I have to agree that, at this stage of MMORPGs, it's pretty hard to release either a truly innovative MMO or at least an MMO with truly innovative features. At least in the fantasy genre.

I can think of handfuls of Scifi MMOs released in the past few years that were highly innovative, they are just highly risky. EVE comes to mind, as does Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. NCSoft can go to hell, btw.

I agree with the fist argument that rifts are a bit different than War's PQs.

However, leveling up through questing, running dungeongs, pvping and exploring is in most MMOs today. Nothing special to brag about.

Originally posted by Blacknd

I have to agree that, at this stage of MMORPGs, it's pretty hard to release either a truly innovative MMO or at least an MMO with truly innovative features. At least in the fantasy genre.

I can think of handfuls of Scifi MMOs released in the past few years that were highly innovative, they are just highly risky. EVE comes to mind, as does Tabula Rasa and Auto Assault. NCSoft can go to hell, btw.

it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.

and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.

I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.

Originally posted by vesavius

it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.

and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.

I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.

Let's be fair, in general the MMORPG theme that seems to be running is that people appear to prefer polish over almost any other quality in a game.

Polish comes with money, and with time.  Time costs money, so it mostly boils down to money.  It is also easier to polish already refined features you're copying, because there's so little work to do.

Originality has the awesomeness of being original, but it has the drawbacks of being hard to fund, and more difficult to tune and polish.

By gettng a lot of money (Yay investors), not straying too far from the original formula (Yay not having to do so much work), and keeping it relatively small (Huge advantage of themepark over sandbox.  Both feel tiny if they're small, but in one it just allows you to get on the rides faster), Rift has been able to up the level of polish, which is what is needed to catch people's interest in the first place.

Whether it can stand up to the test of time isn't known by anybody yet, but surface impression and polish is exceedingly important for catching early subscriptions and maintaining them for at least a little while.

(FFXIV for example had a very shiny outer coat - the most superficial layer of first impressions, but was not polished as a product.  So it got subs but couldn't even maintain them for a tiny bit)

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by vesavius

it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.

and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.

I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.

Let's be fair, in general the MMORPG theme that seems to be running is that people appear to prefer polish over almost any other quality in a game.

Polish comes with money, and with time.  Time costs money, so it mostly boils down to money.  It is also easier to polish already refined features you're copying, because there's so little work to do.

Originality has the awesomeness of being original, but it has the drawbacks of being hard to fund, and more difficult to tune and polish.

By gettng a lot of money (Yay investors), not straying too far from the original formula (Yay not having to do so much work), and keeping it relatively small (Huge advantage of themepark over sandbox.  Both feel tiny if they're small, but in one it just allows you to get on the rides faster), Rift has been able to up the level of polish, which is what is needed to catch people's interest in the first place.

Whether it can stand up to the test of time isn't known by anybody yet, but surface impression and polish is exceedingly important for catching early subscriptions and maintaining them for at least a little while.

(FFXIV for example had a very shiny outer coat - the most superficial layer of first impressions, but was not polished as a product.  So it got subs but couldn't even maintain them for a tiny bit)

Have to agree with the red.

Originality is risky. Investors want to avoid mass amounts of risk if they can help it.

vesavius: When you can deliver a sound argument without coming off as condescending and insulting to an entire community, please do so.

If people don't flock to a game, it's not because they don't understand it or it scares them.. it's because the game doesn't look interesting or, in Xyson's case, hasn't been advertised. No need to take it personal if people don't hype a game you think is worthy of being hyped :P

Xyson isn't Fantasy. It doesn't fall into the criteria of "Innovative Fantasy MMORPG." It looks like a modern post-apoc sandbox, which in and of itself is innovative. I correct myself, it apparently considers itself fantasy.. I guess that's due to the lack of guns (which all disappeared) and forced use of melee weaponry.

Hello everyone.

I think when people use the term "Clone" they are completely wrong.

Baed on the term close, the two/three games ahd to be EXACTLY the same. That's what clone means.

Like it or not, WoW WAR and The Rift are not exactly the same. Similar yes, but not the same.

I'm living proof of that. About WoW, did a couple of trials and never subscribed to that game. Didn't like it not even one bit. I played War for a while and enjoyed to a certain extend.

And I played the Rift whihc was quiet entertaining. They picked up the best of those games and put it in one. Smart maybe.

