything work.

READ THIS LIST BEFORE you make comments about WoW inventing crap:

Originally posted by Lawlmonster

"Every MMO that comes out, I play and look at it. And if they break any of the WoW rules, in my book that's pretty dumb."

 

I feel kinda sick just looking at that quote. What's dumb is reproducing the same game with a different skin, ad nauseam.

It is all about context, they aren't following WoW in any way, but they are admiring the game for what it acheived financially with respect to subs and are considerate.

Biowares MMO will be their own game and nothing more , and this can be seen in the way they have professionally dealt with the game from day one. As long as people don't get carried away with hype and are ready to enjoy the experience Bioware/Lucas Arts are about to provide it will be fun all around.

And if it isn't don't play.

I really don't know why some of you are being so offended by this comment. I think what MMORPG players are looking for IS WoW..but done the way they want it to be done. 

Why do I think this way?

Because there are plenty of games out their that break the mold, and try to do things differently, only to be shot down by this same community that just despises anything that is "World of Warcraft". 

For example, EVE Online is about as different as one can get from WoW, and despite the fact that the game is fairly successfull, it's subscription base is still miniscule when compared to WoW. 

Or how about Age of Conan, that used a very different combat system, as well as a much more mature tone and presentation, yet still has no significant following. 

No, no...the MMORPG community doesn't really want something different. When something "different" comes out, instead of playing and enjoying the game, they will nitpick the game to death, and feel "slapped in the face", because the game isn't as polished as say...World of Warcraft, a game that has been out for almost 7 years. 

Fact is, there will NEVER be another big MMO like WoW...because people will either hate it for being a "wow clone", or hate it because it's not. 

Originally posted by testament1

I really don't know why some of you are being so offended by this comment. I think what MMORPG players are looking for IS WoW..but done the way they want it to be done. 

Why do I think this way?

Because there are plenty of games out their that break the mold, and try to do things differently, only to be shot down by this same community that just despises anything that is "World of Warcraft". 

For example, EVE Online is about as different as one can get from WoW, and despite the fact that the game is fairly successfull, it's subscription base is still miniscule when compared to WoW. 

Or how about Age of Conan, that used a very different combat system, as well as a much more mature tone and presentation, yet still has no significant following. 

No, no...the MMORPG community doesn't really want something different. When something "different" comes out, instead of playing and enjoying the game, they will nitpick the game to death, and feel "slapped in the face", because the game isn't as polished as say...World of Warcraft, a game that has been out for almost 7 years. 

Fact is, there will NEVER be another big MMO like WoW...because people will either hate it for being a "wow clone", or hate it because it's not. 

As to the EvE example not a lot MMO have more subs than EvE either, there's WoW then others so you can't really compare.

AoC was rushed out into production half finished. Would the game be as polished as WoW when it launched it would have over a milion players by now. And for the record, while the game has improved the UI still sucks.

It the player community doesn't want something different than WoW can you explain to me why there are so many posts from people saying they are staying away from Rift as it's a WoW clone?

The next big MMO will be GW2 because it will be a fairly polished and FUN MMO and it will be mostly F2P then there will be Titan, for obvious reasons.

The people that are saying that are Contrarians....they only dislike WoW because it's the popular, "in" thing...that's all. 

And what's a "wow clone" exactly? Is a Chevy a "Ford Clone" because it has a sterring wheel and four wheels? The term "wow clone" is being thrown around so much that I can't even take the term seriously. 

Based on what I've read about SW:TOR the past couple days, they have completely lost me. The massively article was just icing on the cake. The class/race restrictions are going to have a larger impact on hurting the game than I think people realize. This is Star Wars. The lore is vast. Their answer is to say that only X races can be X classes, completely goes against Star Wars as a whole.

Now to see that they pretty much admit it's a WoW clone? Yikes! No thanks.

Originally posted by Charisi

Based on what I've read about SW:TOR the past couple days, they have completely lost me. The massively article was just icing on the cake. The class/race restrictions are going to have a larger impact on hurting the game than I think people realize. This is Star Wars. The lore is vast. Their answer is to say that only X races can be X classes, completely goes against Star Wars as a whole.

Now to see that they pretty much admit it's a WoW clone? Yikes! No thanks.

Probably better to quit now if you were expecting a Star Wars sandbox or a Star Wars online simulator. It will be a theme park MMO. Personally I don't have any problems with that, as long as the mechanics feel fun.

Originally posted by Normike

Originally posted by Charisi

Based on what I've read about SW:TOR the past couple days, they have completely lost me. The massively article was just icing on the cake. The class/race restrictions are going to have a larger impact on hurting the game than I think people realize. This is Star Wars. The lore is vast. Their answer is to say that only X races can be X classes, completely goes against Star Wars as a whole.

Now to see that they pretty much admit it's a WoW clone? Yikes! No thanks.

Probably better to quit now if you were expecting a Star Wars sandbox or a Star Wars online simulator. It will be a theme park MMO. Personally I don't have any problems with that, as long as the mechanics feel fun.

Hmm but if the Mechanics are the same as you have played before will it Really be fun in the long run? Battlegrounds, Fetch/kill quests... Two sides that are locked in conflict I cant see anything here that I havent played before..

Lets look at some recent big released games on the consol (because lets face it with the online Piracy PC games are dead) Rock star released Red dead redemption = Good move, There has never been a big budget western game and it feelt new and inovating even if it is based on the GTA franchise, with open world roams etc. BIOWARE gave us Mass effect 2 this is also in a genre of its own, so I would say it was a good move. When they decided to give out Street fighter again as a 2D fighter people dident think it would be a smash hit but it was.. RISK and inovation.. When Nintendo dicided to give out the Wii nobody in the industry thought they would have a chans LOL look at them now.. Inovation and risk pays off. Playing it safe sticking to what others do and Copy cat it dosent give you any Cash it has always resulted in failure. From game rippoffs to movie rippoffs the result is always the same MASSIVE FAIL!

So BioWare best get their act together or SWTOR will join AOC, CHampions online, Star trek online, WAR and all the other fail copy games of the half past decade...