To be honest I hope The Rift does well. The industry needs successful game to keep thriving. I might buy the game.

Originally posted by Meowhead

"... and the idea of players each only being able to see part of the same world."

If there's a game that uses these same systems, please point me at that game, as I am debating whether I want to sue them for reading my name, or subscribe to their game so I can play an idea I've been thinking of for a long time. :)

Dark Age of Camelot.

Originally posted by slipcarb

Originally posted by Meowhead

"... and the idea of players each only being able to see part of the same world."

If there's a game that uses these same systems, please point me at that game, as I am debating whether I want to sue them for reading my name, or subscribe to their game so I can play an idea I've been thinking of for a long time. :)

Dark Age of Camelot.

Sorry, not quite what I meant.  Pretty obvious you didn't read the insane wall of text that was my linked post, haha.

In Dark Age of Camelot, some people live over here, some people live over there, and third faction lives in place number three, and they meet in the middle.

In the game I designed, everybody lives in the same place, just people see it differently.  Four different people can see the same enemy, and all see it differently, having a different grasp on what its powers and weaknesses are.  I mean literally different, with different graphics rendered and everything.

There is also a Tanking 101 guide here if anyone is interested: http://www.tanktelara.com/blog/2011/2/9/tanking-101-meat-shields-in-telara.html

Originally posted by allinan

Originally posted by Cannyone

When I read this...  "The key question to ask yourself when you play RIFT is this: Are you doing the same things you have done in other MMOs, or has Trion changed the way you see and interact with virtual worlds in an MMO?"  My answer was Yes, now that Trion has changed the Racials the way they have, I am doing the same things I've done in other MMOs.  And closer inspection does nothing to dispell this impression.  That is to say: If I want to roll a Mage, then I absolutely will roll an Eth, and no other race.  Because I want every advantage possible, no matter how small.  See the previous racials may have had imbalances, but they were far more flexible. They didn't promote a narrow view of what roles a particular race might fill.

This is a clear example of Trion NOT choosing wisely when making a decision to change something.  And if they will do it for this, then who knows what they will do next!  My take is that this was done to appease a vocal minority on their forums.  But if we are honest with ourselves we realize that Players are far too biased, capricous, and self centered, to make judgement calls of this type.  And once Trion goes down this road it will be nothing but trouble.  And IMO Rift will then be nothing but a WoWhammer clone.

LOL, you said clone...geesh.

The point I was trying to make is that IF Trion Worlds behaves the way Blizzard, and Mythic, have behaved... Then eventually Rift will end up being so much like those other games that it might as well be a strait up "clone", with slightly different graphics. 

Originally posted by tkrahling

There is also a Tanking 101 guide here if anyone is interested: http://www.tanktelara.com/blog/2011/2/9/tanking-101-meat-shields-in-telara.html

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by vesavius

it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.

and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.

I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.

Let's be fair, in general the MMORPG theme that seems to be running is that people appear to prefer polish over almost any other quality in a game.

It's not one or the other, both are achievable in the same game at the same time.

Trion's trick has been to convince their fans that it has to be one or the other.

In so doing they are promoting a game on the basis of 'it works', and that just isnt enough on it's own to make we want to buy it. I just think we should be asking for more then boring derivative cut'n'paste thinking in games that feel that they have been designed by accountants.

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by vesavius

it might be near future, but it's low tech... but Xyson is doing exactly what you say is hard.

and yet few seem to support it.. prefering the lazy uninspired cut'n'paste of Rift.

I guess too gamers prefer hyped up grey porridge like WoWhammer.... anything too different scares and confuses them.

Let's be fair, in general the MMORPG theme that seems to be running is that people appear to prefer polish over almost any other quality in a game.

 

It's not one or the other, both are achievable in the same game at the same time.

Trion's trick has been to convince their fans that it has to be one or the other.

In so doing they are promoting a game on the basis of 'it works', and that just isnt enough on it's own to make we want to buy it. I just think we should be asking for more then boring derivative cut'n'paste thinking in games that feel that they have been designed by accountants.

I have to agree with this. If the best thing a game can say about itself is that "it works" then the devs really need to try harder next time they decide to make a game. Having a game "that works" should be a given. If developers made a game and it doesn't work then they need to try again. If, for some reason the can't make a game that works no matter what, then they should go back to school and learn how. It is better to try and be different and fail than to succeed by just making a game "that works".

It's not the end of the world to admit that Rift is an almost wholesale rip-off of Warhammer Online. It's a good game, but just accept that it does nothing new, and admit that you just want to play another rehashed game with new scenery. There's nothing wrong with that. If you like it, then that's all that matters. Trying to deny the obvious though... well, it makes you look silly.

Originally posted by allinan

Originally posted by Netspook

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by bastionix

Rift plays exactly like Warhammer and WoW.

UI, Global cooldown, Quests, Abilities, Soul System - WoW specs, Warhammer publ quests - Rifts, same professions as WoW, similar death penalty as WoW, ghost run to corpse, no pulling classes, similar dungeons, similar icons for abilities even.

Lying is not going to help Rift, bad site and bad writer who tries to deceive players. Maybe Trion employee? I wonder.

When you click on the name of the author in that article (or go here) you'll see the list of articles that she has written, which is quite an extensive one regarding a diversity of topics.

 

While I don't agree with everything she writes, accusing someone of being a shill or Trion employee just because people disagree with her viewpoint goes too far. Come on people, let's be reasonable in our discussions, shall we? We can (or should be able to) just recognize and talk about viewpoints we don't agree with without resorting to belittling others just because we don't like their viewpoint, now, can we?

There'll always be similarities and differences between MMORPG's, some people just tend to see/focus on the resemblances while others tend to see/focus on the differences.

 

You are overreacting. Speculating isn't accusing. And I agree with bastionix, it sure could look like there was a hidden agenda there.

...there is, world domination and mind control.  DON'T answer the door.

GIVE HIM THE STICK...DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!

Like it or not this game (to me) is essentially WoW/WAR/EQ2 rolled into one. Having said that however, I find, for me, it takes the more interesting parts of these games and mashes them together. Instead of taking some of the good with the bad and subbing to all 3 games I'm getting what I like out of them in this 1 game. Not to mention the Saboteur class has become my most favorite class in the game. Don't really care if it is a clone, I'm having a blast in it.

Originally posted by calibek

Not to mention the Saboteur class has become my most favorite class in the game. Don't really care if it is a clone, I'm having a blast in it.

You got the saboteur working? I tried it, but it felt too clunky for me in combat. I just went with other souls.

As for the whole WoWHammer thing, man, can't people just see the basest, most important things: if it's fun, then the rest doesn't matter and is just rationalisation.

Some people have fun in Rift, what's wrong with that?

Other people need more or something entirely different to have fun in their MMO. Ok, no problem too, just go for another MMO around.

That's it. If you have fun, you stick around with a game, if not, you look what else is around that's more to your taste.

Fun is the key word, and that's different for everyone.

Originally posted by TsukieU

 

GIVE HIM THE STICK...DON'T GIVE HIM THE STICK!

WoW is just a clone of the games before it, and even of games that came after it. You think anything in WoW is original? They got their character models from Warhammer. They got their mmo from EQ/Meridian 59/UO/etc. Since then, they've taken ideas from other games and incorporated them into their game, just as other games have done the same.

As they say, there hasn't been an original thought since God created the universe. The question is, which clone do you like best?

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by calibek

Not to mention the Saboteur class has become my most favorite class in the game. Don't really care if it is a clone, I'm having a blast in it.

You got the saboteur working? I tried it, but it felt too clunky for me in combat. I just went with other souls.

 

As for the whole WoWHammer thing, man, can't people just see the basest, most important things: if it's fun, then the rest doesn't matter and is just rationalisation.

Some people have fun in Rift, what's wrong with that?

Other people need more or something entirely different to have fun in their MMO. Ok, no problem too, just go for another MMO around.

That's it. If you have fun, you stick around with a game, if not, you look what else is around that's more to your taste.

Fun is the key word, and that's different for everyone.

 If you've ever played the Traps class in City of Villians it plays like that...It requires some setup time and a good area to place things. When you place all 3 points in Silent Setup (skill that does not add threat when attaching charges) you can make quick work of some enemies with charge placement and bombing...I plan on going with that and marksman for the speed increaing shot and rift stalker for the defensive abilities and movements...but I digress

I had a ton of fun in the beta and thought it was well put together...but I still think it is like all the other games before it.But like i said, for me, it takes all the fun parts of those games and puts them together which ok in my book...as long as I'm enjoying myself.